The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Jeremy Nelson on September 20, 2007, 08:02:58 PM
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Is it just me, or does $25,000 no longer excite contestants on Wheel? Over the past 3 years, everytime I saw a contestant win it in the bonus round, they gave an emotionless cheer and a dejected face. If I didn't know any better, these people borrowed their facial expressions from some Jeopardy! winners. I know Wheel is way past having $25K as their only top prize, but jeez, isn't $25K still worth something to people?
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It's certainly something, but it's the lowest prize available in the bonus round. You don't go into it thinking "I hope I win the $25,000." That's like playing Punch-a-Bunch and hoping for $500. Sure it's good money, but nothing compared to what's possible.
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What Kevin said, pretty much. As soon as you've solved the bonus puzzle, you know you've won $25,000. When the envelope opens, there's a 1/3 chance that you'll win more money ($5,000 to $75,000 more), a 5/12 chance that you'll (basically) have to buy a car with your winnings (which may or may not be a good thing, depending on the circumstances), and a 1/4 chance that you'll end up with just what you already knew you had.
A $25,000 envelope is basically a zero. It's not really that conducive to glee. What could be done about that?
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[quote name=\'Steve McClellan\' post=\'164408\' date=\'Sep 20 2007, 05:34 PM\']
A $25,000 envelope is basically a zero. It's not really that conducive to glee. What could be done about that?
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Um, get contestants that aren't so damned greedy as to look mournful when they win $25,000?
/anyone who wants to give me their zero-value $25,000 check, please contact me
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[quote name=\'Steve McClellan\' post=\'164408\' date=\'Sep 20 2007, 07:34 PM\']
What could be done about that?
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I don't know what you can do. If you raise the minimum prize to say, $50,000, then you'll have people disappointed about winning that.
Perhaps it'd be best to throw a bunch of prizes onto the wheel, and offer only a sprinkling of cash prizes.
Either that, or cast better contestants.
A $25,000 envelope is basically a zero. It's not really that conducive to glee.
Oh, bull. $25,000 would pay off just about all my debts. I sure as hell wouldn't be bitching about being debt-free.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'164411\' date=\'Sep 20 2007, 05:40 PM\']
I don't know what you can do. If you raise the minimum prize to say, $50,000, then you'll have people disappointed about winning that.
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Well, stepping away from the issue of idiot contestant coordinators for a moment, here's the solve: go through all of that before you play the endgame.
If you MUST do the variable-prize thing, you select and find out what you are playing for BEFORE you play for it. That way, if you win it, you're happy you won it and that is that. Any "disappointment" at playing for the minimum prize (and if those people are truly "disappointed", I'd like to "meet" them so I can "deliver" a "cockpunch" unto them) is over and done with before the Big Moment, and likely minimized because they still need to get themselves up to win *something*.
(Personally, I'd be thrilled as hell to win $25K, because I don't have to flip $25K like I would have to with a car. For my money, the REAL Whammies on the Prize Wheel are the trips.)
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I've never noticed someone look "disappointed" per se, but they do sometimes look devoid of any emotion, almost like "Damn...that's it?!" I mean, can you really be upset when your chances of $100K are 1-in-24?
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'164412\' date=\'Sep 20 2007, 08:45 PM\']
(Personally, I'd be thrilled as hell to win $25K, because I don't have to flip $25K like I would have to with a car. For my money, the REAL Whammies on the Prize Wheel are the trips.)
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Not to go Horan on you, but it's just cars and money. And yes, the $25K could at least pay off my car, and still have some left over, not to mention what I've won in the maingame, assuming that's at least $10K cash, give or take a couple thousand.
I'd even take the car, considering that's gonna be at least another $25K, and I can at least sell to a dealer. Granted, it won't be the full $25K, esp. after taxes, but it's several thousand more than I walked in with.
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The point I was going for, was that the $25,000 win is several seconds old by the time the envelope is revealed. (And believe me, several seconds is an eternity under those conditions.) You know you have at least $25,000 the instant you figure out the puzzle - now, what you're hoping for is a large number to add to it. If you don't get any more, I can imagine the feeling being similar to, that of missing the bonus round but still having, say, $36,000 from the game.
