Author Topic: Pulling a "Larsen" on WoF... (Read 14768 times)

Robert Hutchinson · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2003, 02:34:02 AM »

Wow, seems like I have a reply for every other post in this topic. Here we go . . .

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Has there ever been an instance where the wheel wasn't spun enough and they had to try again (ala TPIR Big wheel)

Yes, although it's usually because the contestant's hand slipped. If a contestant gives a pretty weak spin without slipping, Pat will usually just give them a warning to spin harder in the future.

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While I'm sure they've updated their \"bible\" a time or two since 1987, a paperback book about the show reprinted the official rules from that time, and there was a specific rule against, as they put it, a contestant trying to \"beat the house\" with a controlled spin.

I still feel fairly certain that that only applies to weak spins, simply because there's almost no way to say for certain that someone spinning the wheel one entire revolution is trying to hit a certain number. And, you know, just like controlled spins on TPIR, they're usually going to miss.

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I beleve Larsons were pulled quite frequently with the \"Free Spin Teritory\", resulting in a player acquiring a whole bevy of Free Spins.

On at least one occasion that I recall, Pat ran out of Free Spins. I believe they made careful note of how many Free Spins the contestant \"really\" had.

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There are a finite amount of letters that can be in the puzzle; there is a maximum amount that can be won in a round.

[nitpick]There is no set maximum amount that can be won in a Jackpot round.[/nitpick] (Unless there's a rules provision about an upper limit?)

vtown7 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2003, 07:17:08 AM »

I can attest that when I was on Wheel in 1997 there was a rule about \"beating the house\" in that you couldn't just move the wheel a tiny bit in an effort to hit TDV if it was, say, two wedges away.

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I'm sure we've all dreamed about hitting the $3500 ten times in a row then landing the mega-Jackpot with the last consonant.

Although it wasn't a \"mega-Jackpot\", one of my episodes featured a very high jackpot. I was in the yellow spot, and being that it round three, the blue player started. (This was pre-toss up time). He proceeded to spin $3500 three separate times before bankrupting on $18K. The girl in the red position then proceeded to spin up a $17,400 jackpot with about three consonants left, and missed. I spun $3500, got two letters, and with a $20,900 jackpot, declined to spin - taking my $7K for that round.

Out of curiosity, has anyone seen a $20K+ jackpot? I've never seen one save for my episode, and I imagine it would be hard to do now that the jackpot round has been moved to a $2500 TDV round (IIRC).

Cheers,

Ryan V.

WilliamPorygon · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2003, 07:38:22 AM »

[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 01:34 AM\'] There is no set maximum amount that can be won in a Jackpot round. (Unless there's a rules provision about an upper limit?) [/quote]
(Contestant 1 spins $3500)
Contestant 1: Is there a Z?
Pat: For the last time, no!!!
(Contestant 2 spins $3500)
Contestant 2: Is there a Z?
(Pat leaves the studio)

Anyway, there's no upper limit that I know about.

zachhoran · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2003, 08:17:20 AM »

[quote name=\'vtown7\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 06:17 AM\']
Out of curiosity, has anyone seen a $20K+ jackpot? I've never seen one save for my episode, and I imagine it would be hard to do now that the jackpot round has been moved to a $2500 TDV round (IIRC).

Cheers,

Ryan V. [/quote]
I think the Jackpot round(round two) still has the $3500 space on the Wheel during it, no? I don't pay as much attention to WOF these days, like a lot of others around here don't.

THere have been Jackpots at high as $25K or so I've seen. Back in the Friday finals format, the Jackpot started at $10K on Fridays for a time.

As for the JAckpot space on Daytime WOF from 1986-88(land on the space, solve the puzzle without hitting a Bankrupt, and win a cash jackpot starting at $1K and going up $1K a day until won), there were two occasions where THAT hit over $20K before being claimed.

Brandon Brooks · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2003, 07:00:11 PM »

[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 01:34 AM\'][nitpick]There is no set maximum amount that can be won in a Jackpot round.[/nitpick] (Unless there's a rules provision about an upper limit?)[/quote]
That's true, but even then, the event of all three contestants getting constanants wrong just to up the Jackpot is so unlikely that a \"Larsen\" wouldn't happen.

Here are some scenarios. Let's say that all players get stuck in the second round... for the remainder of the show.
1) They'll stop tape, tell the contestants to cut it out and reshoot the round again.
2) They'll keep going until time runs out.

