The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Craig Karlberg on March 17, 2004, 05:40:18 AM
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Here's an intresting item from tv-gameshows.net:
Todd Kim, who won $500K on the first night of ABC's Super Millionaire, caused a stir when he appeared as a contestant at a taping for Jeopardy(presumably his appearnce is going to air this week). Producer Freidman refused to comment on his elegibility because the shows' standards are quite diffrent from the network's.
Therefore, I'm throwing this question to any "attorneys & lawyers" in this group:
Should a contestant forgo any earnings on one show because he won money on another show where the elegibility standards differ?
Here's my argument for the player: As long as he played on one show(like Jeopardy!) long BEFORE he went on another show(like Super Millionaire) without regard to any elegibility restrictions placed on BOTH shows. If he's sworn to secrecy as far as any money won, any elegibility restrictions in place may or may not be a liability factor in the court of law.
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[quote name=\'Craig Karlberg\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 06:40 AM\'] Here's my argument for the player: As long as he played on one show(like Jeopardy!) long BEFORE he went on another show(like Super Millionaire) without regard to any elegibility restrictions placed on BOTH shows. If he's sworn to secrecy as far as any money won, any elegibility restrictions in place may or may not be a liability factor in the court of law. [/quote]
"May or may not"? Well, that was certainly a wasted sentence.
I'm no lawyer (I'm not sure we have any here) but if you signed a contract with somebody, you're pretty much required to abide by their rules. And I can assure you that these shows DO have lawyers.
Millionaire doesn't seem to have too many restrictions in place, so the real issue would appear to be Jeopardy. If Kim's J! appearance is airing this week, then he probably taped it a few months ago. He knew at the taping when the show would air, and he also knew that he signed a contract with Jeopardy saying that he couldn't be on any other game shows for six months after the airing of his Jeopardy appearance.
Knowing all that, he still tried to get on Super Millionaire anyway. (It's not like they picked him out of the blue.) That's just a flagrant disregard for Jeopardy, their rules and his signed contract, so they have every reason in the world to withhold his winnings. Of course, that's probably the limit of Jeopardy's options too. My guess is that he didn't do all that well on Jeopardy and he figured the potential larger payouts of Super Millionaire were worth the risk of forfeiting his Jeopardy money. With $500,000 in his pocket, that probably turned out to be a good choice. I doubt he'll see a dime from Jeopardy.
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I'll back up that argument: Take a look at Jason Block. He appeared on Millionaire AND Jeopardy. Did he have to surrender any of his J! winnings or Millionaire winnings? No.
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His episode was taped Wednesday, 12/10. My girlfriend Ellie just
appeared on Jeopardy Monday so we were in the studio for the
first 3 shows of this week. We didn't see him play, but she called
me 5 minutes into Super Millionaire yelling "I KNOW THAT GUY!!"
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 11:31 AM\'] I'll back up that argument: Take a look at Jason Block. He appeared on Millionaire AND Jeopardy. Did he have to surrender any of his J! winnings or Millionaire winnings? No. [/quote]
Have you ever thought that the reason his appearances was not an issue because did not tape the shows within six months of each other? Or do you ever think before you type?
Brandon Brooks
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[quote name=\'petek66\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 11:55 AM\'] His episode was taped Wednesday, 12/10. My girlfriend Ellie just
appeared on Jeopardy Monday so we were in the studio for the
first 3 shows of this week. We didn't see him play, but she called
me 5 minutes into Super Millionaire yelling "I KNOW THAT GUY!!" [/quote]
Congrats to Miss Ellie, she lit up the screen with her appearance. I'll take your word for it Pete before I'll take Professor SB's word.
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Like Jeopardy, Pyramid was a Sony Pictures Television show, and the agreement I just signed for that show stated that I would not appear on another nationally televised game show within three months of the original AIRDATE of my Pyramid appearance.
So if the rules for Jeopardy were the same, he was not to appear on any other shows until late June, at the cost of forfeiting his Jeopardy winnings.
Incidentally, Pyramid pays out almost four months after a show's airdate, so they have plenty of time window in which to enforce this clause and revoke the prize.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 11:31 AM\'] I'll back up that argument: Take a look at Jason Block. He appeared on Millionaire AND Jeopardy. Did he have to surrender any of his J! winnings or Millionaire winnings? No. [/quote]
Maybe it's because his Millionaire appearance was in Jan. 2000, and his J! appearance was in Jun. 2001. I think he taped for J! in early 2001, around Jan. or Feb.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 12:31 PM\'] I'll back up that argument: Take a look at Jason Block. He appeared on Millionaire AND Jeopardy. Did he have to surrender any of his J! winnings or Millionaire winnings? No. [/quote]
First of all, Jason appeared on both shows over a year apart. That is totally in line with both show's rules. So that argument is null and void.
