The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Casey Buck on April 05, 2008, 01:37:12 AM
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Not sure how many of you care about this, but according to golden-road.net, both Joker and Poker Game have been retired from the show.
More info here: http://www.golden-road.net/index.php?topic...g88949#msg88949 (http://\"http://www.golden-road.net/index.php?topic=5314.msg88949#msg88949\")
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I can see why both were ditched.
Joker's concept was already done with Bonus Game & Shell Game, and the Joker board looked kinda tacky. And Poker Game could only offer three-digit prizes; fine for 1975, bad for 2008.
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I can see why Joker got retired. The game's pretty boring. All you're really doing is discarding cards in the hopes that none of them is the Joker.
As for Poker Game, I understand it was fun when it was good, but I think it should've evolved & offered 4-digit prizes just like Clock Game tried to do back in the '80s. Definitely one of my favorittes I'll miss. A 50/50 compromise, so I'll learn to accept it.
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Seems like Joker's been brought back a time or two. I know G-R lists it as being '94, but I think more research would point to late 70s, early 80s. At least that's what ISTR.
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[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' post=\'183302\' date=\'Apr 5 2008, 04:59 AM\']Seems like Joker's been brought back a time or two. I know G-R lists it as being '94, but I think more research would point to late 70s, early 80s. At least that's what ISTR.[/quote]
Hmm. Sure you're not thinking of Hit Me, which seems rather MIA its own self?
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[quote name=\'mrchips\' post=\'183303\' date=\'Apr 5 2008, 06:28 AM\']
Hmm. Sure you're not thinking of Hit Me, which seems rather MIA its own self?[/quote]
Hit Me was retired last season.
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[quote name=\'Craig Karlberg\' post=\'183301\' date=\'Apr 5 2008, 03:59 AM\']
Definitely one of my favorittes I'll miss. A 50/50 compromise, so I'll learn to accept it.
[/quote]
Throw your television out the window. That makes everything better.
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[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' post=\'183302\' date=\'Apr 5 2008, 05:59 AM\']Seems like Joker's been brought back a time or two. I know G-R lists it as being '94, but I think more research would point to late 70s, early 80s. At least that's what ISTR.[/quote]
You think wrongly.
And before you respond to that, please consider that all of our premiere dates come directly out of the show's own records. You can't get a lot better-researched than that.
Also, I'm not going to go revealing why Poker Game and Joker were retired without John's permission, but I will say that no one in this thread has hit on it yet.
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I always thought Mark Jeffries had the best "fix" to Poker Game - play it with three-digit grocery items instead, and offer up the usual ~$5,000 item for an ultimate win. Besides, the whole "pick a prize (you think) that has a lot of 9s in it" wouldn't sound as silly, because people can better quantify a higher priced grocery item versus a higher priced chochke. Just slap a table with the items on it in front of the current price cards, and you're good to go.
-Jason
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Here's my pointless speculation on the retirements...
1. Both games were rarely played in recent years. I'm sure the number of times each game was played in the last two seasons could each be counted on one hand.
2. The less likely of the two--Poker Game would look like crapola in HD. Joker, probably not as much.
I like the Joker "Is the price $xy or $yx?" concept. The rest of Joker, game-wise and aesthetically, looks like it was thrown together by someone in half an hour.
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Without John's permission I'm not going to go revealing why Poker Game and Joker were retired. without John's permission
Fixed for you.
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[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'183318\' date=\'Apr 5 2008, 11:42 AM\']
Also, I'm not going to go revealing why Poker Game and Joker were retired without John's permission, but I will say that no one in this thread has hit on it yet.
[/quote]
Don't tell me THEY got left out in the rain too! ;)
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While many of us would like to think that Joker would be retired for sucking, the continued existence of Pick-A-Number contradicts that theory. Perhaps confusion over/dislike of the "discard" mechanic? ("You win if you got rid of something! And the thing you want to get rid of is almost always a good thing to have when you're playing cards!")
