The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: tyshaun1 on January 12, 2004, 11:55:43 AM
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Going by the headline on Mediaweek.com, H2 has officially received its walking papers. Unfortunately they have restricted access to the article, so I cannot confirm it yet, but it's in the headline. Has anyone heard similar news? I know it was considered only a matter of time, but this is the first I've heard on concrete word.
Tyshaun
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[quote name=\'tyshaun1\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 11:55 AM\'] Going by the headline on Mediaweek.com, H2 has officially received its walking papers. Unfortunately they have restricted access to the article, so I cannot confirm it yet, but it's in the headline. Has anyone heard similar news? I know it was considered only a matter of time, but this is the first I've heard on concrete word.
Tyshaun [/quote]
If this is indeed true, then 'tis a shame. I guess they'll play out the rest of this season first(hope the game on the last show is finished before time runs out LOL). THe writing was pretty much on the wall for Squares, unfortunately. They got six seasons out of it, though, the last new syndie game show to survive that long was 1988-95 Feud.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 12:02 PM\'] [quote name=\'tyshaun1\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 11:55 AM\'] Going by the headline on Mediaweek.com, H2 has officially received its walking papers. Unfortunately they have restricted access to the article, so I cannot confirm it yet, but it's in the headline. Has anyone heard similar news? I know it was considered only a matter of time, but this is the first I've heard on concrete word.
Tyshaun [/quote]
If this is indeed true, then 'tis a shame. I guess they'll play out the rest of this season first(hope the game on the last show is finished before time runs out LOL). THe writing was pretty much on the wall for Squares, unfortunately. They got six seasons out of it, though, the last new syndie game show to survive that long was 1988-95 Feud. [/quote]
Apparently the season ends in late Feb. Usually they shoot until April/May.
If true, it is a shame. It had gotten better after Whoopi left.
But it had 2 seasons to improve the ratings, and I guess that wasn't enough.
Tom joked during the break back in October that this season would be it's last. I really wish it wasn't, but they had a good run.
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And this all stems from its rule changes, I assume....
I knew that going to a "Best 2-out-of-3" idea was gonna hurt the show's ratings!
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 02:32 PM\'] And this all stems from its rule changes, I assume....
I knew that going to a "Best 2-out-of-3" idea was gonna hurt the show's ratings! [/quote]
Tell me you are not serious. That is about as ridiculous as the idea that GSN's ratings are down because of monkey mistakes. H2's ratings have been going down since the end of Whoopi's tenure. The ratings stayed about the same last season, and peaked this year during John Ritter's posthumous week. Other than that, the ratings have not done enough to make waves.
Besides, we've been speculating cancellation for about two years, when it was revealed "The Insider" (fall 04 entry) would be taking H2 slots on CBS O&O's.
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Wasn't the cancellation a fait accompli even before the season began?
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So would you say that Whoopi helped or hurt the show?
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Ratings notwithstanding, I think the bigger problem might be clearances. Remember that the CBS O&Os (WCBS, KCNC, etc.) are already committed to replacing Squares next season with what appears to be a spinoff of Entertainment Tonight.
Personally, I thought the changes made this season were for the better. They brought in more of the flavor of the original run, but still had room for plenty of jolly good giggles. It's too bad the ratings didn't uptick more than they did.
...and I wanted to see a third Game Show Week, too! Rats!
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It's too bad that H2 is going down the drain. At least it lasted longer than John Davidson's.
You wanted to see a 3rd Game Show Week, how about a 3rd Blondes Have More Fun Week.
There hasn't been a special week for civilian gentlemen contestants since the 1987 Jeopardy! Tournament of Champions. That's 16 years!
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 02:41 PM\'] [quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 02:32 PM\'] And this all stems from its rule changes, I assume....
I knew that going to a "Best 2-out-of-3" idea was gonna hurt the show's ratings! [/quote]
Tell me you are not serious. [/quote]
Consider the source.
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Ratings notwithstanding, I think the bigger problem might be clearances. Remember that the CBS O&Os (WCBS, KCNC, etc.) are already committed to replacing Squares next season with what appears to be a spinoff of Entertainment Tonight.
This may be the dumbest question I've asked since we first got here on Invision but, couldn't King World put a clause in those stations' contracts for H2 saying "if the show is renewed for another season, you must and you will keep it where you have it now on your schedule OR ELSE!"?
Personally, I thought the changes made this season were for the better. They brought in more of the flavor of the original run, but still had room for plenty of jolly good giggles. It's too bad the ratings didn't uptick more than they did.
Last I heard, it was still getting at least a 2.0! If I were the syndicator and I knew one of my shows was getting that kind of a rating, I would've renewed it!
...and I wanted to see a third Game Show Week, too! Rats!
Personally, I didn't just want the show to come back for a seventh season, I wanted H2 to stay on....
FOREVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a number of reasons why, one of them being a third Game Show Week, which I wanted to see, too....AND I MUST!! Come on, King World, RECONSIDER!! Take away its walking papers and KEEP H2 ON FOREVER SO WE CAN SEE A THIRD GAME SHOW WEEK! and for other reasons which I shall discuss in later posts.
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Last I heard, it was still getting at least a 2.0! If I were the syndicator and I knew one of my shows was getting that kind of a rating, I would've renewed it!
It's the cost v. ratings. I think the cost is too high. Remember Studio 33 isn't cheap to rent.
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 02:50 PM\'] So would you say that Whoopi helped or hurt the show? [/quote]
In the first couple of seasons, I think she definitely helped. The show brought in respectable ratings, but the show simply got stale, and I wouldn't say it was so much her fault, although I never liked the fact that she was regarded as the "star" of the show. I think the show was losing steam, and they tried to pick it up with the "double or nothing" bonus round. Worthy effort, wrong show.
H2 was a great change of pace, and Henry Winkler showed he could do game shows as well as he did his other TV shows. And I honestly think that the 2 out of 3 format showed what was wrong with the first 5 seasons: the show dragged out way too long. The 2/3 format allowed for decent game rotation, even though there's been some episodes without bonus rounds.
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 02:29 PM\']This may be the dumbest question I've asked since we first got here on Invision but, couldn't King World put a clause in those stations' contracts for H2 saying "if the show is renewed for another season, you must and you will keep it where you have it now on your schedule OR ELSE!"?
[/quote]
Whereupon the station would say "oh, we have about 20 other shows that want good time spots and won't be as restrictve. Don't let the door hit you in the Secret Square on the way out." Syndication is a buyer's market; there are always more shows wanting to get on than space available, especially since the WB and UPN were formed.
[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 02:29 PM\']
Last I heard, it was still getting at least a 2.0! If I were the syndicator and I knew one of my shows was getting that kind of a rating, I would've renewed it!
[/quote] At what price? Doing a dating show on the cheap is one thing, doing one where you're paying nine people five days of AFTRA scale plus Bergeron host pay PLUS a prize budget is another.
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 03:41 PM\']
Last I heard, it was still getting at least a 2.0! If I were the syndicator and I knew one of my shows was getting that kind of a rating, I would've renewed it!
It's the cost v. ratings. I think the cost is too high. Remember Studio 33 isn't cheap to rent. [/quote]
And you've got 11 on air personalities to pay, and while most of them (I would imagine) get scale, Martin Mull/Tom Bergeron probably aren't cheap, particularly the latter.
I just hope Bergeron finds a vehicle other than AFV when H2 does disappear. I also hope we get a finale show. I've always thought Tom could handle a late night talker fairly well (he even brought it up on his Kilborn appearance not too long ago).
T
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 02:32 PM\'] And this all stems from its rule changes, I assume....
I knew that going to a "Best 2-out-of-3" idea was gonna hurt the show's ratings! [/quote]
What the hell?
I really wish you would *think* before you type.
Brandon Brooks
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Geez, six years is a long run -- longest syndie run since Family Feud '88-'95. That's pretty good.
Squares has had four different runs, and three have been pretty successful. I'm sure it'll be back again sometime.
In the interim, let's keep in mind the folks on the show who will be job hunting (I'm not referring to Bergeron or Henry Winkler -- the folks behind the camera who were drawing a steady paycheck for their work).
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 02:50 PM\'] So would you say that Whoopi helped or hurt the show? [/quote]
Helped. Absolutely.
Before Whoopi left the show they were actually able to wrangle some pretty impressive people into those boxes. Could you imagine Jane Fonda doing "Squares" at any other time in her career? (Those shows are pulling weekend duty now.)
However, "Squares" post-Whoopi has gone back to the regrettable same-old-stars-every-week format. Next week, Dom Deluise, Phyllis Diller and Charo will be on the show as if it were actually 1971, Burbank, and Peter Marshall all over again. And the biggest star that week? Toss up between Melissa Peterman of "Reba" and Rondell Sheridan of "That's So Raven".
So what really killed the show? They simply can't get compelling stars anymore. If you can tune into "ET" or "Extra" and get your Jen Aniston fix, why the hell should you watch H2?
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[quote name=\'Robair\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 08:10 PM\'] So what really killed the show? They simply can't get compelling stars anymore. If you can tune into "ET" or "Extra" and get your Jen Aniston fix, why the hell should you watch H2? [/quote]
Well....yeah....but....
I never really watched the Marshall Squares for the compelling stars. What you look for (or hope for) is the right combination that makes for entertaining television. Whoopi definitely helped sell the show originally, but I happen to think the show was creatively at its best the last couple of years with B-listers who cared rather than A-listers who didn't.
