The Game Show Forum

The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Casey Buck on February 12, 2009, 01:13:42 AM

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Casey Buck on February 12, 2009, 01:13:42 AM

TVC at golden-road.net  (http://\"http://www.golden-road.net/index.php/topic,10306.msg151261.html\") apparently had access to Monday's ratings for TPiR in the top 25 markets. Here they are (the ratings are separated into the first half and second half hours):

New York (WCBS): 1.2/1.4

Los Angeles (KCBS): 1.9/2.3

Chicago (WBBM): 2.5/3.3

Philladelphia (KYW): 2.6/3.4

Dallas-Fort Worth (KTVT): 2.6/2.4

San Francisco (KPIX): 1.3/1.9

Boston (WBZ): 4.5/4.3

Atlanta (WGCL): 1.6/1.5

Washington, D.C. (WUSA): 0.7/1.1

Houston (KHOU): 2.4/3.5

Detroit (WWJ): 2.0/3.3

Phoenix (KPHO): 2.0/1.9

Tampa (WTSP): 1.7/2.3

Seattle (KIRO): 2.1/2.5

Minneapolis (WCCO): 5.5/6.2

Miami (WFOR): 2.3/3.0

Cleveland (WOIO): 2.7/3.2

Denver (KCNC): 2.6/2.4

Orlando (WKMG): 3.3/3.6

Sacramento (KOVR): 3.1/3.8

Saint Louis (KMOV): 2.2/3.3

Portland (KOIN): 1.5/3.2

Pittsburgh (KDKA): 4.2/6.1

Charlotte (WBTV): 3.5/4.5

Indianapolis (WISH): 3.9/4.4

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Craig Karlberg on February 12, 2009, 03:15:09 AM

If we're to believe that a rating of 2 is considered "decent" for a network show, then places like New York & San Fransisco are struggling while those like Pittsburgh & Minneapolis/St.Paul get very good ratings.  Putting into perspective for my area, KYW here in Philly seems to be doing OK.

It's not just the TPIR numbers at KDKA that jump out at you.  Their newscasts get even bigger numbrs than TPIR.  In fact, their 11PM newscasts got a whopping 13.1.  That's what happens when community loyalty rears its positive head here.  Methinks more stations should "rediscover" this.  Same affect may be occuring in places like Minneapolis & Boston too.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Joe Mello on February 12, 2009, 04:23:39 AM

My initial thoughts on the subject: Let's use statistics!  So I did.  (Not sure which is sadder; wanting to do stats first or actually doing it)

1st half-hour:  Average, 2.56; St. Dev, 1.14
2nd half-hour: Average, 3.15; St. Dev, 1.29
Combined: Average, 2.854; St. Dev, 1.23

For what it's worth, you can do worse than Price.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Robair on February 12, 2009, 05:24:03 AM

One thing to remember looking at those figures is that the show was not fully cleared in New York...there was a news conference televised so a lot of people probably bailed on Price that morning and went to seek solace in Cableville.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: mmb5 on February 12, 2009, 09:06:17 AM

[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'207990\' date=\'Feb 12 2009, 04:23 AM\']
My initial thoughts on the subject: Let's use statistics!  So I did.  (Not sure which is sadder; wanting to do stats first or actually doing it)

1st half-hour:  Average, 2.56; St. Dev, 1.14
2nd half-hour: Average, 3.15; St. Dev, 1.29
Combined: Average, 2.854; St. Dev, 1.23

For what it's worth, you can do worse than Price.
[/quote]
You really can't do that.  The market sizes aren't equal.  For example, New York has more viewers than the last six markets (Sacramento through Indianapolis) combined.


--Mike

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Jimmy Owen on February 12, 2009, 10:04:55 AM

What did "The View" get?

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: BrandonFG on February 12, 2009, 01:58:17 PM

In Market 44 (Norfolk/Newport News/Virginia Beach), the show pulls a 3.04/3.35, behind The View and narrowly beating The 700 Club on the ABC and NBC affiliates, respectively. On average for February, the show averages about a mid-3 rating.

FWIW, the February numbers show a sizable increase compared to that of Feb. 2008...

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Joe Mello on February 12, 2009, 08:05:33 PM

[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'207995\' date=\'Feb 12 2009, 09:06 AM\']You really can't do that.  The market sizes aren't equal.[/quote]
I thought about that this afternoon, but hey, it's not bad for 4 in the morning, right?

If I wanted a full dissection, I would probably need ratings for everything that airs between 10:30 and 12:30 in each market as well as weighting for each market.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: clemon79 on February 12, 2009, 08:38:10 PM

[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'208044\' date=\'Feb 12 2009, 05:05 PM\']
I thought about that this afternoon, but hey, it's not bad for 4 in the morning, right?[/quote]
If by "not bad" you mean "utterly worthless data", then sure, "not bad."

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: TimK2003 on February 12, 2009, 09:05:12 PM

Here in Colorado, TPIR airs at either 9AM, 10AM  or 11AM MT depending on which part of the state you live in:



9AM:   Grand Junction/NW Colorado*:  against Regis & Today

10AM: Denver/NE Colorado: against The View and Colorado & Company (a local "Today")

10AM: Colorado Springs/Pueblo/SE Colorado: against the View & Today

11AM: Albequerque/Santa Fe/SW Colorado*:  against Bonnie Hunt and Good Day, NM (another local "Today")


Without the help of the ratings books I would make a guess that TPIR is #1 west of Colorado's Continental Divide (-*), and The View probably edges out Price on the east.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: tpirfan28 on February 13, 2009, 09:04:17 AM

The South Bend/Elkhart, IN market (DMA 108) got TPIR nearly fully pre-empted for President Obama's visit to Elkhart.  The other stations broke in for a few minutes (his landing at the airport) and then went back to programming.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: CarShark on February 13, 2009, 07:57:56 PM

I'm more interested in seeing if the young female demo ratings have increased since the introduction of more designer label fashions. Isn't that more important for a daytime TV show?

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: JasonA1 on February 14, 2009, 01:49:10 PM

[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'208129\' date=\'Feb 13 2009, 08:57 PM\']
I'm more interested in seeing if the young female demo ratings have increased since the introduction of more designer label fashions. Isn't that more important for a daytime TV show?
[/quote]

I don't hate the designer stuff categorically, but it's clear nobody can price it. When they did a bunch of designer stuff as a "designer wardrobe" prize package in one of the grocery/small prize games, it was cool. As a random item in Danger Price, it'd be cool (the Danger Price is something small, and you find out the designer boots are $3000 - shock and awe!). But as IUFBs where nobody bids close, it's getting old.