Poker Game stumps me, considering that I thought it was being played much less often due to the aforementioned small-prize issue. I could certainly see the possibility for confusion in explaining its rules, though. (Barker basically had it down to "pick things with lots of 9s" by the end, didn't he?)
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'183369\' date=\'Apr 6 2008, 01:22 AM\']Poker Game stumps me, considering that I thought it was being played much less often due to the aforementioned small-prize issue.[/quote]
Poker Game isn't a small prize game...
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[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'183374\' date=\'Apr 6 2008, 01:21 AM\']
[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'183369\' date=\'Apr 6 2008, 01:22 AM\']Poker Game stumps me, considering that I thought it was being played much less often due to the aforementioned small-prize issue.[/quote]
Poker Game isn't a small prize game...
[/quote]
Come on. You know what he meant.
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Thank you.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'183375\' date=\'Apr 6 2008, 04:23 AM\'][quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'183374\' date=\'Apr 6 2008, 01:21 AM\'][quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'183369\' date=\'Apr 6 2008, 01:22 AM\']Poker Game stumps me, considering that I thought it was being played much less often due to the aforementioned small-prize issue.[/quote]Poker Game isn't a small prize game...[/quote]Come on. You know what he meant.[/quote]
Actually, no. Since "small prize" usually refers to fee games, and since they've been getting played less, that's what I thought of when I read Robert's post, and I couldn't figure out how it would apply to Poker Game. It should have been obvious that wasn't what he meant, but it never occurred to me last night.
(Actually, I'm glad I was wrong -- that seemed like an uncharacteristically stupid thing for Robert to say.)
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And after some sleep, I realize that I do often use the "inside" TPIR terminology--I know that "small-prize" has the meaning that Steve was referring to, for instance. So yeah, no big deal.
(See what Poker Game has done? No wonder they've retired it!)
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As I understood it, Joker's main advantage for the show was that it didn't involve any mechanics or electronics and could be used as a last-minute substitute if a small prize for prize package game board was having problems. Do they now just dump the small prize game or are they going to come up with another one that doesn't require mechanics or electronics?
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'183550\' date=\'Apr 8 2008, 12:51 PM\']
Do they now just dump the small prize game or are they going to come up with another one that doesn't require mechanics or electronics?
[/quote]
Shell Game would fit this bill, although I believe it times out longer than Joker. Steve...?
-Jason
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[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'183554\' date=\'Apr 8 2008, 12:27 PM\']
[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'183550\' date=\'Apr 8 2008, 12:51 PM\']
Do they now just dump the small prize game or are they going to come up with another one that doesn't require mechanics or electronics?
[/quote]
Shell Game would fit this bill, although I believe it times out longer than Joker. Steve...?
-Jason
[/quote]
It's a little bit more complicated to set up than Shell Game (because it has to be plugged in -- how complex can the electronics be to light up one bulb separately from three others?), but it seems like Bonus Game would fit the bill time-wise.
Edit to add: Given what's been shot down already in terms of theory, could they have been retired at Drew's request? Poker game is not easy to explain and Joker is rather counter-intuitive (although that wasn't anything a rephrasing of the rules couldn't have fixed.)
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Re: Timing
Joker and Shell are timed the same.
Bonus is .5 minute shorter.
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[quote name=\'ClockGameJohn\' post=\'183580\' date=\'Apr 8 2008, 01:58 PM\']
Re: Timing[/quote]
"What's the key to comedy, Alex?"
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[quote name=\'Unrealtor\' post=\'183576\' date=\'Apr 8 2008, 04:00 PM\']Edit to add: Given what's been shot down already in terms of theory, could they have been retired at Drew's request? Poker game is not easy to explain and Joker is rather counter-intuitive (although that wasn't anything a rephrasing of the rules couldn't have fixed.)[/quote]
I couldn't have said it better myself, cough cough.