If the rumors are true, I don't see Whoopi leaving two years ago as the reason for the show being cancelled today. It's merely a casualty of its own inability -- Whoopi or no -- to break out of the 2-3 rating range. Six years is a heck of a run. We should be praising it, not burying it.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 10:46 PM\'] Six years is a heck of a run. We should be praising it, not burying it.
[/quote]
I'm in total agreement there. By today's television standards, six years is an amazing run for a syndiacted game show (that isn't named Jeopardy or Wheel, for a change).
I am sorry to see the show go. It was a lot of fun seeing how Henry Winkler took the show and made it classic again. I also liked the "Marshall Plan" that was implemented into this show's last season as well as the Davidson-style bonus round put in at the beginning of his reign as Exec. Producer. I honestly thought that the terribly flawed "double or nothing" bonus round would mark the beginning of the end of this current version of Squares. I am glad that I was wrong.
Throwing money issues aside, it is sad to see how a show of this quality gets canned and bottom of the barrel television (dating shows that I will not mention here) that is not even registering a 1.0 are still being shown ad nauseum. And what is Squares being replaced with? Yet ANOTHER show involving celebrity worship and fodder that the normal human being would respond to by saying "Who cares?" I guess "overkill" is not an operative word in Hollywood.
Here's to Tom Bergeron finding even better success in the future. He really has gained status as a game show elite, in my opinion.
The Inquisitive One
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 10:46 PM\'][quote name=\'Robair\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 08:10 PM\'] So what really killed the show? They simply can't get compelling stars anymore. If you can tune into "ET" or "Extra" and get your Jen Aniston fix, why the hell should you watch H2? [/quote]
[/quote]
Because seeing your favorite stars on a GAME show like H2 is BETTER AND MORE FUN AND MORE EXCITING than seeing them on ET or Extra or any OTHER entertainment news program! I don't want to hear any of my favorites talk about any upcoming projects or whatever on those shows when on H2, I could be seeing them win LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF LOOT FOR THE CONTESTANTS!!!
We should be praising it, not burying it.
Actually, what we really should do is start a petition to keep the show on FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER!!! EVEN if H2 must now be at least 300 times more expensive to produce than this ET spinoff that the CBS O&O's want to replace it with in the fall, King World is making the BIGGEST mistake that has ever been made by ANYONE in television by dropping it!!!
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 10:33 PM\']Because seeing your favorite stars on a GAME show like H2 is BETTER AND MORE FUN AND MORE EXCITING than seeing them on ET or Extra or any OTHER entertainment news program! I don't want to hear any of my favorites talk about any upcoming projects or whatever on those shows when on H2, I could be seeing them win LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF LOOT FOR THE CONTESTANTS!!![/quote]
*sigh*
Your unnecessary CAPITALIZATION is REALLY hard to READ!!!!!!![/i][/b]
Actually, what we really should do is start a petition to keep the show on FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER!!!
Yer high.
A petition is not going to make any difference
EVEN if H2 must now be at least 300 times more expensive to produce than this ET spinoff that the CBS O&O's want to replace it with in the fall, King World is making the BIGGEST mistake that has ever been made by ANYONE in television by dropping it!!!
You want to pay for the production costs yourself?
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 01:33 AM\'] [quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 10:46 PM\'][quote name=\'Robair\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 08:10 PM\'] So what really killed the show? They simply can't get compelling stars anymore. If you can tune into "ET" or "Extra" and get your Jen Aniston fix, why the hell should you watch H2? [/quote]
[/quote]
Because seeing your favorite stars on a GAME show like H2 is BETTER AND MORE FUN AND MORE EXCITING than seeing them on ET or Extra or any OTHER entertainment news program! I don't want to hear any of my favorites talk about any upcoming projects or whatever on those shows when on H2, I could be seeing them win LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF LOOT FOR THE CONTESTANTS!!!
We should be praising it, not burying it.
Actually, what we really should do is start a petition to keep the show on FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER!!! EVEN if H2 must now be at least 300 times more expensive to produce than this ET spinoff that the CBS O&O's want to replace it with in the fall, King World is making the BIGGEST mistake that has ever been made by ANYONE in television by dropping it!!! [/quote]
There's a reason we called you what we did back in the day. As Casey stated, your emphasis is unnecessary, and only refutes any point you may have made.
Obviously, America doesn't agree with your sentiments. Petitions never work in these cases--and the "forever" garbage you typed will detract any willing signers you may have had.
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 11:33 PM\'] [quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 10:46 PM\'][quote name=\'Robair\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 08:10 PM\'] So what really killed the show? They simply can't get compelling stars anymore. If you can tune into "ET" or "Extra" and get your Jen Aniston fix, why the hell should you watch H2? [/quote]
[/quote]
Because seeing your favorite stars on a GAME show like H2 is BETTER AND MORE FUN AND MORE EXCITING than seeing them on ET or Extra or any OTHER entertainment news program! I don't want to hear any of my favorites talk about any upcoming projects or whatever on those shows when on H2, I could be seeing them win LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF LOOT FOR THE CONTESTANTS!!!
We should be praising it, not burying it.
Actually, what we really should do is start a petition to keep the show on FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER!!! EVEN if H2 must now be at least 300 times more expensive to produce than this ET spinoff that the CBS O&O's want to replace it with in the fall, King World is making the BIGGEST mistake that has ever been made by ANYONE in television by dropping it!!! [/quote]
Now THAT is the Thad Dixon we all know and......um, know.
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If you can tune into "ET" or "Extra" and get your Jen Aniston fix, why the hell should you watch H2?
Just to see some B-list stars trying to act like A-listers, that's all. Oh, and to hear those bluff answers as well. Hey, wasn't that always the case with Pyramid and Match Game?
And on an off-topic note: Since Robair brought up ET and Extra, I did an online commentary a while ago about how far those two -- and the very, VERY, VERY childish Access Hollywood, which I no longer watch anymore; thanks a whole bunch, Pat O'Brien! -- go for exclusives.
I know this is not the place to talk about these shows, but I wish we had an off-topic forum so I could continue with this.
At least the Bergeron H2 -- despite Shadoe Stevens being let go after Winkler took over -- was more fast-paced than Davidson's; the time-consuming multimedia questions and too much goofiness (thanks to Jm J. Bullock) on THAT version was the deathblow.
Jonathan Allen
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I know this is not the place to talk about these shows, but I wish we had an off-topic forum so I could continue with this.
I suggest you get yourself a blog. I, erm, SWARE!! we'll all subscribe.
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Well, here is the "official" story from our friend, Mr. Beverly. Take whatever you want from this.
Hollywood Squares Axed by King World
The announcement was almost anti-climactic, expected since a decision from the CBS-owned stations to drop Hollywood Squares next fall in favor of The Insider, yet another magazine series from Viacom-owned Paramount Television.
After a valiant two-year attempt to save the sinking game, King World announced the cancellation of Squares Monday at the Television Critics Association tour.
Production will continue through the May sweeps on the six-year-old revival of the celebrity game which brought host Tom Bergeron an Emmy three years ago.
When the series returned six years ago, Squares was considered pivotal for the future of new game shows in syndication after a decline in the genre. With a $6 million annual salary for Whoopi Goldberg as executive producer and Center Square, the show ponied up more money for bigger-name celebrities.
The show reached a zenith with a 4.8 rating in the 1999-2000 season and a ranking as high as ninth in the syndicated Nielsens.
However, by season three, Goldberg's personality----which had thoroughly dominated the show the first two years with reaction shots of Goldberg on virtually every other celebrity's question----began to wear thin. The show's content began to wane with fewer questions on each show. In addition, tampering with the show's end game created a bigger-money but unwieldy format.
Goldberg was dumped at the end of the fourth season after a 48 percent drop in ratings between 2000 and 2002. Former actor Henry Winkler and Michael Levitt were brought in as executive producers and began to stem the ratings bleeding.
Winkler and Levitt developed creative theme weeks, including two featuring game show legends. They restructured the bonus game and significantly increased the number of questions in each episode.
The producers succeeded in stemming the ratings bleeding but the damage appeared to be done when in January 2003, the CBS-owned stations agreed to drop Squares from prime access in 2004. Viacom moved the game to its co-owned UPN affiliate in Los Angeles in the fall of 2002 in favor of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire (which will likely require a new outlet in fall 2004).
King World withheld an announcement on the show's fate until after the November sweeps. Season-to-date ratings show Squares at a 2.2, falling behind a slightly-resurgent Family Feud among existing game shows and tied with Pyramid.
Source: http://tvgameshows.net/ (http://\"http://tvgameshows.net/\")
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I wonder why Steve didn't mention that King World is also owned by CBS/Paramount/Viacom/Infinity/National Amusements, etc. So in essence the replacement of a King World show for a Paramount on the CBS O&Os is all in the family.
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[quote name=\'Card Shark\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 08:01 AM\'] Well, here is the "official" story from our friend, Mr. Beverly. Take whatever you want from this. [/quote]
You put "official" in quotes, so you may already realize this, but for those who don't, there's nothing any more "official" about Steve Beverly writing about Squares on his fan page than there is about us talking about it here. Unless he's attending the Television Critics Association tour (and believe me, if he was he'd let us know about it!) he learned the same way we all did, by hearing about it secondhand through another source.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 10:01 AM\'][quote name=\'Card Shark\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 08:01 AM\'] Well, here is the "official" story from our friend, Mr. Beverly. Take whatever you want from this. [/quote]
You put "official" in quotes, so you may already realize this, but for those who don't, there's nothing any more "official" about Steve Beverly writing about Squares on his fan page than there is about us talking about it here. Unless he's attending the Television Critics Association tour (and believe me, if he was he'd let us know about it!) he learned the same way we all did, by hearing about it secondhand through another source.[/quote]
While we some of us have issues with Steve, has anybody actually e-mailed him or spoken to him face to face (maybe at a convention) to question his credibility?
