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Author Topic: The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!  (Read 12627 times)

Ian Wallis

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2007, 09:22:54 PM »
Quote
Why? Please tell me what's wrong with giving two people who have probably never been on TV before a chance to get comfortable before the real game for serious money starts.

Would you rather WWTBAM skipped the first five questions, too?

Ahh...but the first five questions on WWTBAM DO mean something.  Several contestants have actually bowed out of the game on that level, and many others have had to use lifelines, which affects game play later on.

I just don't see any point to playing a "useless" round on any show.  I know the ultimate object is to have fun, but if the point of the game is to win by getting to a certain amount, and one round doesn't have any bearing on the outcome of the game, why bother?

I can understand contestants being nervous - but don't most get to play some sort of "mock" game before taping, or at least sit on the set and run through a few things so they know where to stand or move, etc.

At least on Super Password, there was a "tournament of losers".
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Robert Hutchinson

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2007, 09:33:54 PM »
While I don't have anything against a "practice" round, I'm not convinced that Super Password was deliberately intended to have one. And I am less bothered by such rounds at the beginning of a game (Super Password, Body Language) than I am by ones that crop up in the middle of a game (last year of Password Plus, Go).

Louie Feud . . . I have a hazy memory of at least one instance where one team had a commanding lead (maybe 281 to 0). The trailing team won control of the Triple question, but lost it on a strike. Dramatic moment--except that there were fewer than 281 points in the bank, so it didn't matter whether or not the steal was successful.

Oh, and I thought Showoffs had a good scoring system--basically, it was The Joker's Wild scoring system. (first past X, and in the lead, at the end of a round)
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TLEberle

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2007, 09:56:37 PM »
[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'162345\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 10:03 AM\']Looking through the Wiki, it seems that Mark Goodson was plenty capable in most areas except for one: Scoring.[/quote] I would make the case that he spent so much time making the game good so that the scoring would be secondary to enjoyment. The problem is that when you're comparing "game balance" to "good TV that people will watch," it should be absolutely no contest that watchable TV wins out every time. And if that means round three starts with a $5,000 space on the wheel, so be it.

As to the practice round, there's no better way than to stick it at the beginning. You can't have a zero round, because that would confuse and/or piss off your viewers. And how interesting would it be to have all "single" value questions on Family Feud? "It's 47 to 39 on the way to 300...let's play the Feud!"

Giving players a chance to play a low-stakes game in the actual environment is a much better way to do things than to say "Well, you played the game once with tap bells and some warm-up hack already, so the team that wins this question plays for $50,000. Here we go!"

I used to have the "game balance hang-up" too, but most shows manage to find a good way to walk the tightrope.

[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'162390\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 03:39 PM\']Would you rather WWTBAM skipped the first five questions, too?[/quote]If I was playing? Absolutely. Five questions with complete silence in the background, and 200 people waiting to see if I'll screw up, as opposed to some number less than five? Sure. But I understand why it's part of the show.


[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'162410\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 06:33 PM\']Louie Feud . . . I have a hazy memory of at least one instance where one team had a commanding lead (maybe 281 to 0). The trailing team won control of the Triple question, but lost it on a strike. Dramatic moment--except that there were fewer than 281 points in the bank, so it didn't matter whether or not the steal was successful.[/quote]I remember something like that. The "strike" buzzer sounded, followed immediately by the "end of game" music, and Richard fumbling through an explanation of "they couldn't catch up even with the steal, so the game is over."

Yawn.

There is no reason that a game of Family Feud should end like that.

Quote
Oh, and I thought Showoffs had a good scoring system--basically, it was The Joker's Wild scoring system. (first past X, and in the lead, at the end of a round)
How many rounds did a game of Showoffs take? A race to seven when teams can score five or more in a round seems like it would be over quickly.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 09:57:13 PM by TLEberle »
Travis L. Eberle

clemon79

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2007, 10:12:10 PM »
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'162409\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 06:22 PM\']
Ahh...but the first five questions on WWTBAM DO mean something.[/quote]
Okay, if you're gonna go to THAT well, then I'll turn it around and suggest that the SP one does, too. Because, you see, a player who does poorly could get disillusioned and psyched out and such and be screwed for the rest of the game.

This is quickly becoming utterly ridiculous.
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Matt Ottinger

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2007, 10:18:17 PM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'162418\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 10:12 PM\']
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'162409\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 06:22 PM\']
Ahh...but the first five questions on WWTBAM DO mean something.[/quote]
Okay, if you're gonna go to THAT well, then I'll turn it around and suggest that the SP one does, too. Because, you see, a player who does poorly could get disillusioned and psyched out and such and be screwed for the rest of the game.

This is quickly becoming utterly ridiculous.[/quote]
Actually, best I can tell, it just now became ridiculous with your introduction of the intangible element.  Simple fact is that the five questions in Millionaire do mean something.  People have actually lost on them, and people actually use lifelines on them which tangibly affects the rest of their game.  Doesn't happen much, but there's a difference between "hardly ever matters" and "NEVER matters," which is what Ian was saying.

Meanwhile, it's important to keep in mind the post from TLEberle.  Ultimately, whether the TV show is fun to watch matters more than whether the game is "right".
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clemon79

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2007, 10:41:10 PM »
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'162414\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 06:56 PM\']
I used to have the "game balance hang-up" too, but most shows manage to find a good way to walk the tightrope.[/quote]
It's important to make the distinction between "balance" and "fairness," too. Because the game is still absolutely fair; all players play under the same set of rules.