Even if you redo Joker's rules, though (put the joker into your hand to win?), you've got a potential moment of confusion for the host if he's working down to a 50-50 shot. Compare it to Shell Game--chips in front of the shells, that the contestant placed there, are pretty unambiguous markers. But in Joker, you have to remember what position the game started in before you can be sure whether the face-down card is a winner or a loser.
(And yes, I do think it's something that could trip up almost anyone, especially after they've just gone back and forth with "if it's here you win, if it's here you lose".)
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'183587\' date=\'Apr 8 2008, 04:44 PM\'](And yes, I do think it's something that could trip up almost anyone, especially after they've just gone back and forth with "if it's here you win, if it's here you lose".)[/quote]The easy fix there is to do away with the back-and-forth reveal. Script the game so you reveal everything of type A and declare win/loss, either "we'll show you the cards in your hand, if you have the Joker, you win." or "you didn't draw these cards, if you left the Joker behind, no bedroom set for you." (Don't tell me that C: Boondoggle was wrong when I didn't make that my final answer)
I haven't seen a playing of Joker in a while, does the host whittle away the dead cards making sure that the Joker is in fact last, if the game is won?
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'183588\' date=\'Apr 8 2008, 07:50 PM\']I haven't seen a playing of Joker in a while, does the host whittle away the dead cards making sure that the Joker is in fact last, if the game is won?[/quote]
It depended on how Bob felt like doing it that day.
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[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'183318\' date=\'Apr 5 2008, 11:42 AM\']
Also, I'm not going to go revealing why Poker Game and Joker were retired without John's permission, but I will say that no one in this thread has hit on it yet.
[/quote]
Could it be that the Joker face atop the Poker Game was starting to look like Bob Barker in his final TPIR years?
Or that Bob Barker and the word Joker are now synonymous and they are trying to get any reminders of Bob off of the set?
:)
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'183591\' date=\'Apr 8 2008, 09:05 PM\']
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'183318\' date=\'Apr 5 2008, 11:42 AM\']
Also, I'm not going to go revealing why Poker Game and Joker were retired without John's permission, but I will say that no one in this thread has hit on it yet.
[/quote]
Could it be that the Joker face atop the Poker Game was starting to look like Bob Barker in his final TPIR years?
Or that Bob Barker and the word Joker are now synonymous and they are trying to get any reminders of Bob off of the set?
:)
[/quote]
They haven't taken down the "Barker" from the "Bargain Bar" sign yet, have they? (Yeah, I know that Barker's Markers is now Make Your Mark.) Perhaps when Drew has run out of ancient man names to use.
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Could the reason be that they're coming up with a new card game? Maybe a new, better poker game?
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The reason I've been told is 1 word.
Boring.
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' post=\'183714\' date=\'Apr 10 2008, 04:24 AM\']
The reason I've been told is 1 word.
Boring.
[/quote]
There may be two other words in there:
"No Barker".
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As much as I enjoyed Poker Game for having a unique way to use prices, it's certainly a game that inflation has slowly drained the skill out of over the years. Not that it was loaded with skill to begin with (is that washing machine $499 or $500?), but differences of a few hundred dollars are much harder to spot today than they were 30 years ago.
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'183747\' date=\'Apr 10 2008, 02:00 PM\']
differences of a few hundred dollars are much harder to spot today than they were 30 years ago.
[/quote]
Which is exactly why I think Range Game should go to a $500 rangefinder on a $2,000 scale. They let inflation hit the car games, the grocery games, Check Game...why does this one have to sit and be so antiquated? It might make it an exercise in pricing again versus a game of "just hit the button after a few seconds."
-Jason
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[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'183753\' date=\'Apr 10 2008, 02:09 PM\']
[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'183747\' date=\'Apr 10 2008, 02:00 PM\']
differences of a few hundred dollars are much harder to spot today than they were 30 years ago.
