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As we all know, by the mid '-70s networks had trouble clearing the 4 p.m. show in many parts of the country. It's been reported shows like "Money Maze" were only seen in half the country, and "Tattletales" was seen on a one-day tape-delay in many areas.
When Goodson brought back "Price is Right" in 1972, CBS originally wanted it for its 10 a.m. kickoff show, but Goodson balked, stating that he didn't want his prize revival to be victims of affiliate clearances, so it got scheduled for 10:30 instead. Despite the slightly lower clearance level, it's been reported that "Joker's Wild" actually had decent ratings right off the bat.
I would think that the 4 p.m. slot would have been a bigger problem in the East than it would be for the Central and Pacific time zones, because it's in those areas the 4 p.m. show would air at 3. I'm wondering how much of a problem the 9 a.m. slot would have been in the Central time zone? If an affiliate were to schedule the 90-minute version of "Mike Douglas", for example, they'd wipe out three shows in the process (where it would only be one for the East). There was certainly more time in the afternoons for those talk shows to be aired in those cities. Was this a big problem in many Central-time zone cities?
In my area, we didn't lose any 10 a.m. show until 1976, when the NBC affiliate began airing a 90-minute version of "Dinah". 4 p.m. was a different story - both ABC affiliates aired that show on tape delay the next day, and only one NBC station out of two picked up "Somerset", the afternoon soap. The CBS stations were best to us, not tape-delaying the 4 p.m. show until around mid-1977.
Considering how many stations pre-empted these slots, and how long it went on for, it's surprising the networks still tried to program them as long as they did. I guess certain areas must have been better than others. Outside of the O&O's, were their very many stations that aired the entire daytime network schedules beyond the end of the '70s?
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Nov 12 2004, 09:21 AM\']
Considering how many stations pre-empted these slots, and how long it went on for, it's surprising the networks still tried to program them as long as they did. I guess certain areas must have been better than others. Outside of the O&O's, were their very many stations that aired the entire daytime network schedules beyond the end of the '70s?
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WCAU in Philly(CBS through 1995, now NBC) aired every CBS daytime program from late 70s-1995. The game shows CBS scheduled for 4PM aired earlier in the day, Tattetales 80s airing at Noon and later 9:30AM, Body Language and PYL86 airing at 9:30AM.
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Well here in Louisville, our NBC affiliate was very good to game shows. In the 80's, they aired virtually every network game show, save for Super Password, and they carried that for the first couple of years. They stopped when NBC would program a game show at the 10 AM time slot (Time Machine, Your Number's Up), but would pre-empt Different Strokes and The Facts of Life reruns to carry Go or Hot Potato.
Our ABC station (WLKY at the time, now CBS) would air Joker's Wild and Tic Tac Dough at the 10-11 am slots, with Trivia Trap/All Star Blitz and Feud to follow. They also carried the Edge of Night through its cancellation.
The CBS affiliate (WHAS then), OTOH, not so much, they pre-empted the 10-11 AM slot through Sept. 1984 for local programming, then they added Pyramid, but still dropped PYL for the Andy Griffith Show. Then eventually carried the last month of PYL at 10:30, right on time for Card Sharks to debut, and they NEVER cleared the 4pm show.
Tyshaun
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EDIT: I misread Ian's question, so a lot of this info is superfluous to an extent. It is interesting, though, that a market like Chicago in which the network affiliates are all O&Os had as many delays/moves as it did. Por ejemplo:
From 1982-1986, WBBM aired all of CBS' games on a one-day delay (even with later start times than the network airings [except for the noon ET offering, be it TT8x, BL or PYL]).
When HSq was moved from 10:30 ET to 1PM/4PM ET in early 1979, WMAQ took the 4PM ET feed. A few weeks later, when HSq was moved to 12:30 ET, WMAQ kept the show at 4PM ET/3PM CT (and moved their noon news to 11:30). This followed suit when P+ moved back to 12:30 ET (WMAQ aired it after the soaps; I believe it went back to a morning time slot the week of 8/4/80, when Dave Letterman's morning show got shortened and TEXAS premiered).