Maybe even have them as part of a showcase where the models come down a runway, and it pulls apart to show off a sleek/luxury car as the last prize. It'd be severely underbid on, but it wouldn't be a horrible theme.

-Jason

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: CarShark on February 14, 2009, 08:13:52 PM

[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'208161\' date=\'Feb 14 2009, 01:49 PM\']I don't hate the designer stuff categorically, but it's clear nobody can price it. When they did a bunch of designer stuff as a "designer wardrobe" prize package in one of the grocery/small prize games, it was cool. As a random item in Danger Price, it'd be cool (the Danger Price is something small, and you find out the designer boots are $3000 - shock and awe!). But as IUFBs where nobody bids close, it's getting old.[/quote]Actually, it doesn't seem to be just the designer duds. The IUFBs have been quite expensive the last couple weeks, including a $5K+ dude ranch vacation and a $5K+ wicker lounger. It seems that more and more of them are above $2000 in price...which strikes me as odd, because I thought the show was facing a bit of a budget crunch. I would think that one of the easiest ways to save money would be to cheapen the six items you know are going to be awarded to someone. The prizes given to contestants not appearing on stage seem to be much better than the standard fare I'd gotten used to, but since those are always plugged it's probably a wash.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Fedya on February 14, 2009, 09:04:15 PM

A $5K wicker lounger?

Perhaps the producers were budgeting in the hope that the prize was going to be declined.  You could probably buy a decent wicker lounger (or one in a material you prefer) for less than you'd pay in taxes on the TPIR schlock.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: MikeK on February 15, 2009, 12:15:08 AM

Are we assuming that the extravagant prizes weren't offered to TPiR for free, or at least at a heavily reduced price?

[quote name=\'Fedya\' post=\'208182\' date=\'Feb 14 2009, 09:04 PM\']A $5K wicker lounger?

Perhaps the producers were budgeting in the hope that the prize was going to be declined.  You could probably buy a decent wicker lounger (or one in a material you prefer) for less than you'd pay in taxes on the TPIR schlock.[/quote]
It's time for this image's Invision debut (http://\"http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/hmtriplecrown/taxburden.jpg\").

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: TLEberle on February 15, 2009, 12:19:18 AM

Applause. :)

/Does this overtake the absurdity of the $16,000 internet fridge?

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: MikeK on February 15, 2009, 12:30:17 AM

[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'208198\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 12:19 AM\']/Does this overtake the absurdity of the $16,000 internet fridge?[/quote]
It was $16,000 AUS, so it's a *little* less absurd.  In American bucks, it's still a $10,000+ refrigerator.

Another candidate for this category came from Temptation as well, in the form of an almost $33,000 AUS bed.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Casey Buck on February 15, 2009, 12:39:09 AM

[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'208198\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 12:19 AM\']/Does this overtake the absurdity of the $16,000 internet fridge?[/quote]What about the $10,000 fish bowl from the High Rollers finale? That would be worth about $25,000 today.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on February 15, 2009, 02:41:52 AM

[quote name=\'MikeK\' post=\'208197\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 12:15 AM\']Are we assuming that the extravagant prizes weren't offered to TPiR for free, or at least at a heavily reduced price?[/quote]
If there's no logo graphic with the prize, it wasn't sponsored, and the cost came entirely out of the show's budget.  I could be wrong, but I don't recall most of these prizes having such a graphic.

I think any discussion of the effect this has on the budget can be filed under "We Thought This Through Farther Than the Show Did."

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Craig Karlberg on February 15, 2009, 04:37:38 AM

Then the question is, would you rather have a $5K+ wicker lounger or a near $4K pinball machine?  For me, I'd take the machine in a heartbeat over the lounger because I'm a casual gamer.  So I would decline the lounger if I won it, but kept the machine.  That meant I had to win momey on the wheel just to even compensate for the taxes on that machine.  If no money, I have no choice BUT to sell it just to pay whatever taxes that would incurr on that prize.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: NickS on February 15, 2009, 09:44:25 AM

This discussion (the *actual* discussion) brings up a good point that I wish more people playing game shows for prizes would understand: you're going to get a W-9 if you win over $600... so game-show'er beware.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Matt Ottinger on February 15, 2009, 11:03:32 AM

This isn't nearly in the same sphere as a $19K wine fridge, but I was watching the show the other day and saw them offer a trip to Dollywood, Dolly Parton's amusement complex in Pigeon Forge, TN.   I'm very familiar with the area.  An unlimited "gold pass" for the entire season at Dollywood is something like $150, and the biggest, best and nicest hotels in the area charge less (sometimes MUCH less) than $100 a night for their rooms.  So even rounding up (WAY up) at full retail prices, a couple is set for the week for about a thousand bucks.  Add another thousand for airfare, and you might approach $2K.  The show said the trip cost more than four thousand dollars.  Where do they come up with those numbers, and why would Dollywood want to come across as looking like such an expensive place to visit??

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: tyshaun1 on February 15, 2009, 12:39:29 PM

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'208215\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 11:03 AM\']
This isn't nearly in the same sphere as a $19K wine fridge, but I was watching the show the other day and saw them offer a trip to Dollywood, Dolly Parton's amusement complex in Pigeon Forge, TN.   I'm very familiar with the area.  An unlimited "gold pass" for the entire season at Dollywood is something like $150, and the biggest, best and nicest hotels in the area charge less (sometimes MUCH less) than $100 a night for their rooms.  So even rounding up (WAY up) at full retail prices, a couple is set for the week for about a thousand bucks.  Add another thousand for airfare, and you might approach $2K.  The show said the trip cost more than four thousand dollars.  Where do they come up with those numbers, and why would Dollywood want to come across as looking like such an expensive place to visit??
[/quote]
Maybe there was a night with Dolly Parton included with the prize?

Tyshaun

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: ChrisLambert! on February 15, 2009, 12:48:34 PM

Perhaps Dollywood has cooked up something similar to Cedar Point's $375 VIP tour? (http://\"http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/admission/vip.cfm\")

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: mcsittel on February 15, 2009, 01:31:16 PM

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'208215\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 10:03 AM\']
This isn't nearly in the same sphere as a $19K wine fridge, but I was watching the show the other day and saw them offer a trip to Dollywood, Dolly Parton's amusement complex in Pigeon Forge, TN.   I'm very familiar with the area.  An unlimited "gold pass" for the entire season at Dollywood is something like $150, and the biggest, best and nicest hotels in the area charge less (sometimes MUCH less) than $100 a night for their rooms.  So even rounding up (WAY up) at full retail prices, a couple is set for the week for about a thousand bucks.  Add another thousand for airfare, and you might approach $2K.  The show said the trip cost more than four thousand dollars.  Where do they come up with those numbers, and why would Dollywood want to come across as looking like such an expensive place to visit??
[/quote]

Did they say which airport they fly into?  Assuming Knoxville, did they throw in rental car to drive to Pigeon Forge?  I've heard of some strange fares in/out of the smaller towns, Knoxville being one of them, from family living in TN.  I doubt that covers the whole disparity in cost but maybe a portion of it?

