The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: wdm1219inpenna on May 28, 2012, 07:39:27 AM
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For Dice Game, the player is always told "There are no numbers higher than 6 and there are no zeroes in the price."
Why then can it not be said to the player during "Lucky Seven" that there are no zeroes in the price of the car? It seems the practice of having car prices without any zeroes in the price dates back to the mid 1980s, but I'm not totally sure.
Also, if a player can be told "There are no zeroes" in the car price, why can't the player be told in Ten Chances "All prices will always end in zero"? The only reason I can figure now is because of how very tight the show has been with the budget. Still, time constraints seem to be worse all the time, and nothing takes up more time than a player who writes $26, or $439 or $21,483 for possible prices in Ten Chances. For those of us who watch the show regularly, or not so regularly even, knowing in advance the player is going to be wrong really makes Ten Chances one of the most difficult pricing games to endure, and this is why I believe the "zero rule" should come out of the closet. They have eliminated many pricing games that might require even a little bit of thought, to "dumb down" the show, yet they insist on not disclosing the ending in zero rule for Ten Chances. Even if the player knows the last digit, they still may not win the car. It would take a maximum of 2 chances to win the 2 digit prize, and a maximum of 6 chances to win the 3 digit prize, leaving just 2 chances for the car. If they wanted to always include prices that might end in 0 or 5, that would be okay too. Line Em Up gives away the last digit for free, and the first digit. Lucky Seven gives the first digit for free, as does Dice Game and Any Number, so I don't understand why they can't say "The prices of the prizes in this game always end in zero." It would possibly speed the game up a bit, and provide a bit more drama for those of us viewers who are in the know.
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That is an impressively long paragraph there.
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That is an impressively long paragraph there.
Indeed.
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so I don't understand why they can't say "The prices of the prizes in this game always end in zero." It would possibly speed the game up a bit, and provide a bit more drama for those of us viewers who are in the know.
Obviously, you've never budgeted for anything large-scale before.
And the show, IMO, is trying to escape the "Loyal Friend and True" mindset. Good on them.
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Let's use some logic here--the reason Dice Game players are told the numeric restrictions is because 1 to 6 is the range of numbers on a standard 6-sided die.
Also, if a player can be told "There are no zeroes" in the car price, why can't the player be told in Ten Chances "All prices will always end in zero"? The only reason I can figure now is because of how very tight the show has been with the budget. Still, time constraints seem to be worse all the time, and nothing takes up more time than a player who writes $26, or $439 or $21,483 for possible prices in Ten Chances.
Impossible. There is no zero in the emboldened price.
Anyhow, when I was at a TPiR taping in 2001 where a contestant botched Ten Chances, Bob told the audience during the commercial break that the contestant obviously didn't see Ten Chances often to know that all prices end in zero.
For those of us who watch the show regularly, or not so regularly even, knowing in advance the player is going to be wrong really makes Ten Chances one of the most difficult pricing games to endure, and this is why I believe the "zero rule" should come out of the closet.
It would take a maximum of 2 chances to win the 2 digit prize, and a maximum of 6 chances to win the 3 digit prize, leaving just 2 chances for the car.
And I'm sure TPiR likes their budget where it's at without conceivably giving a contestant a potentially guaranteed 1 in 3 chance at a car. (The 1/3 chance is only if there is one certain number for the first digit. If the final price has a 1 and a 2 in it, the likelihood jumps to a more budget-friendly 1/12.)
That is an impressively long paragraph there.
Indeed.
And whoosh.
Do you stay up late at night and think of things to kvetch about here?
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That is an impressively long paragraph there.
With an even-more-impressive lack of content, even!
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Yeah, I don't think contestants should be told about the Zero Rule in 10 Chances. Is it unfortunate that the people who watch the show everyday are either old or just not picked as often? Sure, but that doesn't mean we start handing things out. Besides for the first two prizes in the game, coming up with a reasonable price without knowing the rule should be easy as long as you're in the range.
As for Lucky $even, while they don't have any zeros in the price now, I suppose they can bring that back at anytime. But honestly, how long has it been since anyone has called a zero in Lucky $even anyway? It just doesn't seem like an appealing number, and I think contestants realize how confusing it can be so they avoid it as well.