There was a time in the late 80s when WMAQ ran WoF at 3PM CT (maybe Mark J. recalls what WMAQ put in the 10AM CT slot instead at that time, because I sure don't). That experiment was short-lived, and it was back to its customary 10AM slot a few months later.
Doug -- and the countdown to 800 continues
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Nov 12 2004, 09:45 AM\'][quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Nov 12 2004, 09:21 AM\']
Considering how many stations pre-empted these slots, and how long it went on for, it's surprising the networks still tried to program them as long as they did. I guess certain areas must have been better than others. Outside of the O&O's, were their very many stations that aired the entire daytime network schedules beyond the end of the '70s?
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WCAU in Philly(CBS through 1995, now NBC) aired every CBS daytime program from late 70s-1995. The game shows CBS scheduled for 4PM aired earlier in the day, Tattetales 80s airing at Noon and later 9:30AM, Body Language and PYL86 airing at 9:30AM.
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Zach: the question was "outside of the O&Os." WCAU was a CBS O&O until it was bought by NBC.
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Nov 12 2004, 11:16 AM\']
There was a time in the late 80s when WMAQ ran WoF at 3PM CT (maybe Mark J. recalls what WMAQ put in the 10AM CT slot instead at that time, because I sure don't). That experiment was short-lived, and it was back to its customary 10AM slot a few months later.
Doug -- and the countdown to 800 continues
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AT some point, it did, but like you said, EXTREMELY short-lived, because WoF 9as I recalled it) was on at 10am.
-Dave
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WHP-21 (CBS) in Harrisburg typically was very good about carrying the 10am-11am hour up until about 1989 or 1990, when they started airing "Sally Jessy Raphael". Sometime in 1990, they started airing the CBS "Family Feud" at noon; they did that until it went off the air in 1993, and after it expanded to an hour, 21 aired the last half-hour of the show.
WYOU-22 (CBS) in Scranton aired the 10am-11am hour up until around 1991 or 1992; they then aired the block an hour earlier on a one-day delay.
WGAL-8 (NBC) in Lancaster wasn't very faithful to the 10am-11am block in the '80s. I can remember only one instance, when "Facts of Life" reruns aired at 10am, that they aired the whole hour. Sometime in the late '80s, they started airing talk shows and then their own local show, and never looked back. They also aired "The Challengers" at 10:30 a.m. when it was on.
WBRE-28 (NBC) was very good about the 10am-11am hour; the only exception I can think of is when they aired "Richard Simmons" at 10am in the early '80s..
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There was a time in the late 80s when WMAQ ran WoF at 3PM CT
KYW in Philadelphia also aired daytime WoF in the afternoons during the mid-to-late 80s...can someone fill in the time, and how long it lasted?
Chuck Donegan (The Curious "Chuckie Baby")
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[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Nov 12 2004, 06:53 PM\']
There was a time in the late 80s when WMAQ ran WoF at 3PM CT
KYW in Philadelphia also aired daytime WoF in the afternoons during the mid-to-late 80s...can someone fill in the time, and how long it lasted?
Chuck Donegan (The Curious "Chuckie Baby")
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Jan 7 1985-Mar 15 1985-3:30PM
Mar 18 1985-Sep 2 1988-4PM
Sep 5 1988-June 30 1989-3:30PM
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[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Nov 12 2004, 06:53 PM\']
There was a time in the late 80s when WMAQ ran WoF at 3PM CT
KYW in Philadelphia also aired daytime WoF in the afternoons during the mid-to-late 80s...can someone fill in the time, and how long it lasted?
Chuck Donegan (The Curious "Chuckie Baby")
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It was also an NBC O&O at the time (see David's reminder a couple posts up). KYW is still an O&O, but now it's under the CBS/Viacom umbrella.
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[quote name=\'mystery7\' date=\'Nov 12 2004, 09:50 PM\'][quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Nov 12 2004, 06:53 PM\']
There was a time in the late 80s when WMAQ ran WoF at 3PM CT
KYW in Philadelphia also aired daytime WoF in the afternoons during the mid-to-late 80s...can someone fill in the time, and how long it lasted?
