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Author Topic: WWTBAM Brain Freeze, or...  (Read 3835 times)

WmLGage

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WWTBAM Brain Freeze, or...
« on: June 06, 2007, 10:18:49 PM »
With apologies in advance if this has already been discussed (the "search forum" function doesn't seem to want to work).

WWTBAM is rerunning its 2006 College Week shows from last November this week.  I remember seeing them when they were first aired, but cannot recall if it hit me then as it did today, but it hit me today like a ton of bricks!

It's Day Three and we have Zach Harrison of the University of Wisconsin-Madison as the carryover contestant.  He's plowed right through to the $4,000 question up to this point, having burned only one lifeline (for some reason, at $2,000, he didn't couldn't remember that "orgo" is college-student shorthand for "organic chemistry" and asked the audience)!  In any event, he forges ahead and gets to the $50,000 question without burning any more lifelines.

He uses Switch the Question at $50,000 on "What U.S. president is commonly credited with inventing the swivel chair?" and correctly answers the alternate question, "Iraq does not share a border with which of these Middle Eastern countries?" by a reasoned process of elimination.  He then (successfully) uses his Phone-a-Friend at $100,000 on "The two official mascots of the 2006 Olympic Winter Games were Neve, a female snowball, and Gliz, a male what?"  (His PAF, his dad, must have googled it, because he comes up with the right answer at the last second.)

With one lifeline left, he's then presented with this question for $250,000:

Of the planets in our solar system, where does Earth rank in terms of size?

A. Fourth-largest
B. Fifth-largest
C. Sixth-largest
D. Seventh-largest

He immediately uses the 50/50, which leaves B and C, which should have been the end of it.  He says to himself (correctly) that Neptune, Uranus, Saturn and Jupiter are all "definitely bigger."  Given that there are only nine planets (I guess this was before Pluto got downgraded), that leaves five, which means that the ONLY POSSIBLE CORRECT ANSWERS are A and B.  But, since the 50/50 has already eliminated A, the answer is clearly B!  But does he say "B.  Final answer"?  No, he does not.  Instead, he continues his ruminations, saying (again, correctly) that Mercury and Pluto are "definitely smaller," leaving only three.  He then goes on to say that he wants to say that one of the remaining planets, Venus or Mars, is bigger than Earth, which, apparently, he believes would make the correct answer C.  (Of course, if that WERE true, then Earth would be the THIRD-LARGEST, not the sixth-largest, which wasn't even one of the options initially presented!)  But, apparently, he's used up his reserves of reason and logic.  I guess he must have decided to take the chance that either Venus or Mars IS bigger than Earth, because he ultimately says, "C.  Final answer."

I'll admit that walking with $25,000 is nothing to sneeze at, and losing $75,000 is pretty painful, but here we had one of the rarest of circumstances on WWTBAM: the 50/50 lifeline actually proved useful by leaving an obvioulsy wrong answer as one of the remaining options, and at the $250,000 level no less!

How much do you want to bet that his friends at school have been razzing him unmercifully about this gaffe for the past six moths!?

clemon79

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WWTBAM Brain Freeze, or...
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2007, 10:23:05 PM »
[quote name=\'WmLGage\' post=\'154423\' date=\'Jun 6 2007, 07:18 PM\']
How much do you want to bet that his friends at school have been razzing him unmercifully about this gaffe for the past six moths!?
[/quote]
I sure hope you do well if you ever get into the chair.
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WmLGage

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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2007, 10:23:25 PM »
The complete subheading is, "Does being in the Hot Seat really render one ultimately incapable of logical thought?"

WmLGage

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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2007, 10:26:56 PM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'154424\' date=\'Jun 6 2007, 08:23 PM\']
I sure hope you do well if you ever get into the chair.
[/quote]
That makes two of us!

clemon79

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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2007, 10:28:28 PM »
[quote name=\'WmLGage\' post=\'154426\' date=\'Jun 6 2007, 07:26 PM\']
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'154424\' date=\'Jun 6 2007, 08:23 PM\']
I sure hope you do well if you ever get into the chair.
[/quote]
That makes two of us!
[/quote]
I'm just saying, because in one post you've pretty much pissed away every ounce of game-show karma you might have had in you.
Chris Lemon, King Fool, Director of Suck Consolidation
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Robert Hutchinson

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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2007, 10:56:59 PM »
I think that game-show-karma is running a distant second to ironi-karma at the moment.

