The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: calliaume on January 21, 2004, 04:37:45 PM
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I was just thinking about this when someone mentioned the unfairness of TPIR and Hollywood Squares running at the same time in their market.
Most of the younger members of the board haven't had an issue with two great games running against one another -- but older readers certainly have. So I thought I'd pick out a few instances where this occured, and ask which you would have chosen (or which you did choose!) and why.
The first example:
Dates: 3/20/72 - 1/4/74
Shows: The Who, What or Where Game on NBC, Split Second on ABC
My Own Take: I rarely watched the ABC 12-1 p.m. games until NBC scuttled the 3 Ws and moved Jeopardy! out of the noon slot -- I guess I was just a creature of habit, even though I hadn't yet hit age 10. I stuck with Who, What or Where (which was a pretty darn good game).
Late Edit: I should point out that, in retrospect, I would have chosen Split Second, but that's not the way I went in 1973.
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Split Second. Faster, meaner, richer. Better host. Great format. It was an incredible game.
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Great topic starter. :)
I went with SS. At the age I was (not even 10), there was no playalong value for either game for me, but the way the cars were displayed along with the lighted screens behind them was enough to hook me. And Tom Kennedy seemed nice (not that Art James didn't--mind you).
Doug
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Does it count if you're missing one only because you're too lazy to set the VCR?
From recent years: TPIR beats Hollywood Squares, and Jeopardy! beats Win Ben Stein's Money (but only barely, and I'd still watch it during J!'s commercial breaks). I've always found HSq to slip into extended lulls often enough to lose my interest, and WBSM, while a great show, had a pretty low game-playing to everything-else ratio. Final Jeopardy! takes about ten seconds to introduce; the Bo10ToK, more like three or four minutes.
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Shows: The Who, What or Where Game on NBC, Split Second on ABC
Agonizing decision, and I remember having to make it each day. (BTW, whippersnappers, leave any talk about VCRs out of this!)
Back then, in my early teens, I usually favored Split Second for the reasons Robair mentioned, plus the fact that of the two, SS would have a greater number of easier questions. Had I been in my forties then, I probably would have appreciated the more challenging material that The Three W's provided.
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I generally watched "Split Second" by '72. I was already aquainted with the 3W's and wanted to give the new guy a chance. Enjoyed the car starting thing. Rick Rosner did too.
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Any takers on which show I'd have chosen?
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[quote name=\'SplitSecond\' date=\'Jan 21 2004, 05:40 PM\'] Any takers on which show I'd have chosen? [/quote]
Jeopardy? The Price is Right?
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I think we kind of switched back and forth. Both 3W and SS were good solid brain games - just the thing when you're 11.
But I have to give the edge to SS because Tom Kennedy did such a bang-up job hosting this one. He was at his very best here.
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Back in pre-cable 1972 on the North Shore of Boston, TV reception played a part in my decision.
As has been mentioned in previous threads, the Boston network affiliates didn't show network offering during the noon hour. At my house, we were able to get Split Second from WMUR in Manchester, NH. Meanwhile, the Three W's on Boston's WSBK (then a true independent) was (were?) a victim of poor UHF reception.
Esoteric Eric... and even when I saw the Three W's, I'd see a game where at least half the categories were (Art James) "POT LUCK!" (/AJ)
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' date=\'Jan 21 2004, 03:37 PM\'] Shows: The Who, What or Where Game on NBC, Split Second on ABC
In retrospect, I would have chosen Split Second, but that's not the way I went in 1973. [/quote]
Exactly the opposite: I watched SS then, but now I would probably watch WWW.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' date=\'Jan 21 2004, 04:37 PM\'] I was just thinking about this when someone mentioned the unfairness of TPIR and Hollywood Squares running at the same time in their market.
Most of the younger members of the board haven't had an issue with two great games running against one another -- but older readers certainly have. So I thought I'd pick out a few instances where this occured, and ask which you would have chosen (or which you did choose!) and why.