Chuck Donegan (The Curious "Chuckie Baby")
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It was also an NBC O&O at the time (see David's reminder a couple posts up). KYW is still an O&O, but now it's under the CBS/Viacom umbrella.
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NBC O&O? Yes, from the late 50s until 1965, it was called WRCV. But in 1965, a court ruling forced Group W to swap its station in Cleveland with NBC's O&O in Philly. KYW Philadelphia was then a Group W-owned station which preempted some NBC daytime game shows in the late 70s and 80s, for more local shows like People Are Talking. They did play High Rollers in 1987. It aired right after Eyewitness News at noon. Group W merged with CBS in 1995.
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[quote name=\'mystery7\' date=\'Nov 12 2004, 09:50 PM\'][quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Nov 12 2004, 06:53 PM\']
There was a time in the late 80s when WMAQ ran WoF at 3PM CT
KYW in Philadelphia also aired daytime WoF in the afternoons during the mid-to-late 80s...can someone fill in the time, and how long it lasted?
Chuck Donegan (The Curious "Chuckie Baby")
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It was also an NBC O&O at the time (see David's reminder a couple posts up). KYW is still an O&O, but now it's under the CBS/Viacom umbrella.
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Shocked as I am to be saying this, tmq800 is right -- KYW was not an NBC O&O at the time. It was owned by Westinghouse; more information can be found here (http://\"http://www.fybush.com/site-031002.html\"), near the bottom of the page.
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WJW-TV, later WJKW-TV from 1977-85 and back to WJW-TV in 1985, the CBS affiliate in Cleveland until it became the first of the New World-owned stations to switch networks to FOX in 1994, had a warped daytime schedule of the Tiffany Network's programs during the middle 1970s.
They ran Match Game '7x at 9am followed by Tattletales. Then they rolled the proscribed network schedule until 3pm, when they presented reruns of Marcus Welby, M.D. followed at 4:00 by the All In The Family repeat that CBS played at three.
Robert Young and his stethoscope were moved to 9am in the spring of 1977 to make way for Tattletales (the network 4pm show) at 3pm, Match Game '77 at 3:30pm where it belonged followed by All In The Family (the network 3pm show) at 4pm. Strange days indeed. Even stranger when Johnny Olson was heard to say that Tattletales was next as MG77 was ending.
It gets odder. In the autumn of 1977, TV-8 began their hour-long news and interview show Noontime, which resulted in the CBS schedule running nowhere close to proper order. First of all, Match Game '77 was bounced, never to run on TV-8 again. Tattletales moved to 9am followed by the syndicated Hollywood Connection, the 10-11:30 schedule played like it should, then The Young and the Restless (the network 1pm show) ran at 11:30am, Search For Tomorrow (the network 12:30pm show) ran at 1pm, the 1:30pm-3pm soaps ran on time as did All In The Family followed by Love Of Life (the network 11:30am show) at 3:30pm, which meant The CBS Midday News with Douglas Edwards ran at 3:55 in the afternoon.
When Here's Lucy completed its rerun cycle in the late fall of 1977 and The Guiding Light became Guiding Light and expanded to a full hour of compelling drama, TV-8 moved All In The Family to 11am.
In early 1978, Hollywood Connection was dropped, TV-8 moved Tattletales to 10am and All In The Family moved to 4pm. They dropped Love Of Life in the fall of 1978 in favor of the network's 5-a-week M*A*S*H repeats. In the late summer of 1979, Noontime was cancelled and finally!!!!, the CBS daytime line-up was shown as it was supposed to--with the exception of 4:00 show Love Of Life, so the North Coast got its first look at Whew! four months into its run.
It was back to craziness in the early 1987 when The $25,000 Pyramid was eliminated at 10:00am to make way for reruns of Maude. A couple of months later, $25K P came back, Bea Arthur was gone and so was Card Sharks as The $1,000,000 Chance Of A Lifetime captured the 10:30am spot.
Along the way, Hollywood Squares, The Joker's Wild (definitions era) and The Challengers would be presented within the 10-11am hour until in 1991, the CBS line-up was restored to that block and remained until the hour was surrendered to the affiliated stations in 1993.