They go into the final round, and no one will be able to win the jackpot.
The contestant in control will wait to the last possible minute, land on Jackpot before the bell sounds, and end the round, and more than likely win the game.

#1 will be the only one most likely to happen, and that's only if the contestants conspire or are really, really dumb. If the first part of the scenario ever happens, I'd put my money on because they were really, really dumb.

Brandon Brooks

Kevin Prather · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2003, 07:23:28 PM »

here is the problem with scenario #2...

there are no commercials until after round 2. if round 2 took up the remainder of the show, where would they put the commercials? would they chop it up in post? seems unlikely.

what i'm saying is, what if a contestant consistantly spins it once around, landing it on the big $$ spot, and after a few letters, figures out the puzzle, then extorts that knowledge to hit the big $$ every spin, and pick a correct letter every spin? (Oy, that was hella run-on sentence.) Does the \"beating the house\" rule prohibit you from doing that, or does it just prohibit you from spinning it 2 or 3 spaces to the big $$ spot?

Brandon Brooks · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2003, 07:31:42 PM »

[quote name=\'whoserman\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 06:23 PM\'] here is the problem with scenario #2...

there are no commercials until after round 2. if round 2 took up the remainder of the show, where would they put the commercials? would they chop it up in post? seems unlikely.

what i'm saying is, what if a contestant consistantly spins it once around, landing it on the big $$ spot, and after a few letters, figures out the puzzle, then extorts that knowledge to hit the big $$ every spin, and pick a correct letter every spin? (Oy, that was hella run-on sentence.) Does the "beating the house" rule prohibit you from doing that, or does it just prohibit you from spinning it 2 or 3 spaces to the big $$ spot? [/quote]
Rather valid point, indeed. So scenario #2 can't happen.

I coulda sworn I heard a rule where the wheel had to be spun at least a quarter or half revolution, so spinning just to get to three spots away would be very illegal. I don't know if the \"beating the house\" rule bans spinning the wheel one revolution to the same space consistantly.

Brandon Brooks

tvrandywest · « **Reply #22 on:** July 31, 2003, 07:33:48 PM »

For those who have actually spun the wheel...

My memory is the wheel is so heavy that I can't imagine trying to exert the perfect amount of control in order to try to get anyplace close to even half a revolution with any predictable outcome. Especially true considering no contestant gets to spin more than 20 times between practice and their first day's game play to develop any expert \"feel\" for that wheel.

My impression is that the only way to come close to controlling the outcome on that heavy wheel is to spin not more than 5 or so wedges, which would certainly result in a warning on the first attempt, and a \"stop tape\" on the 2nd or 3rd. I know the S&P folks who work that show - they really DO watch. Plus nobody wants the viewer to have any impression of foul play; there's nothing to be gained and everything to be lost.

Happy spinning, happy winning!

Randy
tvrandywest.com

GSFan · « **Reply #23 on:** July 31, 2003, 07:48:17 PM »

An interesting topic, yes. However, we are talking about a man who became so obsessed with winning on a game show. He also paid a great price for his actions.

Pulling a \"Larson.\" This is not something anyone is aspiring to. Correct? Pull a \"Claven\" instead. At least you get to keep your dignity.

David

Kevin Prather · « **Reply #24 on:** July 31, 2003, 08:08:09 PM »

ok, maybe \"Pulling a Larsen\" was a bad choice of words.

MSTieScott · « **Reply #25 on:** July 31, 2003, 08:18:04 PM »

The only times I've seen a contestant consistently hit the same space a few spins in a row is because their maximum spinning strength caused the wheel to make exactly one revolution. And that never seems to happen near the big money. Sometimes you'll see a contestant who can consistently spin the wheel one revolution plus one space, which is fun for predicting what the next spin will be worth. But I suspect that most of those contestants don't even realize how hard they're spinning.

The only time I've seen an instance of a contestant OBVIOUSLY trying to control the wheel was during a Jackpot round from a few seasons ago. The contestant clearly knew the answer to the puzzle, and his arrow was in the general range of the Jackpot space. Since this was before the Jackpot space was placed directly next to a Bankrupt, he kept on spinning, trying to muster up exactly the right strength to land on the Jackpot. It was really exciting -- a couple of times he came really close. Once, he underspun and nearly hit the Bankrupt anyway. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to hit the Jackpot before he ran out of consonants... but as a consolation, the $3,500 space was two away from Jackpot, and he hit that once or twice.