The first example:
Dates: 3/20/72 - 1/4/74
Shows: The Who, What or Where Game on NBC, Split Second on ABC
My Own Take: I rarely watched the ABC 12-1 p.m. games until NBC scuttled the 3 Ws and moved Jeopardy! out of the noon slot -- I guess I was just a creature of habit, even though I hadn't yet hit age 10. I stuck with Who, What or Where (which was a pretty darn good game).
Late Edit: I should point out that, in retrospect, I would have chosen Split Second, but that's not the way I went in 1973. [/quote]
I'd choose "The Parent Game" on my local independent. :)
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I'd choose "The Parent Game" on my local independent. :)
Sorry to burst your bubble, Don, but The Parent Game was a once-a-week gamer at the time; and one of those one-season wonders to boot.
But getting back to the topic. Some of you may recall my telling of being a fan of the original Jackpot on NBC, until late 1974 when I dumped it in favor of The Money Maze on ABC. Same was true two and ¼ years later when I switched from NBC's Shoot For the Stars to ABC's Second Chance.
Cordially (and awating Don's snubbng of me),
Tammy Warner--the 'Nancy Dussaut of the Big Board!'
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My choice was usually "Split Second" by default... because, like Boston, Atlanta's affiliates didn't like to give up their noon news. And the NBC affiliate took it one step further by having local news at noon, then either a movie or talk show (Mike Douglas or Merv Griffin) from 12:30 until 2:00... so there were LOTS of NBC game shows that I only saw on out of town trips if ever.
That being said, there were a couple of years when channel 17, the fledgling independent WJRJ (now Superstation WTBS), did pick up the noon to 1 pm block from NBC, so based on the novelty of that I would watch "Jeopardy!" and "Who, What, or Where." But I believe they had stopped doing that not long after "Split Second" premiered.
Thus my constant refrain when discussing a lot of these 70s shows... everyone all together now... "We didn't get it in Atlanta." :-)
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Well, KPRC didn't have the 3W's because of Midday (news show), so Split Second won by default.
However, (then) KVRL-26 (now KRIV Fox 26) did carry Who What or Where as well as Three on A Match when KPRC was too busy.
Did like the final thinking music off Who What or Where which sounded like something Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass would do.
YES! I did enjoy the car starting round. But @ least Split Second didn't drop balloons or a 4 car winning streak Rosner's shows had!
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Jan 21 2004, 05:21 PM\'] Does it count if you're missing one only because you're too lazy to set the VCR?
[/quote]
VCR in 1972? Way too expensive, my good fellow.
By the way, the winner at my house was The Who, What or Where Game. I began watching Split Second upon the cancellation of The 3Ws.
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For me, it was always "Split Second" -- until "Celebrity Sweepstakes" came along in the same time slot. After that, I usually watched the NBC offering in that time slot, which turned into "Blank Check" and then "Magnificent Marble Machine".
I did watch the finales of "Password" and "Split Second" in 1975 - I destinctly remember the "It's a Brand New Day on ABC" promos - I'm glad one of those promos exists in the trade curcuit!
Other choices I had to make were between CBS and NBC during their morning blocks in the mid'70s. I usually ended up watching the NBC shows.
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Well, if I was alive in 1972, I would definately watch Split Second. Although I have nothing against the 3 W's.... actually I've never seen an episode of it, so I digress...
Heck, if was watching SS, I probably would stick there to watch Password.
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I would have probably picked Split Second, as I've always liked the show and plus Tom Kennedy was always one of my favorite emcees...
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"Split Second." Great show.
"3Ws" was good, but it wasn't one-two on "SS"' pacing, question variety, end game and, of course, Tom Kennedy.
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As a part of the younger generation, I would base my choice off of the respective revivals, SS86 and The Challengers.
Damn, I liked both shows...but I'd have to say Split Second. I think the fast-pace added a lot of drama, which I love in a game show.
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Thus my constant refrain when discussing a lot of these 70s shows... everyone all together now... "We didn't get it in Atlanta." :-)
On a 1997 thread discussing local affiliate pre-emptions, I recal David starting out his reply w/the line "How much bandwidth have you got?". :-)
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jan 22 2004, 08:45 AM\']VCR in 1972? Way too expensive, my good fellow.[/quote]
I suppose HSq and TPIR might've been competing in 1972 . . .