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(tons of overquoting deleted -- DZ)
KYW started preempting the 12:30 pm slot for syndicated game shows in 1983 w/Card Sharks, followed in 1984 by the first season of Jeopardy! (how could I forget this!!!!), then the following year, LMAD, and in May 1986, the $1 Million COAL. Then in Sept. 1987, High Rollers debuted in that slot. But I can't remember anything after 1988.
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[quote name=\'tmq800\' date=\'Nov 12 2004, 08:11 PM\']KYW started preempting the 12:30 pm slot for syndicated game shows in 1983 w/Card Sharks, followed in 1984 by the first season of Jeopardy! (how could I forget this!!!!), then the following year, LMAD, and in May 1986, the $1 Million COAL. Then in Sept. 1987, High Rollers debuted in that slot. But I can't remember anything after 1988.
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Where I grew up in PA, I was fortunate to have 2 affiliates for each network on our cable system (one from Scranton/Wilkes-Barre and one from Philly). Using no written notes and typing from my vague memory, I don't ever recall ever seeing an NBC network game on KYW (save for TTTT90 for a few months); but I think they did run "New Newlywed Game", TK's "Price" plus another show ($100K Pyramid?) as a block in the afternoons. I never saw an ABC network game ever; WPVI and WNEP never seemed to clear them, even going so far as to (badly) cover the promos for them (although PVI ran the Match Game reruns in the mornings in 85?). WCAU, WDAU(now WYOU) and WBRE always seemed to clear a majority of the daytime sked in the proper timeslots (thank god BRE cleared Classic Concentration otherwise I would of never seen that... then WBRE's tower fell down and things were fuzzy for a few months.)
Ah memories!
Josh
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[quote name=\'tmq800\' date=\'Nov 12 2004, 11:11 PM\'](tons of overquoting deleted -- DZ)
KYW started preempting the 12:30 pm slot for syndicated game shows in 1983 w/Card Sharks, followed in 1984 by the first season of Jeopardy! (how could I forget this!!!!), then the following year, LMAD, and in May 1986, the $1 Million COAL. Then in Sept. 1987, High Rollers debuted in that slot. But I can't remember anything after 1988.
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The CS reruns originally aired at 11:30 AM from Summer 1982-April 1983(meaning KYW preempted HIt Man for CS). The 12:30PM schedule on KYW from 9/88-9/95 included Super Password, a short-lived Syndie show called Can THis Marriage Be Saved?, Generations, Faith Daniels' NBC talk show/A Closer Look, Vicki(aired from Noon-1PM), and Marilu(aired from Noon-1PM)
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 13 2004, 03:06 AM\']WPVI and WNEP never seemed to clear them, even going so far as to (badly) cover the promos for them (although PVI ran the Match Game reruns in the mornings in 85?). WCAU, WDAU(now WYOU) and WBRE always seemed to clear a majority of the daytime sked in the proper timeslots (thank god BRE cleared Classic Concentration otherwise I would of never seen that... then WBRE's tower fell down and things were fuzzy for a few months.)
Ah memories!
Josh
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No, WPVI and WNEP didn't. When "Family Feud" moved back to 11:30 a.m. from the noon slot in October '84, they aired "Ryan's Hope" instead, which aired at noon on the network. That was the last noon show that WPVI aired. WNEP didn't even seem to air the noon time slot shows even when they DIDN'T have a noon newscast...
As for 'BRE.....I remember the tower incident....Then they came back with the "Tower of Power" once they got a new one up and running...:)
ObGameShows: Greed had a tower. :)
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When I visited San Antonio, KMOL (now WOAI) was always on again-off again with NBC's daytime game shows.
1). They favored Donahue over Card Sharks & Hollywood Squares, just like KPRC (Houston) did.
2). Didn't have Fantasy & Match Game/Hollywood Squares due to The Waltons which KPRC also did. It was an I-10 curse.
And of the 1983 game show bonanza that started on January 3, they only had Just Men! (witch's bicycle cue please).