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I think the show was losing steam, and they tried to pick it up with the "double or nothing" bonus round. Worthy effort, wrong show.
Which, as per E! THS, was Whoopi's idea...notice how it was (thankfully) among one of the first things to go after her departure. :-)
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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It's too bad that H2 is going down the drain. At least it lasted longer than John Davidson's.
Twice as long, in fact...a run which was actually predicted by our own John Fenner when the series premiered.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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[quote name=\'Card Shark\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 07:01 AM\'] The producers succeeded in stemming the ratings bleeding but the damage appeared to be done when in January 2003, the CBS-owned stations agreed to drop Squares from prime access in 2004. Viacom moved the game to its co-owned UPN affiliate in Los Angeles in the fall of 2002 in favor of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire (which will likely require a new outlet in fall 2004).[/quote]
Sorry, Steve, but KCAL is an independent. Chris C. could tell you which station in LA is the UPN affil. :)
And as for the "why are those dating shows still on?" question, demos, baby, demos. The relationship shows may not pull big household numbers but get the key demos and are cheap to produce--cheaper to produce than "H2." Also, in the late-night time slots many of the shows run in it's more economical for the station to run them and get the people who don't like the guests of Jay, Dave or Jimmy.
And they're not *all* staying on the air. "Shipmates" got canned last year, "Ex-Treme Dating" is probably getting the ax this year (especially since Twentieth took care of their deal with the devil involving Jillian Bimbo-rie by renewing "Good Day Live," the strangest renewal of the year so far, which should be giving new hope to Jack Ford and Alexandra Wentworth) and "5th Wheel" is on the fence. At least the trend towards how-to/makeover shows will probaby preclude any more new relationship shows next fall.
And I assume that in Chicago, the end of "H2" will probably mean news coming back to 11 a.m. on WBBM, with "Insider" probably going in at 4 p.m. and an attempt to get Dr. Phil away from WMAQ and into the corporate family if "Living It Up!" tanks. (Martha Stewart's still around after Kilbourn, but I assume that this is her last season before eternal HGTV reruns.)
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[quote name=\'tyshaun1\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 11:55 AM\'] Going by the headline on Mediaweek.com, H2 has officially received its walking papers. Unfortunately they have restricted access to the article, so I cannot confirm it yet, but it's in the headline. Has anyone heard similar news? I know it was considered only a matter of time, but this is the first I've heard on concrete word.
Tyshaun [/quote]
I'm not surprised, it was dropped in many markets at the beginning of this season.
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And this all stems from its rule changes, I assume....
I knew that going to a "Best 2-out-of-3" idea was gonna hurt the show's ratings!
No, as others have pointed out, the show's fate was pretty much sealed after the CBS O&Os announced plans to carry that ET spinoff show starting next fall.
And if anything, the 2-out-of-3 match format helped the show, not hurt it...made for faster gameplay, combined w/the dumping of those time-consuming "Behind the Squares" bumpers going into breaks.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 12:11 PM\'] While we some of us have issues with Steve, has anybody actually e-mailed him or spoken to him face to face (maybe at a convention) to question his credibility? [/quote]
I have no problem with his credibility. He's every bit as credible as Chris Lambert, Marc Green, myself or anyone else who maintains a personal web site devoted to game shows. My point is that while he certainly puts more hours into his hobby than the rest of us do, he's just a fan with some bandwidth. He reads press releases, offers opinions and occasionally makes mistakes, just like the rest of us do. If you see something on his site, it's probably legit but it is not necessarily "official".
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 11:11 AM\'] [quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 10:01 AM\'][quote name=\'Card Shark\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 08:01 AM\'] Well, here is the "official" story from our friend, Mr. Beverly. Take whatever you want from this. [/quote]
You put "official" in quotes, so you may already realize this, but for those who don't, there's nothing any more "official" about Steve Beverly writing about Squares on his fan page than there is about us talking about it here. Unless he's attending the Television Critics Association tour (and believe me, if he was he'd let us know about it!) he learned the same way we all did, by hearing about it secondhand through another source.[/quote]
While we some of us have issues with Steve, has anybody actually e-mailed him or spoken to him face to face (maybe at a convention) to question his credibility? [/quote]
Um, let the "old timers" from ATGS direct you to the Google archives for some of Mr. Beverly's screw ups(cough cough)!
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[quote name=\'HSquares2003\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 11:25 AM\'] [quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 11:11 AM\'] [quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 10:01 AM\'][quote name=\'Card Shark\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 08:01 AM\'] Well, here is the "official" story from our friend, Mr. Beverly. Take whatever you want from this. [/quote]
You put "official" in quotes, so you may already realize this, but for those who don't, there's nothing any more "official" about Steve Beverly writing about Squares on his fan page than there is about us talking about it here. Unless he's attending the Television Critics Association tour (and believe me, if he was he'd let us know about it!) he learned the same way we all did, by hearing about it secondhand through another source.[/quote]
While we some of us have issues with Steve, has anybody actually e-mailed him or spoken to him face to face (maybe at a convention) to question his credibility? [/quote]
Um, let the "old timers" from ATGS direct you to the Google archives for some of Mr. Beverly's screw ups(cough cough)! [/quote]
Um, Matt **is** one of the "old-timers" from ATGS (having posted a good six years before I started posting there).
Doug -- soon to celebrate 300 posts
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 10:19 AM\'] I have no problem with his credibility. He's every bit as credible as Chris Lambert, Marc Green, myself or anyone else who maintains a personal web site devoted to game shows. My point is that while he certainly puts more hours into his hobby than the rest of us do, he's just a fan with some bandwidth. He reads press releases, offers opinions and occasionally makes mistakes, just like the rest of us do. If you see something on his site, it's probably legit but it is not necessarily "official". [/quote]
What he also has is a hunger for fame and the know-how to manipulate the media into thinking that he IS the ranking expert in the genre, moreso than the names you mention. (Who, IMO, would kick his ass any day of the week and twice on Sunday.)
It's kinda like watching James Lipton on "Inside The Actor's Studio" on Bravo. Patton Oswald hit the nail right on the head....the man has the STENCH of FAILED ACTOR emanating from every pore on his body. So now he's the dean of this school, and he schmoozes his way into this TV show so he can still Be A Part Of It. The Perfesser is the same thing. He didn't get to be Robert Q. Lewis, so he needs to be close to The Scene.
Now, I don't have a problem with this, if he's that hungry for the spotlight, he can have it, but I have enough questions about his integrity that I don't want him representing me, and that's what he's doing every time he fools one of these national news outlets into using him for a sound byte on a story.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 11:44 AM\']
Sorry, Steve, but KCAL is an independent. Chris C. could tell you which station in LA is the UPN affil. :)
[/quote]
Maybe I'll give it a try. Even though Viacom [CBS] owns Channel 9 in Los Angeles, its UPN programming airs on KCOP-Channel 13, owned by Fox, which not only also owns Channel 11, but also owns UPN affiliates in addition to Fox stations in New York [Fox-5, UPN-9] and Chicago [Fox-32, UPN-50]. I think Rupert had a package deal of sorts involving the UPN affiliations in those top 3 cities.
OBGAMESHOW: KCOP's old studios were home to Barry & Enright's Tic Tac Dough and Joker's Wild from the late '70s through the mid-'80s.
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[quote name=\'byrd62\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 12:12 PM\'] [quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 11:44 AM\']
Sorry, Steve, but KCAL is an independent. Chris C. could tell you which station in LA is the UPN affil. :)
[/quote]
Maybe I'll give it a try. Even though Viacom [CBS] owns Channel 9 in Los Angeles, its UPN programming airs on KCOP-Channel 13, owned by Fox, which not only also owns Channel 11, but also owns UPN affiliates in addition to Fox stations in New York [Fox-5, UPN-9] and Chicago [Fox-32, UPN-50]. [/quote]
I had thought Disney owned KCAL. Or am I off base for the 478th time?
And as to why Mark suggested that Chris C. make the post, there's an in-joke in there somewhere.
Doug -- soon to celebrate 300 posts
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 01:59 PM\']I had thought Disney owned KCAL. Or am I off base for the 478th time?[/quote]
From what I heard, Disney used to own KCAL, but they sold it a number of years ago; I'd say it was probably around the time they bought ABC -- that would've given them channels 7 and 9 in L.A., and IIRC, at that time it was still a no-no for a major network (KCAL would've become an ABC O&O through the aforementioned merger) to own two stations in one market.
To get this thread back on its original topic, I STILL say H2 should be renewed instead of cancelled! Unlike Davidson's version and the MG/HS Hour, it is AS GOOD AS the Marshall original, so it should be allowed to stick around for AT LEAST AS LONG AS the Marshall original did, regardless of cost AND ratings! I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season!
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Wow. I'm not THAT enthusiastic about RENEWING the show, and I KNOW people who WORK on it.
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:43 PM\'] [quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 01:59 PM\']
To get this thread back on its original topic, I STILL say H2 should be renewed instead of cancelled! Unlike Davidson's version and the MG/HS Hour, it is AS GOOD AS the Marshall original, so it should be allowed to stick around for AT LEAST AS LONG AS the Marshall original did, regardless of cost AND ratings! I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season! [/quote]
With a theory like that, you'd be laughed out of every TV executive's office in this country.