No, I was running more with Curt's comment about the younger board members, especially since I have never seen Split Second, The WWoW Game, The Challengers, etc.
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[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Jan 22 2004, 05:13 PM\']
Thus my constant refrain when discussing a lot of these 70s shows... everyone all together now... "We didn't get it in Atlanta." :-)
On a 1997 thread discussing local affiliate pre-emptions, I recal David starting out his reply w/the line "How much bandwidth have you got?". :-)
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby") [/quote]
And let's flash back to a simpler time -- 7/3/97, to be exact:
I have no idea how to do the Tiny URL thing, but enjoy this classic Usenet bit (http://\"http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&th=96275240a7124451&seekm=19970703223801.SAA17956%40ladder02.news.aol.com&scoring=d#link1\")
Doug -- who wasn't around those parts back in that day, but I enjoyed the read nonetheless
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Jan 22 2004, 05:43 PM\'] I suppose HSq and TPIR might've been competing in 1972 . . . [/quote]
Nope!
Hollywood Squares was on @ 10:30 opposite soap Love of Life.
Price Is Right was on @ 9:30 opposite Concentration.
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[quote name=\'GSWitch\' date=\'Jan 22 2004, 10:56 PM\'] [quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Jan 22 2004, 05:43 PM\'] I suppose HSq and TPIR might've been competing in 1972 . . . [/quote]
Nope!
Hollywood Squares was on @ 10:30 opposite soap Love of Life.
Price Is Right was on @ 9:30 opposite Concentration. [/quote]
The only times when TPIR and Hollywood Squares competed while on networks were 10/4/76-9/29/78, when both aired at 10:30 Eastern. (This is per my own website, which lists the daytime schedules of CBS (http://\"http://www.curtalliaume.com/cbs_day.html\"), NBC (http://\"http://www.curtalliaume.com/nbc_day.html\"), and ABC (http://\"http://www.curtalliaume.com/abc_day.html\").)
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I never seemed to have any conflict problems with two games at the same time in 1972. When TPIR came along (and if I was home to watch it) I'd pick it simply because I felt Concentration was old and tired after so many years (besides, they were still using ORGAN MUSIC!). At 11:30 Split Second was my choice because it was newer than WWW on NBC which I'd seen enough times by then to do without.
The real problem for me then was not being able to watch The Joker's Wild or Three On A Match because the affiliates bumped them. Thank heaven "The Vin Scully Show" (CBS, early 1973) was on where I lived then, and I could catch it most days. It didn't even make the TV Guide listings in the Kansas City Edition.
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And let's flash back to a simpler time -- 7/3/97, to be exact:
I have no idea how to do the Tiny URL thing, but enjoy this classic Usenet bit
Doug -- who wasn't around those parts back in that day, but I enjoyed the read nonetheless
I enjoyed reading the old thread too, and am surprised at the number of big cities that didn't clear all those game shows (and I thought my local affiliates were bad). You can certainly tell where games fit into the grand scheme of things though - I don't think soap operas had anywhere near as many local pre-emtions.
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Jan 22 2004, 10:29 PM\'][quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Jan 22 2004, 05:13 PM\']
Thus my constant refrain when discussing a lot of these 70s shows... everyone all together now... "We didn't get it in Atlanta." :-)
On a 1997 thread discussing local affiliate pre-emptions, I recal David starting out his reply w/the line "How much bandwidth have you got?". :-)
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby") [/quote]
And let's flash back to a simpler time -- 7/3/97, to be exact:
I have no idea how to do the Tiny URL thing, but enjoy this classic Usenet bit (http://\"http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&th=96275240a7124451&seekm=19970703223801.SAA17956%40ladder02.news.aol.com&scoring=d#link1\")
Doug -- who wasn't around those parts back in that day, but I enjoyed the read nonetheless[/quote]
I have to amend my post on that old Google thread--WSNS in either 1974 or 1975 briefly ran "TTTT," I think a year behind the major markets.
