The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: wdm1219inpenna on August 08, 2010, 11:49:40 AM
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I was brainstorming the other night about "Wheel of Fortune", and I made a list of all the things I could remember the program either currently doing, or having done in the past, both with daytime & primetime.
Here's the probably almost completed list. I defer to my fellow &/or lady posters on here to add to these:
Buy a Vowel space (retired very soon after the show debuted on NBC)
Shopping for prizes (retired in 1989 on daytime, I forget when on primetime, I want to say 1985, start of the 3rd primetime season?)
On Account (retired once shopping disappeared, not used too often, seemed seldom to be an advantage to using it too)
Mystery Wedge (current) I rather like this concept, and the way it replaced the mini $10,000 prize wedge.
Jackpot (current, although the daytime version had a Jackpot space too, but it was different)
Prize Puzzles (not sure when they began, I like that they have 1 each night, but would prefer them to have it in round 1, and not have any prize wedges on the wheel itself, make the Jackpot round 2 and Mystery round 3)
$1,000,000 space (Very much like this, and the way it's done, you really really really REALLY have to earn this, and as we've seen, it can be done too!)
Free Play (I'm still working on this, not sure if I like it or not)
Free Spin (Retired at start of season 27)
Double Play (Great concept, but poorly executed, Pat needed to remind the players more often that they had it)
Megaword (Really bad idea. Use the word in a sentence. Were I a player, I would have simply said "Tonight on Wheel of Fortune, the Megaword solution is ANTIDISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM"
"25" Bonus wedge (just for season 25)
Clue puzzles (Neat concept, kind of miss it a little).
Fill in the Blank (Another neat puzzle concept)
Big Money Wedge (used in season 25 only, never really saw it landed on, but then I don't watch 5 nights a week like I used to either)
Mini $10,000 space (replaced with the $1 million dollar mini wedge)
Star Bonus (used on Woolery's version)
Pick your bonus prize was once an option
The 5 "WHEEL" bonus envelopes
Red Letter puzzles (I liked these a lot)
Hour long programs in the 70s I believe
Wild Card (current, I like this too)
Gift Tags (meh...)
Prize Wedges (I think they have been a staple on the syndie version since season 1, if I'm not mistaken)
Toss-Up Puzzles (While I like these to a degree, especially since it allows everyone to win at least something during the half hour, I hate that time is taken away from actual spinning, between that, and so many "sponsor" plugs during the actual game itself, coupled with the added commercial time, we seldom if ever get to see a complete 4th round w/the $5,000 space played any longer.
Add $1,000 to value of final spin (Love this idea too, gives everyone a bit more of a fighting chance)
$500 house minimum (increased to $1,000 later on)....
New puzzle board
About the only thing that remains the same, vowels cost $250 in 1975, and cost $250 now. I'd like to see them raise it up to $1,000. With inflation on everything else, including the wedge amounts on the wheel, $250 seems like nothing now. Spending $1,000 on the other hand, a player might reconsider it, or not buy as many vowels. I guess the reasoning is, if vowels are not bought as often, it would slow the game down, and as it is already, they struggle to get a complete 4th round of spinning in any more.
What else am I forgetting?
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[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245561\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 11:49 AM\']What else am I forgetting?[/quote]
I remember hearing that the original Bankrupt sound was that of a toilet flushing, but it was changed because Chuck HATED it.
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[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245561\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 08:49 AM\']Shopping for prizes (retired in 1989 on daytime, I forget when on primetime, I want to say 1985, start of the 3rd primetime season?)[/quote]
1987, start of the 5th season, actually.
[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245561\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 08:49 AM\']$500 house minimum (increased to $1,000 later on)....[/quote]
The house minimum was $200 before both of those. ISTR reading around these parts it was $100 in the early NBC years, but again - just my memory.
You can also mention returning champs. Five days way way back, reduced down eventually to three. Not present in nighttime, then made a return, then morphed into the Friday Finals format, then back to no champs.
-Jason
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[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245561\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 10:49 AM\']New puzzle board[/quote]
Originally 36 spaces, expanded to 42 or 48 (i think) in 1981, border changed around 1995, touchscreens and new border added in 1997, neonization in 2003 or 4
In addition, there was originally no bankrupt sound effect.
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The SURPRISE space from the early-to-mid-90s. Usually a trip, occasionally a car was offered.
"His and Hers" cars, usually a pair of cars of the same make, offered during the bonus round. Phased out sometime c. the mid-90s, but I'd love to see it come back, although it makes more sense to just give away one luxurious car worth the same thing...
During the 1999 season (I think it was 1999), the show would open with a half-filled puzzle, which was revealed after Pat and Vanna walked out.
Adding on to the Mystery wedge, when first introduced in 2002, offered the occasional car as well (IIRC, it was usually a Ford Ranger or Kia), but now it's often $10,000 cash.
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1987, start of the 5th season, actually.
Sometime during 1987, they did a "special month of cash" to test the format (during a sweeps month maybe?) I can't recall if they went back to shopping for a while before they made the switch to cash permanent, or if they just continued with it after the "special month" was over.
Anyone remember?
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Add $1,000 to value of final spin (Love this idea too, gives everyone a bit more of a fighting chance)
Never really understood why adding $1,000 was necessary if Sajak landed on the the $5,000 in the Final Spin.
And not really game-play oriented, but when did we stop seeing Sajak land on a "Bankrupt" or some non-cash amount for the Final Spin?
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[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245561\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 11:49 AM\']Toss-Up Puzzles (I hate that time is taken away from actual spinning)[/quote]I've never really understood the dislike for toss-up puzzles, since we get three more pieces of gameplay and it doesn't take more than 30 seconds, if that, from "real" traditional gameplay. With toss-ups, you get more material for your entertainment buck. [quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245561\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 11:49 AM\']we seldom if ever get to see a complete 4th round w/the $5,000 space played any longer.[/quote]I've seen a lot more full fourth and fifth rounds this past season than any I can remember since the toss-ups started.
[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'245571\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:19 PM\']Never really understood why adding $1,000 was necessary if Sajak landed on the the $5,000 in the Final Spin.[/quote]Because it's a lot easier to make it a blanket rule than to say "we'll add $1,000 UNLESS you land on $5,000 because you don't need any more money, you greedy heathens."
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[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'245572\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:36 PM\'][quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'245571\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:19 PM\']Never really understood why adding $1,000 was necessary if Sajak landed on the the $5,000 in the Final Spin.[/quote]Because it's a lot easier to make it a blanket rule than to say "we'll add $1,000 UNLESS you land on $5,000 because you don't need any more money, you greedy heathens."
[/quote]
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/ http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3211/matmonbag2ec0.gif (http://\"http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3211/matmonbag2ec0.gif\")
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245565\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 12:40 PM\']During the 1999 season (I think it was 1999), the show would open with a half-filled puzzle, which was revealed after Pat and Vanna walked out.[/quote]
Yep, right year...it was called the Preview Puzzle. They also had the Puzzler around that time...whoever solved either the first or second puzzle would get 10 (15?) seconds to solve another, partially filled-in puzzle for...um...well, they won something, but I don't remember what it was anymore. :-)
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'245569\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 12:55 PM\']Sometime during 1987, they did a "special month of cash" to test the format (during a sweeps month maybe?) I can't recall if they went back to shopping for a while before they made the switch to cash permanent, or if they just continued with it after the "special month" was over.[/quote]
I think they did something similar the next season...they had a couple of "Wipeout Weeks" to test bringing back returning champions. I think the name came from the concept of "wiping out the bonus round."