/I got married in Pigeon Forge
//It was less than $1,000
///The clock will start with your first bid... go!
///Yes I'm still married

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Matt Ottinger on February 15, 2009, 01:45:32 PM

[quote name=\'mcsittel\' post=\'208225\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 01:31 PM\']Did they say which airport they fly into?  Assuming Knoxville, did they throw in rental car to drive to Pigeon Forge?  [/quote]
Yes, they specifically mentioned Knoxville as the airport destination, which makes sense since there's really no other commercial choice.  I don't think they specifically mentioned a rental car (or meals, for that matter), but that goes to the core of the game itself.  If expensive details like that are part of the package but not mentioned, how is anybody supposed to make anything resembling an informed guess as to the price?

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: TLEberle on February 15, 2009, 02:47:20 PM

I had a couple of thoughts while laughing at the Demotivational Walk-In Wine Cellar. If nothing else, it provides a link to the black-and-white days, with the wacky and gi-huge-ic prizes. And isn't that what TPIR is about, besides the nifty games and atmosphere? How interesting would it be to bid on dishwashers and recliners all the time? I don't know how many people thought "Hm, if it's a wine cellar today, what'll it be tomorrow?" but that's a fine way to build up buzz about the show. And the chances that the prize actually goes home with someone seem remote at best.

Going back to the Olde-Tyme TPIR, one of the ways that you can beat the memorizers is to throw in some quantity of something else with the IUFB or showcases. Barbecue up for bids? Add 82 jars of mustard. Wardrobe closet in the showcase? Add 24 neckties. Start offering gold in fractions of ounces. And so on.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: J.R. on February 15, 2009, 03:42:27 PM

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'208215\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 10:03 AM\']Where do they come up with those numbers, and why would Dollywood want to come across as looking like such an expensive place to visit??[/quote]
Perhaps the prize includes spending money?

I know I've read from ex-contestants that the trip values on WOF includes $1000 in spending cash, for example.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: chris319 on February 15, 2009, 03:43:52 PM

[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'208205\' date=\'Feb 14 2009, 11:41 PM\']
[quote name=\'MikeK\' post=\'208197\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 12:15 AM\']Are we assuming that the extravagant prizes weren't offered to TPiR for free, or at least at a heavily reduced price?[/quote]
If there's no logo graphic with the prize, it wasn't sponsored, and the cost came entirely out of the show's budget.  I could be wrong, but I don't recall most of these prizes having such a graphic.

I think any discussion of the effect this has on the budget can be filed under "We Thought This Through Farther Than the Show Did."[/quote]
I don't know if this is a technique which has been utilized on either the CBS or NBC/ABC version of the show, but the show could start renting prizes the same as you'd rent a prop for any other TV show or motion picture. Rather than spend $19,099 on a wine fridge and keeping it in the warehouse, simply rent it for the day. The show is then out a fraction of the cost of the prize by only paying shipping and insurance to and from the manufacturer. When they're done with the prize, send it back (taking a calculated gamble that the contestant will refuse it). This is similar to what they do with trips. They tell you what the trip would consist of and cost if you took it. If the contestant refuses the prize, no tickets have been bought and no hotel rooms have been booked. With furs and other wearables they would have to send the item seen on the show back to the manufacturer unless the contestant accepted the prize and happened to be the same size as the model who wore it on the show.

Quote

Going back to the Olde-Tyme TPIR, one of the ways that you can beat the memorizers is to throw in some quantity of something else with the IUFB or showcases. Barbecue up for bids? Add 82 jars of mustard. Wardrobe closet in the showcase? Add 24 neckties. Start offering gold in fractions of ounces. And so on.

They should do that.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: tpirfan28 on February 15, 2009, 03:48:26 PM

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208234\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 03:43 PM\']
I don't know if this is a technique which has been utilized on either the CBS or NBC/ABC version of the show, but the show could start renting prizes the same as you'd rent a prop for any other TV show or motion picture. Rather than spend $19,099 on a wine fridge and keeping it in the warehouse, simply rent it for the day.[/quote]
To enter into the record, this is at least the second time this small apartment wine fridge has appeared.  The first was in a showcase.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: CarShark on February 15, 2009, 05:32:11 PM

Watching the show again on cbs.com, the trip to Dollywood included round-trip coach airfare for two to Knoxville, a rental car, 4 nights at a hotel with breakfast and lunch included, tickets to Dollywood, and two tickets to go Zorbing, which I remember from my days watching Nick GaS. From New Zealand to the Great Smoky Mountains. That added a couple hundred dollars. I still have no idea how that's $4000, though. It's $53.50 for a one-day pass for one person, according to the Dollywood site. Times two people, times four days is $428. The most expensive Zorb package I could find for the Smoky Mountains area was about $200.

I just realized something about the wine fridge. That had a generic plug like other non-fee prizes, so does that mean that the show plonked down 19 large for that Birthday Bath?

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: BrandonFG on February 15, 2009, 05:50:36 PM

My math brings it to a little more than $2,400...

-Dollywood tickets: $428
-Hotel room: assuming a room for two costs $175-200 a night, I'll guess about $900 for four nights, including the breakfast and lunch.
-Rental car: maybe $150 for an economy/midsize car
-Air fare: $800?
-Zorbing: assume it's $200

Like Joe said, I'd guess the remainder is spending dough.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on February 15, 2009, 07:22:45 PM

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208234\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 03:43 PM\']I don't know if this is a technique which has been utilized on either the CBS or NBC/ABC version of the show, but the show could start renting prizes the same as you'd rent a prop for any other TV show or motion picture.[/quote]
I believe this has been done on occasion for Golden Road.

[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'208246\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 05:32 PM\']I just realized something about the wine fridge. That had a generic plug like other non-fee prizes, so does that mean that the show plonked down 19 large for that Birthday Bath?[/quote]
Unless they rented it, yes.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Matt Ottinger on February 15, 2009, 10:46:28 PM

[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'208249\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 05:50 PM\']
My math brings it to a little more than $2,400...

-Dollywood tickets: $428
-Hotel room: assuming a room for two costs $175-200 a night, I'll guess about $900 for four nights, including the breakfast and lunch.
-Rental car: maybe $150 for an economy/midsize car
-Air fare: $800?
-Zorbing: assume it's $200

Like Joe said, I'd guess the remainder is spending dough.[/quote]
But...but...but...but...but....