And "The Movie Game" ran on WSNS in 1972 after it had ended production, I believe--it was the Larry Blyden shows and WSNS had to insert another Colgate-Palmolive commercial over the one on the tape--some nights, the only national spots that would air on that station.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 08:16 AM\'] I enjoyed reading the old thread too, and am surprised at the number of big cities that didn't clear all those game shows (and I thought my local affiliates were bad). You can certainly tell where games fit into the grand scheme of things though - I don't think soap operas had anywhere near as many local pre-emtions. [/quote]
The bizarre situation is that in the really big cities there were fewer pre-emptions because some or all of the affiliates were network owned-and-operated...but then at the next "level" of city size, suddenly, you'd hit a peak number of pre-emptions, and there would tend to be fewer and fewer pre-emptions as the city got smaller and smaller.
The Tampa soap opera pre-emptions that I'm aware of, to give you some idea: I don't think WTSP ever aired "Edge of Night" after it moved from CBS to ABC (they had a 4:00 movie); WTVT dropped "Search for Tomorrow" near the end of its run on CBS (because they expanded their noon news to 60 minutes); I don't think WFLA/WXFL ever aired "Search" after it moved to NBC (they had various syndicated shows in the 12:30 time slot during those years, most notably "All in the Family" reruns); and due to the 60-minute noon news, WTVT also never aired "Capitol" or "Bold and the Beautiful" (when WTSP became the CBS affiliate in December 1994, "B&B" started airing in Tampa).
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' date=\'Jan 21 2004, 04:37 PM\'] The first example:
Dates: 3/20/72 - 1/4/74
Shows: The Who, What or Where Game on NBC, Split Second on ABC
[/quote]
Living in the west, this was never a problem - ABC aired reruns of The Brady Bunch at 11:30 against WWW; Split Second was on at 12:30, against one of NBC's soaps. (Let's Make a Deal followed at 1:30; I seem to recall All My Children being sandwiched between the two for whatever reason.)
The only choice I remember: 1973, 9:30 AM - The $10,000 Pyramid on CBS vs. Baffle on NBC. (Pyramid got TPIR's spot when TPIR moved to 2:00, paierd first with Hollywood's Talking at 2:30, then the star-studded, big-money Match Game '73.) Actually, I usually switched between the two depending on which one's endgame was in progress. (Things you learn from the EoTVGS: not only did both of these shows premiere on the same day, but they were both cancelled (well, the CBS version of Pyramid, anyway) on the same day as well.)
(And only out west would an early morning game show be interrupted for a special report about baseball - a September Baffle was interrupted near the end of the show to report that Hank Aaron had hit something like his 711th home run, three short of Babe Ruth.)
-- Don
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I would watch Who What Where because it was a far more engaging game with tougher questions. I would, however, flip over to Split Second for the last five minutes each day to see if the contestant won the car.
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[quote name=\'Jim\' date=\'Jan 24 2004, 02:28 PM\'] I would watch Who What Where because it was a far more engaging game with tougher questions. I would, however, flip over to Split Second for the last five minutes each day to see if the contestant won the car. [/quote]
Which would have been easy to do without missing any 3Ws game time since NBC ran a five-minute news update at 12:55pm.
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WWW followed by old Smiley, Edwin Newman.
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Jan 22 2004, 10:29 PM\'] On a 1997 thread discussing local affiliate pre-emptions, I recal David starting out his reply w/the line "How much bandwidth have you got?". :-)
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby") [/QUOTE]
And let's flash back to a simpler time -- 7/3/97, to be exact:
I have no idea how to do the Tiny URL thing, but enjoy this classic Usenet bit (http://\"http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&th=96275240a7124451&seekm=19970703223801.SAA17956%40ladder02.news.aol.com&scoring=d#link1\")
Doug -- who wasn't around those parts back in that day, but I enjoyed the read nonetheless [/quote]
I am really thrilled to seeing Dave Hammett here. He, of course, made his way into the game show business, and we're all thrilled about that.