Second, Prime-Time Millionaire does not care about syndicated game show appearances. It is written in the rules. The only concern they had was that you had not appeared on another prime time network game show in the last year.
Todd did not violate any Millionaire rules, now with Jeopardy! I have no idea.
Tim :-)
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[quote name=\'Timsterino\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 02:34 PM\'] Second, Prime-Time Millionaire does not care about syndicated game show appearances. It is written in the rules. The only concern they had was that you had not appeared on another prime time network game show in the last year. [/quote]
Which, sadly, at the moment, narrows the field considerably. Or would The Apprentice count? :)
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[quote name=\'Timsterino\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 02:34 PM\']Second, Prime-Time Millionaire does not care about syndicated game show appearances. It is written in the rules. The only concern they had was that you had not appeared on another prime time network game show in the last year.[/quote]
Which, sadly, at the moment, narrows the field considerably. Or would The Apprentice count? :)
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[quote name=\'Timsterino\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 02:34 PM\'] Second, Prime-Time Millionaire does not care about syndicated game show appearances. [/quote]
Well, except for the syndicated version of Millionaire itself. Unfortunately.
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He knew at the taping when the show would air, and he also knew that he signed a contract with Jeopardy saying that he couldn't be on any other game shows for six months after the airing of his Jeopardy appearance.
Just a question to clarify: He is not allowed to appear on another show six months after the airing of the Jeopardy! episode? (I realize the quoted section above answers my question, but if the quoted section is inaccurate, I want to make sure the correct info is being used).
If this is the case, then it seems that there would not be an eligibility issue since he appeared on SM before the airing of his Jeopardy! episode. If a contestant is not allowed to appear on a show six months after auditioning or taping for J!, then there is a problem.
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An interesting point is what do you consider the timeframe. From taping or airing?
My TPiR Contestant release states "May not have appeared on any television game shows within the last year."
Appeared? Hell, I taped in January, aired in February, and reaired in August due to a pre-emption. What does appeared mean? :)
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[quote name=\'Peter Sarrett\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 04:18 PM\'] [quote name=\'Timsterino\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 02:34 PM\'] Second, Prime-Time Millionaire does not care about syndicated game show appearances. [/quote]
Well, except for the syndicated version of Millionaire itself. Unfortunately. [/quote]
Correct. Hey, I wish I could get back in the hotseat again too. But you know. :-)
Tim :-)
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[quote name=\'ClockGameJohn\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 05:38 PM\'] An interesting point is what do you consider the timeframe. From taping or airing?
My TPiR Contestant release states "May not have appeared on any television game shows within the last year."
Appeared? Hell, I taped in January, aired in February, and reaired in August due to a pre-emption. What does appeared mean? :) [/quote]
John,
I believe in appeared they mean first appearance/airing. But I am not sure myself. You do bring up an interesting point.
Tim :-)
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If this is the case, then it seems that there would not be an eligibility issue since he appeared on SM before the airing of his Jeopardy! episode. If a contestant is not allowed to appear on a show six months after auditioning or taping for J!, then there is a problem.
The rule for most syndicated shows is you can't have appeared on another game show for one year previous to the date of your audition. Some draw a distinction between game shows and other reality or talk shows, and they may have the rule that it has to be one year since doing a game show, but only six months since doing a reality/talk show.
That means one year (or six months) from the initial air date of the previous show to your audition for the next game show.
And then, once you're selected as a contestant, you must further agree not to appear on another game or reality show for three or six months, depending on the show. The relevant dates here would always be the initial air date.
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Let me take this a step farther. What would happen if you taped a show which never aired but you still received the prizes? The Hardball Hot Seat finals never aired but everybody got their prizes. Even though it's not technically a game show, I should still be eligible for any game show (specifically Jeopardy!), right? My first appearance on Hardball was almost 18 months ago, so we can disregard that appearance.
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From everything I've heard, if your show does not air, it doesn't count as a previous appearance. The whole thing they're concerned about is whether your mug shows up on too many shows too close together. If you're never seen on TV, they don't count it as an appearance.
Also, if you are on multiple days of a show, such as a regular game, and then come back for a championship, or if you just play over several days, the clock starts counting from the first air date of the last episode you appeared in.
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[quote name=\'Little Big Brother\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 04:35 PM\']
He knew at the taping when the show would air, and he also knew that he signed a contract with Jeopardy saying that he couldn't be on any other game shows for six months after the airing of his Jeopardy appearance.
Just a question to clarify: He is not allowed to appear on another show six months after the airing of the Jeopardy! episode? (I realize the quoted section above answers my question, but if the quoted section is inaccurate, I want to make sure the correct info is being used).