I know that in my case, I was extremely happy when I knew the solution, and immediately after I gave it (knowing I've just picked up $25,000, but will it be more?). After a couple seconds, my attention at once turned to that envelope. And yeah, if it had been $25,000 in there, I was just going to make a conscious effort to continue the happiness from solving the puzzle. As Pat opened the envelope to look for himself, I saw four trailing zeroes and a hook at the bottom of the first digit. I was prepared to ramp my happiness a bit for a $30,000 win. When I finally saw the $50,000, there was a major shot of glee.
So, yeah, I can kinda see the mindset that would cause that kind of reaction, but there's definitely no excuse for letting that show on the air.
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[quote name=\'Steve McClellan\' post=\'164415\' date=\'Sep 20 2007, 09:18 PM\']
If you don't get any more, I can imagine the feeling being similar to, that of missing the bonus round but still having, say, $36,000 from the game.
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Yeah, well...fools and their never-ending demand for 'mo money, I guess.
I seem to recall having this same debate a few years ago over the top prize on Pyramid or another series where some five-digit amount was deemed miniscule.
I just don't see how winning $25,000 can be such a letdown. I haven't even made that much this year.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'164417\' date=\'Sep 20 2007, 10:22 PM\']
I just don't see how winning $25,000 can be such a letdown. I haven't even made that much this year.
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I think Wheel has just been throwing so much money at these contestants, that when they get to the Bonus Round, they want to win a whole bunch more. So if they have like $30,000 already from the game, $25,000 to them is very small. And when they lose the Bonus Round and see the 25 grand was their, Most times their reaction is "Oh Well".
Now if I won $25,000 I would be screaming and Jumping up and down, because that is still in this world today a lot of Money.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'164417\' date=\'Sep 20 2007, 07:22 PM\']I just don't see how winning $25,000 can be such a letdown. I haven't even made that much this year.[/quote]It's all in the potential. If you're on a state lottery show, with a chance to win a million bucks, but only come away with $25,000; you might have a case of the "What Might Have Beens." "If only the wheel would have moved a peg more, I could have had $100,000," or some such.
Which is not to say I wouldn't turn up my nose at $25,000.
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[quote name=\'Steve McClellan\' post=\'164408\' date=\'Sep 20 2007, 08:34 PM\']
A $25,000 envelope is basically a zero. It's not really that conducive to glee. What could be done about that?
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I completely disagree, Steve. As also a former contestant on Wheel of Fortune, if I had been fortunate enough to go to the bonus round and win $25,000, even after taxes, my debt would have went bye bye.
Like when I tell people I only won $2,250. The first thing most say is "Only? I would kill right now for $2,250!"
Tim :-)
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[quote name=\'Timsterino\' post=\'164422\' date=\'Sep 20 2007, 09:53 PM\']
[quote name=\'Steve McClellan\' post=\'164408\' date=\'Sep 20 2007, 08:34 PM\']
A $25,000 envelope is basically a zero. It's not really that conducive to glee. What could be done about that?
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I completely disagree, Steve. As also a former contestant on Wheel of Fortune, if I had been fortunate enough to go to the bonus round and win $25,000, even after taxes, my debt would have went bye bye.
Like when I tell people I only won $2,250. The first thing most say is "Only? I would kill right now for $2,250!"
Tim :-)
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That goes double for me. Winning $9,300 alone was amazing, and when my friends back at NIU found out, they were excited that I got that much. To college students--broke college students--$9,300 is sweet.
Keep in mind, if I went to the bonus round, I would be excited if I even solved the puzzle. I guess the moral of the story is "the greedier you get, the higher the disappointment level"
\And for the record, I wasn't greedy on my show. I just couldn't solve the damn puzzle.
\\The puzzle was "Handcrafted Silver Jewelery"
\\\Blew a trip to Mexico and $8,100 also. Meh.
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No, I see Steve's point. The Moment of Winning is passed. The moment you're seeing a tepid reaction to is the Moment of Winning More. Which is why I propose burying that moment to before the puzzle.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'164424\' date=\'Sep 20 2007, 11:13 PM\']
No, I see Steve's point. The Moment of Winning is passed. The moment you're seeing a tepid reaction to is the Moment of Winning More. Which is why I propose burying that moment to before the puzzle.