That was a great thread. You had Mark Jeffries, Chuck Donegan, Curt Alliaume, Zach, the late great Randy Amasia, and me.... those were the kind of discussions that ruled the day back in the good old days of a.t.g-s. Too bad it turned into a trash wallow. But hey, that's why we're here and not there.
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' date=\'Jan 27 2004, 07:29 AM\'] I am really thrilled to seeing Dave Hammett here. He, of course, made his way into the game show business, and we're all thrilled about that.
That was a great thread. You had Mark Jeffries, Chuck Donegan, Curt Alliaume, Zach, the late great Randy Amasia, and me.... those were the kind of discussions that ruled the day back in the good old days of a.t.g-s. Too bad it turned into a trash wallow. But hey, that's why we're here and not there. [/quote]
It really does make me kinda regret not having hooked up with you folks in the past. Ignorance is no excuse (I wasn't even aware of ATGS' existence until 2000), though I'm glad I'm here now.
Doug
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Jan 27 2004, 10:25 AM\'] [quote name=\'davemackey\' date=\'Jan 27 2004, 07:29 AM\'] I am really thrilled to seeing Dave Hammett here. He, of course, made his way into the game show business, and we're all thrilled about that.
That was a great thread. You had Mark Jeffries, Chuck Donegan, Curt Alliaume, Zach, the late great Randy Amasia, and me.... those were the kind of discussions that ruled the day back in the good old days of a.t.g-s. Too bad it turned into a trash wallow. But hey, that's why we're here and not there. [/quote]
It really does make me kinda regret not having hooked up with you folks in the past. Ignorance is no excuse (I wasn't even aware of ATGS' existence until 2000), though I'm glad I'm here now.
Doug [/quote]
It was truly a great place to be......Believe it or not, there was a time that there wasn't really any flaming and/or trolls at all. Sad how it's disintegrated.
Everyone that Dave Mackey has mentioned (and some he hasn't) and including Dave himself, I hold in very high regard - they are some of the best you'll find around to converse with about, as David Hammett might say, "all things game show".
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WTVT also never aired "Capitol" or "Bold and the Beautiful" (when WTSP became the CBS affiliate in December 1994, "B&B" started airing in Tampa).
Sometime in the early-1990s, WTMV ch.32 (now WMOR), then a cheaply-run independent station, carried B&B when it's run on CBS. It moved to WTSP after ch.10 assumed the CBS affiliation.
We never seen "Capitol" or the early B&Bs, though.
Also, for some reason, WTVT has shown CBS's soaps on a day-delay basis (or was it week-delay?). They switched to same-day when CBS moved to ch.10, but I recall the station was showing Friday's CBS soaps overnight, during its final days with ABC.
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That was a great thread. You had Mark Jeffries, Chuck Donegan, Curt Alliaume, Zach, the late great Randy Amasia, and me.... those were the kind of discussions that ruled the day back in the good old days of a.t.g-s. Too bad it turned into a trash wallow. But hey, that's why we're here and not there.
Indeed...and yeah, those were the days...in summer '97, I was just an 18YO kid barely out of HS w/big dreams...nice to know I was considered one of the "big guys" around the former ATGS at such a young age and in such a short time, though. :-)
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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It was truly a great place to be......Believe it or not, there was a time that there wasn't really any flaming and/or trolls at all. Sad how it's disintegrated.
Yeah, but under the circumstances, I can't complain too much. :-)
Everyone that Dave Mackey has mentioned (and some he hasn't) and including Dave himself, I hold in very high regard - they are some of the best you'll find around to converse with about, as David Hammett might say, "all things game show".
Well, thanks...I feel the same way about these aforementioned "old-timers", as well, though we've also picked up some newbies that have since proven themselves worthy of "big league" status like Doug, George, and that guy who announces TPiR when Burton's not on...can't remember his name... :-D
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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Sometime in the early-1990s, WTMV ch.32 (now WMOR), then a cheaply-run independent station, carried B&B when it's run on CBS. It moved to WTSP after ch.10 assumed the CBS affiliation.