Do the show regardless of cost? They've already scaled down the bonus round prizes...instead of a $20,000 car, you now play for a $10,000 vacation on the first try. Second try is $10,000 cash instead of $25,000. At this rate, by next season, we'd have a bargain-basement H2, where the car offered is a Kia Rio. Why the hell would you WASTE, yes waste, money on a show when you're losing your audience, so now you lose money AND viewers. That's a double whammy, no pun intended. It makes absolutely no sense.
Also, I hate to bear bad news, but I don't think King World will touch Oprah or Dr. Phil, considering they're the two highest-rated talk shows. I don't watch neither one, but I know a hit show when I see it.
Am I sorry that H2 is being sacrificed for an unnecessary "ET" clone? Yes, but I enjoyed the six years it had, and I will move on with my life.
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 12:43 PM\'] regardless of cost AND ratings![/quote]
And this, for the 47,223rd time, is why you will never (and should never) work in television.
Your heart is in the right place. Love the heart. You need to catch your brain up with it.
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:43 PM\'] [quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 01:59 PM\']I had thought Disney owned KCAL. Or am I off base for the 478th time?[/quote]
From what I heard, Disney used to own KCAL, but they sold it a number of years ago; I'd say it was probably around the time they bought ABC -- that would've given them channels 7 and 9 in L.A., and IIRC, at that time it was still a no-no for a major network (KCAL would've become an ABC O&O through the aforementioned merger) to own two stations in one market.
To get this thread back on its original topic, I STILL say H2 should be renewed instead of cancelled! Unlike Davidson's version and the MG/HS Hour, it is AS GOOD AS the Marshall original, so it should be allowed to stick around for AT LEAST AS LONG AS the Marshall original did, regardless of cost AND ratings! I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season! [/quote]
I think you've made your damn point by now. Will you stop with the unnecessary underlining, boldfacing, and capital letters?
Also, to further dispute your point, "Tattletales" syndicated version was just as good as its daytime counterpart. Should "Tattletales" have stuck around? Probably not, the ratings were more than likely mediocre, and the syndicator and/or Goodson-Todman didn't see any reason to continue with the project.
Furthermore, why would you cancel two of the top 15 shows in syndication, for a show that, AFAIK, isn't even in the top 40? That's the most ridiculous prospect I've heard--since Henke proposed a NASCAR trivia game for national syndication. Get over it, Thad. The show is cancelled.
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 03:43 PM\'] To get this thread back on its original topic, I STILL say H2 should be renewed instead of cancelled! Unlike Davidson's version and the MG/HS Hour, it is AS GOOD AS the Marshall original, so it should be allowed to stick around for AT LEAST AS LONG AS the Marshall original did, regardless of cost AND ratings! I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season! [/quote]
Always nice to see our members take the time to learn how to use the code buttons.
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I don't think those are the only buttons he learned to push.
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[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 10:55 AM\']
And this all stems from its rule changes, I assume....
I knew that going to a "Best 2-out-of-3" idea was gonna hurt the show's ratings!
No, as others have pointed out, the show's fate was pretty much sealed after the CBS O&Os announced plans to carry that ET spinoff show starting next fall.
And if anything, the 2-out-of-3 match format helped the show, not hurt it...made for faster gameplay, combined w/the dumping of those time-consuming "Behind the Squares" bumpers going into breaks.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby") [/quote]
Here's what I think is the problem with the current format: When you go to a best 2-out-of-3 format, it may make for faster game play and it may help the show's ratings, but that leads to something many of us like to call "Cliff-Hangers" (as in "To Be Continued....").
I'm not, I repeat, I AM NOT the Cliff-Hangers kind of guy. I'm the Open-Ended kind of guy. AAMOF, the past 5 seasons had 100% Open-Ended shows.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 04:46 PM\'] [quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 10:55 AM\']
And this all stems from its rule changes, I assume....
I knew that going to a "Best 2-out-of-3" idea was gonna hurt the show's ratings!
No, as others have pointed out, the show's fate was pretty much sealed after the CBS O&Os announced plans to carry that ET spinoff show starting next fall.
And if anything, the 2-out-of-3 match format helped the show, not hurt it...made for faster gameplay, combined w/the dumping of those time-consuming "Behind the Squares" bumpers going into breaks.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby") [/quote]
Here's what I think is the problem with the current format: When you go to a best 2-out-of-3 format, it may make for faster game play and it may help the show's ratings, but that leads to something many of us like to call "Cliff-Hangers" (as in "To Be Continued....").
I'm not, I repeat, I AM NOT the Cliff-Hangers kind of guy. I'm the Open-Ended kind of guy. AAMOF, the past 5 seasons had 100% Open-Ended shows. [/quote]
I understand where you're coming from. Personally, I'd like to see at least one bonus round played per episode, but that's just me. However, the "TO BE CONTINUED" factor adds something major for game shows: suspense. With that, you're making viewers wait another 24 hours to see if the contestant will be able to go for it all the next day, which is one reason I loved the straddles on ABC Millionaire, esp. when it was before a million dollar or high stakes question. I know that's a serious exaggeration, but you get where I'm coming from.
As I said earlier, I think the 2/3 rule was a very good idea, being the game dragged miserably, and I think that's what led to the ratings dwindle. How many times can you watch the same two people play a game of tic-tac-toe and it still remain exciting? And you can see the producers tried their best to fill in the time, i.e. "Behind the Squares," longer bonus rounds, etc, and it still didn't do too much. Honestly, most of the self-contained matches were anti-climatic when a contestant hit $4,000 (winning 3 games). H2 is one of those shows where being self-contained is unnecessary (is Lingo another?).
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:46 PM\'] I'm not, I repeat, I AM NOT the Cliff-Hangers kind of guy. I'm the Open-Ended kind of guy. AAMOF, the past 5 seasons had 100% Open-Ended shows. [/quote]
Is that so? I never would have known.
(You need to clean up your terminology here. We refer to the practice of a match spreading over more than one show as "straddling", and to call a show that does not do that "open-ended" is pretty much the exact opposite of what you mean. Try "self-contained."
Oh, and expect to get a fair amount of crap for that, since marching in here and saying "Ya know, I like game shows that are self-contained better than shows that straddle" is roughly equal to saying "You know, Patrick Wayne should get the TPiR gig once Barker retires! He was GOOD on TTD '90!" That's not to say you're not ENTITLED to that opinion, but I don't see very many people agreeing with it.)
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:55 PM\'][quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:43 PM\']
To get this thread back on its original topic, I STILL say H2 should be renewed instead of cancelled! Unlike Davidson's version and the MG/HS Hour, it is AS GOOD AS the Marshall original, so it should be allowed to stick around for AT LEAST AS LONG AS the Marshall original did, regardless of cost AND ratings! I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season! [/quote]
With a theory like that, you'd be laughed out of every TV executive's office in this country. [/quote]
NO, I WOULD NOT! I would be doing so very well every TV executive in the country would start to worship me and put up a picture of me somewhere in their office!
Do the show regardless of cost? They've already scaled down the bonus round prizes...instead of a $20,000 car, you now play for a $10,000 vacation on the first try. Second try is $10,000 cash instead of $25,000. At this rate, by next season, we'd have a bargain-basement H2, where the car offered is a Kia Rio.
That's what you think! I envision a seventh season of H2 going like this:
Matches are still straddled, but now use a Password Plus-style scoring system: up to four games per match with the first two games worth $1,000 each and the third and fourth games worth $2,000 each; the second $1,000 game of each match is still a Secret Square game, with the progressive jackpot from seasons 2-5 reinstated; first player to amass $3,000 or more wins the match and plays the bonus round.
In your first crack at the bonus round, you once again play for a $20,000+ car!
If won, your next crack is worth $25,000 in cash once again!
If won that time, your next crack after that is worth $50,000!
If you win on that level, then it's on to $75,000!
And then, once you win that amount, every crack you get after that is worth $100,000!!!
A bit like what it was in season 5, except this time there is no vacation involved. And yes, you could get more than one crack at the $100K this time; that's because, just like Jeopardy! started doing this season, contestants would no longer have to retire after winning five matches; they could keep right on playing as long as they keep winning! THE SKY'S THE LIMIT ON H2 AND JEOPARDY!
Also, I hate to bear bad news, but I don't think King World will touch Oprah or Dr. Phil, considering they're the two highest-rated talk shows. I don't watch neither one, but I know a hit show when I see it.
In 1976, another game show that used nine celebrities and had a host named Tom, got high ratings yet it got the ax after all of 15 weeks. Has any talk show in TV history ever met a similar fate? Oprah and Dr. Phil would be the first two, if not. If King World would rather see them stay on, however, I can only think of one other way to cover production costs on H2: sell the syndication rights for Oprah and Dr. Phil to another syndicator and do it for a whole heap of money!
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I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season!
With a theory like that, you'd be laughed out of every TV executive's office in this country.
In my opinion, renewing H2 is a good idea, but sacrifying King World's cash cows isn't a good idea.
If KW did cancel Oprah and/or Dr. Phil, just to keep H2 on the air, chances are that Tom Bergeron and, maybe, Peter Marshall would get death threats from Oprah or Dr. Phil viewers.
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[quote name=\'rugrats1\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 06:36 PM\']
I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season!