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 13 2004, 03:06 AM\']
Where I grew up in PA, I was fortunate to have 2 affiliates for each network on our cable system (one from Scranton/Wilkes-Barre and one from Philly). Using no written notes and typing from my vague memory, I don't ever recall ever seeing an NBC network game on KYW (save for TTTT90 for a few months); but I think they did run "New Newlywed Game", TK's "Price" plus another show ($100K Pyramid?) as a block in the afternoons. I never saw an ABC network game ever; WPVI and WNEP never seemed to clear them, even going so far as to (badly) cover the promos for them (although PVI ran the Match Game reruns in the mornings in 85?). WCAU, WDAU(now WYOU) and WBRE always seemed to clear a majority of the daytime sked in the proper timeslots (thank god BRE cleared Classic Concentration otherwise I would of never seen that... then WBRE's tower fell down and things were fuzzy for a few months.)
Josh
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KYW did air some NBC network game shows. The show they shorted the most, at least in the 80s, was $otC, showing only eight months of the six year run. They also never aired Classic Concentration save for a bit of 1992, when CC was in straight reruns. NBC WOF aired on KYW for most of its run, for it's last 4.5 years in the afternoon. Scrabble 80s and Super Password were on in the afternoon for four and three years of their run. WPHL aired Chain Reaction in 1980, and WTAF aired Blockbusters and LV Gambit for part of their run, plus aired Time Machine, Your NUmber's Up, and part of Caesar's Challenge run. KYW did have an afternoon GS block from September 1984-January 1990, including the aforementioned network shows at various times($otC aired from Jan-Sep 1985 in this block). Syndie shows in the block included: LMAD84-85, Lange NTT, New Newlywed, Davidson HS, Kennedy TPIR, $100K Pyramid, 3rd Degree, and Jackpot 89.
WPVI never aired reruns of Syndie MG after 1982, but did air it against TPIR from 1980-82. They didn't clear any ABC daytime games after June 1983, but those at the Jersey Shore got to see all the later ABC games on WMGM(NBC in Atlantic City), save for MG90.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Nov 13 2004, 07:43 PM\']NBC WOF aired on KYW for most of its run, for it's last 4.5 years in the afternoon.
WPVI never aired reruns of Syndie MG after 1982, but did air it against TPIR from 1980-82. They didn't clear any ABC daytime games after June 1983, but those at the Jersey Shore got to see all the later ABC games on WMGM(NBC in Atlantic City), save for MG90.
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Actually, Zach, here's two little tidbits:
KYW sometime in 1991, stopped airing TTTT and started airing WoF at 11:30, as per some TVG's I have.
And in the summer of '83, once "Loving" premiered and WPVI went with it at 11:30, (then) WTAF aired Family Feud at noon. I'm hoping you know, because I'm curious - was it with the network feed or on some sort of delay?
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WKYC-TV, the NBC owned station in Cleveland, rolled all the daytime networks game shows because they were an O & O.
WEWS-TV, the ABC affiliate owned by Scripps-Howard, was very bad about clearing daytime network game shows. They also stopped showing The Edge Of Night as of 1977.
They ran the three-show afternoon game block in 1976 and ran the 12noon program (Let's Make A Deal later Hot Seat later The Don Ho Show) delayed at 10:30am the next weekday until they plopped Donahue in from 10-11am following The Morning Exchange starring Fred Griffith, Joel Rose and Liz Richards, who at the time was married to wife-beater Gary Dee.
When The $20,000 Pyramid moved to noon on ABC, that was the end of it on TV-5. When Family Feud moved to noon on ABC, that was the end of it on TV-5. Even if ABC programmed a soap opera for noon, TV-5 would delay it and refused to run the 11am or 11:30am game show in daytime. This means Second Chance, The Better Sex, Trivia Trap, All-Star Blitz, Bruce Forsyth's Hot Streak and Match Game '9x never beamed on Cleveland TV.
Never forgave 'em for that. Bums.
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WJW-TV, later WJKW-TV from 1977-85 and back to WJW-TV in 1985, the CBS affiliate in Cleveland until it became the first of the New World-owned stations to switch networks to FOX in 1994, had a warped daytime schedule of the Tiffany Network's programs during the middle 1970s.