Anybody remember when they started doing the final spin on every show even if they had to do it as soon as the puzzle started?
[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'245572\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:36 PM\'][quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245561\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 11:49 AM\']Toss-Up Puzzles (I hate that time is taken away from actual spinning)[/quote]I've never really understood the dislike for toss-up puzzles, since we get three more pieces of gameplay and it doesn't take more than 30 seconds, if that, from "real" traditional gameplay. With toss-ups, you get more material for your entertainment buck.[/quote]
And less of the fourth round, which is really what I'd rather watch.
[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'245572\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:36 PM\']I've seen a lot more full fourth and fifth rounds this past season than any I can remember since the toss-ups started.[/quote]
Fine. Then less sixth rounds, which I'd also rather watch.
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- Beginning in the late 80s in the bonus round, the contestant was given RSTLNE automatically.
- The speed-up round time to guess the puzzle was reduced to 3 seconds instead of 5 in..was it 2002?
- In season 14, the top 3 players of the week returned on Friday to compete.
--Jamie
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Another Free Spin note...it went from being on the wheel (and unlimited free spins if hit) as its own wedge, to being a "token" on the wheel, c. 1990?
Add $1,000 to value of final spin (Love this idea too, gives everyone a bit more of a fighting chance)
Don't like it. If they'd run a better configuration in the final round, it wouldn't be necessary.
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[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'245574\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:55 PM\'][quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245565\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 12:40 PM\']During the 1999 season (I think it was 1999), the show would open with a half-filled puzzle, which was revealed after Pat and Vanna walked out.[/quote]
Yep, right year...it was called the Preview Puzzle. They also had the Puzzler around that time...whoever solved either the first or second puzzle would get 10 (15?) seconds to solve another, partially filled-in puzzle for...um...well, they won something, but I don't remember what it was anymore. :-)
[/quote]
Forgot all about the actual Puzzler. I think it was just a cash bonus of $1,000 or so.
[quote name=\'Jimmy Fiono Coyne\' post=\'245575\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:55 PM\']- Beginning in the late 80s in the bonus round, the contestant was given RSTLNE automatically.[/quote]
I've seen October 1988 for this one...the same time they started offering the "WHEEL" envelopes.
I believe the first road trip was also 1988...NYC?
There's also the $100,000 bonus wheel, started in October 2001, augmented to $1 mil at the start of season 26, although the $100K is still the top prize if no one brings the million dollar wedge to the bonus round. Doug Ross won the first $100K prize in December '01 (puzzle was "A HAPPY MEAL"). Dunno how many have won the $100K altogether.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245577\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 12:06 PM\']Forgot all about the actual Puzzler. I think it was just a cash bonus of $1,000 or so.[/quote] Three large. That was the point where every after-puzzle question or brainbuster was worth $3,000.
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when was wipeout week? didnt they go to all cash IMMEDIATELY after?
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[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'245572\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 01:36 PM\'][quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'245571\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:19 PM\']Never really understood why adding $1,000 was necessary if Sajak landed on the the $5,000 in the Final Spin.[/quote]Because it's a lot easier to make it a blanket rule than to say "we'll add $1,000 UNLESS you land on $5,000 because you don't need any more money, you greedy heathens."
[/quote]
You're not the one doing the landing--this is Sajak's spin. Adding the $1,000 to a lower amount makes sense. Adding it to the $5,000 I think is overkill.
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This is awesome. THanks! I can't believe I forgot about the big ol' pink "SURPRISE" wedge! And of course the Friday Finals. And during the F.F., the jackpot started at $10K instead of $5K. Thanks again all! Nice to "wheel" down memory lane...
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[quote name=\'toetyper\' post=\'245581\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 04:03 PM\']when was wipeout week? didnt they go to all cash IMMEDIATELY after?[/quote]
The show was already all cash by that time.
[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'245576\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 03:06 PM\']Another Free Spin note...it went from being on the wheel (and unlimited free spins if hit) as its own wedge, to being a "token" on the wheel, c. 1990?[/quote]
Sometime during the '89-'90 season.
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Wipeout Week(s, think there was more than one) were run during that period when there were no PT champs.
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'245574\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:55 PM\'][quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'245572\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:36 PM\']I've seen a lot more full fourth and fifth rounds this past season than any I can remember since the toss-ups started.[/quote]
Fine. Then less sixth rounds, which I'd also rather watch.[/quote]
Okay, this argument I can understand, but Toss-Ups are certainly more entertaining than drawing numbers.
[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'245576\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 03:06 PM\']Add $1,000 to value of final spin (Love this idea too, gives everyone a bit more of a fighting chance)
Don't like it. If they'd run a better configuration in the final round, it wouldn't be necessary.[/quote]
If the object of the game is to win, the risk you run is that you make rounds 1-3 unimportant. Besides, the configs they ran before weren't that great, either.
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Wasn't there some sort of "interactive" element with the Puzzlers? (Like with WebTV or something). Was there a prize attached or was this just funsises for the home players?
I miss (and prefer) the Friday Finals format.
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'245571\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 01:19 PM\']And not really game-play oriented, but when did we stop seeing Sajak land on a "Bankrupt" or some non-cash amount for the Final Spin?[/quote]
They started editing those out several years ago.
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'245589\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 06:26 PM\']Okay, this argument I can understand, but Toss-Ups are certainly more entertaining than drawing numbers.[/quote]
And if they'd made us watch the contestants draw numbers for those first 25 years or so, this'd be a damn fine point...but they didn't.
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[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'245588\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 06:05 PM\'][quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'245576\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 03:06 PM\']Another Free Spin note...it went from being on the wheel (and unlimited free spins if hit) as its own wedge, to being a "token" on the wheel, c. 1990?[/quote]Sometime during the '89-'90 season.[/quote]
October 16, 1989. It happened on both daytime and nighttime at the same point.
[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245561\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 11:49 AM\']Buy a Vowel space (retired very soon after the show debuted on NBC)[/quote]
It was a really bad idea -- you lost your turn if A) you didn't have $250 to spend or B) all vowels in the puzzle had already been purchased. As for how long it lasted, all I know is that it managed to get into Milton-Bradley's two home games (by which point the $25, $50, and $75 spaces had been ousted), which were published in '75. The more experienced among us on the forum may be able to narrow down a timeframe.
Prize Trip Puzzles (not sure when they began)
Fixed that for...somebody. Seriously, 99% of the time it's a trip (which I seem to recall reading on this site were quite inflated) -- a tactic used by The Price is Right in most of the last two seasons. Originally, and very rarely in this past season, it was not a trip.
Megaword (Really bad idea. Use the word in a sentence.
Such as BOMBASTIC, as in "Being on Wheel Of Fortune is a BOMBASTIC experience". :-)
Star Bonus (used on Woolery's version)
Early 1978. It was probably the first-ever "extra" put on the wheel, and the last time they attempted a Bonus Round before Pat took over. I thought it was a good idea, at least.
Hour long programs in the 70s I believe
December 1, 1975 to January 16, 1976. It was a six-week attempt to duplicate the then-recent success The Price is Right had with its expansion (and/or celebrate Wheel's first anniversary?). It was also the second time they attempted a Bonus Round during the pre-Sajak era.
About the only thing that remains the same, vowels cost $250 in 1975, and cost $250 now.