Unless they SAY they're including "spending dough", how on earth are you supposed to bid on the prize?  It would be like bidding on a car, but not being told that they were including gas for a year.

(Plus, again, the mother of all season passes to Dollywood only costs $159, so it's ludicrous to price the item based on the day rate, and I can promise you that the weekly rates at the nicest hotels in Pigeon Forge don't run any more than $500.  This one just doesn't make any sense at all.)

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: TLEberle on February 15, 2009, 11:00:09 PM

[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'208249\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 02:50 PM\']-Zorbing: assume it's $200
[/quote]I just looked this up; the most expensive option I could find was $100, and the rest were between $50 and $90.

Either there's something included that we didn't pick up on, or they're cheating.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: CarShark on February 16, 2009, 12:34:27 AM

The only two things that weren't explicitly spelled out were the carrier of the flight and the name of the hotel. I went on to Travelocity and the highest price I saw for airfare from LA to Knoxville was $939 per person on Delta. I'm assuming that's the rate for the truly desperate and the permanently daft, but they might have used that. As for the hotel, I think they might have chosen a log cabin resort in Pigeon Forge since Rich's copy only mentioned a "four-night stay". That would explain why two meals were included, which is unusual. Some of those resorts can get up to $200/night. Still...it's only 4 nights rather than the more usual 6.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Dbacksfan12 on February 16, 2009, 07:31:20 AM

Did they ever mention the class of airfare?  A search on AA reveals a round trip flight first class for $1,549 (First Flexible) or an Economy Flexible flight at about $1250.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: MizzouRah! on February 16, 2009, 10:11:37 AM

Okay, I want to jump back a day or so and pick up on the PiR budget question. Back in the day, each 30 second spot was for a product, such as laundry detergent, carpet cleaner, etc.. Of course, this was 30 years ago when the wife was supposed to be at home doing the chores and watching TV. Nowadays the majority of their ad revenue is Li'l Rascal Scooters and Wilford's Beetis monitors. These are usually 60-120 second spots. Obviously these companies aren't paying a fortune for multiple long running spots. So my question...Where does TPiR come up w/ the budget for the show? Start w/ Drew's salary, then work down the ladder, then include actual daily production costs. I'm asking this as someone who doesn't know all the inner workings in the game show trade, so maybe I'm missing something. Just looks like a very tight budget to be working w/ these days.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Jimmy Owen on February 16, 2009, 11:18:14 AM

Hopefully, the profits from American Idol can offset any budget concerns at Price.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: BrandonFG on February 16, 2009, 02:07:16 PM

[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'208270\' date=\'Feb 16 2009, 07:31 AM\']
Did they ever mention the class of airfare?
[/quote]
CarShark said coach.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Joe Mello on February 16, 2009, 03:26:22 PM

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'208276\' date=\'Feb 16 2009, 11:18 AM\']
Hopefully, the profits from American Idol can offset any budget concerns at Price.[/quote]
Aren't these two essentially independent?

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: PYLdude on February 16, 2009, 03:33:48 PM

[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'208281\' date=\'Feb 16 2009, 03:26 PM\']
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'208276\' date=\'Feb 16 2009, 11:18 AM\']
Hopefully, the profits from American Idol can offset any budget concerns at Price.[/quote]
Aren't these two essentially independent?
[/quote]

Aren't these two produced by the same company, therefore bringing in money to said company?

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Joe Mello on February 16, 2009, 04:13:12 PM

[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'208282\' date=\'Feb 16 2009, 03:33 PM\']
[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'208281\' date=\'Feb 16 2009, 03:26 PM\']
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'208276\' date=\'Feb 16 2009, 11:18 AM\']
Hopefully, the profits from American Idol can offset any budget concerns at Price.[/quote]
Aren't these two essentially independent?
[/quote]
Aren't these two produced by the same company, therefore bringing in money to said company?
[/quote]
I was under the impression that CBS foots the bill for Price, which would make AI's success moot (at least in terms of Price's budget)

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: chris319 on February 16, 2009, 06:38:54 PM

[quote name=\'MizzouRah!\' post=\'208273\' date=\'Feb 16 2009, 07:11 AM\']
Okay, I want to jump back a day or so and pick up on the PiR budget question. Back in the day, each 30 second spot was for a product, such as laundry detergent, carpet cleaner, etc.. Of course, this was 30 years ago when the wife was supposed to be at home doing the chores and watching TV. Nowadays the majority of their ad revenue is Li'l Rascal Scooters and Wilford's Beetis monitors. These are usually 60-120 second spots. Obviously these companies aren't paying a fortune for multiple long running spots. So my question...Where does TPiR come up w/ the budget for the show? Start w/ Drew's salary, then work down the ladder, then include actual daily production costs. I'm asking this as someone who doesn't know all the inner workings in the game show trade, so maybe I'm missing something. Just looks like a very tight budget to be working w/ these days.
[/quote]
The last time we counted them up there were thirty 30-second avails in TPIR. The last figures I heard from our friend the Perfesser were that they were going for $8,000 to $10,000 each. That's $240,000 per day, assuming the show is sold out. Let's be conservative and cut the rate and allow for decreased ratings and less than 100% sales. Let's say it's half, or $120,000 per day. That's $600,000 per week, or $30,000,000 per year in round numbers. Subtract $8,000,000 for Drew's salary. Let's make an educated guess that the show costs $250,000 per week to produce exclusive of prizes, BUT, they only produce (or are budgeted to produce) 39 weeks per year, so let's say production costs come to $10,000,000 per year. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to the weekly prize budget? That's going to depend on how many prizes are won and actually kept by contestants. Shall we say $100,000 per week? That's $5,000,000 per year in round numbers. So now we're looking at, per year:

Advertising revenue: $30,000,000

Drew's salary: $8,000,000

Production costs (39 weeks, exclusive of prizes): $10,000,000

Prizes: $5,000,000

That leaves $7,000,000 per year for Fremantle and CBS to divide, and that's assuming only 50% of the avails are sold. If we use more optimistic sales of 75% of avails being sold, that's $45 million per year in sales:

Advertising revenue: $45,000,000

Drew's salary: $8,000,000

Production costs (39 weeks, exclusive of prizes): $10,000,000

Prizes: $5,000,000

That's $15,000,000 per year more for Fremantle and CBS to divide; however, I'm guessing the Fremantle license fee is fixed, so the bulk of the money for increased ad sales would go to CBS.

You can't just look at ratings, shares and demos to determine the success of a show. There is a whole economic landscape you have to look at dealing with how much ad revenue comes in and how much it costs to produce the show.