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I can understand Steve's point also as I read the thread further. I would still be excited no matter what, I guess I would not be overanalyzing the situation. There are still plenty of contestants who get excited at $25,000, I know I would have been one of them.
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Yeah, nobody is saying that $25,000 isn't a lot of money, or that contestants aren't happy to win it. But the "reveal" is supposed to provide us another jolt of jumping-up-and-down excitement, and it's not surprising that this second jolt isn't quite as electrifying when the player learns that they've won the absolute minimum they could possibly win.
The first reaction is "Yay, I've won at least $25,000!" When it turns out that you've won exactly that, the typical reaction is more like "OK, cool." No one's making a face, or throwing it back. They're just not more happy because they didn't win any more. I don't think that's greedy of them. Like Steve says, this is all happening in the span of a few seconds, and there's just nothing motivating that second jump-up-and-down moment except a larger than expected amount.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'164424\' date=\'Sep 20 2007, 08:13 PM\']
No, I see Steve's point. The Moment of Winning is passed. The moment you're seeing a tepid reaction to is the Moment of Winning More. Which is why I propose burying that moment to before the puzzle.
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Another option is to go back to one cash prize and several merchandise prizes. When they see they've won a prize, they're first thought might not be "That's the lowest valued prize." But yeah, since it's basically been a HOMGZ MO MONEY show, prizes probably wouldn't be the way to go.
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[quote name=\'whoserman\' post=\'164429\' date=\'Sep 20 2007, 09:22 PM\']Another option is to go back to one cash prize and several merchandise prizes. When they see they've won a prize, they're first thought might not be "That's the lowest valued prize." But yeah, since it's basically been a HOMGZ MO MONEY show, prizes probably wouldn't be the way to go.[/quote]Not now, no, but I wouldn't have a problem with $5,000-$25,000 in cash, and various prizes that fall in that range. The problem with that is that Wheel of Gimmicks has one gadget per round that can win $10,000. If they were scaled back, and maybe round three is the Gimmick Round, with a rotating special thing, $25,000 would be swoon-worthy.
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It's possible that a car whose value is less than $25,000 is hit as a bonus prize win. Even the main game cash may or may not cover any taxes on that car. I guess $25,000 means diffrent things to diffrent people. A low or fixed income person winning that much may think of winning $25,000 as "life-changing" while those in the middle class & higher up see it as just a mere "life-enhancer". By that I mean, $25,000 means nothing more than either paying off any debts that occurred or simply something a little extra to store untill it's needed. Granted $25,000 to me is just like winning say, $5,000 back in the 70's & 80's. It's either life-changing or life-enhancing depending on your income & perception.
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A lot of the problem of the emotionless winners goes back to the contestant coordinators. The CCs are so adamant of spending their time telling their robotic contestants to yell out their choice of letters/vowels a certain way, I think they forget to tell the contestants that no matter what they win, they should ALWAYS show positive hyper-excitement.
A simple solution to the bonus round: State at the beiginning of the round that a correct guess will net $25,000, then you can decide to 'risk it' by picking an envelope on the mini-wheel that can either raise it anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, or can lower it from $5,000 to $25,000 (have one BANKRUPT card in the mix), or will add a prize (like a car, trip, etc...). Then we'll see more people who will be happy to take home $25K.
There should be an element of risk in the final round just like in the main games.
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...or just make sure the CC are telling them to be excited regardless.
...or get better CCs.
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It seems to me that they went to the five envelopes before the mini-wheel 17-some years ago because when left to their own choice, the contestants almost always picked the $25,000--and back when the switch was made from shopping to all-cash, the $25,000 was, like today, the *lowest* value of any of the end game prizes. Times have changed.
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Right now, I'd be thrilled to have $25,000 in the bank. I'd probably have to look for a different place to live, as per the income-related guidelines they have at the complex I'm at now, but at least that amount would pay some big bills and get a couple of big-ticket purchases paid off at last, with plenty still left over.