The three pilots (1973-74) also sold them for $250. And yes, you had to land on Buy A Vowel in those pilots as well.
I'd like to see them raise it up to $1,000. With inflation on everything else, including the wedge amounts on the wheel, $250 seems like nothing now.
I agree on upping the price, but the inflation hasn't really hit the wedges. The huge gap between top dollar ($2,500/$3,500/$5,000) and the second-highest amount ($900) is too large IMO, and regular four-digit amounts were still on the wheel until......2001?
/Prefers the "special" wedges from 1975.
//Especially in the "compass" layout from the '74 pilots.
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Okay, Toss-Ups are more entertaining than being told that numbers were drawn backstage.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245577\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 03:06 PM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Fiono Coyne\' post=\'245575\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:55 PM\']- Beginning in the late 80s in the bonus round, the contestant was given RSTLNE automatically.[/quote]
I've seen October 1988 for this one...the same time they started offering the "WHEEL" envelopes.
[/quote]
October 1988 is right for contestants being given RSTLNE in the bonus round. I believe the WHEEL envelopes for the bonus round were introduced at the start of the 1989-1990 syndie season.
Rick
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[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'245572\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:36 PM\'][quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245561\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 11:49 AM\']Toss-Up Puzzles (I hate that time is taken away from actual spinning)[/quote]I've never really understood the dislike for toss-up puzzles, since we get three more pieces of gameplay and it doesn't take more than 30 seconds, if that, from "real" traditional gameplay. With toss-ups, you get more material for your entertainment buck.[/quote]
You get more material for someone's entertainment when Jack flashes his Wagner during the SCSD, but it still takes up 30 seconds which could be used for game play.
[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'245572\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:36 PM\'][quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245561\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 11:49 AM\']we seldom if ever get to see a complete 4th round w/the $5,000 space played any longer.[/quote]I've seen a lot more full fourth and fifth rounds this past season than any I can remember since the toss-ups started.[/quote]
Well, Chad, the fourth and fifth rounds used to be extremely common. I don't think I could tell you when I last saw a show where all three contestants had an opportunity to spin the wheel with the $5,000 wedge in play.
[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'245595\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 07:48 PM\']Okay, Toss-Ups are more entertaining than being told that numbers were drawn backstage.[/quote]
They only drew numbers once.
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[quote name=\'ClockGameJohn\' post=\'245598\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 08:39 PM\']but it still takes up 30 seconds which could be used for game play.[/quote]Is a toss-up puzzle suddenly not gameplay? It's a fairer way to decide who starts off with control and we're getting more game.
[quote name=\'ClockGameJohn\' post=\'245598\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 08:39 PM\']Well, Chad, the fourth and fifth rounds used to be extremely common.[/quote]Sure they were. But we also had a minute or two extra and less in-show sponsoring. The toss-up puzzles add more puzzles per show than what we had with the older format. (5-7 then vs. At least 8 now, sometimes 9 or 10.)
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[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'245599\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 07:51 PM\'][quote name=\'ClockGameJohn\' post=\'245598\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 08:39 PM\']but it still takes up 30 seconds which could be used for game play.[/quote]Is a toss-up puzzle suddenly not gameplay? It's a fairer way to decide who starts off with control and we're getting more game.
[/quote]
Yeah, but I'd have to think the advantage lies in starting Round 3, when top dollar is higher and prizes are often still unclaimed on the wheel. It's not like we go around the horn again and start Round 4 with the player who started Round 1. If we did, then maybe there'd be more of an incentive to solve the $2K tossup.
Regardless of that, my biggest problem lies with the Prize Puzzle and its steroid-like effect on gameplay.
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'245595\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 06:48 PM\']Okay, Toss-Ups are more entertaining than being told that numbers were drawn backstage.[/quote]
Pretty much, I believe drawing numbers determined where you stood during the game.
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[quote name=\'Jeremy Nelson\' post=\'245600\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 06:31 PM\']Yeah, but I'd have to think the advantage lies in starting Round 3, when top dollar is higher and prizes are often still unclaimed on the wheel. It's not like we go around the horn again and start Round 4 with the player who started Round 1. If we did, then maybe there'd be more of an incentive to solve the $2K tossup.[/quote] I would absolutely be OK if a Toss-up was played before each round, but only for the first spin of the round, and not money.
Regardless of that, my biggest problem lies with the Prize Puzzle and its steroid-like effect on gameplay.
Oog, this certainly doesn't help.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Fiono Coyne\' post=\'245575\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 02:55 PM\']- Beginning in the late 80s in the bonus round, the contestant was given RSTLNE automatically.
- The speed-up round time to guess the puzzle was reduced to 3 seconds instead of 5 in..was it 2002?
- In season 14, the top 3 players of the week returned on Friday to compete.
--Jamie[/quote]
Actually, the time to solve a puzzle in the Speed-Up Round was cut from 5 to 3 seconds at around May 1998. I was a contestant from the 1/27 and 1/30/1998 shows, and our solving time was 5 seconds. This is one rule change I'm glad they changed. Five seconds was way too long. On my first show, we played six rounds, and started on rounds 1/4.
The second show didn't have a speed-up round, as, after five rounds, there literally was no time left to edit in a 6th round. Thank God. Had my (yellow) opponent, Susan Fisher solved the 4th or 5th rounds with $1,986 or more, I would have narrowly lost my 2nd (Friday Finals) game. When Susan lost control in round 5, I knew the puzzle solution, spun the wheel (hoping for $5,000--but landed on $600), called 3 L's in the puzzle and immediately solved a very poignant puzzle:
I KNEW IT ALL ALONG
Pat's reaction was: "I figured, as much!"
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"And after Round 1, Sally, thanks to the Jackpot space, the trip space, and the Prize Puzzle, you have $26,758! We'll scuttle through two-and-a-half all but meaningless rounds before we see if I can land this thing on $5,000 in a single try, but probably will get it on $300 instead, after this!"
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Originally when you landed on a prize, you immediately picked up that prize wedge then guessed a letter for the money amount that was underneath.
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[quote name=\'Mark McNeil\' post=\'245609\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 12:37 AM\']Originally when you landed on a prize, you immediately picked up that prize wedge then guessed a letter for the money amount that was underneath.[/quote]
I always preferred this game play over the current "land on the wedge, call a letter, then pick it up" method.
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[quote name=\'Sodboy13\' post=\'245607\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 10:36 PM\']"And after Round 1, Sally, thanks to the Jackpot space, the trip space, and the Prize Puzzle, you have $26,758! We'll scuttle through two-and-a-half all but meaningless rounds before we see if I can land this thing on $5,000 in a single try, but probably will get it on $300 instead, after this!"[/quote]
...and that's exactly how I feel after a Prize Puzzle. I honestly wouldn't be opposed to prize puzzles, wedge prizes, and gift tags not counting toward a player's final score.
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[quote name=\'Jeremy Nelson\' post=\'245612\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 01:09 AM\'][quote name=\'Sodboy13\' post=\'245607\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 10:36 PM\']"And after Round 1, Sally, thanks to the Jackpot space, the trip space, and the Prize Puzzle, you have $26,758! We'll scuttle through two-and-a-half all but meaningless rounds before we see if I can land this thing on $5,000 in a single try, but probably will get it on $300 instead, after this!"[/quote]
...and that's exactly how I feel after a Prize Puzzle. I honestly wouldn't be opposed to prize puzzles, wedge prizes, and gift tags not counting toward a player's final score.