WTMV also aired the Family Feud Challenge in 92-93...I recall seeing a FFC ad in an Orlando TVG from Jul 92, where instead of the usual fancy graphic a CBS affiliate might place in such an ad, they had a rather generic-looking "WTMV, Ch. 32" graphic (Orlando's WKMG [Ch. 6] also didn't carry FFC, and no indie or Fox affiliate was willing to clear it, either).
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Jan 27 2004, 05:06 PM\'] WTMV also aired the Family Feud Challenge in 92-93...I recall seeing a FFC ad in an Orlando TVG from Jul 92, where instead of the usual fancy graphic a CBS affiliate might place in such an ad, they had a rather generic-looking "WTMV, Ch. 32" graphic (Orlando's WKMG [Ch. 6] also didn't carry FFC, and no indie or Fox affiliate was willing to clear it, either). [/quote]
Yes, and thanks to Steve for reminding me about "B&B" being on WTMV. I have no excuse for not remembering that, because I was an intern at WTMV while they were running it, in the summer of 1992 (not that I had any direct dealings with either "B&B" or "Family Feud," of course). When I interviewed with the operations manager, he asked, "Do you ever watch the station?" I said, "I watch 'Family Feud' sometimes."
At the end of "Family Feud" and, presumably, "B&B," WTMV would run their own cheaply-produced version of the network ID...they took a "this is CBS" ID, complete with announcer, and wiped to their "V32" logo, with, um, no announcer.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 10:16 AM\'] I don't think soap operas had anywhere near as many local pre-emptions. [/quote]
Houston's KTRK perferred their Million Dollar Movie over The Edge of Night!
Million Dollar Movie began in 1973 @ 3:30. Then they moved it to 3:00 in 1976 to start a 5:00 local news. If they had it @ 3:00 originally, then Houston would've been denied of The $10,000 Pyramid, The Money Maze & You Don't Say!. Million Dollar Movie ended in 1992.
KPRC didn't allow Sunset Beach that it was carried on KTXH-20 (UPN).
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[quote name=\'trainman\' date=\'Jan 23 2004, 11:20 PM\']The bizarre situation is that in the really big cities there were fewer pre-emptions because some or all of the affiliates were network owned-and-operated...but then at the next "level" of city size, suddenly, you'd hit a peak number of pre-emptions, and there would tend to be fewer and fewer pre-emptions as the city got smaller and smaller.
The Tampa soap opera pre-emptions that I'm aware of, to give you some idea: I don't think WTSP ever aired "Edge of Night" after it moved from CBS to ABC (they had a 4:00 movie); WTVT dropped "Search for Tomorrow" near the end of its run on CBS (because they expanded their noon news to 60 minutes); I don't think WFLA/WXFL ever aired "Search" after it moved to NBC (they had various syndicated shows in the 12:30 time slot during those years, most notably "All in the Family" reruns); and due to the 60-minute noon news, WTVT also never aired "Capitol" or "Bold and the Beautiful" (when WTSP became the CBS affiliate in December 1994, "B&B" started airing in Tampa).[/quote]
Back in the 1970's, WTVT aired Search on next-day tape delay at 1 pm; their midday news had always been an hour since the 1960's. When Search... jumped to NBC, it was still on at 12:30, but WFLA/WXFL bumped it off because they, too, had an hour-long midday newscast some years, or news and Archie Bunker reruns other years.
From a game show perspective, WTVT never aired any CBS programming at 10 am, be it Joker's Wild or the 1980's version of Pyramid until the mid-1980's due to the likes of Mike Douglas, John Davidson and Gary Collins, nor did they air any 4 pm shows, like Match Game or TattleTales because of Bonanza reruns or Merv Griffin. What was ironic, though was that by the 1980's, WTVT aired the syndicated Joker's Wild.
WFLA/WXFL bumped Card Sharks at 10 am for Romper Room, then during the noon hour for the news, but, in another bit of irony, they bumped one of NBC's daytime games in the mid-1980's for syndicated reruns of [/I]Card Sharks.
Pre-emptions were all about the money and how stations can make more of it by selling their own ads.