And the show, IMO, is trying to escape the "Loyal Friend and True" mindset. Good on them.
How so? A viewer is a viewer, right? A show that's been on for forty years does have fans. I'm not saying they should embrace it and mention it everywhere as Bob would, but I don't think they should drop it either.
Let's use some logic here--the reason Dice Game players are told the numeric restrictions is because 1 to 6 is the range of numbers on a standard 6-sided die.
Maybe it's time for the show to adopt one of these. (http://"http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Orange,_10-sided_die.jpg")
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I want the prices in hexadecimal. It will allow them to bring back four-digit car prices for a while, too.
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[quote name='Fedya']
I want the prices in hexadecimal. It will allow them to bring back four-digit car prices for a while, too.
[/quote]
They can always haul out the extra digit for the Viper.
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God, I'm in so much pain right now.
I want the prices in hexadecimal. It will allow them to bring back four-digit car prices for a while, too.
Except you. You I like. "What's the next number in the price of the car?" "C, Drew!"
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Let's use some logic here--the reason Dice Game players are told the numeric restrictions is because 1 to 6 is the range of numbers on a standard 6-sided die.
Maybe it's time for the show to adopt one of these. (http://"http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Orange,_10-sided_die.jpg")
Let's confuse players more and use a 20 sided die while we're at it - LOL
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I think we're on to something here. I think Card Game is in for a radical change, too. I think they should start using a Pinochle deck. :)
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I think we're on to something here. I think Card Game is in for a radical change, too. I think they should start using a Pinochle deck. :)
Make it a Fluxx deck and I'm in. "You also need a baked potato to stop bidding."
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Make it a Fluxx deck and I'm in. "You also need a baked potato to stop bidding."
Tat wuld b a funi.
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That is an impressively long paragraph there.
It certainly was long, I'll give you that.
TPIR does the things they do because that's what they want to do. If they want to give broad hints, they do. If they don't, they don't.
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Make it a Fluxx deck and I'm in.
Also, the world would finally have a justifiable use for a Fluxx deck.
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As for Lucky $even, while they don't have any zeros in the price now, I suppose they can bring that back at anytime. But honestly, how long has it been since anyone has called a zero in Lucky $even anyway? It just doesn't seem like an appealing number, and I think contestants realize how confusing it can be so they avoid it as well.
The last I saw it was during one of the 2008 MDS's. Contestant tried to call 0 for the last digit, but Drew talked her out of it...not because there are no zeroes, but because she had $1 left to spend, so 1 was a strictly better guess than 0.
/the last digit was 1
//saved her .28 gallons of fuel for her new car
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I think we're on to something here. I think Card Game is in for a radical change, too. I think they should start using a Pinochle deck. :)
Make it a Fluxx deck and I'm in. "You also need a baked potato to stop bidding."
Old grievance, but they should either fix Card Game or get rid of it. If you can make an ace any number you want, it becomes "guess the price of this car." Sure, it's a fitting pricing game, but goes against the fabric of the show and the idea of cards. Rule should go return to the original $100 or $1100.
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Making the Aces wild wasn't the problem (especially during a time where it was possible to pull a $200 range card); putting no ceiling on their value was what reduced the game to a "what's the price of the car" exercise. I remember a time when Aces were played when they were drawn (so none of this "hold them aside" crap, since most folks forgot they had one in their pocket anyway), and were wild, but only up to $1000. That made it an interesting decision, and especially if one was drawn near a time when the contestant was likely to stop.
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With Dice Game, it is a rule. With Lucky Seven and Ten Chances, it is a practice. Besides, with eighty games in the repertoire, the producers are trying to make each look and play differently than the others. Example: there are at least three games where players can take a cash offer or play for the car. In Gas Money, that offer escalates. In Spelling Bee that offer deescalates. In Let 'em Roll, that offer fluctuates.
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With Dice Game, it is a rule. With Lucky Seven and Ten Chances, it is a practice.
This is the best and most concise answer to the question that I have seen. Well put.
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Make it a Fluxx deck and I'm in. "You also need a baked potato to stop bidding."
Or a Set deck:
"You must be three solid diamonds away from the price without going over."
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Rule should go return to the original $100 or $1100.
That was never the rule. The only other version of the rule they've had is the one Chris L. described.