[/quote]
THIS.
/stupid prize puzzle.
//i woulda won it all.
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'245582\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 01:13 PM\'][quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'245572\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 01:36 PM\']Because it's a lot easier to make it a blanket rule than to say "we'll add $1,000 UNLESS you land on $5,000 because you don't need any more money, you greedy heathens."[/quote]
You're not the one doing the landing--this is Sajak's spin. Adding the $1,000 to a lower amount makes sense. Adding it to the $5,000 I think is overkill.[/quote]
Chad's right here. Having to explain why you're not adding the $1000 is just ugly and looks cheap.
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When the show first started, the categories were usually the general types(People Places. Things. etc...). Now we have things like On the Map, What Are You Doing? & my favorite, as Charle O'Donnel would say, "ROCK ON!". Is it me or have categoreis become too speciffic?
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Not too specific so much as misleading or useless.
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PROPER NAME
UTAH JAZZ
'nuff said
/in the BONUS round no less'
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'245614\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 12:49 AM\'][quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'245582\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 01:13 PM\'][quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'245572\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 01:36 PM\']Because it's a lot easier to make it a blanket rule than to say "we'll add $1,000 UNLESS you land on $5,000 because you don't need any more money, you greedy heathens."[/quote]
You're not the one doing the landing--this is Sajak's spin. Adding the $1,000 to a lower amount makes sense. Adding it to the $5,000 I think is overkill.[/quote]
Chad's right here. Having to explain why you're not adding the $1000 is just ugly and looks cheap.
[/quote]
See, I'm not sure an explanation is needed. Wasn't it the case that when the "add $1,000" nugget was first implemented that it didn't apply if Sajak landed on the $5,000?
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I would absolutely be OK if a Toss-up was played before each round, but only for the first spin of the round, and not money.
That is how it works currently in Italy. There is an opening toss-up for €500, plus another at the beginning of each round which gives the first spin and a €500 head start (it can be lost to bankrupt or spent on vowels). There are usually 5 rounds in an episode, which means 6 toss-ups every game.
Regardless of that, my biggest problem lies with the Prize Puzzle and its steroid-like effect on gameplay.Oog, this certainly doesn\'t help.
In Italy additional prizes like trips or Surprises don\'t count towards the final score.
In Spain instead the prizes count, but they aren\'t really game breaking. I like how they put the Jackpot round in the end as it is usually enough to win the game with it alone.
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'245625\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 07:30 AM\']See, I'm not sure an explanation is needed. Wasn't it the case that when the "add $1,000" nugget was first implemented that it didn't apply if Sajak landed on the $5,000?[/quote]
If it was, then it was a stupid rule and should have been changed to its current state.
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[quote name=\'toetyper\' post=\'245624\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 06:58 AM\']PROPER NAME
UTAH JAZZ
'nuff said
/in the BONUS round no less'[/quote]
Really, enough was said when you banged on this particular drum the first time (http://\"http://gameshow.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=19754&view=findpost&p=237017\").
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'245631\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 01:16 PM\']Really, enough was said when you banged on this particular drum the first time (http://\"http://gameshow.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=19754&view=findpost&p=237017\").[/quote]
The FIRST time? (http://\"http://gameshow.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=19560&view=findpost&p=235333\")
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'245631\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 01:16 PM\'][quote name=\'toetyper\' post=\'245624\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 06:58 AM\']PROPER NAME
UTAH JAZZ
'nuff said
/in the BONUS round no less'[/quote]
Really, enough was said when you banged on this particular drum the first time (http://\"http://gameshow.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=19754&view=findpost&p=237017\").
[/quote]
Just to clarify:
[quote name=\'New Oxford American Dictionary\']proper noun |ˈprɑpər naʊn| (also proper name)
noun
a name used for an individual person, place, or organization, spelled with initial capital letters, e.g., Larry, Mexico, and Boston Red Sox.[/quote]
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'245634\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 11:41 AM\']The FIRST time? (http://\"http://gameshow.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=19560&view=findpost&p=235333\")[/quote]
Heh. Didn't even remember that one. That's moving into "good lord shut the hell UP about it already" territory.
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Another can of worms, another Pandora's box I have opened. Calgon, take us away!!!
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Even if he did bring up an old point for the umpteenth time, the puzzle-writing (as I've mentioned umpteen times) has had evolved (Devolved?) from simple to descriptive, to just gratuitous. Perhaps it's to offer contestants the chance to win more money, but I really don't need ACADEMY AWARD WINNING ACTRESS SANDRA BULLOCK when SANDRA BULLOCK will merely do. And don't even get me started on the adjective-heavy puzzles like "A PLAYFUL KITTEN" or "AN AMAZING WATERFRONT VIEW".
Then again, a longer puzzle could eat away at more time, thus preventing the show from doing twelve rounds, so maybe in the end they save a little money or break even compared to doing a bunch of 2-3 word puzzles.
Honestly, I do miss the basic PERSON/PLACE/THING puzzles, and Pat's "Person doesn't always mean proper thing," but it doesn't bother me nearly as much as some of the goofy stuff they classified as an EVENT. Unfortunately, that led to the even goofier WHAT ARE YOU DOING? puzzles.
Also, the number of theme weeks has increased to where it almost seems to be every week. I know some date back to the early-90s (Couples Week, My Favorite Teacher), but some have gotten kinda silly (Pet Lovers Week?).
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245638\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 04:07 PM\']but some have gotten kinda silly (Pet Lovers Week?).[/quote]Sir, anything that leads to a Betty White cameo (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LQRau2SXk0\") is inherently awesome.
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[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'245639\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 04:13 PM\'][quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245638\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 04:07 PM\']but some have gotten kinda silly (Pet Lovers Week?).[/quote]Sir, anything that leads to a Betty White cameo (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LQRau2SXk0\") is inherently awesome.
[/quote]
Okay, an asterisk next to Pet Lover's Week. :-)
That also just demonstrated how to do a celebrity cameo without being too over-the-top or doing too much.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245638\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 04:07 PM\']Even if he did bring up an old point for the umpteenth time, the puzzle-writing (as I've mentioned umpteen times) has had evolved (Devolved?) from simple to descriptive, to just gratuitous. Perhaps it's to offer contestants the chance to win more money, but I really don't need ACADEMY AWARD WINNING ACTRESS SANDRA BULLOCK when SANDRA BULLOCK will merely do. And don't even get me started on the adjective-heavy puzzles like "A PLAYFUL KITTEN" or "AN AMAZING WATERFRONT VIEW".[/quote]
I would guess the extremely successful producers of the extremely successful show have their reasons for preferring longer puzzles. In general, when you're putting a lot more letters on the board, you're getting more spins per round, bigger banks at risk, and greater opportunities for dramatic moments both good and bad. Once again, the difference between raw "game" and entertaining "show".