With a theory like that, you'd be laughed out of every TV executive's office in this country.
In my opinion, renewing H2 is a good idea, but sacrifying King World's cash cows isn't a good idea.
If KW did cancel Oprah and/or Dr. Phil, just to keep H2 on the air, chances are that Tom Bergeron and, maybe, Peter Marshall would get death threats from Oprah or Dr. Phil viewers. [/quote]
BTW, Dr. Phil is distributed by Paramount, not King World.
Unfortunately, in the Lexington market, HS hasn't been seen in 3 years, going back to Whoopi's last season. So I can't comment on it's quality, but personally, most games which rely on celebrities are not my cup of tea (Pyramid included). I think H2 is just another show that has run its course.
Tyshaun
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 06:36 PM\'] NO, I WOULD NOT! I would be doing so very well every TV executive in the country would start to worship me and put up a picture of me somewhere in their office! [/quote]
Your picture would be used as the target of a dartboard by your station's ownership.
I envision a seventh season of H2 going like this:
Matches are still straddled, but now use a Password Plus-style scoring system: up to four games per match with the first two games worth $1,000 each and the third and fourth games worth $2,000 each; the second $1,000 game of each match is still a Secret Square game, with the progressive jackpot from seasons 2-5 reinstated; first player to amass $3,000 or more wins the match and plays the bonus round.
In your first crack at the bonus round, you once again play for a $20,000+ car!
If won, your next crack is worth $25,000 in cash once again!
If won that time, your next crack after that is worth $50,000!
If you win on that level, then it's on to $75,000!
And then, once you win that amount, every crack you get after that is worth......
$100,000!!![/b]
Another case of "let's toss all the money in the world at a show and it'll fix itself" AKA Dixon's Game Theory.
In 1976, another game show that used nine celebrities and had a host named Tom, got high ratings yet it got the ax after all of 15 weeks. Has any talk show in TV history ever met a similar fate? Oprah and Dr. Phil would be the first two, if not. If King World would rather see them stay on, however, I can only think of one other way to cover production costs on H2: sell the syndication rights for Oprah and Dr. Phil to another syndicator and do it for a whole heap of money!
You want to be in the TV biz yet you know nothing about it.
Oprah and Dr. Phil are cash cows for their respective syndicators. Why sacrifice any highly rated shows for a show which has been sagging in ratings for 2 or 3 seasons? If KW sold the syndication rights to Oprah to salvage H2, they would be chastized more than we're chastizing you for your insane ideas.
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 04:36 PM\'] NO, I WOULD NOT! I would be doing so very well every TV executive in the country would start to worship me and put up a picture of me somewhere in their office!
[/quote]
Now you're simply insane.
In your first crack at the bonus round, you once again play for a $20,000+ car!
If won, your next crack is worth $25,000 in cash once again!
If won that time, your next crack after that is worth $50,000!
If you win on that level, then it's on to $75,000!
And then, once you win that amount, every crack you get after that is worth......
$100,000!!![/b]
And you plan to pay for this by selling off your two biggest cash cows.
Tell me one thing, and answer me seriously, and use your head when you think about this:
WHY IN THE BLUE HELL SHOULD KING WORLD DO THAT?
Let's see, I can either keep the two shows on the air that are making buttloads of money for me, or I can sell them off and take a gamble on a game show that isn't even pulling threes.
Now, c'mon. use your head and tell me what possible business gain King World stands to make from that.
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NO, I WOULD NOT! I would be doing so very well every TV executive in the country would start to worship me and put up a picture of me somewhere in their office!
...and I thought LA was the land of fantasy. As I'm sure the members of this board (and you know who you are) who actually *work* on H2 want the show to go on, reality (not the kind on TV, mind you) sets in and shows get cancelled all the time in this town. I was working on a non-game show that was cancelled before it even aired. Top That!
I remember the anger I felt when CBS cancelled "Now You See It" and NBC got rid of "Classic Concentration". I was a younger person and at the time it didn't make sense to me. "Why did they cancel my favorite game" I would keep asking myself. Instead of moping about it and wearing all black, I went on with my life, got my driver's license and discovered girls! (That's another game show in and of itself)
We all have feelings... it's the way we convey them that makes it interesting.
To all at Hollywood Squares: Thank you for six years.
JOSH
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 06:36 PM\'] [quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:55 PM\'][quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:43 PM\']
To get this thread back on its original topic, I STILL say H2 should be renewed instead of cancelled! Unlike Davidson's version and the MG/HS Hour, it is AS GOOD AS the Marshall original, so it should be allowed to stick around for AT LEAST AS LONG AS the Marshall original did, regardless of cost AND ratings! I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season! [/quote]
With a theory like that, you'd be laughed out of every TV executive's office in this country. [/quote]
NO, I WOULD NOT! I would be doing so very well every TV executive in the country would start to worship me and put up a picture of me somewhere in their office!
Do the show regardless of cost? They've already scaled down the bonus round prizes...instead of a $20,000 car, you now play for a $10,000 vacation on the first try. Second try is $10,000 cash instead of $25,000. At this rate, by next season, we'd have a bargain-basement H2, where the car offered is a Kia Rio.
That's what you think! I envision a seventh season of H2 going like this:
Matches are still straddled, but now use a Password Plus-style scoring system: up to four games per match with the first two games worth $1,000 each and the third and fourth games worth $2,000 each; the second $1,000 game of each match is still a Secret Square game, with the progressive jackpot from seasons 2-5 reinstated; first player to amass $3,000 or more wins the match and plays the bonus round.
In your first crack at the bonus round, you once again play for a $20,000+ car!
If won, your next crack is worth $25,000 in cash once again!
If won that time, your next crack after that is worth $50,000!
If you win on that level, then it's on to $75,000!
And then, once you win that amount, every crack you get after that is worth......
$100,000!!![/b]
A bit like what it was in season 5, except this time there is no vacation involved. And yes, you could get more than one crack at the $100K this time; that's because, just like Jeopardy! started doing this season, contestants would no longer have to retire after winning five matches; they could keep right on playing as long as they keep winning! THE SKY'S THE LIMIT ON H2 AND JEOPARDY!
Also, I hate to bear bad news, but I don't think King World will touch Oprah or Dr. Phil, considering they're the two highest-rated talk shows. I don't watch neither one, but I know a hit show when I see it.
In 1976, another game show that used nine celebrities and had a host named Tom, got high ratings yet it got the ax after all of 15 weeks. Has any talk show in TV history ever met a similar fate? Oprah and Dr. Phil would be the first two, if not. If King World would rather see them stay on, however, I can only think of one other way to cover production costs on H2: sell the syndication rights for Oprah and Dr. Phil to another syndicator and do it for a whole heap of money! [/quote]
Thad, Thad, Thad.
Your only burying yourself deeper and deeper, and simply showing a higher level of incompetence by using the various font tags. A huge "$100,000" graphic takes the cake though...that's the largest text I've seen on this board.
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:43 PM\'] From what I heard, Disney used to own KCAL, but they sold it a number of years ago; I'd say it was probably around the time they bought ABC -- that would've given them channels 7 and 9 in L.A., and IIRC, at that time it was still a no-no for a major network (KCAL would've become an ABC O&O through the aforementioned merger) to own two stations in one market. [/quote]
For once, Thad, you got something right: Disney sold KCAL not long after buying ABC. KCAL was sold to Young Broadcasting, which -- after the rules changed to allow duopolies -- then turned around and sold it to Viacom, the current owner.
Unfortunately, that's the only thing you've managed to get right in this entire thread. I won't rehash the myriad of other massive errors you've made regarding H2 and/or the way the TV business works, but I do have to ask one thing. We know you'd pre-empt news, dating shows, Dr. Phil, Oprah, and probably half a dozen other shows for game shows. Were you to run a TV station, is there any show -- any show at all, of any genre -- that you would consider to be more important than game shows?
(To everyone else reading this: I know curiosity killed the cat. Shut up. :-)
- David
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Not that I like to use the death of a beloved show to further my cause, but NOW can we have Caroline on one last time??????? And I think even I sound tame compared to some of the other posts ;-)
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[quote name=\'JMFabiano\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 10:07 PM\'] Not that I like to use the death of a beloved show to further my cause, but NOW can we have Caroline on one last time??????? And I think even I sound tame compared to some of the other posts ;-) [/quote]
No. And only Thad is keeping you from looking totally foolish right now.
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I am very sad to see H2 go. I have my share of happy memories of having gone to tapings (including BOTH Game Show Weeks) and watched the show (and seeing many friends like Jason Hernandez, Mandel Ilegan, Randy West and others). I will see if I can't go to see Tom B. and the gang AT LEAST one last time (maybe I'll see if I can get Tom's autograph and a handshake).
We'll miss ya, Tom.
OBGAMESHOW: KCOP's old studios were home to Barry & Enright's Tic Tac Dough and Joker's Wild from the late '70s through the mid-'80s.
One of my favorite "game show experience" stories took place in THAT very studio. I'll put it up on my blog tonight, which incidentally is at:
this address (http://\"http://www.livejournal.com/~gameshowman\") for those interested in such things.
"Game Show Man" Joe Van Ginkel
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 06:36 PM\'] [quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:55 PM\'][quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:43 PM\']
To get this thread back on its original topic, I STILL say H2 should be renewed instead of cancelled! Unlike Davidson's version and the MG/HS Hour, it is AS GOOD AS the Marshall original, so it should be allowed to stick around for AT LEAST AS LONG AS the Marshall original did, regardless of cost AND ratings! I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season! [/quote]
With a theory like that, you'd be laughed out of every TV executive's office in this country. [/quote]
NO, I WOULD NOT! I would be doing so very well every TV executive in the country would start to worship me and put up a picture of me somewhere in their office!