If this is the case, then it seems that there would not be an eligibility issue since he appeared on SM before the airing of his Jeopardy! episode. If a contestant is not allowed to appear on a show six months after auditioning or taping for J!, then there is a problem. [/quote]
You guys are searching for loopholes that I promise you the Sony lawyers have closed.
I agree not to appear on any other game show until six (6) months after the initial broadcast of my appearance on the program. I have not taped an appearance on any other television game show which has been (or may be) aired within one year of my appearance on this program.
I believe most of you know by now why I happen to have that quote in my possession.
You sign that agreement the morning you tape. From that point on, no more game shows for a while. It's that simple.
Tony Kim violated the agreement that he signed. He had his reasons, and we don't necessarily know what they are. He may have even gotten clearance from Sony, we don't even know that for sure. But please stop inventing goofy excuses and justifications as if you're better at this than the Sony lawyers. Because you're really, really not.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 08:22 PM\']
I agree not to appear on any other game show until six (6) months after the initial broadcast of my appearance on the program. I have not taped an appearance on any other television game show which has been (or may be) aired within one year of my appearance on this program.[/b]
I believe most of you know by now why I happen to have that quote in my possession.
You sign that agreement the morning you tape. From that point on, no more game shows for a while. It's that simple.
Tony Kim violated the agreement that he signed. He had his reasons, and we don't necessarily know what they are. He may have even gotten clearance from Sony, we don't even know that for sure. But please stop inventing goofy excuses and justifications as if you're better at this than the Sony lawyers. Because you're really, really not.[/quote]
As long as the agreement doesn't call for any penalties for violating it, Todd probably comes out way ahead based on what probable Jeopardy! winnings he may have to forfeit. Obviously, he knew how much he may be risking (small or huge J! prize), but this has to be a unique case of risking what you have in hand for what's behind door #2!
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You guys are searching for loopholes that I promise you the Sony lawyers have closed.
I agree not to appear on any other game show until six (6) months after the initial broadcast of my appearance on the program. I have not taped an appearance on any other television game show which has been (or may be) aired within one year of my appearance on this program.
And
But please stop inventing goofy excuses and justifications as if you're better at this than the Sony lawyers. Because you're really, really not.
With the actual wording now available, it is now clear how the rule should be interpreted. But in defense of the "goofy excuses and justifications", based on the information previously available there was quite a bit of room to have varied interpretations of the eligibility rules.
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You guys are searching for loopholes that I promise you the Sony lawyers have closed.
I agree not to appear on any other game show until six (6) months after the initial broadcast of my appearance on the program. I have not taped an appearance on any other television game show which has been (or may be) aired within one year of my appearance on this program.
That's all boilerplate game show legalese. The post-scandal, videotape era of TV game shows is over four decades old, plenty of time for this stuff to be figured out by lawyers at the three networks, where that boilerplate language probably came from. As Matt says, this was all reduced to a science years and years ago.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 09:04 AM\'] [quote name=\'petek66\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 11:55 AM\'] His episode was taped Wednesday, 12/10. My girlfriend Ellie just
appeared on Jeopardy Monday so we were in the studio for the
first 3 shows of this week. We didn't see him play, but she called
me 5 minutes into Super Millionaire yelling "I KNOW THAT GUY!!" [/quote]
Congrats to Miss Ellie, she lit up the screen with her appearance. I'll take your word for it Pete before I'll take Professor SB's word. [/quote]
Obvious arguments and disagreements notwithstanding, there is more than a slight possibility that Steve Beverly did his homework and checked the Jeopardy website, complete with Todd Kim's photo and "hometown howdy", that indicated he was going to play this week.
Ben T.
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Ben does have a good point there. The least Todd can "surrender" is $1,000 on Jeopardy! for after all, the sky's the limit on that show now. If he appears today or tomorrow, there'll be certain ramifications on his winnings if any penalties do occur.
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[quote name=\'Little Big Brother\' date=\'Mar 17 2004, 10:55 PM\'] With the actual wording now available, it is now clear how the rule should be interpreted. But in defense of the "goofy excuses and justifications", based on the information previously available there was quite a bit of room to have varied interpretations of the eligibility rules. [/quote]
I guess my point is that it shouldn't have taken seeing the exact language in print for you to figure that the Sony legal team would know what they're doing.
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Do the Jeopardy! rules state what they can do to you if you break their contract other than withhold your winnings? Can they sue you, for instance? If he had won any significant money, he would not have even tried to get on Super Millioinaire. He, as a lawyer, certainly understands the ramifications of a contract if his law degree means anything.