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[quote name=\'SuperMatch93\' post=\'245564\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 11:40 AM\'][quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245561\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 10:49 AM\']New puzzle board[/quote]
Originally 36 spaces, expanded to 42 or 48 (i think) in 1981, border changed around 1995, touchscreens and new border added in 1997, neonization in 2003 or 4[/quote]
The board expanded again to 52 when they went to touchscreens.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'245641\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 03:30 PM\'][quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245638\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 04:07 PM\']Even if he did bring up an old point for the umpteenth time, the puzzle-writing (as I've mentioned umpteen times) has had evolved (Devolved?) from simple to descriptive, to just gratuitous. Perhaps it's to offer contestants the chance to win more money, but I really don't need ACADEMY AWARD WINNING ACTRESS SANDRA BULLOCK when SANDRA BULLOCK will merely do. And don't even get me started on the adjective-heavy puzzles like "A PLAYFUL KITTEN" or "AN AMAZING WATERFRONT VIEW".[/quote]
I would guess the extremely successful producers of the extremely successful show[/quote]Well, it makes me wonder if people truly watch the show because its entertaining/fun, or because its out of habit/tradition. Commonly, its reported the demographics of TPiR. I'd be interested to see what they are for WoF.
I know that around here, its either WoF, ET, or off-network sitcom reruns. I go with Redtube.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'245644\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 02:34 PM\']Well, it makes me wonder if people truly watch the show because its entertaining/fun, or because its out of habit/tradition.[/quote]
Potential advertiser: "Well, we were about to sign up for a huge campaign on your show, but we found out people tune you in every day for different reasons. We'd hate to have eyeballs that don't truly like the million dollar wedge."
I think it's fair to say that the show has expanded in all these ways because of the attention span of its viewers. This isn't a "kids these days!" fist-shaking-at-the-TV comment, but rather observations from watching the reruns. The earlier shows had contestants claw and scratch to solve "TAKE A HIKE" or "RICHARD DREYFUSS" for shopping money. When that was starting to wear thin, you saw prizes come on the wheel and a bonus round added. As that was getting same-old, you had the $10,000 wedge and the Jackpot round. And so on. The longer puzzles yield more money, more chances to pick up all the special schtuff, and when used properly, can balance out the gluts of money from the various added events.
In particular, those '88 shows GSN ran into the ground had me looking at my watch. Puzzle after puzzle with mostly cash on the wheel. In 2010, I can point to some things I don't care for (TV Title? Movie Title? Why?), but most of the basic appeal is still there. The way they use those SPIN IDs is a great way to go after that crowd that can actually sit through call-in shows every single hour and blitz the switchboard for a DVD player.
-Jason
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'245569\' date=\'Aug 8 2010, 12:55 PM\']Sometime during 1987, they did a "special month of cash" to test the format (during a sweeps month maybe?) I can't recall if they went back to shopping for a while before they made the switch to cash permanent, or if they just continued with it after the "special month" was over. Anyone remember?[/quote]Yes. They just continued with it without going back to shopping. Paraphrasing what Merv Griffin was quoted as saying in USA TODAY about it, "Once you make a change like that, you can't go back".
When it supposed to be a one-month-only event during October 1987, Jack Clark pimped it as the Big Bonanza Of Cash.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'245644\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 04:34 PM\']I know that around here, its either WoF, ET, or off-network sitcom reruns. I go with Redtube.[/quote]
Well, who's to say you can't multitask? Could make guessing the puzzles harder.
/among other things?
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245638\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 01:07 PM\']WHAT ARE YOU DOING?[/quote]
The only puzzle that fits this is:
PLAYING HANGMAN FOR EXCESSIVE CASH AND PRIZES
;)
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[quote name=\'toetyper\' post=\'245624\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 08:58 AM\']PROPER NAME
UTAH JAZZ
'nuff said
/in the BONUS round no less'[/quote]
Are you a fan of a rival team in the Northwest Division, by any chance?
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[quote name=\'Hastin\' post=\'245648\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 07:09 PM\'][quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245638\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 01:07 PM\']WHAT ARE YOU DOING?[/quote]
The only puzzle that fits this is:
PLAYING HANGMAN FOR EXCESSIVE CASH AND PRIZES
;)
[/quote]
Wrong: FANTASIZING ABOUT VANNA WHITE would also fit. :-p
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[quote name=\'Fedya\' post=\'245653\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 08:29 PM\']Wrong: FANTASIZING ABOUT VANNA WHITE would also fit. :-p[/quote]
Paging Mark DeMorra... Paging Mark DeMorra... ;)
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[quote name=\'toetyper\' post=\'245624\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 06:58 AM\']'nuff said[/quote]This is perhaps the "best part" of his stance. That he doesn't bother to actually defend his position, but dismisses all other arguments with "nuff said."
[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245637\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 12:34 PM\']Another can of worms, another Pandora's box I have opened. Calgon, take us away!!![/quote]Well, what did you expect? There's only so far you can take a thread of "list things that fit topic X" before people start talking about it. The whole exercise gives off an air of "Look! I'm contributing!"
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245638\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 01:07 PM\']Perhaps it's to offer contestants the chance to win more money, but I really don't need ACADEMY AWARD WINNING ACTRESS SANDRA BULLOCK when SANDRA BULLOCK will merely do.[/quote]A shorter puzzle will probably take longer because you have more people guessing wrong letters and letting the turn move along. A longer puzzle 1) allows more money to build up in the banks because 2) there are more letters on the board and 3) is shorter because you have fewer wrong guesses because of 2. If I'm a contestant, I want the longer puzzles because of the money and the chance to keep my turn that much longer, but as a viewer it borders on tedious as the contestants grope to fill in the adjectives that are paired with the actor or actress in the puzzle.
I think it's fair to say that the show has expanded in all these ways because of the attention span of its viewers.
I will sit through an awful lot. One of the things I will not do is sit through an advertisement that has been camouflaged as content. Do not come back from a break and tell me that the Jackpot Round is brought to me by Hot Pockets, because I will watch something else.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'245656\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 09:57 PM\']Do not come back from a break and tell me that the Jackpot Round is brought to me by Hot Pockets, because I will watch something else.[/quote]I fail to see how this is any different than being welcomed to What's My Line, brought to us by Stopette - Poof! There goes perspiration.
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[quote name=\'J.R.\' post=\'245654\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 09:33 PM\'][quote name=\'Fedya\' post=\'245653\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 08:29 PM\']Wrong: FANTASIZING ABOUT VANNA WHITE would also fit. :-p[/quote]
Paging Mark DeMorra... Paging Mark DeMorra... ;)
[/quote]
*Jerks Head up*
WOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOWOWWOWOWWOWOWWWOW
*SPLOOGE*
*faints*
Then on a side note, the fact this thread is 5 pages long makes my head spin... whether because of there being that many gimmicks done over the years or because it's delved into when one gimmick started then got canned, or some combination thereof... still... ugh :P
Considering the gimmickry... How does one say the game, itself, has gone off track/somewhat lost focus in GS speak?
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I'd contend that Jeopardy could have a sizable thread, too.
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'245661\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 07:24 PM\']I'd contend that Jeopardy could have a sizable thread, too.[/quote]
Which does not make it a good idea.
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I seem to remember having a handheld Wheel of Fortune game which picked up some sort of signal (?) from the broadcast which loaded the current puzzle into the device so you could play along.
Anybody?
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[quote name=\'Thunder\' post=\'245663\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 08:03 PM\']I seem to remember having a handheld Wheel of Fortune game which picked up some sort of signal (?) from the broadcast which loaded the current puzzle into the device so you could play along.
Anybody?[/quote]Yup, that existed. You could also key in your own puzzles, too.
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[quote name=\'Thunder\' post=\'245663\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 08:03 PM\']I seem to remember having a handheld Wheel of Fortune game which picked up some sort of signal (?) from the broadcast which loaded the current puzzle into the device so you could play along.[/quote]
You probably did. (http://\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_of_Fortune_%28video_game%29#Play-along_versions\")
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'245664\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 11:10 PM\'][quote name=\'Thunder\' post=\'245663\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 08:03 PM\']I seem to remember having a handheld Wheel of Fortune game which picked up some sort of signal (?) from the broadcast which loaded the current puzzle into the device so you could play along.