Not to veer too far away from the subject, but even though Set For Life wasn't much of a game and that you could watch the whole hour in 15 minutes without missing anything essential, it would have been a helluva deal for me to be a contestant on. Even to get just a year's worth of big monthly checks would put me in better financial shape than I'd ever been.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'164451\' date=\'Sep 21 2007, 08:28 AM\']
It seems to me that they went to the five envelopes before the mini-wheel 17-some years ago because when left to their own choice, the contestants almost always picked the $25,000--and back when the switch was made from shopping to all-cash, the $25,000 was, like today, the *lowest* value of any of the end game prizes. Times have changed.
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Exactly the case. Because even then they realized that cash > prizes.
Frankly, it entertains me a little when I ponder it and realize that WOF's rush towards Mo' Money is biting them in the ass now, even in this small way.
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How 'bout a set of puzzles, varying in difficulty according to the prize that's chosen. Spin the wheel, you see your prize--and you know how tough your puzzle is going to be: if $25K is the minimum they want to give away in the bonus, fine--then that puzzle is easier than the $100K puzzle. If there's "disappointment" to be shown at only getting the $25K, Pat can manage it: "Okay, you can do this--this should be easy..."
Or, alternatively, have the CCs remind these greedful hoo-hahs that they could be playing Merv's other word game, where all their winnings could be taken away by somebody who answered exactly one question all day... ;)
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[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'164455\' date=\'Sep 21 2007, 10:40 AM\']
How 'bout a set of puzzles, varying in difficulty according to the prize that's chosen. Spin the wheel, you see your prize--and you know how tough your puzzle is going to be: if $25K is the minimum they want to give away in the bonus, fine--then that puzzle is easier than the $100K puzzle. If there's "disappointment" to be shown at only getting the $25K, Pat can manage it: "Okay, you can do this--this should be easy..."
Or, alternatively, have the CCs remind these greedful hoo-hahs that they could be playing Merv's other word game, where all their winnings could be taken away by somebody who answered exactly one question all day... ;)
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Or tell them that if that they want really big money, they can go on Drew Carey's New York show-also owned by Sony.
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[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'164455\' date=\'Sep 21 2007, 10:40 AM\']
Or, alternatively, have the CCs remind these greedful hoo-hahs that they could be playing Merv's other word game, where all their winnings could be taken away by somebody who answered exactly one question all day... ;)
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Or, alternatively, that they can go on Merv's other word game and win the game just by answering exactly one question...
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'164459\' date=\'Sep 21 2007, 11:52 AM\']
Or tell them that if that they want really big money, they can go on Drew Carey's New York show-also owned by Sony.
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Bad idea. There, you have people who win $100K and have a host tell them it's not enough.
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My comment: if you get on Wheel, and you're not happy with $25k, get over it, and regret you tried out for Wheel in the first place. Next time, try out for Millionaire, if you want some easy big money. You could've always sat in the audience for TPIR, where you'd have to get doubly lucky to (1) get on stage, (2) then win money by either playing one of the cash games and (3) winning big there or (4) getting lucky spinning their own big wheel, for $11k tops. When's the last time somebody's won $25k in cash on TPIR? *Thinks back* Not in my recent memory...
However, IN EFFORT to play along and try to fix something that doesn't require such, I offer this for WOF. You solve the puzzle, Pat opens the card, and he reveals $25k. NOW, Pat says, "Great, you can walk away with your $25k or if you want, you can come back tomorrow and try to improve on that, and possibly win $100k in the bonus then..."
However, by coming back, you risk everything you've won for the first day. Now we'd really see who'd bit** about winning $25k. You could even throw in some extra big money cards the next day for players who wanna be risky, giving them more of a incentive.
Another solution? Bring back the returning champs format. People should be ecstatic they'll be back again anyway, I'd believe, so maybe the whiners will be happy enough their "dissatisfaction with $25k" won't show. Nevertheless, returning champs always sounds like a good idea for Wheel to have again...
However, I wouldn't change a thing about that bonus round at this point, if I had my druthers. There's no need.