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[quote name=\'goongas\' date=\'Mar 18 2004, 12:52 PM\']Do the Jeopardy! rules state what they can do to you if you break their contract other than withhold your winnings? Can they sue you, for instance? If he had won any significant money, he would not have even tried to get on Super Millioinaire. He, as a lawyer, certainly understands the ramifications of a contract if his law degree means anything.[/quote]
All that I think Sony needs to do to withhold the winnings. It's the other guy's perogative to take it any farther--and if he did, he wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Mar 18 2004, 04:22 PM\']
All that I think Sony needs to do to withhold the winnings. It's the other guy's perogative to take it any farther--and if he did, he wouldn't have a leg to stand on. [/quote]
ANother possible point to ponder: He'll win the SUper Millionaire monies over 10 years IIRC: $100K in the next few weeks(if he hasn't received it already) plus $40K a year for the next 10 years. Maybe DIsney will withhold some or all of the future monies from the annuity prize he won.
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If he has to forfeit the money, he could always try to win it back on "64 Grand Slam."
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Well that explains it. He didn't win crap. :) I AM SO HAPPY. He lost. I don't mean to be gleeful, but being lucky enough to get picked for JEP! THEN getting the call for Millionaire...well..that's enough good luck for one person..I'm sorry! :)
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And thus ends today's episode of "The Point is Moot." Bye-bye everybody.
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Before I "officially" sign off on this topic, I just want to thank all those who made this topic a very intresting one.
My final comment: Sure he left J! with only a $2,000 consolation prize which is very easy to surrender given he won 250 times more money on Super Millionaire. But, it's the experience that counts. The lesson here: Don't try to make too much of a spectacle of yourself. You're only fooling yourself if you do.
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[quote name=\'BrentW\' date=\'Mar 18 2004, 07:29 PM\'] Well that explains it. He didn't win crap. :) I AM SO HAPPY. He lost. I don't mean to be gleeful, but being lucky enough to get picked for JEP! THEN getting the call for Millionaire...well..that's enough good luck for one person..I'm sorry! :) [/quote]
True that. He'll just have to find a way to get by on that measly $500K.
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Sure he left J! with only a $2,000 consolation prize which is very easy to surrender
Hey, a couple of cases of Turtle Wax are worth SOMETHING!
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Mar 19 2004, 05:35 PM\']
Sure he left J! with only a $2,000 consolation prize which is very easy to surrender
Hey, a couple of cases of Turtle Wax are worth SOMETHING![/quote]
They don't get the cases of Turtle Wax or the lifetime supply of Centrum Silver or the gift from Inventions Submission Corporation on "J!" any more, IIRC.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Mar 22 2004, 03:40 PM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Mar 19 2004, 05:35 PM\']
Sure he left J! with only a $2,000 consolation prize which is very easy to surrender
Hey, a couple of cases of Turtle Wax are worth SOMETHING![/quote]
They don't get the cases of Turtle Wax or the lifetime supply of Centrum Silver or the gift from Inventions Submission Corporation on "J!" any more, IIRC.[/quote]
I'm positive Mr. Clementson was being facetious.
As Mr. Lemon might put it, "VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!"
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[quote name=\'BrentW\' date=\'Mar 18 2004, 07:29 PM\'] S
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Well that explains it. He didn't win crap. :) I AM SO HAPPY. He lost. I don't mean to be gleeful, but being lucky enough to get picked for JEP! THEN getting the call for Millionaire...well..that's enough good luck for one person..I'm sorry! :) [/quote]
Or are you utterly jealous because you didn't qualify? IMO, if you are intellegent enough to make both J! and Millionaire...that's worthy of recognition, not being dumped on.
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I'd argue for the Kimmer...
In both applications, he was truthful. He had not appeared on any other game show within the time frame at the point of his application for J! (Super Millionaire probably wasn't even scheduled at that point...), and SM allowed for his participation on J! not to be disqualifying.
I think that, if they're going to put standards for not appearing on multiple shows in quick succession into the rules, they should allow those standards to be universal.
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However, after reading the thread, and seeing Matt, they have no choice.
The Kimmer must forfeit his winnings, since he violated the J! contract, if Matt's bold-faced quote is correct, by appearing on SM. I don't think it'll be an issue though -- he can't have won $500K on J!...
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C'mon -- Chris was being silly -- the "Lifetime Supply of Turtle Wax" was one of the most endearing "parting gifts" ever known on game shows... ;)
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Yes, but if you don't have a turtle it's about useless.
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-- he can't have won $500K on J!...
Why not? The sky is the limit now for winnings. Not likely he could have, but perhaps they would bump up the Tournament of Champions payout, etc.
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[quote name=\'HYHYBT\' date=\'Mar 24 2004, 10:09 AM\'] Yes, but if you don't have a turtle it's about useless. [/quote]
Through an unfortunate accident I don't care to discuss, I learned it's also quite effective on bald heads.