Anybody?[/quote]Yup, that existed. You could also key in your own puzzles, too.[/quote]
Surprisingly, one of the few home versions that allowed you to do that.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245638\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 04:07 PM\']Even if he did bring up an old point for the umpteenth time, the puzzle-writing (as I've mentioned umpteen times) has had evolved (Devolved?) from simple to descriptive, to just gratuitous.[/quote]
And has also been mentioned umpteen times, the many Bonus Round puzzles that have either Unnecessary "A"/"AN" At The Beginning, Gratuitous Vowels, Words Randomly Grouped, or Gratuitous Obscure Letters. It gets annoying when you can tell they don't want the contestant to win -- and awesome when the contestant wins anyway.
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245638\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 04:07 PM\']Also, the number of theme weeks has increased to where it almost seems to be every week. I know some date back to the early-90s (Couples Week, My Favorite Teacher), but some have gotten kinda silly (Pet Lovers Week?).[/quote]
Just be glad they haven't seen this post (http://\"http://www.golden-road.net/index.php/topic,11472.msg177197.html#msg177197\"). Be very, very glad. ;)
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[quote name=\'Thunder\' post=\'245663\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 10:03 PM\']I seem to remember having a handheld Wheel of Fortune game which picked up some sort of signal (?) from the broadcast which loaded the current puzzle into the device so you could play along.
Anybody?[/quote]
I still own mine, in fact...which is an incredible feat when you consider that, going by the dates on the bottom of the unit I was all of four years old at the time.
I brought it with me when the Wheelmobile came around to the suburbs a couple years ago. Setting up puzzles and letting the people around me play was a great way to kill time and meet people instead of sitting around like a bump on a log all day.
They also made some 'puzzle packs' for it...VHS tapes loaded with puzzles that you could point the unit at and play that way. Found one at a Salvation Army a few months back for 50 cents.
-
I always wondered how the heck those things worked
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I have mine somewhere but, as with it seems most things mentioned here, it's in a box after last summer's move.
[quote name=\'Mr. Armadillo\' post=\'245676\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 09:23 AM\']They also made some 'puzzle packs' for it...VHS tapes loaded with puzzles that you could point the unit at and play that way. Found one at a Salvation Army a few months back for 50 cents.[/quote]
When GSN reran eps. from the late 80s/early 90s, the signal for the game remained intact. It was fun getting some bang for the 15-year-old buck.
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[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'245668\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 09:02 PM\']It gets annoying when you can tell they don't want the contestant to win -- and awesome when the contestant "Fries the Friedman".[/quote]They do what now?
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'245682\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 11:02 AM\'][quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'245668\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 09:02 PM\']It gets annoying when you can tell they don't want the contestant to win -- and awesome when the contestant "Fries the Friedman".[/quote]They do what now?[/quote]
He did an alliteration! HE'S FUNNEH!
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245638\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 01:07 PM\']Perhaps it's to offer contestants the chance to win more money, but I really don't need ACADEMY AWARD WINNING ACTRESS SANDRA BULLOCK when SANDRA BULLOCK will merely do.
A shorter puzzle will probably take longer because you have more people guessing wrong letters and letting the turn move along. A longer puzzle 1) allows more money to build up in the banks because 2) there are more letters on the board and 3) is shorter because you have fewer wrong guesses because of 2. If I'm a contestant, I want the longer puzzles because of the money and the chance to keep my turn that much longer, but as a viewer it borders on tedious as the contestants grope to fill in the adjectives that are paired with the actor or actress in the puzzle.[/quote]
I want to say that they want longer puzzles in the rounds so as to make the contestants look less stupid than they really are. Giving puzzles which have nearly every friggin letter in the alphabet makes each contestant "look" smarter because there's less of a chance that they will call a letter which isn't there. Contestants still have the shot to show they're as dumb as a box of rocks when they land on $5000 and ask for the single 'X' when there are still five hidden 'R's on the board.
I'd much rather see shorter puzzles that have the potential to give every player at least one chance to spin in each round, rather than have puzzles like "PACKING MY BOX WITH FIVE DOZEN LIQUOR JUGS" where every letter is there and whoever starts the round is likely to "run the board".
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'245684\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 11:43 AM\']I'd much rather see shorter puzzles that have the potential to give every player at least one chance to spin in each round, rather than have puzzles like "PACKING MY BOX WITH FIVE DOZEN LIQUOR JUGS" where every letter is there and whoever starts the round is likely to "run the board".[/quote]
But again we come back to the crux of the matter. I'll grant you that shorter puzzles with fewer letters present a greater challenge to the contestants. That, arguably, makes for a better game. But do lots and lots of wrong answers and getting nowhere make for a more interesting show for a viewer to watch?
Also, remember, we in this forum are the game players. Our mileage definitely varies.
/I do like PACKING MY BOX WITH FIVE DOZEN LIQUOR JUGS though. Both as a puzzle and as an activity.
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I guess THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPED OVER THE LAZY DOGS wouldn't be a good puzzle either? :)
/That's the sentence we did over and over in typing to get to know where all the letters were
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'245685\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 11:30 AM\'][quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'245684\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 11:43 AM\']I'd much rather see shorter puzzles that have the potential to give every player at least one chance to spin in each round, rather than have puzzles like "PACKING MY BOX WITH FIVE DOZEN LIQUOR JUGS" where every letter is there and whoever starts the round is likely to "run the board".[/quote]
But again we come back to the crux of the matter. I'll grant you that shorter puzzles with fewer letters present a greater challenge to the contestants. That, arguably, makes for a better game. But do lots and lots of wrong answers and getting nowhere make for a more interesting show for a viewer to watch?
Also, remember, we in this forum are the game players. Our mileage definitely varies.
/I do like PACKING MY BOX WITH FIVE DOZEN LIQUOR JUGS though. Both as a puzzle and as an activity.
[/quote]
As much as I'd like to say "Screw Americans, this isn't that hard", both sides have valid points. Here's my thing; I'd rather see the shorter puzzles, too. Gameplay moves along at a quick enough pace as to not lose the viewers, not to mention that the wheel doesn't take as long to stop as in the early days. Back when spinning had a lot more suspense to it, it could spin for a good 10 seconds on a normal strength spin. Now, it's quicker and allows more letters to get called. I say shorten the puzzles.
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[quote name=\'Jeremy Nelson\' post=\'245688\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 04:45 PM\']As much as I'd like to say "Screw Americans, this isn't that hard", both sides have valid points. Here's my thing; I'd rather see the shorter puzzles, too. Gameplay moves along at a quick enough pace as to not lose the viewers, not to mention that the wheel doesn't take as long to stop as in the early days. Back when spinning had a lot more suspense to it, it could spin for a good 10 seconds on a normal strength spin. Now, it's quicker and allows more letters to get called. I say shorten the puzzles.[/quote]
I'd agree, especially with the idea that it could... possibly... contribute to hopefully never having to go straight into Speed-up at the start of R4 AGAIN. This is, as long as they aren't specifically placed in R4 (it doesn't do much for your drama to have a 5k space on the wheel when 3rd place is probably behind by over $10k and there are only four or five legit consonants to call in a puzzle) and the short puzzles aren't along the lines of OXIDIZED, RAVE REVIEWS, or HO CHI MINH (which are legit puzzles of course, and ones the show actually used, but in practice, took too damn long to get through with the show's caliber of contestants).