Do the show regardless of cost? They've already scaled down the bonus round prizes...instead of a $20,000 car, you now play for a $10,000 vacation on the first try. Second try is $10,000 cash instead of $25,000. At this rate, by next season, we'd have a bargain-basement H2, where the car offered is a Kia Rio.
That's what you think! I envision a seventh season of H2 going like this:
Matches are still straddled, but now use a Password Plus-style scoring system: up to four games per match with the first two games worth $1,000 each and the third and fourth games worth $2,000 each; the second $1,000 game of each match is still a Secret Square game, with the progressive jackpot from seasons 2-5 reinstated; first player to amass $3,000 or more wins the match and plays the bonus round.
In your first crack at the bonus round, you once again play for a $20,000+ car!
If won, your next crack is worth $25,000 in cash once again!
If won that time, your next crack after that is worth $50,000!
If you win on that level, then it's on to $75,000!
And then, once you win that amount, every crack you get after that is worth......
$100,000!!![/b]
A bit like what it was in season 5, except this time there is no vacation involved. And yes, you could get more than one crack at the $100K this time; that's because, just like Jeopardy! started doing this season, contestants would no longer have to retire after winning five matches; they could keep right on playing as long as they keep winning! THE SKY'S THE LIMIT ON H2 AND JEOPARDY!
Also, I hate to bear bad news, but I don't think King World will touch Oprah or Dr. Phil, considering they're the two highest-rated talk shows. I don't watch neither one, but I know a hit show when I see it.
In 1976, another game show that used nine celebrities and had a host named Tom, got high ratings yet it got the ax after all of 15 weeks. Has any talk show in TV history ever met a similar fate? Oprah and Dr. Phil would be the first two, if not. If King World would rather see them stay on, however, I can only think of one other way to cover production costs on H2: sell the syndication rights for Oprah and Dr. Phil to another syndicator and do it for a whole heap of money! [/quote]
(sigh) Why am I bothering?
The last two seasons, HS/H2 offered their $100,000 bonus rounds (in the case of the latter, you'd work your way towards $100K). It did nothing for ratings. Honestly, Wheel's ratings haven't really gone up or down since THEY offered the new bonus wheel. Now, unless you're Dr. Evil (or Dr. Demento), how the hell do you expect to pull in viewers, when seasoned producers couldn't even do it?
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 09:46 AM\']
The last two seasons, HS/H2 offered their $100,000 bonus rounds (in the case of the latter, you'd work your way towards $100K). It did nothing for ratings. Honestly, Wheel's ratings haven't really gone up or down since THEY offered the new bonus wheel. Now, unless you're Dr. Evil (or Dr. Demento), how the hell do you expect to pull in viewers, when seasoned producers couldn't even do it? [/quote]
Is the fifth level of this season's bonus round $100K, or has it been lowered? Odds are that no one will win five bonus rounds before the season is out(one lady did win four), but thought I'd ask anyway?
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 09:52 AM\']Is the fifth level of this season's bonus round $100K, or has it been lowered?[/quote]
$50k
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Here's what I think is the problem with the current format: When you go to a best 2-out-of-3 format, it may make for faster game play and it may help the show's ratings, but that leads to something many of us like to call "Cliff-Hangers" (as in "To Be Continued....").
Actually, as Lemon pointed out, what you're referring to is called (in GS terminology) "straddling". And from a ratings standpoint, straddling often gets viewers to come back on the next show; "Time's up for today, will Joe Blow win that new car in the bonus round? Find out tomorrow...".
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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[quote name=\'tyshaun1\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 07:04 PM\']BTW, Dr. Phil is distributed by Paramount, not King World.[/quote]
But KW co-produces the show with Harpo. The Paramount distribution deal is one Viacom division scratching the other. :)
And on my part, thanks to Steve Radosh, Jay Redack, Brian, Tom and the whole KW team (and the Moffitt/Lee and Winkler/Leavitt teams) for six great years. Hope that Steve can get a new show on the air very soon.
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[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 02:11 PM\']
Here's what I think is the problem with the current format: When you go to a best 2-out-of-3 format, it may make for faster game play and it may help the show's ratings, but that leads to something many of us like to call "Cliff-Hangers" (as in "To Be Continued....").
Actually, as Lemon pointed out, what you're referring to is called (in GS terminology) "straddling". And from a ratings standpoint, straddling often gets viewers to come back on the next show; "Time's up for today, will Joe Blow win that new car in the bonus round? Find out tomorrow...".
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby") [/quote]
So, "Cliff-Hangers" is the wrong term? Why does "Straddling" make more sense than "Cliff-Hangers"?
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 01:30 PM\'] So, "Cliff-Hangers" is the wrong term? Why does "Straddling" make more sense than "Cliff-Hangers"? [/quote]
If it makes more sense to you, you can feel free to call it "Anal Chafing" when yer sitting around the house. I'm telling you what the industry terminology is that you should use if you want your post to make sense to US.
If your posts don't make sense to most of us, they're not going to be taken seriously. They might not even get read at all. I'm pretty sure you want neither.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 03:30 PM\'] [quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 02:11 PM\']
Here's what I think is the problem with the current format: When you go to a best 2-out-of-3 format, it may make for faster game play and it may help the show's ratings, but that leads to something many of us like to call "Cliff-Hangers" (as in "To Be Continued....").
Actually, as Lemon pointed out, what you're referring to is called (in GS terminology) "straddling". And from a ratings standpoint, straddling often gets viewers to come back on the next show; "Time's up for today, will Joe Blow win that new car in the bonus round? Find out tomorrow...".
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby") [/quote]
So, "Cliff-Hangers" is the wrong term? Why does "Straddling" make more sense than "Cliff-Hangers"? [/quote]
To quote Chris Lemon: "Cuz."
IMODO, a cliff-hanger is something you'd see more on something like a soap opera. Usually, it's done during the season finale, and viewers must wait until the fall for the resolution, i.e. Who Shot J.R? Do a Google search at through rec.arts.tv...there's been a million posts on them.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 03:29 PM\'] [quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 03:30 PM\'] [quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 02:11 PM\']
Here's what I think is the problem with the current format: When you go to a best 2-out-of-3 format, it may make for faster game play and it may help the show's ratings, but that leads to something many of us like to call "Cliff-Hangers" (as in "To Be Continued....").
Actually, as Lemon pointed out, what you're referring to is called (in GS terminology) "straddling". And from a ratings standpoint, straddling often gets viewers to come back on the next show; "Time's up for today, will Joe Blow win that new car in the bonus round? Find out tomorrow...".
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby") [/quote]
So, "Cliff-Hangers" is the wrong term? Why does "Straddling" make more sense than "Cliff-Hangers"? [/quote]
To quote Chris Lemon: "Cuz."
IMODO, a cliff-hanger is something you'd see more on something like a soap opera. Usually, it's done during the season finale, and viewers must wait until the fall for the resolution, i.e. Who Shot J.R? Do a Google search at through rec.arts.tv...there's been a million posts on them. [/quote]
OK. I'll use "Straddling" from now on.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 03:21 PM\'] And on my part, thanks to Steve Radosh, Jay Redack, Brian, Tom and the whole KW team (and the Moffitt/Lee and Winkler/Leavitt teams) for six great years. Hope that Steve can get a new show on the air very soon. [/quote]
Maybe they can bring back Tic Tac Dough and have Tom host that.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 08:26 PM\'] Maybe they can bring back Tic Tac Dough and have Tom host that. [/quote]
Sometimes I think we should have picture of a large wooden paddle with the following words carved into it.
"TOM BERGERON IS NOT INTERESTED IN A CAREER IN THE GAME SHOW BUSINESS."
And that paddle should be used to beat thoroughly about the head and shoulders anyone who insists on continuing to make suggestions like the above, even though this simple fact has been rehashed in this forum about 5,000 times.
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I know it was doing poor, but this kinda took me by surprise. Well, sorry to see it go.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 10:46 PM\'][quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 08:26 PM\'] Maybe they can bring back Tic Tac Dough and have Tom host that. [/quote]
Sometimes I think we should have picture of a large wooden paddle with the following words carved into it.
"TOM BERGERON IS NOT INTERESTED IN A CAREER IN THE GAME SHOW BUSINESS."
[/quote]
Which is exactly ANOTHER reason why King World ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY MUST KEEP GOING with H2 instead of allowing the stations to replace it with that ET wannabe! I want Tom to be in the game show business FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE! I don't want Tom to be the next Charlie Gibson OR Matt Lauer OR Harry Smith OR David Hartman! I want Tom to be the next BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILL CULLEN!!!!! 'Tis better to KEEP him hosting H2 until he DIES or until he decides he WILL agree to doing other game shows when H2 really has run its course (which it has not yet), whichever occurs first! If I were Tom's agent, I would only let him get another morning show gig on ONE condition: that ALL of Tom's co-hosts on said morning show must ALSO have worked on a game show at some point!
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I would like to think that Don was being a smart-aleck with his response. I'm not quite sure what to think of Thad as being.
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I would like to think that Don was being a smart-aleck with his response. I'm not quite sure what to think of Thad as being.
I'm thinking it might be time to find a way to turn off text formatting on this board.