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[quote name=\'wheelloon\' post=\'164496\' date=\'Sep 21 2007, 03:52 PM\']
However, IN EFFORT to play along and try to fix something that doesn't require such, I offer this for WOF. You solve the puzzle, Pat opens the card, and he reveals $25k. NOW, Pat says, "Great, you can walk away with your $25k or if you want, you can come back tomorrow and try to improve on that, and possibly win $100k in the bonus then..."
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Lousy idea, IMO. Yeah, it adds suspense, but if I worked my butt off to rack up $25,000 and then some, I'd be pretty pissed about giving it up, esp. with a game that's 90% luck. It was different on $ale, when you at least controlled your own destiny. You could have one really good game, and the next day, hit Bankrupt or Lose A Turn on every single spin.
Won't argue with the returning champions format though.
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I'm wondering what universe I've slipped into, where the WoF contestant coordinators aren't telling the contestants to be hyper-excited about everything. Hell, maybe they're not excited in the bonus round because they've been forcing themselves to be thrilled about every single thing that has occurred for the last 20 minutes.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'164498\' date=\'Sep 21 2007, 03:57 PM\']
You could have one really good game, and the next day, hit Bankrupt or Lose A Turn on every single spin.
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Would you like that $37,561 as a gift certificate, or on account? ;)
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Another solution? Bring back the returning champs format. People should be ecstatic they'll be back again anyway, I'd believe, so maybe the whiners will be happy enough their "dissatisfaction with $25k" won't show. Nevertheless, returning champs always sounds like a good idea for Wheel to have again...
That's what I was thinking. Maybe they're "disappointed" because they know that was their only shot at the big money. If they had another chance to play, it probably wouldn't "disappoint" them too much.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'164498\' date=\'Sep 21 2007, 02:57 PM\']
[quote name=\'wheelloon\' post=\'164496\' date=\'Sep 21 2007, 03:52 PM\']
However, IN EFFORT to play along and try to fix something that doesn't require such, I offer this for WOF. You solve the puzzle, Pat opens the card, and he reveals $25k. NOW, Pat says, "Great, you can walk away with your $25k or if you want, you can come back tomorrow and try to improve on that, and possibly win $100k in the bonus then..."
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Lousy idea, IMO. Yeah, it adds suspense, but if I worked my butt off to rack up $25,000 and then some, I'd be pretty pissed about giving it up, esp. with a game that's 90% luck.
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So smile, and tell Pat "No thanks, I'm done". How hard is that?
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'164558\' date=\'Sep 22 2007, 07:30 AM\']
So smile, and tell Pat "No thanks, I'm done". How hard is that?
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Ummm...not at all. But, how many people do you really think are going to risk their thousands and cash on a game of Hangman. Yes, I know Jim Lange's "Chance of a Lifetime" and $ale of the Century used the same option, but at least then, you could say the contestants had a huge load to play for.
What's the incentive on Wheel? Another $25,000 or so? Not worth it IMO.
The lack of contestants going for it would make this option useless.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'164570\' date=\'Sep 22 2007, 03:13 PM\']
The lack of contestants going for it would make this option useless.
[/quote]
Well, its not like Wheel hasn't had useless rules before...
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'164449\' date=\'Sep 21 2007, 08:07 AM\']A simple solution to the bonus round: State at the beiginning of the round that a correct guess will net $25,000, then you can decide to 'risk it' by picking an envelope on the mini-wheel that can either raise it anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, or can lower it from $5,000 to $25,000 (have one BANKRUPT card in the mix), or will add a prize (like a car, trip, etc...). Then we'll see more people who will be happy to take home $25K.[/quote]For one, I think the $100,000 thing is absurd anyway, and the idea of having a "bankrupt" card even more so.
There should be an element of risk in the final round just like in the main games.
I disagree. The bonus should be just that, a bonus.
I think the recent Australian version had it right. Have a "bonus round" overlay on the wheel. Spin it, have Charlie do his copy reading (which gives Pat and the winner time to move down to the bonus spot). Solve the puzzle, win whatever came up.
The "lack of enthusiasm" could be attributed to coming down from the adrenaline high of being on television in front of millions of people, and winning stacks of money...and then it's all done.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'164578\' date=\'Sep 22 2007, 05:01 PM\']...recent Australian version...[/quote]
Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Aussie WOF's had the golden bonus wheel since day one in 1980.