There is a heapin' helpin' of guesswork in these figures, too, as everyone involved is tight-lipped about the actual numbers.

By way of reference, take an unspectacular game show from the days of old, say Body Language. An educated guess is that Tom Kennedy was making around $3,000 to $5,000 per week, or $156,000 to $260,000 per year, and he was taping 52 weeks per year to Drew's 39. This is why I say Drew is way, way, beyond the pale overpaid. Adjusting for inflation, $1,500,000 to $2,000,000 per year would be a more realistic salary for that position, considering it is a one-hour show.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: CarShark on February 16, 2009, 09:00:45 PM

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208301\' date=\'Feb 16 2009, 06:38 PM\']By way of reference, take an unspectacular game show from the days of old, say Body Language. An educated guess is that Tom Kennedy was making around $3,000 to $5,000 per week, or $156,000 to $260,000 per year, and he was taping 52 weeks per year to Drew's 39. This is why I say Drew is way, way, beyond the pale overpaid. Adjusting for inflation, $1,500,000 to $2,000,000 per year would be a more realistic salary for that position, considering it is a one-hour show.
[/quote]I think CBS (since they wanted him soooo much) decided that to attract a comedian, they had to pay him like one, rather than like a game show host. Because I suck at Teh Google, I can't find the article where Drew mentioned rather candidly that he misses being a comedian and that the money is a part of it. He mentioned that Chris Rock made over $10 million last year doing a handful of shows, as opposed to him making $8 million for several months of shows. I think CBS may have offered him something in-between, like $3 or $4 million, and he passed, thinking he could get more on the stand-up circuit. CBS knew they could still make quite a bit of profit, so they kept upping it until Drew was happy. I would argue that he is better known nowadays than TK was back then, especially in the younger demos advertisers want, so he's worth more than $1.5-$2 million.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: chris319 on February 16, 2009, 10:51:31 PM

But viewers are tuning out and the demos haven't improved -- he clearly isn't the ratings draw they were hoping for. CBS exercised remarkably poor judgement in doing the things you listed. The job requires an emcee, not a comedian. People aren't tuning in to see him. He is mediocre as an emcee: he does not know how to move slow contestants along, he does not know how to build suspense or excitement, he seems to have little sense of time, and he comes across with an indifferent attitude. Drew was all set to retire and photograph soccer matches until he was tapped for Power of 10. Now CBS is paying way too much for him.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: MizzouRah! on February 16, 2009, 11:49:22 PM

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208319\' date=\'Feb 16 2009, 11:51 PM\']
But viewers are tuning out and the demos haven't improved -- he clearly isn't the ratings draw they were hoping for. CBS exercised remarkably poor judgement in doing the things you listed. The job requires an emcee, not a comedian. People aren't tuning in to see him. He is mediocre as an emcee: he does not know how to move slow contestants along, he does not know how to build suspense or excitement, he seems to have little sense of time, and he comes across with an indifferent attitude. Drew was all set to retire and photograph soccer matches until he was tapped for Power of 10. Now CBS is paying way too much for him.
[/quote]
Thanks for the breakdown of potential ad revenue vs. cost.  I had no idea they could be turning these kind of profits. Do you know if the current ad rates are in line with the last few seasons of the Barker days, or have they adjusted them for Drew? And I agree with your review of Drew. After almost 2 seasons under his belt, he's tolerable at best. I give the guy credit for trying, but it's just not the perfect fit.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: chris319 on February 17, 2009, 12:02:25 AM

I wish I had a better idea of all of these figures, ad rates included. As I say, there is no small amount of guesstimation on my part but it's better than nothing. And yes, this is the magnitude of revenues we're dealing with. It's how they could pay Barker $10 million or whatever he was making, and how Drew can make $7 or $8 million. These guys and/or their representatives are shrewd.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: tvwxman on February 17, 2009, 09:23:21 AM

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208324\' date=\'Feb 17 2009, 12:02 AM\']
I wish I had a better idea of all of these figures, ad rates included. As I say, there is no small amount of guesstimation on my part but it's better than nothing. And yes, this is the magnitude of revenues we're dealing with. It's how they could pay Barker $10 million or whatever he was making, and how Drew can make $7 or $8 million. These guys and/or their representatives are shrewd.
[/quote]
I absoultely get the feeling that CBS thought (or still thinks) that Drew would be cross promotable into other dayparts , and were 'investing' in him... I mean, isn't that why they were so high on Dave Price in the first place?

Drew's salary may very well be a package deal for him...maybe it included "Power of 10"'s hosting salary?

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: TroubadourNando on February 17, 2009, 08:05:33 PM

Quote

I think CBS (since they wanted him soooo much) decided that to attract a comedian, they had to pay him like one, rather than like a game show host. Because I suck at Teh Google, I can't find the article where Drew mentioned rather candidly that he misses being a comedian and that the money is a part of it. He mentioned that Chris Rock made over $10 million last year doing a handful of shows, as opposed to him making $8 million for several months of shows. I think CBS may have offered him something in-between, like $3 or $4 million, and he passed, thinking he could get more on the stand-up circuit. CBS knew they could still make quite a bit of profit, so they kept upping it until Drew was happy. I would argue that he is better known nowadays than TK was back then, especially in the younger demos advertisers want, so he's worth more than $1.5-$2 million.

I'd like to see that article. If what you say is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), I wonder if Drew won't leave after his five-year deal is up.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: TimK2003 on February 17, 2009, 08:27:54 PM

[quote name=\'MizzouRah!\' post=\'208321\' date=\'Feb 17 2009, 12:49 AM\']
Do you know if the current ad rates are in line with the last few seasons of the Barker days, or have they adjusted them for Drew?
[/quote]


I read an article in The Denver Post that said that TV execs are predicting ad revenue to drop 20-30% across the board in 2009.  

It's a safe bet that using the current state of the economy alone would suggest that CBS easily made more money with TPIR in Barker's final years than what they do now with Drew.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: chris319 on February 17, 2009, 11:13:48 PM

Quote

CBS easily made more money with TPIR in Barker's final years than what they do now with Drew.