[/quote]
Which is exactly why I think Range Game should go to a $500 rangefinder on a $2,000 scale. They let inflation hit the car games, the grocery games, Check Game...why does this one have to sit and be so antiquated? It might make it an exercise in pricing again versus a game of "just hit the button after a few seconds."
-Jason
[/quote]
wouldn't that be the same difficulty? right now isn't it a $150 range on a $600 scale ? the range covers 25% of the scale at any point in time, even with the new rules added
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[quote name=\'pyramid100\' post=\'183823\' date=\'Apr 11 2008, 04:07 PM\']wouldn't that be the same difficulty? right now isn't it a $150 range on a $600 scale ? the range covers 25% of the scale at any point in time, even with the new rules added[/quote]
It's the same blind odds--if you close your eyes and hit the button randomly, your chances of winning are the same. But that's not the same thing as actual difficulty.
Imagine that we expand it further (and make it too easy), with a $5,000 range on a $20,000 scale. Which are you going to have more confidence about: that the car is between $13,000 and $18,000, or (as the game currently works) between $15,500 and $15,650?
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'183606\' date=\'Apr 9 2008, 10:39 AM\']
They haven't taken down the "Barker" from the "Bargain Bar" sign yet, have they? (Yeah, I know that Barker's Markers is now Make Your Mark.) Perhaps when Drew has run out of ancient man names to use.
[/quote]
Hasn't he already? I think he ran out after "Ezekiel Barker".
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Nah...he's used "Bill Cullen" on at least one occasion. And, believe it or not, "Bob Barker". :)
Of course, Ezekiel Barker could be the new 37 hours...a very lame joke designed to give you at least ONE reason to care about an otherwise lame game.
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I would imagine that Joker was retired because it was one of those games that you could play perfectly and still lose: even if you get all 4 prizes right, and discard 4 cards, there was still a chance that the 5th card could be the joker. Annoying, but fixable. There are a couple other games like this, the dreaded Secret X comes to mind. I recently saw an ep from the early 80's and the woman placed her free x in the third column, won an x and placed it in the same column. D'oh. Bob Barker: "that's not where I would have put that." she failed to get third x and obviously lost.
i kind of liked poker game.
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[quote name=\'wiseguy182\' post=\'185095\' date=\'Apr 30 2008, 05:26 AM\']
I would imagine that Joker was retired because it was one of those games that you could play perfectly and still lose: even if you get all 4 prizes right, and discard 4 cards, there was still a chance that the 5th card could be the joker. Annoying, but fixable.
[/quote]
So is Five Price Tags, but that game's been in the rotation for at least 30 years.
I don't think it's annoying. Your odds are dependent upon how much you know about the small prizes they present to you, in both 5PT and Joker. It wouldn't be as entertaining if a complete shutout was possible, spoiling any drama behind the price/Joker reveal.
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[quote name=\'DoorNumberFour\' post=\'185101\' date=\'Apr 30 2008, 08:34 AM\']
So is Five Price Tags, but that game's been in the rotation for at least 30 years.
I don't think it's annoying. Your odds are dependent upon how much you know about the small prizes they present to you, in both 5PT and Joker. It wouldn't be as entertaining if a complete shutout was possible, spoiling any drama behind the price/Joker reveal.
[/quote]
In Five Price Tags, you are selecting car prices, however, so it isn't all luck. (Or at least there's the TPIR illusion of skill.)
Secret X annoys me more than than Joker or even 1/2 Off. If they'd let you do the three-in-a-row up and down (taking the risk with your first earned X that you'll bag the second one) you could rise or fall on your own pricing acumen. Then again, it's kind of an odd, boring game to begin with.
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Five Price Tags also has the "Loyal Friend and True" trick that the last digit is never anything other than 0 or 5 in this game...therefore, you can usually eliminate a couple tags off the top.
I think what did Joker in was being (virtually) strictly harder than Shell Game for no real payoff. When you add Bonus Game to the mix, they really didn't need three games that played out pretty much identically.