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 01:01 AM\'][quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 10:46 PM\'][quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 08:26 PM\'] Maybe they can bring back Tic Tac Dough and have Tom host that. [/quote]
Sometimes I think we should have picture of a large wooden paddle with the following words carved into it.
"TOM BERGERON IS NOT INTERESTED IN A CAREER IN THE GAME SHOW BUSINESS."
[/quote]
Which is exactly ANOTHER reason why King World ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY MUST KEEP GOING with H2 instead of allowing the stations to replace it with that ET wannabe! I want Tom to be in the game show business FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE! I don't want Tom to be the next Charlie Gibson OR Matt Lauer OR Harry Smith OR David Hartman! I want Tom to be the next BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILL CULLEN!!!!! 'Tis better to KEEP him hosting H2 until he DIES or until he decides he WILL agree to doing other game shows when H2 really has run its course (which it has not yet), whichever occurs first! If I were Tom's agent, I would only let him get another morning show gig on ONE condition: that ALL of Tom's co-hosts on said morning show must ALSO have worked on a game show at some point![/quote]
Good Lord... I usually stick around and just browse, but I have to say something.
You just don't get it, do you? You just make your self look even more stupid every time you put in a bunch of different sized fonts and bolded words and more of the same bull crap. All it shows is immaturity and not considering the fact that your type is hard to read, hence people will just look over it and ignore your post, which they'll probably do anyways from your (from what I can tell in this thread alone) reputation. Act more mature, take in other's opinions (at the very least with a grain of salt), and stop using the buttons, and, maybe, just maybe, one day you will actually be respected around here. Remember, I said maybe...
I now return to the back lot, ready to pounce again.
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I would like to think that Don was being a smart-aleck with his response. I'm not quite sure what to think of Thad as being.
I'm thinking it might be time to find a way to turn off text formatting on this board.
I'm thinking someone should cut him off and call him a cab. Seriously, it's a shame that H2 is going away. That's the biz. Pyramid is going away; that show was still on? With the supposed lack of "game" shows next season, this would be a good time to start going though my tape collection.
Or not...
JOSH
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"TOM BERGERON IS NOT INTERESTED IN A CAREER IN THE GAME SHOW BUSINESS."
Listen to me, Tom Bergeron.
You say you don't want a career in game shows? OK, fine. Turn the clock back to 1988(?) when Mike Brockman tapped game show emcee Pat Sajak to host a late-night talk show on CBS. Did Sajak quit Wheel of Fortune for this undertaking? No, he did not. Where would Pat Sajak be today if he had?
"Hi, I'm Pat Sajak. You may remember me from the hit game show 'Wheel of Fortune', or not. I want to tell all you insomniacs watching this infomercial at three AM how you can make five, ten, fifteen thousand dollars a week just by placing itty bitty want ads in the newspaper."
Now imagine a guy named Syd driving up to your house in a great big truck. What's in the truck? Why it's a printing press! But this isn't just any old printing press, no sir. It's a SPECIAL printing press. It only prints GREAT, BIG PAYCHECKS. Those paychecks all say "Fremantle" on them. This printing press will run just about forever. All you have to do is show up in 33 a couple of days a week and ask some people "What do you bid?". You wouldn't turn down Syd and his magic printing press now would you? Hmmm? Of course not, because if you do you might wind up like our friend Pat Sajak:
"Hi, I'm Tom Bergeron and I used to have a burgeoning television career. Help keep public television alive here in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Send in a check for five, ten, twenty dollars, whatever you can afford."
OK?
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 11:01 PM\'] yadda YADDA YADDA yadda
[/quote]
I do believe that this is the first time I can, in the history of this bulletin board, make the following post with no concern whatsoever about disciplinary action being taken against me as a result:
Thad, the continually-raising level of your complete and total stupidity amazes me. You have NO clue. None. Zero. Nada. Yer an utter idiot.
(Harvey's gotta be foaming at the mouth right now. :))
AT THE SAME TIME....
[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jan 14 2004, 11:35 PM\']"Hi, I'm Pat Sajak. You may remember me from the hit game show 'Wheel of Fortune', or not. I want to tell all you insomniacs watching this infomercial at three AM how you can make five, ten, fifteen thousand dollars a week just by placing itty bitty want ads in the newspaper."[/quote]
"More money than you could possibly imagine!"
You're preaching to the choir. The man has a natural knack for this, he and Newton could OWN this business for the next 30 years, and I don't know why he doesn't want to make a living from it, but all indications and quotes from the horse's mouth and people close to the horse in question have indicated that it's not the career path he wishes to take. So until he says otherwise, we should assume he's Not Available.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 01:35 AM\']
"TOM BERGERON IS NOT INTERESTED IN A CAREER IN THE GAME SHOW BUSINESS."
Listen to me, Tom Bergeron.
You say you don't want a career in game shows? OK, fine. Turn the clock back to 1988(?) when Mike Brockman tapped game show emcee Pat Sajak to host a late-night talk show on CBS. Did Sajak quit Wheel of Fortune for this undertaking? No, he did not. Where would Pat Sajak be today if he had?
"Hi, I'm Pat Sajak. You may remember me from the hit game show 'Wheel of Fortune', or not. I want to tell all you insomniacs watching this infomercial at three AM how you can make five, ten, fifteen thousand dollars a week just by placing itty bitty want ads in the newspaper."
Now imagine a guy named Syd driving up to your house in a great big truck. What's in the truck? Why it's a printing press! But this isn't just any old printing press, no sir. It's a SPECIAL printing press. It only prints GREAT, BIG PAYCHECKS. Those paychecks all say "Fremantle" on them. This printing press will run just about forever. All you have to do is show up in 33 a couple of days a week and ask some people "What do you bid?". You wouldn't turn down Syd and his magic printing press now would you? Hmmm? Of course not, because if you do you might wind up like our friend Pat Sajak:
"Hi, I'm Tom Bergeron and I used to have a burgeoning television career. Help keep public television alive here in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Send in a check for five, ten, twenty dollars, whatever you can afford."
OK?[/quote]
You hear that, Tom? This man who is giving you this advice, has had many years of experience in the field, just like you (albeit in a different position, of course). If you don't do as this guy says after H2 tapes its last show for the season, YOU'LL BE SORRY!
And I say "last show for the season" because, mark my words, H2 WILL be back next season, contrary to everything that has been reported earlier in this thread! And, to borrow a line from the opening to Whammy! The All New Press Your Luck, H2 will be "BIGGER AND BETTER THAN EVER!" So much so that, it'll make everyone outside of this group forget that John Davidson's version of HS (or the MG/HS Hour, for that matter) ever existed! Got that?
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 12:05 AM\'] So much so that, it'll make everyone outside of this group forget that John Davidson's version of HS...ever existed! [/quote]
I've been trying to do that for years anyhow.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 01:12 AM\']
I would like to think that Don was being a smart-aleck with his response. I'm not quite sure what to think of Thad as being.
I'm thinking it might be time to find a way to turn off text formatting on this board. [/quote]
I don't want to tell you what to do--but perhaps we should just remove idiots such as this....
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[quote name=\'SplitSecond\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 01:09 AM\'] I would like to think that Don was being a smart-aleck with his response. [/quote]
I can confirm that he was. Chris, that paddle is painful.
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[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 03:05 AM\'] <Jumbo snip> [/quote]
Wow. We know that there is a 99.9% chance that H2 is cancelled, yet you continue to spout out that it "WILL BE BACK NEXT SEASON?"
Let's just say that if it is, I'll go on a voluntary month's stay in the Isolation Booth.
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[quote name=\'SplitSecond\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 01:09 AM\'] I would like to think that Don was being a smart-aleck with his response. I'm not quite sure what to think of Thad as being. [/quote]
Whatever it is, the word "smart" has nothing to do with it. :-)
But I'm starting to think that Thad has some of us wrapped around his finger. I find it hard to believe anyone could be that stupid and really mean it.
ObGameShows: I need to graduate so I can start getting some shows back on the air.
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 12:32 AM\'] I'm thinking someone should cut him off and call him a cab. [/quote]
OK, he's a cab. <ducking> Ouch. <didn't see the slider coming>
Doug -- soon to celebrate 300 posts
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 07:49 AM\'] But I'm starting to think that Thad has some of us wrapped around his finger. I find it hard to believe anyone could be that stupid and really mean it.
[/quote]
I don't, but the possibility certainly exists, so you've heard the last about this particular matter from me. :)
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 01:12 AM\'] I'm thinking it might be time to find a way to turn off text formatting on this board. [/quote]
I'm thinking that I agree with you.
Another option may be to send him either to the isolation booth, or send him packing.
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Let me at least attempt to get things back on topic by saying that H2 was a great revival...every season except the 4th brought some improvements, and it only got better when Whoopi left...Henry Winkler and Michael Levitt really turned the show around, even if it ended up being too little too late.
Tom Bergeron proved himself to be one of the best GS finds of the decade, and while I understand his not wanting a career in the biz (when an Early Show replacement for Bryant Gumbel was sought 2 yrs ago, Tom's "con" in a pros/cons article about the potential candidates was "He's a *GS host*, for goodness sakes"), if he ever changed his mind, I'd love to see him do another show.
As for the celebrity bookings, even I was impressed...before Celeb WWtBaM came along, where else would you see such high-caliber stars as Garth Brooks, Pamela Anderson, Cindy Crawford, the entire Baldwin family, Carol Burnett, Robin Williams, Billy Crystal, Ray Romano, et al?