You may have something there. If Barker was reportedly making $10 million and Drew is reportedly making around $8 million, that's only a $2 million gap -- however, add another million to Barker's salary because he insisted on taping five shows over four days to Drew's six shows over three days. Even with a $3 million gap between Barker and Drew, sales are probably down more than that. Still, it's probably a safe bet that the show is still quite profitable.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: CarShark on February 18, 2009, 08:31:53 PM

How much revenue is generated by the sponsored prizes? I seem to remember that one of the reasons we don't always see games that use small prizes (Bonus Game, Secret "X", Pathfinder, etc.) is because they're rarely sponsored, outside of Libman's Wonder Mop. This has been the case for a while, at least a couple years before Drew arrived.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Joe Mello on February 18, 2009, 10:00:01 PM

[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'208434\' date=\'Feb 18 2009, 08:31 PM\']How much revenue is generated by the sponsored prizes?[/quote]
I always thought that at least for the small prizes, spots were given to the companies in exchange for getting the prizes for free or less than retail, therefore reducing production costs.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: chris319 on February 18, 2009, 10:20:23 PM

Quote

I always thought that at least for the small prizes, spots were given to the companies in exchange for getting the prizes for free or less than retail, therefore reducing production costs.

Not spots as in :30 commercials, but the prize supplier's description (ad copy) is read by Rich Fields.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: chris319 on February 20, 2009, 02:35:06 AM

Here is a fun fact from Daily Variety:

Quote

The Peacock currently shells out $1.7 million - $1.8 million a week in licensing fees for its longtime sudser 'Days of Our Lives.'

That's about $90,000,000 per year.

Let's revisit the TPIR budget. Let's total talent, production and prizes:

$8,000,000 Drew's salary

$10,000,000 Other production costs

$5,000,000 Prizes

Total: $23,000,000

Now if we take DOOL's annual license fee and divide it in half we get $45,000,000 per year; divide by four and we get just about $23,000,000 per year. So perhaps my figures for TPIR were a bit low? We don't know how much ad revenue CBS brings in and we don't know how much CBS keeps.

What do we guess TPIR's prize budget is? $5,000,000 divided by 39 weeks comes to around $128,000 per week. Does that sound right?

- Both shows are one hour in length.

- TPIR has less desirable demos.

- TPIR is cheaper to produce: six shows in three days, smaller cast, skeletal writing staff.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: TLEberle on February 20, 2009, 02:43:35 AM

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208488\' date=\'Feb 19 2009, 11:35 PM\']What do we guess TPIR's prize budget is? $5,000,000 divided by 39 weeks comes to around $128,000 per week. Does that sound right?[/quote]I think you're low by half. I remember reading a couple of places that TPIR gave away upwards of $10m worth of stuff in several of the most recent years, roughly $57,000 an episode if that's true. $128,000 per week would barely cover the winning showcases.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Casey Buck on February 20, 2009, 02:59:41 AM

[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'208489\' date=\'Feb 19 2009, 11:43 PM\'] [quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208488\' date=\'Feb 19 2009, 11:35 PM\']What do we guess TPIR's prize budget is? $5,000,000 divided by 39 weeks comes to around $128,000 per week. Does that sound right?[/quote]I think you're low by half. I remember reading a couple of places that TPIR gave away upwards of $10m worth of stuff in several of the most recent years, roughly $57,000 an episode if that's true. $128,000 per week would barely cover the winning showcases.
 [/quote]According to Joe Capitano's season finale recaps at golden-road.net, TPiR's total winnings were $12,717,617 for Season 36, $11,438,571 for Season 35, and $11,135,541 for Season 34.

Season 36 was more because they taped 190 episodes, rather than the usual 175. This averages out to about $65,000 per show, which might be a higher per-episode prize budget than any other non-primetime game show.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: chris319 on February 20, 2009, 05:48:21 AM

Is a standard season 35 or 39 weeks for TPIR?

A standard cycle in television is 13 weeks.

13 * 2 = 26

13 * 3 = 39

13 * 4 = 52

We'll say $10,000,000 for prizes. This accounts for prizes won playing games, but does not take into account prizes declined by contestants.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: CarShark on February 20, 2009, 02:06:01 PM

Looking at tpirsummaries.8m.com, a season during Barker's tenure ranged from 185 episodes (37 weeks worth) in the late 80s-early 90s to 175 (35 weeks) towards the end. In Drew's first season, 180 episodes (38 weeks) were produced.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: chris319 on February 20, 2009, 07:40:25 PM

I'm sticking with 39 weeks. Episodes do get preempted from time to time.

$8,000,000 Drew's salary

$10,000,000 Other production costs

$10,000,000 Prizes

Total: $28,000,000

Let's round it up to $30,000,000. Now let's pull a figure out of thin air and say Fremantle makes a $15,000,000 annual profit on all of this, for a total of $45,000,000. So if my math is anywhere close, TPIR comes in for 1/2 or less of DOOL's $90,000,000.

What I have calculated is not exactly a license fee, it is a guesstimate of what it costs to do the show including talent, prizes, above and below the line production, and profit for the production company.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Jimmy Owen on February 20, 2009, 08:21:09 PM

Maybe the gravy train is slowing down.  DOOL recently "retired" Deidre Hall and Drake Hogestyn due to budget cuts.  She had been on the show since 1976 and he since 1984.  NBC renewed the show for at least 18 months more, but after that, who knows?

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on February 21, 2009, 02:54:40 AM

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208522\' date=\'Feb 20 2009, 07:40 PM\']I'm sticking with 39 weeks. Episodes do get preempted from time to time.[/quote]
Or I could just post up the list I made for myself a while back of how many shows they did in every season.

Season 1:    254 – 254
Season 2:    229 – 483
Season 3:    253 – 736
Season 4:    214 – 950
Season 5:    213 – 1,163
Season 6:    228 – 1,391
Season 7:    209 – 1,600
Season 8:    191 – 1,791
Season 9:    205 – 1,996
Season 10:  196 – 2,192
Season 11:  208 – 2,400
Season 12:  197 – 2,597
Season 13:  195 – 2,792
Season 14:  186 – 2,978
Season 15:  191 – 3,169
Season 16:  186 – 3,355
Season 17:  184 – 3,539
Season 18:  177 – 3,716
Season 19:  186 – 3,902
Season 20:  178 – 4,080
Season 21:  177 – 4,257
Season 22:  185 – 4,442
Season 23:  183 – 4,625
Season 24:  183 – 4,808
Season 25:  185 – 4,993
Season 26:  184 – 5,177
Season 27:  175 – 5,352
Season 28:  165 – 5,517
Season 29:  164 – 5,681
Season 30:  175 – 5,856
Season 31:  175 – 6,031
Season 32:  175 – 6,206
Season 33:  175 – 6,381
Season 34:  175 – 6,556
Season 35:  175 – 6,731
Season 36:  190 – 6,921

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: chris319 on February 21, 2009, 04:24:16 AM

Any unaired episodes?