It's perfectly OK to be offended by a game show's rules as a game designer. The thing that we have to remember is that Mark Goodson was not a game designer, he was a TV producer.
Quote
If I was playing? Absolutely. Five questions with complete silence in the background, and 200 people waiting to see if I'll screw up, as opposed to some number less than five? Sure.
Okay. I totally and completely don't get it, but okay.
Quote
There is no reason that a game of Family Feud should end like that.
Save, possibly, for the fact that the other 999 times the system is set up for a dramatic finish, and fixing this one-in-1000 situation in a sensible-to-the-viewer way would affect those 999 finishes. I'll take the sure thing and dine on the rare shiatburger, thanks.
Quote
How many rounds did a game of Showoffs take? A race to seven when teams can score five or more in a round seems like it would be over quickly.
In my experience, it was generally over in 2 rounds.
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TLEberle

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2007, 10:51:51 PM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'162425\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 07:41 PM\']
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'162414\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 06:56 PM\']If I was playing? Absolutely. Five questions with complete silence in the background, and 200 people waiting to see if I'll screw up, as opposed to some number less than five? Sure.[/quote]
Okay. I totally and completely don't get it, but okay.[/quote]I want to get the part of the game where I can leave with no money over and done with as quickly as possible, if it's me in that chair. Having nothing in the background would only serve to jangle the nerves and increase the chance that I'll do something stupid. My saying that I'd want the money to go 250-500-1,000 (safety) is only motivated out of selfishness on my part.

As a viewer, I have no problem with the money tree the way it is. It's worked for eight years, after all.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 10:53:03 PM by TLEberle »
Travis L. Eberle

mmb5

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2007, 11:43:15 PM »
On Showoffs, remember this was their second scoring system.  The first system was best 2-out-of-3, and since each round was played twice, that meant many six round games.


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Robert Hutchinson

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2007, 12:27:28 AM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'162425\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 10:41 PM\'][quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'162414\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 06:56 PM\']There is no reason that a game of Family Feud should end like that.[/quote]Save, possibly, for the fact that the other 999 times the system is set up for a dramatic finish, and fixing this one-in-1000 situation in a sensible-to-the-viewer way would affect those 999 finishes. I'll take the sure thing and dine on the rare shiatburger, thanks.[/quote]
Wait, now I'm confused. You liked the Louie-era scoring system on Family Feud? On my part, I was just remembering the anticlimactic icing on top of the screw-the-first-three-rounds cake.
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clemon79

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2007, 12:57:21 AM »
[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'162435\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 09:27 PM\']
Wait, now I'm confused. You liked the Louie-era scoring system on Family Feud?
[/quote]
I didn't like anything about the Louie Feud. Oh, wait, I see what Travis is saying, now. I thought he was referring to the Dawson show from "Richard." Which shows you how much Feud I've watched lately. Hell, I think I've HOSTED more Feud than I've watched over the last couple of years.
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TLEberle

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2007, 01:29:40 AM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'162438\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 09:57 PM\']
[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'162435\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 09:27 PM\']
Wait, now I'm confused. You liked the Louie-era scoring system on Family Feud?
[/quote]
I didn't like anything about the Louie Feud. Oh, wait, I see what Travis is saying, now. I thought he was referring to the Dawson show from "Richard." Which shows you how much Feud I've watched lately. Hell, I think I've HOSTED more Feud than I've watched over the last couple of years.
[/quote]Oh. Oops. :)

The incident in question happened on a show hosted by Richard Karn. Not Dawson. It was before they switched the the far better format in the fourth year of the most recent run.

/Maybe a little less better if you weren't so keen on doubling the points.
//Meh. Still a good trade, if you ask me.
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Sodboy13

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2007, 01:56:50 AM »
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'162441\' date=\'Aug 31 2007, 12:29 AM\']
/Maybe a little less better if you weren't so keen on DOUBLING THE POINTS!!!!1!oneeleventyomgwtfbbqroxxors
[/quote]

There, fixed that for you.
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clemon79

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2007, 02:01:04 AM »
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'162441\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 10:29 PM\']
The incident in question happened on a show hosted by Richard Karn. Not Dawson. It was before they switched the the far better format in the fourth year of the most recent run.
[/quote]
No. it's all good, had I thought a little, I would have drawn that conclusion.
[quote name=\'Sodboy13\' post=\'162445\' date=\'Aug 30 2007, 10:56 PM\']
There, fixed that for you.
[/quote]
Actually, no, I'm fairly sure that Travis would just as soon that tired (and not really accurate anyhow) cliche die.
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DrBear

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2007, 07:31:33 AM »
Random early-morning thought ... allow the contestant to start at question 6 ... with NO option to bug off. You can skip the first five, start at six and have to answer it. Miss it, you go home empty handed.
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Sodboy13

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The Game Show Pilot Light Has Moved!
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2007, 09:29:37 AM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'162446\' date=\'Aug 31 2007, 01:01 AM\']
Actually, no, I'm fairly sure that Travis would just as soon that tired (and not really accurate anyhow) cliche die.
[/quote]

Ah, well.  Consider this occurrence my first and last use of that ol' chestnut.  And Travis is right - better to double and make a fuss over it than to continue playing a completely broken game.

/blaming it all on a combination of caffeine and cold pills
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