But no, knowing the current production establishment... I'd fear that would be exactly what would happen...
-
Keep in mind, too, that if the turn goes through all three players and back to the beginning without affecting the scores (nobody adds to their score and nobody loses money to a failed vowel purchase or a Bankrupt), they'll edit out the three non-advancement turns to fit in more gameplay. This theoretically could make shorter puzzles more attractive -- although there are issues with the extra editing and adjusting the timing of the show on the fly.
So since they're still tending toward the longer puzzles, I'd also guess that they prefer the higher stakes that longer puzzles can bring.
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[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'245668\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 09:02 PM\']and awesome when the contestant "Fries the Friedman".[/quote]You are not One of Us. The more you do this sort of dumbassery, the less you're ever going to be One of Us. You may as well stop while you're behind. The Game Show Forum is not TV Tropes or Wikipedia, so please stop trying to turn it into them.
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'245685\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 09:30 AM\']Also, remember, we in this forum are the game players. Our mileage definitely varies.[/quote]And that's the thing. If you want the best player to win, you take away the wheel, and the money and whoever solves the most puzzles is your winner. But that isn't very show-y at all.
The problem (that I have with the show) is that "winning on Wheel of Fortune" doesn't equate to "being the best player", and that you really can't have a best player with a game that relies that much on luck. Winning on Wheel is like winning a golf tournament: you were the best player that day. Assuming your players have a passing knowledge of spelling or American culture, anyone can win. One rotten spin and you're cooked. Or one spin and you're independently wealthy. Win a particular puzzle and you get a huge boost to your score, as much as you might get for taking a big risk or for solving at just the right time.
But even as a youngster, I didn't watch to see the best player showered with cash and prizes and adoration from millions. I liked playing along and feeling smug that I was the first in the family to have the solution. The fact that there was a game going on was almost secondary.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'245704\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 12:19 AM\']Winning on Wheel is like winning a golf tournament: you were the best player that day.[/quote]
Very well put, sir. I will say this though- the right player can not only control the game (as best you can when playing Hangman), but control the wheel as well. I remember playing the old WoF games on the NES; on the hardest difficulty, you might as well go grab a drink when the computer played; they were pretty close to invincible. So when my turn came about, I'd adjust my spinning strength so that I'd hit that 14/15 space area where there were no penalty spaces every time.
Same applies to Wheel; correct me if I'm wrong here. If you know the wheel goes 13 spaces at your normal spinning strength, and that a Bankrupt or Lose A Turn is 12-14 spaces near, you either spin daintily or with roid rage. Same case if Top Dollar is in that area; you wait until it's within your spinning range to call for your 4 Ts.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'245704\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 12:19 AM\']You are not One of Us. The more you do this sort of dumbassery, the less you're ever going to be One of Us. You may as well stop while you're behind. The Game Show Forum is not TV Tropes or Wikipedia, so please stop trying to turn it into them.[/quote]
I shall list this under "Crowning Moment of Awesome".
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[quote name=\'TLEberle @ Aug 11 2010 12:19 AM\']The problem (that I have with the show) is that "winning on Wheel of Fortune" doesn't equate to "being the best player"[/quote] Wheel is certainly not alone in that regard, A smart player in TJW could get 95% of their questions right and their opponent could still win the game because they managed to spin 3 jokers and nail an easy question from whatever category they picked. (or simply just spun the 3 joker's in the early shows) There are other shows too like Press Your Luck (although that's more deliberately slanted toward luck than skill obviously) and High Rollers (again smart player answers 95% of their questions correctly, but their not-as-smart opponent answers correctly once, passes the dice to the smart player and (s)he rolls a bad roll.
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[quote name=\'MSTieScott\' post=\'245695\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 10:18 PM\']Keep in mind, too, that if the turn goes through all three players and back to the beginning without affecting the scores (nobody adds to their score and nobody loses money to a failed vowel purchase or a Bankrupt), they'll edit out the three non-advancement turns to fit in more gameplay. This theoretically could make shorter puzzles more attractive -- although there are issues with the extra editing and adjusting the timing of the show on the fly.
So since they're still tending toward the longer puzzles, I'd also guess that they prefer the higher stakes that longer puzzles can bring.[/quote]
The only problem with this theory, and I understand what you're saying I think...Suppose all 3 players spin a dollar amount, all 3 call consonants that are not in the puzzle? If that gets edited out, we, the home viewer, will never know what 3 consonants were already called, yet that event happening would, in effect, not affect the scores at all. If on the other hand all 3 hit Lose A Turn, or all 3 hit Bankrupt in succession, I could see them editing that out perhaps.
And yes, it's true, the later round can, and often does, give you a winner. One person could solve all 3 toss-ups, and all 3 of the first 3 round puzzles, and one lucky $6,000 spin and a few consonants could win the game for someone else who had solved 0 puzzles up until that moment. Family Feud, the first few rounds really in essence mean next to nothing. Jeopardy! Someone could answer twice as many clues, but one lucky selection of a Daily Double, or one come from behind victory in Final Jeopardy, in essence making just 1 clue really all that matters decide the game, all can make the rest of the game itself seem almost pointless, kind of like the $100 Super Password puzzle. The winner of that first round got $100, which is better than Turtle Wax, but as far as it deciding the game's outcome, it never did. In essence, Super Password was the best 2 out of 3 puzzles, with the first puzzle being more or less a "warm up". So I guess it all depends on how you look at the semantics (sp?) of the game. Most every game played, on tv, or in parlors, have some elements of luck to them. And while we might bemoan the fact that one person solving 6 puzzles loses to a lucky stiff who just happened to get 6 T's in a speed up puzzle where the wheel landed on the $5,000 space, the other side of this coin is, all 3 players play with the same wheel, by the same rules, so if it can happen to one, it can happen to one of the other 2 just as easily. That being said, I always preferred games of knowledge, skill & strategy, perhaps with a little luck thrown in. Tic Tac Dough's main game (before they had all those dopey red boxes polluting the board) & Blockbusters are 2 shining examples that spring to mind.
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All the back and forth of the past couple of pages seem to boil down to a main point: in the genre of "game show", where do we strike the balance between "game" and "show"?
Quite a few of us fall in the camp of believing that the game has taken too much of a backseat to the show here. Unfortunately, there is not a lot to be done about that; after all, we are not their target audience.
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[quote name=\'wheelloon\' post=\'245690\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 05:21 PM\']OXIDIZED, RAVE REVIEWS, or HO CHI MINH (which are legit puzzles of course, and ones the show actually used, but in practice, took too damn long to get through with the show's caliber of contestants).[/quote]
It doesn't really matter what caliber of contestants you've got if you're trying to get them to guess OXIDIZED...there's no way you're going to get more than three letters revealed before the only consonants left are J, Q, Z, and X. I have to dispute the claim that that puzzle is 'legitimate', whatever that means.
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[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245708\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 03:54 AM\']If on the other hand all 3 hit Lose A Turn, or all 3 hit Bankrupt in succession, I could see them editing that out perhaps.[/quote]
I agree on three Lose a Turn spins in succession.
As for Bankrupts, the producers might get calls regarding all scores being zeroed from one shot to the next.