So to the cast/crew, you can be proud of yourselves for putting together a damn good show...6 years is nothing to shake a stick at, and once again, it's twice as long as Davidson's version lasted...if producers ever needed a guidebook on how to revive a classic GS, this would be it.
Farewell, H2...we'll miss you.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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"Game show host" is as attractive a career choice as "alchemist to the king" or "royal blacksmith" these days.
I really don't blame Tom if he thinks his fortunes lie elsewhere, in spite of Chris C.'s outright plea to continue down this path. I really don't see anyone lobbying for another show for Donny Osmond just yet... the experience has merely proved he can handle this sort of format, and perhaps he'll go back to singing or doing "Joseph/Dreamcoat" somewhere (pray he hasn't forgotten the words to "Go Go Go Joseph").
And Thad.... you've really lost your grip, as your messages here and in the Pyramid cancellation thread attest to. Accept it, and move on.
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Here's another thing I didn't like about H2:
The contestants had to STAND instead of sit. Don't Winkler and Leavitt know that contestants who stand for 30 minutes get tired?
Heck, if I got on the show (and having learned it's gonna be shown the door, that won't happen), and had to stand for 30 minutes, I would get tired!
Anyone else?
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 07:38 PM\'] Here's another thing I didn't like about H2:
The contestants had to STAND instead of sit. Don't Winkler and Leavitt know that contestants who stand for 30 minutes get tired? [/quote]
This makes no difference in how the game is played. I have never understood this point.
Brandon Brooks
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 07:38 PM\'] Here's another thing I didn't like about H2:
The contestants had to STAND instead of sit. Don't Winkler and Leavitt know that contestants who stand for 30 minutes get tired?
[/quote]
That did indeed break a long-standing tradition of Squares in having the players stand instead of sit. However, J! players stand that long during tapings(the Fleming versions had players seated save for the bonus of the late 70s revival), as do WOF players.
Obsquares: KYW, in its infinite wisdom, decided that an Eagles pep rally was more important than Squares tonight(which I guess it is), and preempted it for the rally. When will the Eagles' playoff season bleep off and die, as Philly sports teams have lost in the playoffs for 21 years....
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It doesn't make any difference in game play, but the contestants look better when they SIT, which is what the contestants did in the Marshall and Davidson versions, and the first 4 seasons of the Bergeron version.
Heck, I saw your episodes, Brandon, and you SAT during the front game. The only time you stood was during the Double Or Nil bonus round.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 07:38 PM\'] Here's another thing I didn't like about H2:
The contestants had to STAND instead of sit. Don't Winkler and Leavitt know that contestants who stand for 30 minutes get tired? [/quote]
This makes no difference in how the game is played. I have never understood this point.
Brandon Brooks
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[quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 07:46 PM\'] [quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 07:38 PM\'] Here's another thing I didn't like about H2:
The contestants had to STAND instead of sit. Don't Winkler and Leavitt know that contestants who stand for 30 minutes get tired? [/quote]
This makes no difference in how the game is played. I have never understood this point.
Brandon Brooks [/quote]
People in the studio having fun = viewers watching having fun
People in the studio sending out good vibes = viewers receiving good vibes
Viewer feels something for people on screen = people on screen doing their jobs to the utmost (game shows ARE about empathy with those featured)
People on screen display signs of discomfort = viewer therefore feels for those experiencing discomfort.
If a game show viewer wants what's best for those featured on the show, it only goes to show that the people at the show have gotta be doing something right
(BTW, it can make a lot of difference to how the game is played. Celebs being relaxed in their squares could make them more inclined to take part in the spirit of fun that the game is about. If they were tired and wanted to get the hell out of there, it just wouldn't be the same show
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[quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 06:54 PM\'] [quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 07:38 PM\'] Here's another thing I didn't like about H2:
The contestants had to STAND instead of sit. Don't Winkler and Leavitt know that contestants who stand for 30 minutes get tired? [/quote]
This makes no difference in how the game is played. I have never understood this point.
Brandon Brooks [/quote]
I know it doesn't make any difference in game play, but it does make a difference on if the contestants get tired from standing for a half hour.
See the post that talks about your appearance, Brandon.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 05:58 PM\'] I know it doesn't make any difference in game play, but it does make a difference on if the contestants get tired from standing for a half hour.
[/quote]
I can honestly say that in fifty-five combined man-years of watching Wheel Of Fortune, Jeopardy, and the last couple seasons of Squares, (in ADDITION to the MANY other shows that have contestants standing behind a podium for the duration of the program), I have NEVER EVER EVER seen a contestant complain of being tired. I have never seen a contestant LOOK tired.
My GOD, man! On Weakest Link they had to stand there for A WHOLE HOUR! It's a wonder they didn't DIE!
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 08:21 PM\'] My GOD, man! On Weakest Link they had to stand there for A WHOLE HOUR! It's a wonder they didn't DIE! [/quote]
Episodes of TWL were made in many takes. They only stood for a couple of minutes at a time. Between breaks in taping, they'd sit.
I can't say this for sure about either version that Anne Robinson hosted, but in her autobiography, Australian host Cornelia Frances confirms this of the Oz show
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[quote name=\'CherryPizza\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 07:36 PM\'] Episodes of TWL were made in many takes. They only stood for a couple of minutes at a time. Between breaks in taping, they'd sit.
[/quote]
My point is, ask the lady who works at the supermarket ringing up your groceries 8 hours a day if she has any sympathy for someone who has to stand for a 1/2 hour or an hour, hopped up on adrenaline, and in a position to win lots of cash and prizes. My guess is she won't have much.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 07:58 PM\'] I know it doesn't make any difference in game play, but it does make a difference on if the contestants get tired from standing for a half hour.
See the post that talks about your appearance, Brandon. [/quote]
Chris ended up making my point. WOF and Jeopardy would've bowed a long time ago if standing made a difference.
Brandon Brooks
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It doesn't make any difference in game play, but the contestants look better when they SIT, which is what the contestants did in the Marshall and Davidson versions, and the first 4 seasons of the Bergeron version.
The part about standing doesn't bother me. I'd gladly stand if I could be a contestant on "Squares". I think what would bother me most is the temperature - it's VERY cold in those TV studios, and I usually need some sort of sweater or cardigan unless the indoor temperature is at least 75.
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Well....the studio is cold where you're sitting in the audience....do a little time standing under those hot lights and you'll start feeling like a chicken mcnugget.
They ain't dropping the temp in the studio deliberately...with the one exception being Letterman's show..he keeps the Ed Sullivan Theater at a toasty 55 degrees to help keep the audience alert...personally, i don't think he needs the help from the a.c!
Matt Scott
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[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Jan 16 2004, 09:29 AM\'] Well....the studio is cold where you're sitting in the audience....do a little time standing under those hot lights and you'll start feeling like a chicken mcnugget.
[/quote]
Yes, exactly what I was gonna say. Studios are kept cold because those lights are MISERABLE. Everybody knocks Tony Randall for wearing shades when he did Squares, but I've been there and I complately sympathize with him. :)
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The contestants had to STAND instead of sit. Don't Winkler and Leavitt know that contestants who stand for 30 minutes get tired?
If any contestant had a problem with it, they could have decided not to go on. That never happened. Nor did any contestant express having a problem with it. The rationale was that contestants who stand tend to move about a bit more, and therefore show more energy.
Heck, if I got on the show (and having learned it's gonna be shown the door, that won't happen), and had to stand for 30 minutes, I would get tired!
Then you should try and audition for Millionaire :)
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Jan 15 2004, 07:48 PM\'] Obsquares: KYW, in its infinite wisdom, decided that an Eagles pep rally was more important than Squares tonight(which I guess it is), and preempted it for the rally. When will the Eagles' playoff season bleep off and die, as Philly sports teams have lost in the playoffs for 21 years.... [/quote]
Well, Zach ol' sport, I have a feeling you're going to be seeing the Eagles in the Super Bowl this year.
As for KYW, they're pre-empting Squares on Monday again for one of those Temple University health specials. The last one on orthopedics was very interesting, as my wife has a number of those type problems they could perhaps help her with. But we wonder if KYW's occasional pre-emption of Squares over the years - sometimes for infomercials - helped hasten its demise.
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[quote name=\'bricon\' date=\'Jan 16 2004, 01:45 PM\']
The contestants had to STAND instead of sit. Don't Winkler and Leavitt know that contestants who stand for 30 minutes get tired?
If any contestant had a problem with it, they could have decided not to go on. That never happened. Nor did any contestant express having a problem with it. The rationale was that contestants who stand tend to move about a bit more, and therefore show more energy.
Heck, if I got on the show (and having learned it's gonna be shown the door, that won't happen), and had to stand for 30 minutes, I would get tired!
Then you should try and audition for Millionaire :) [/quote]
Maybe I will try out for that show.
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The contestants had to STAND instead of sit. Don't Winkler and Leavitt know that contestants who stand for 30 minutes get tired?
Never hurt the energy levels of contestants on FF, CS, Wipeout, and other shows.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Jan 16 2004, 04:24 PM\']
The contestants had to STAND instead of sit. Don't Winkler and Leavitt know that contestants who stand for 30 minutes get tired?
Never hurt the energy levels of contestants on FF, CS, Wipeout, and other shows.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby") [/quote]
They stood on Wipeout? Hmm, never saw that show.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 16 2004, 03:58 PM\'] They stood on Wipeout? Hmm, never saw that show. [/quote]
For the number of shows you haven't seen, you sure are quick to make blanket statements.