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Don Howard on February 21, 2009, 05:01:53 PM

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'208525\' date=\'Feb 20 2009, 08:21 PM\']
Maybe the gravy train is slowing down.  DOOL recently "retired" Deidre Hall and Drake Hogestyn due to budget cuts.  She had been on the show since 1976 and he since 1984.  NBC renewed the show for at least 18 months more, but after that, who knows?
[/quote]
Anal retentive nit-picking alert: Drake began with the show in 1986. But, yes, still a long time in the revolving door that is the industry.
As a viewer of the hourglass sudser since the mid-1970s, I continue to hold out hope for its fate, but the program is a faded shadow of its former self as far as quality of content.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: CarShark on February 21, 2009, 07:14:51 PM

[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'208546\' date=\'Feb 21 2009, 03:54 AM\']Season 36:  190 – 6,921
[/quote]Which means we've blown past Episode 7000. How far off are they this time?

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on February 21, 2009, 10:46:12 PM

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208550\' date=\'Feb 21 2009, 04:24 AM\']Any unaired episodes?[/quote]
There's three episodes not included in the list that were intentionally not aired and which had new shows taped specifically to replace them.  All episodes which were only "unaired" in the sense that they were pre-empted are in there.

[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'208590\' date=\'Feb 21 2009, 07:14 PM\'][quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'208546\' date=\'Feb 21 2009, 03:54 AM\']Season 36:  190 – 6,921[/quote]Which means we've blown past Episode 7000. How far off are they this time?[/quote]
As far as I know, it's still the same as it was five years ago -- they've done 145 more shows than they think they have.

Episode 7,000 was January 19.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: chris319 on February 22, 2009, 04:04:51 AM

Quote

There's three episodes not included in the list that were intentionally not aired and which had new shows taped specifically to replace them.

So your list is shy by three. Were the discarded shows that bad?

When estimating the cost of doing the show, it doesn't matter whether or not a show aired. It still cost over $50,000 to tape the show. If they discarded three shows and taped three replacements at $50,000 per ep, that's an additional $150,000 they have to account for.

Why does the number of episodes jump around from year to year? Is this the subject of negotiations with CBS each renewal?

WRT NBC: they could save a heap of money by cancelling DOOL and plugging MSNBC into the network for an hour. It's coming to that.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: aaron sica on February 22, 2009, 11:20:50 AM

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208609\' date=\'Feb 22 2009, 04:04 AM\']
WRT NBC: they could save a heap of money by cancelling DOOL and plugging MSNBC into the network for an hour. It's coming to that.
[/quote]

Why not just give that hour back to the affiliates?

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: tpirfan28 on February 22, 2009, 11:23:55 AM

[quote name=\'aaron sica\' post=\'208612\' date=\'Feb 22 2009, 11:20 AM\']
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208609\' date=\'Feb 22 2009, 04:04 AM\']
WRT NBC: they could save a heap of money by cancelling DOOL and plugging MSNBC into the network for an hour. It's coming to that.
[/quote]

Why not just give that hour back to the affiliates?
[/quote]
They (NBC) can still sell the commercial time, therefore make money?  That would be my guess.

/CNBC would be a better fit, IMO.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on February 22, 2009, 06:51:34 PM

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208609\' date=\'Feb 22 2009, 04:04 AM\']So your list is shy by three. Were the discarded shows that bad?

When estimating the cost of doing the show, it doesn't matter whether or not a show aired. It still cost over $50,000 to tape the show. If they discarded three shows and taped three replacements at $50,000 per ep, that's an additional $150,000 they have to account for.[/quote]
Fair enough.  For the stuff I do, it's always made more sense to me to just say there are, for instance, two episode threes, but yeah, when you're dealing with the budget, it'd be important.

For what it's worth, the third show wasn't aired because they discovered that one of the contestants was living with one of the cameramen, the third-last show of Season 28 wasn't aired because Contestants' Row got shuffled around and nobody noticed it, and there's an unaired show early in Season 14 that I've never found an explanation for.

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208609\' date=\'Feb 22 2009, 04:04 AM\']Why does the number of episodes jump around from year to year? Is this the subject of negotiations with CBS each renewal?[/quote]
Damned if I know.  Season 28 probably has something to do with Bob's surgery that year that shut down taping for six weeks, and 29 had some weird circumstance that the first 10 episodes (which ended up being 11 because of that thing I mentioned above) taped under its contract are officially the end of 28, but beyond those, your guess is as good as mine.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: chris319 on February 22, 2009, 09:10:40 PM

It looks like they were contracted for 175 shows per year starting in 1998, which is the same year they went to a four-day tape week so Barker would only have to do one show per day on Tue, Wed and Thu. They lost 10 shows in 1999 due to Bob's surgery and 10 shows in 2000 due to that "weird circumstance".

Starting with the season beginning September 2001 they've taped a consistent 175 shows per year until 2007 when Drew arrived and it went up to 190 (38 weeks). Maybe they were contracted for 39 weeks but lost a week due to Drew getting his arm stuck in the turntable?

From 1993 to 1997 it looks like they were doing 185 shows per year.

Here is your chart with years added, based on an early September start:

1972 Season 1: 254 – 254
1973 Season 2: 229 – 483
1974 Season 3: 253 – 736
1975 Season 4: 214 – 950
1976 Season 5: 213 – 1,163
1977 Season 6: 228 – 1,391
1978 Season 7: 209 – 1,600
1979 Season 8: 191 – 1,791
1980 Season 9: 205 – 1,996
1981 Season 10: 196 – 2,192
1982 Season 11: 208 – 2,400
1983 Season 12: 197 – 2,597
1984 Season 13: 195 – 2,792
1985 Season 14: 186 – 2,978
1986 Season 15: 191 – 3,169
1987 Season 16: 186 – 3,355
1988 Season 17: 184 – 3,539
1989 Season 18: 177 – 3,716
1990 Season 19: 186 – 3,902
1991 Season 20: 178 – 4,080
1992 Season 21: 177 – 4,257
1993 Season 22: 185 – 4,442
1994 Season 23: 183 – 4,625
1995 Season 24: 183 – 4,808
1996 Season 25: 185 – 4,993
1997 Season 26: 184 – 5,177
1998 Season 27: 175 – 5,352
1999 Season 28: 165 – 5,517
2000 Season 29: 164 – 5,681
2001 Season 30: 175 – 5,856
2002 Season 31: 175 – 6,031
2003 Season 32: 175 – 6,206
2004 Season 33: 175 – 6,381
2005 Season 34: 175 – 6,556
2006 Season 35: 175 – 6,731
2007 Season 36: 190 – 6,921

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: NickS on February 22, 2009, 09:29:45 PM

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'208488\' date=\'Feb 20 2009, 01:35 AM\']

What do we guess TPIR's prize budget is? $5,000,000 divided by 39 weeks comes to around $128,000 per week. Does that sound right?

- Both shows are one hour in length.

- TPIR has less desirable demos.