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[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245708\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 03:54 AM\']Suppose all 3 players spin a dollar amount, all 3 call consonants that are not in the puzzle? If that gets edited out, we, the home viewer, will never know what 3 consonants were already called, yet that event happening would, in effect, not affect the scores at all.[/quote]
Yes, but we've already established that the primary focus of "Wheel of Fortune" is to show a contestant build up a big bank and then additionally win a trip to Jamaica for solving the Prize Puzzle. And in the pursuit of that goal, not telling your audience that the T and the H have already been called isn't a big deal.
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[quote name=\'Mr. Armadillo\' post=\'245714\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 09:21 AM\'][quote name=\'wheelloon\' post=\'245690\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 05:21 PM\']OXIDIZED, RAVE REVIEWS, or HO CHI MINH (which are legit puzzles of course, and ones the show actually used, but in practice, took too damn long to get through with the show's caliber of contestants).[/quote]
It doesn't really matter what caliber of contestants you've got if you're trying to get them to guess OXIDIZED...there's no way you're going to get more than three letters revealed before the only consonants left are J, Q, Z, and X. I have to dispute the claim that that puzzle is 'legitimate', whatever that means.
[/quote]
Legitimate only in the regard that it COULD be used as a puzzle (not some smattering of random words like CUP MASK OF PANTS SCISSORS and calling it a "phrase," THAT is illegitimate), but no, I'd never use OXIDIZED as a puzzle if I was producer of the show. Then again... I wouldn't have had Megaword at all get close to making the cut (yes, that's what it fell under).
FTR, here is the puzzle in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHzQLXHFCoQ (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHzQLXHFCoQ\")
All the back and forth of the past couple of pages seem to boil down to a main point: in the genre of "game show", where do we strike the balance between "game" and "show"?
See, I don't think that anybody here will argue that the show, circa like 1985 to 1995 was definitely "show," but I think the differences come in whether or not, since then, the game has had too many wrenches thrown in to keep the game show-y and in turn, has hurt the game mechanic itself somehow. Some of the wrenches we, as individuals, might agree with or don't mind having there, some might think the opposite, and our reasons for such differ widely and because of what we expect to see from the show, possibly because of what we, at one time, used to associate with the show.
In my personal case, the "glamor factor" has been lost on Wheel with me, something I always used to hark on and on and on as a youngster about the show, as well as the ability to recognize and root for a good player who knows how the hell to play and what the concept of "letter blends" are, instead of spending half the show banging my head at the idiocy now...
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[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245708\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 01:54 AM\']Suppose all 3 players spin a dollar amount, all 3 call consonants that are not in the puzzle? If that gets edited out, we, the home viewer, will never know what 3 consonants were already called,[/quote]
That's right. And since you never see the Used Letter Board, that doesn't matter for you, as far as they are concerned.
And they're right. You're sitting at home saying "But this affects my ability to play along!" and the other 99.999999999999999999% of the viewership has no idea it's even happening. It certainly never leaps to the forefront of my mind and I seem to be able to still solve the puzzles well in advance of the players just fine.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'245729\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 01:24 PM\'][quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245708\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 01:54 AM\']Suppose all 3 players spin a dollar amount, all 3 call consonants that are not in the puzzle? If that gets edited out, we, the home viewer, will never know what 3 consonants were already called,[/quote]That's right. And since you never see the Used Letter Board, that doesn't matter for you, as far as they are concerned.
And they're right. You're sitting at home saying "But this affects my ability to play along!" and the other 99.999999999999999999% of the viewership has no idea it's even happening. It certainly never leaps to the forefront of my mind and I seem to be able to still solve the puzzles well in advance of the players just fine.[/quote]
And it really doesn't even prevent the players from calling them again. (They certainly shouldn't call them, of course, but they can.)
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[quote name=\'dale_grass\' post=\'245717\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 06:42 AM\'][quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245708\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 03:54 AM\']If on the other hand all 3 hit Lose A Turn, or all 3 hit Bankrupt in succession, I could see them editing that out perhaps.[/quote]
I agree on three Lose a Turn spins in succession.
As for Bankrupts, the producers might get calls regarding all scores being zeroed from one shot to the next.[/quote]
And I don't think they'd edit it if there were a score change involved.
As a real world example, this is how Round 2 started on my show (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwgYNVvuRL0\"): Lose A Turn, Bankrupt, bad letter (T), Bankrupt, Bankrupt. As spin #2 was slowing down, they cut to the wheel stopping on spin #5. It's actually semi-conspicuous if you're paying attention, given that the wheel is approaching the Jackpot space, then cuts to the Bankrupt on the other side of the wheel. And Pat seems overly exasperated for just two bad spins.
I have very mixed feelings on the whole thing. Purely from a viewer's perspective, I'd like to see everything. But then, that edit may have been what gave me just enough time to finish my comeback. If so, I <3 zealous editing!
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[quote name=\'Steve McClellan\' post=\'245742\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 02:31 PM\']As a real world example, this is how Round 2 started on my show (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwgYNVvuRL0\")[/quote]
Random thought: I think those scoreboards are superior to the ones WOF uses now, but that's me.
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[quote name=\'J.R.\' post=\'245758\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 05:50 PM\']Random thought: I think those scoreboards are superior to the ones WOF uses now, but that's me.[/quote]Compared to the ones they have now, the first displays make the numbers look squished. I prefer the current ones. (Here's a comparison. (http://\"http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7174/wofr.jpg\"))
/Oh God, here we go again.
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Shame we can't do April Fools on here - I'd start a thread saying "WHEEL SCOREBOARDS CHANGING TO COMIC SANS" and watch this place light up.
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[quote name=\'DrBear\' post=\'245760\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 06:07 PM\']I'd start a thread saying "WHEEL SCOREBOARDS CHANGING TO COMIC SANS" and watch this place light up.[/quote] No kidding, I didn't realize we had so many typophiles around these parts. Just make sure it's readable and I'm cool.
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[quote name=\'DrBear\' post=\'245760\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 06:07 PM\']Shame we can't do April Fools on here - I'd start a thread saying "WHEEL SCOREBOARDS CHANGING TO COMIC SANS" and watch this place light up.[/quote]
Please, no Comic Sans. (http://\"http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l5vadrsZCR1qbyxvqo1_400.jpg\")
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[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'245762\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 06:23 PM\'][quote name=\'DrBear\' post=\'245760\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 06:07 PM\']I'd start a thread saying "WHEEL SCOREBOARDS CHANGING TO COMIC SANS" and watch this place light up.[/quote] No kidding, I didn't realize we had so many typophiles around these parts.[/quote]
More accurately, we have a relative few who are disproportionately passionate about it.
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[quote name=\'DrBear\' post=\'245760\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 06:07 PM\']Shame we can't do April Fools on here - I'd start a thread saying "WHEEL SCOREBOARDS CHANGING TO COMIC SANS" and watch this place light up.[/quote]
Oh, come on. There's plenty of worse things (http://\"http://i34.tinypic.com/35lhwjm.jpg\") Wheel could do than that.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'245773\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 07:29 PM\']More accurately, we have a relative few who are disproportionately passionate about it.[/quote]
[font=\"Comic Sans MS\"]I've gotten eye rolls in the past when brining up font schemes used in demo textbooks.[/font] Just one of the things that snag my eyes.
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Just make everything look like a ransom note cut out of different newspapers.
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Wheel! Of! Comic Sans!
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq37/nowhammies10/WheelinComicSans.png)