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That was never the rule. The only other version of the rule they've had is the one Chris L. described.
I suspected this but I didn't want to call bullshiat unless I was 100% sure.
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I think we're on to something here. I think Card Game is in for a radical change, too. I think they should start using a Pinochle deck. :)
Make it a Fluxx deck and I'm in. "You also need a baked potato to stop bidding."
Old grievance, but they should either fix Card Game or get rid of it.
Well considering they haven't played the game in 4 months, maybe they're thinking about it.
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I'd been "toying," the idea of a different way to play "Dice Game," but never mentioned it, because I figured the rules will never change!
But here's what I'd thought:
Instead of four individual dies, use a special pair of dice, that might remind you of the ones on "Big Showdown." Instead of having dots on the dice, have numbers on the dice.
-- One die with the numbers 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 --
-- the other with the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 --
-- and on one side of each die, a special symbol (like the "tulip," or maybe a picture of Drew Carey) --
The gameboard would have to be modified, somehow, to display the number rolled, since you'd be using the same dice on each turn.
Like on "Big Showdown," if one of the special symbol comes up in a roll, the number on the other die is cast as the number rolled.
Under this concept, it would be theoretically possible to roll any number from 0 through 9 with this special pair, and thus, possible to play the game using prices with zeros and numbers higher than six.
Oh, and if a double "symbol" is rolled, you'd automatically WIN the car!
As the old saying goes: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," so I'm sure "Dice Game," will continue as it is!
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I'd been "toying," the idea of a different way to play "Dice Game," but never mentioned it, because I figured the rules will never change!
*SNIP*
Because someone else will do it if I don't:
[font="Lucida Console"]---[color="#FF0000"] 0 1 2 3 4 5[/color]
--+----------------
[/font][font="Lucida Console"][color="#FF0000"]0[/color] | w 1 2 3 4 5
[color="#FF0000"]0[/color] | 0 1 2 3 4 5
[color="#FF0000"]1[/color] | 1 2 3 4 5 6
[color="#FF0000"]2[/color] | 2 3 4 5 6 7
[color="#FF0000"]3[/color] | 3 4 5 6 7 8
[color="#FF0000"]4[/color] | 4 5 6 7 8 9[/font]
0 | 1
1 | 3
2 | 4
3 | 5
4 | 6
5 | 6
6 | 4
7 | 3
8 | 2
9 | 1
The bell curve is not this game's friend.
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The bell curve is not this game's friend.
So essentially you're rolling the bonus answer dice from Outburst is what it looks like.
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So essentially you're rolling the bonus answer dice from Outburst is what it looks like.
Huh? Every Outburst I've ever seen comes with a d10 and a d3.
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Huh? Every Outburst I've ever seen comes with a d10 and a d3.
I had an early edition of Outburst that came in a long box, a cribbage board to count the score, and to determine the bonus answer you rolled two d6 (0-5) and added them.
Yes, you could play Dice Game with d20s (0-9 twice), but you lose so much of the awesome chrome and look of the game that it is better to use d6s and exclude the 8,700 possible prices that won't fit the game.
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Huh? Every Outburst I've ever seen comes with a d10 and a d3.
I had an early edition of Outburst that came in a long box, a cribbage board to count the score, and to determine the bonus answer you rolled two d6 (0-5) and added them.
Oh, you know what? Upon retrospect, I do remember that one, you're right.
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So here's the easy fix. Given that TPIR has no problem with redundant games (cf Bonus/Shell), you rework Dice Game. I happen to like shuffleboard, so I'm going with that. You may use whatever method you like. Our intrepid contestant slides a shufflepuck up and down the table, and wherever it lands, that's the number of play. Contestant guesses higher or lower. Repeat three times, check to see if the car is won.
Done and dusted.
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Our intrepid contestant slides a shufflepuck up and down the table, and wherever it lands, that's the number of play. Contestant guesses higher or lower.
Modification fails without riddles or Jim Perry.
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Let's say that somebody at TPIR is absolutely desperate to use 0s, 7s, 8s, and 9s in Dice Game. (I'm not sure why they would be, but that seems to be where this thread's going tonight, so let's just run with it.) Let's say they also just happen to be looking at YouTube and come upon some clips of Deluxe Dice Game. They think, "Hey, maybe we can bring this back with a modified format!"