--
Scott Robinson

(I'm somewhat sure that that incident was what prompted the show to move the Jackpot space next to Bankrupt the next season, too.)

Gromit · « **Reply #26 on:** July 31, 2003, 10:30:03 PM »

[quote name=\'WilliamPorygon\' date=\'Jul 30 2003, 10:01 PM\'] According to a recent post on the official Wheel of Fortune message board, contestants are even specifically told that intentionally aiming your spins is against the rules, and Pat will stop the game if he sees you doing it. So, the answer is no. (Though I'm sure we've all dreamed about hitting the $3500 ten times in a row then landing the mega-Jackpot with the last consonant... ^_^ ) [/quote]
What an insanely stupid rule. How dare you try and make your letters worth more. With folks like that running the show, I'm surprised you're allowed to guess letters that might actually be in the puzzle.

Fine, make a rule that the wheel has to go all the way around once, so that you can't spin it a couple of spaces. That's reasonable.

Tomorrow on Price is Right - \"Massive scandal! Contestant thrown out for attempting to spin 1.00 on the big wheel! And then they had the gall to attempt to bid close to the retail value of their showcase!\"

clemon79 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 31, 2003, 11:59:59 PM »

[quote name=\'Gromit\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 07:30 PM\'] What an insanely stupid rule. How dare you try and make your letters worth more. With folks like that running the show, I'm surprised you're allowed to guess letters that might actually be in the puzzle.

Fine, make a rule that the wheel has to go all the way around once, so that you can't spin it a couple of spaces. That's reasonable.

Tomorrow on Price is Right - "Massive scandal! Contestant thrown out for attempting to spin 1.00 on the big wheel! And then they had the gall to attempt to bid close to the retail value of their showcase!" [/quote]
What a perfectly idiotic argument.

The POINT of the Wheel on WOF is that it is supposed to be a mechanism of CHANCE. (So's the one on Price, in fact, but to a somewhat lesser degree.) Spinning the Wheel is not a game of skill. It's the Wheel of FORTUNE, as in luck. (Or money. I suppose. Prolly both definitions were considered when they came up with the name.)

You start letting people try to finesse the thing, you are completely violating the spirit of the game, and making a mockery of it, in my opinion.

(Now, that said, there is a difference in my eyes between physically trying to finesse the wheel and using what you know about your previous spins to decide whether to go again or not.)

The reason there is no \"one complete revolution\" rule is because your average contestant can't get the damn thing around much more than a complete spin anyhow, and in many cases much less. And if you allow ANY finessing of the Wheel, then you have to draw a line as to HOW MUCH finessing you're going to allow. And then you are hip-deep in gray areas that you don't EVEN want to deal with.

Brandon Brooks · « **Reply #28 on:** August 01, 2003, 12:36:59 AM »

While I do hold a similar opinion to you, let's play Devil's Advocate (because I can):

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What a perfectly idiotic argument.

Not really. It's a little sensational, but not perfectly idiotic. It does have a logic, whether you agree or not.

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The POINT of the Wheel on WOF is that it is supposed to be a mechanism of CHANCE. (So's the one on Price, in fact, but to a somewhat lesser degree.) Spinning the Wheel is not a game of skill. It's the Wheel of FORTUNE, as in luck. (Or money. I suppose. Prolly both definitions were considered when they came up with the name.)

Excuse me, but am I not the one to determine what my fortune is on the turn of the wheel? I set it in motion; I choose my letters; I make my fortune. I can go on a game show and Press My Luck... but do I not have the right to be more \"lucky\" due to an advantage I have over my competitor?

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And if you allow ANY finessing of the Wheel, then you have to draw a line as to HOW MUCH finessing you're going to allow. And then you are hip-deep in gray areas that you don't EVEN want to deal with.

What if there is already another rule saying you have to at least spin it a quarter revolution? (I don't know if it is fact since no one has confirmed my assertion... it's just hypothetical.)

Brandon Brooks

Peter Sarrett · « **Reply #29 on:** August 01, 2003, 01:28:38 AM »

Obviously the producers are free to set the rules, but that doesn't mean we have to like them. As a contestant, I'd certainly spin harder if the big money was beyond where my normal spin would wind up, and softer if it was closer. Doing anything else is just dumb. Trying to enforce a rule saying I can't do so is also dumb, because my intent is unprovable.

It flabbergasts me that casinos are able to discriminate against blackjack players for counting cards, effectively making it against the rules to use your brain. Astounding.

- Peter