- TPIR is cheaper to produce: six shows in three days, smaller cast, skeletal writing staff.
[/quote]

DOOL does go originals during the whole year (sans SRs and holidays, but still), so while it doesn't break the bank for Price, it's still a quarter of the year that Price is in reruns.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: MizzouRah! on February 22, 2009, 10:57:18 PM

[quote name='Steve Gavazzi' date='Feb 22 2009, 07:51 PM' post='208627']
[quote name='chris319' post='208609' date='Feb 22 2009, 04:04 AM']So your list is shy by three. Were the discarded shows that bad?


For what it's worth, the third show wasn't aired because they discovered that one of the contestants was living with one of the cameramen, the third-last show of Season 28 wasn't aired because Contestants' Row got shuffled around and nobody noticed it, and there's an unaired show early in Season 14 that I've never found an explanation for.

Over the last few years it's been much publicized that if a show doesn't air, prizes are usually not awarded. So, does anyone know if the contestants/winners got their prizes from the unaired TPiR eps?  It's not like they could be asked back to play again on a future episode.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Dbacksfan12 on February 23, 2009, 07:10:04 AM

[quote name=\'MizzouRah!\' post=\'208635\' date=\'Feb 22 2009, 10:57 PM\'] It's not like they could be asked back to play again on a future episode.[/quote]If the shows are unaired, how would anyone know if someone got called down a second time?

They could simply 'pick' one of them, and no one would be the wiser.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: chris319 on February 23, 2009, 03:02:51 PM

[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'208645\' date=\'Feb 23 2009, 04:10 AM\']
[quote name=\'MizzouRah!\' post=\'208635\' date=\'Feb 22 2009, 10:57 PM\'] It's not like they could be asked back to play again on a future episode.[/quote]If the shows are unaired, how would anyone know if someone got called down a second time?

They could simply 'pick' one of them, and no one would be the wiser.
[/quote]
It won't work.

Suppose they won a car on their first show but failed to win One Bid on the second? That doesn't make them good.

Suppose they live in Florida? Who's going to pick up their travel expenses the second time around?

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: CarShark on February 23, 2009, 05:13:30 PM

Looking at the ratings again, it kind of explains something I've complained about before: the front-loading of line-ups, so that the more interesting (and often longer) games show up as games 1-4, while the quicker games get stuck in the back to make up time. During this season, that got to be magnified several times over to the point that I almost never expected a car or cash game in the second half. Recently, the line-ups have been better balanced.

Looking back on it, I don't know if it was the worst thing to do. Since the show's second-half ratings are higher than it's first-half's, and I don't think it loses too many viewers at the halfway point, it seems to me like the best thing to do is to get as many eyeballs during the first half as you can and let the surfers wander in during IUFB 5.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on February 23, 2009, 08:53:54 PM

[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'208674\' date=\'Feb 23 2009, 05:13 PM\']Looking at the ratings again, it kind of explains something I've complained about before: the front-loading of line-ups, so that the more interesting (and often longer) games show up as games 1-4, while the quicker games get stuck in the back to make up time. During this season, that got to be magnified several times over to the point that I almost never expected a car or cash game in the second half. Recently, the line-ups have been better balanced.

Looking back on it, I don't know if it was the worst thing to do. Since the show's second-half ratings are higher than it's first-half's, and I don't think it loses too many viewers at the halfway point, it seems to me like the best thing to do is to get as many eyeballs during the first half as you can and let the surfers wander in during IUFB 5.[/quote]
...and then wander right back out because they never play anything interesting that late in the show anymore.

And I'm not sure how things have been "better balanced" lately -- there hasn't been a car game sixth since January 15, and there hasn't been a regular grocery item or small prize game sixth since December 11.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Joe Mello on February 23, 2009, 09:34:44 PM

[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'208688\' date=\'Feb 23 2009, 08:53 PM\']
...and then wander right back out because they never play anything interesting that late in the show anymore.
[/quote]
Except for the Showcases and the news, both of which probably are more interesting to the general public than the rest of the show.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: CarShark on February 24, 2009, 05:27:35 PM

[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'208688\' date=\'Feb 23 2009, 08:53 PM\']...and then wander right back out because they never play anything interesting that late in the show anymore.

And I'm not sure how things have been "better balanced" lately -- there hasn't been a car game sixth since January 15, and there hasn't been a regular grocery item or small prize game sixth since December 11.
[/quote]Well, Steve, they may not be playing car games sixth anymore, but they are showing up fifth with some regularity again, and with good reason. If someone is wandering in at IUFB 5 at 11:30, the best way to keep them there is with a major prize game. I think Plinko has shown up fifth more times than I can remember. Plus, since most of those segments are 5 minutes long (which I believe is the shortest time you can watch and still have the program register in a Neilsen box), it makes it more likely that they get counted, even if the person turns away later. The sixth game isn't quite as important for maintaining viewers as much as keeping the show from running long. Double Prices shows up in the six-hole almost every week.

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on February 25, 2009, 02:27:26 AM

[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'208726\' date=\'Feb 24 2009, 05:27 PM\']If someone is wandering in at IUFB 5 at 11:30, the best way to keep them there is with a major prize game.[/quote]
Really?  Seems to me that the best way to keep them around is having someone hosting who actually understands how to host, regardless of what the prizes are.

I guess I just feel like the show is ignoring its real problems if this is the one they're attempting to "fix."

Title: TPiR Feburary 9th ratings (top 25 markets)
Post by: NickintheATL on February 26, 2009, 12:52:36 PM

Allow me to interject a fresh, new take on all of this.  I have long been withdrawn of posting my opinion about Drew Carey here on these internets, but feel as if I must chime in with some analysis here regarding his hosting and the ratings.

I don't think he's cutting it.  I never have thought he's cut it.  And, he's going to have to do a lot in my book to improve.

Let me do an aside here.  In my opinion, a good host should know his show backwards and forwards.  That means just about every nuance of it.  Second, you have to have the art of contestant interaction down to a science.  Finally, you must realize that you have to take the show seriously, but not too seriously otherwise the show won't be fun.

Applying my above analysis to Mr. Carey, he's good at contestant interaction.  He takes the show seriously at times, but other times he's sorely lacking.  But, as some fans will tell you, he doesn't explain the rules of pricing games properly sometimes, and that is a problem in and of itself.

What does this have to do with declining viewership?  When Drew first came on board, everyday people at my college were giving me opinions to the effect of, "I just can't get into him."  And this was when he started.  First impressions mean a lot apparently.  If viewers tuned out in the beginning, are they going to tune back in now?  I say not, but you never know.  I'm very convinced the ratings ARE a problem, no matter what data you're looking at.