So they come up with this, for those oh-so-frequent times when they want to offer 30- or 40-thousand-dollar cars without playing 3 Strikes: The basic gameplay is the same as always, but on each number, the contestant rolls two dice, with 0s on one side instead of 6s. He must guess whether the digit is higher or lower than the total of the roll. If he rolls 10, which obviously can't be the next digit because 10 isn't a digit, the number is lit up automatically as a reward for being lucky in an otherwise harder-than-usual game.
Is this a solid idea? I'm not sure. But it has a specific purpose, it avoids the use of weird-ass dice that 99% of people aren't going to recognize as dice, and it doesn't kill regular Dice Game.
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Is this a solid idea? I'm not sure. But it has a specific purpose, it avoids the use of weird-ass dice that 99% of people aren't going to recognize as dice, and it doesn't kill regular Dice Game.
Go back to Bob Zager's initial suggestion and Gene's chart, which isn't going to be too different with your layout. It makes the game ridiculously hard to win because the dice are going to err towards numbers in the middle of the range. At least Bob is outright giving the player the car for hitting the 1-in-36 shot (which would be ultimately 1-in-9 since a player gets four rolls of the dice), where you're just giving them the number.
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I've modified Bob's charts for my format:
[font="Lucida Console"]---[color="#FF0000"] 0 1 2 3 4 5[/color]
--+----------------
[/font][font="Lucida Console"][color="#FF0000"]0[/color] | 0 1 2 3 4 5
[color="#FF0000"]1[/color] | 1 2 3 4 5 6
[color="#FF0000"]2[/color] | 2 3 4 5 6 7
[color="#FF0000"]3[/color] | 3 4 5 6 7 8
[color="#FF0000"]4[/color] | 4 5 6 7 8 9
[color="#FF0000"]5[/color] | 5 6 7 8 9 w[/font]
0 | 1
1 | 2
2 | 3
3 | 4
4 | 5
5 | 6
6 | 5
7 | 4
8 | 3
9 | 2
10 | 1
On four out of nine rolls, you're going to either have a 0 or a 9, have only one or two digits that go against the odds, or get the number automatically for rolling a 10. When you're playing the game for a 3 Strikes-calibre car, I'm not sure this is an awful thing.
(And I don't like the whole "If such-and-such random event occurs at any point, you win the car without playing the rest of the game" deal. It strikes me as far too big of a reward.)
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it avoids the use of weird-ass dice that 99% of people aren't going to recognize as dice,
I think you underestimate the intersection of TPIR viewer and D&D player. :)
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I remember a time when Aces were played when they were drawn (so none of this "hold them aside" crap, since most folks forgot they had one in their pocket anyway), and were wild, but only up to $1000. That made it an interesting decision, and especially if one was drawn near a time when the contestant was likely to stop.
I must've been thinking of Gambit. Well, not entirely, but I'm sure you guys remember correctly and agree the "hold them aside" crap is the problem.
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I must've been thinking of Gambit. Well, not entirely, but I'm sure you guys remember correctly and agree the "hold them aside" crap is the problem.
I don't agree at all. What if you want a little longer to contemplate your bid without a host braying at you to make up your mind?
The biggest problems Card Game has are that you have to guess the price of a car, and being over by a dollar sinks you. If you came up with a game where you had one chance to price a car within $2,000 without going over, I don't think you'd have any more successes than Card Game does.
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I don't agree at all. What if you want a little longer to contemplate your bid without a host braying at you to make up your mind?
Then you should have drawn the ace a little later.
Topping out the wild value of an Ace at $1000 fixed that, because they either were ready to stop, in which case they fairly quickly fine-tuned the Ace to get the bid where they wanted it to be, or they didn't, in which case they made it $1000 and played on.
If you came up with a game where you had one chance to price a car within $2,000 without going over, I don't think you'd have any more successes than Card Game does.
The problem is simply that it hasn't aged well with the inflated price of cars, and the very-top-level-basic premise of the game (that a card is worth its value * $100) is one that can't really be updated cleanly; as such they have tried to update pretty much everything else ASIDE from that untouchable premise, but that's really the premise that breaks the game in 2012. When the readout only had four digits in it back in the day, it worked a lot better because as you got close you had to think about whether your next draw was going to take you over where you wanted to be, and a $1000 window was pretty lenient if you drew the right card at the start.