I'm wondering why a station would possibly go to all the trouble of airing so many shows out of order? When networks schedule these shows, don't they do some research to determine which slots they'd work better in? It just seems like more trouble than it's worth to air so many shows on tape-delay - what possible benefit could they get from it? Were the ratings really that much better in Cleveland as a result of it?
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Nov 14 2004, 01:13 PM\']I'm wondering why a station would possibly go to all the trouble of airing so many shows out of order? When networks schedule these shows, don't they do some research to determine which slots they'd work better in? It just seems like more trouble than it's worth to air so many shows on tape-delay - what possible benefit could they get from it? Were the ratings really that much better in Cleveland as a result of it?
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I'd like to know what the ratings in Philly were like - that's the first place I ever saw an out-of-kilter network lineup where Scrabble aired at 3, SP at 3:30, and WoF at 4. I often wondered what was so special about those three game shows that they were "picked" to air in the afternoon ($otC, for example, did not).
Good thing KYW still doesn't keep up those practices, even though they're now CBS.....TPiR would air at like 3 in the afternoon. :)
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[quote name=\'aaron sica\' date=\'Nov 14 2004, 03:17 PM\']
I'd like to know what the ratings in Philly were like - that's the first place I ever saw an out-of-kilter network lineup where Scrabble aired at 3, SP at 3:30, and WoF at 4. I often wondered what was so special about those three game shows that they were "picked" to air in the afternoon ($otC, for example, did not).
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NBC $otC DID air from Jan-Sep 1985 at 3PM on KYW(syndie version never aired in Philly). WPXI in Pittsburgh aired daytime WOF in the afternoon in the mid 80s, and aired Super Password prior to Noon on two different occasions(1984-85 at 11AM and again for part of 1987 at 9AM)
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I've got an interesting 4pm preemption which involved an ABC O&O preempting a game show for a show then on CBS! In the fall of 75, "The Edge of Night" was slated to move from the tiffany network to the alphabet net. However, WJBK Channel 2, the then-Storer-owned CBS affil, decided to drop the soap a few weeks before the move. WXYZ, an ABC O&O on Channel 7 bumped the lame-duck YDS'75 to show the CBS EONs (delayed from 2:30) at 4 which otherwise would not have cleared Motown. Of course in December, EON would join the full ABC net at 4, but Channel 7 didn't even show YDS on a db during that time.
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[quote name=\'aaron sica\' date=\'Nov 14 2004, 12:17 PM\']I'd like to know what the ratings in Philly were like - that's the first place I ever saw an out-of-kilter network lineup where Scrabble aired at 3, SP at 3:30, and WoF at 4. I often wondered what was so special about those three game shows that they were "picked" to air in the afternoon ($otC, for example, did not).
Good thing KYW still doesn't keep up those practices, even though they're now CBS.....TPiR would air at like 3 in the afternoon. :)
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In the fall of 1999, KCBS moved TPiR to 3:00 so they could air Dr. Joy Browne at 10:00. Apparently, it didn't help the ratings for either show.
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[quote name=\'trainman\' date=\'Nov 15 2004, 01:13 AM\']In the fall of 1999, KCBS moved TPiR to 3:00 so they could air Dr. Joy Browne at 10:00. Apparently, it didn't help the ratings for either show.
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That I do remember.....Having possessed satellite TV at the time, it was neat to be able to watch TPiR at 6pm (EST).
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I've got an interesting 4pm preemption which involved an ABC O&O preempting a game show for a show then on CBS! In the fall of 75, "The Edge of Night" was slated to move from the tiffany network to the alphabet net.
The very first episode of "The Edge of Night" on ABC was a 90-minute special starting at 3 p.m. - which no doubt caused major headaches for the stations that normally pre-empted the show at 4. WKBW, for example, aired a special "Commander Tom" children's show on that Monday, and ran the 90-minute "Edge of Night" at 10 the next morning, pre-empting "Donahue".
As earlier mentioned, "Edge" replaced "You Don't Say" on ABC. One of the episodes in the trade curcuit mentioned that they'd have kids playing during Christmas week, something they apparantly did in the NBC days. Too bad they never got to that week before they were cancelled.