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Why does Card Game HAVE to be played for cars? Play it for lower priced prizes like trips and such and be done with it.
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Why does Card Game HAVE to be played for cars? Play it for lower priced prizes like trips and such and be done with it.
Wha-wha-whaaaa? You're tinkering with something that has worked for decades! There will be riots in the streets! Imagine the chaos and looting! Oh the humanity!
And then most of the G-R membership will go back to their parents' basements when curfew hits.
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Why does Card Game HAVE to be played for cars? Play it for lower priced prizes like trips and such and be done with it.
I've often wondered this myself for other games, such as Money Game and Lucky Seven.
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I've often wondered this myself for other games, such as Money Game and Lucky Seven.
There's absolutely no reason Money Game couldn't be played for a bedroom set, just like there's no reason Joker couldn't be played for a car. But they've decided that part of the formula is that there are Car Games and there are Not Car Games, and when you're doing a special show (like the Young Driver's Special thing earlier this week where they were all car games) you can go in one direction and make a Not Car Game into a Car Game if you need to for time or variety, but it doesn't go in the other direction, ever. It Just Is. (Not saying you're not, but man, I wish people would accept It Just Is as an answer around here a little more often.)
Also, note that for the most part car games are some of the longer, more involved games on the show. (And rightly so.) So if you've decided you are gonna offer on average X cars per show, and you have room for X long games per show, it follows that those are gonna match up, or else you have to play short games for cars to even things out. And I think we all agree, gimmick shows aside (and really it even twinges at me on the gimmick shows) that playing Pick-A-Number or Double Prices for a car is incredibly unsatisfying.
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I've often wondered this myself for other games, such as Money Game and Lucky Seven.
"We're looking for the front half of the HDTV..."
The biggest reason to me is that they simply started that way. The foreign versions can get away with it because their audiences never got introduced to a game in a certain light. I mean, sure, you can play the Pyramid Winner's Circle for a Mediterranean Cruise, but it sure looks strange after years of playing it for large sums of money. But in addition, as I alluded to above, a lot of the car games were created with that prize in mind. "If you have just one dollar left, I'll sell you that living room" doesn't have quite the same ring to it, for example (in my opinion). They are often the longer games with the best moments of tension.
In fact, now that I think about it, I have seen a scenario where they tried this. On Mark Kriski's TPIR94 pilot, they played Lucky Seven, and then 3 Strikes later in the half hour for a sailboat. It felt really strange that 3 Strikes took longer and had more drama than the game played for twice as much money earlier in the show.
-Jason
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"We're looking for the front half of the HDTV..."
Thank G-d we're not playing for a horse.
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can go in one direction and make a Not Car Game into a Car Game if you need to for time or variety, but it doesn't go in the other direction, ever.
...except for Money Game. Until the late '80s or early '90s, it would get played for a boat a few times a year, and it wasn't scheduled as a car game on those days. It can also be played for pretty much anything else that's mobile; they have motorcycle and trailer graphics for it, and I know it was played for a trailer once in 1988. It can be used as a substitute for pretty much anything remotely related to a car.
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...except for Money Game. Until the late '80s or early '90s, it would get played for a boat a few times a year, and it wasn't scheduled as a car game on those days. It can also be played for pretty much anything else that's mobile
As you point out, a boat is still a vehicle.
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And the show, IMO, is trying to escape the "Loyal Friend and True" mindset. Good on them.
Given how much the show has changed (for good or bad) I've found this to be largely not the case. I await your evidence to the contrary.
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"We're looking for the front half of the HDTV..."
Thank G-d we're not playing for a horse.
That one made me laugh out loud when I read it!
IIRC, Money Game and Lucky 7 were occasionally played for boats and trailers back in the 70s. Then it became cars exclusively.
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Thank G-d we're not playing for a horse.
Not amused by your shenanigans (http://"http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/87/5081.html")
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IIRC, Money Game and Lucky 7 were occasionally played for boats and trailers back in the 70s. Then it became cars exclusively.
I'm skeptical of this, and not because of any evidence...but because seriously, how do you drive a boat onto the stage?