William . . . you might want to reexamine the core of your argument. I'm pretty sure that you've gotten "smallest" and "largest" crossed up, and slipped a bit on some of the planet-counting on top of that.
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tomobrien

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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2007, 11:03:43 PM »
[quote name=\'WmLGage\' post=\'154425\' date=\'Jun 6 2007, 09:23 PM\'] The complete subheading is, "Does being in the Hot Seat really render one ultimately incapable of logical thought?"
How much do you want to bet that his friends at  school have been razzing him unmercifully about this gaffe for the past  six moths!?[/quote]
And you've been in it exactly how many times to know what it feels like?  To know what it feels like to have the host, the cameras and the audience all focused on you?
I would bet that his friends are probably happy for the guy winning $25,000.  Gaffes are easy to make, you know...they occur every six moths or so.

clemon79

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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2007, 11:06:17 PM »
[quote name=\'tomobrien\' post=\'154429\' date=\'Jun 6 2007, 08:03 PM\']
Gaffes are easy to make, you know...they occur every six moths or so.
[/quote]
No more calls, please!
Chris Lemon, King Fool, Director of Suck Consolidation
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Stripey

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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2007, 11:17:18 PM »
The cameras, audience, and host are almost beside the point. As Robert noted, the OP's argument re: the question is just wrong. If the contestant knows that there are at least four planets larger than Earth, that only rules out answer A -- i.e., since there are four planets larger, Earth cannot be fourth-largest.

Once the contestant decided that one of the remaining planets was also larger than Earth, C was the proper choice. In total, he figured there were five planets larger than our own, which makes Earth the sixth largest. Unfortunately, he had this fact wrong, but his logic, based on his assumptions, was correct.

I'll refrain from commenting further because WmLGage supplied more than enough rope to hang himself.

WmLGage

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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2007, 11:26:47 PM »
[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'154428\' date=\'Jun 6 2007, 08:56 PM\']
I think that game-show-karma is running a distant second to ironi-karma at the moment.

William . . . you might want to reexamine the core of your argument. I'm pretty sure that you've gotten "smallest" and "largest" crossed up, and slipped a bit on some of the planet-counting on top of that.
[/quote]
Yes, I did make one obvious error.  My parenthetical should have read:

(Of course, if that WERE true, then Earth would be the FOURTH-LARGEST, which the 50/50 had already eliminated!)

Otherwise, I believe the reasoning is sound.

If you have five objects of varying sizes (which was the case after Uranus, Neptune, Saturn and Jupiter were eliminated from consideration), there cannot be a "sixth-largest" object within that group.

WmLGage

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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2007, 11:36:00 PM »
[quote name=\'tomobrien\' post=\'154429\' date=\'Jun 6 2007, 09:03 PM\']
And you've been in it exactly how many times to know what it feels like?  To know what it feels like to have the host, the cameras and the audience all focused on you?
[/quote]
I imagine it's very stressful.  But he wasn't rushing it or otherwise making some of the other more common mistakes some contestants make in the circumstances.  He simply made a error in logic.  He'd done EXTREMELY well up to that point, especially with the Iraq question (utilizing a logical process of elimination).  And he'd made great use of his lifelines (excpet with Ask the Audience at $2,000, but even he realized afterwards that he'd "wasted" the lifeline).

[quote name=\'tomobrien\' post=\'154429\' date=\'Jun 6 2007, 09:03 PM\']
I would bet that his friends are probably happy for the guy winning $25,000.  Gaffes are easy to make, you know...they occur every six moths or so.
[/quote]
That's just a typo, not "a blatant mistake or misjudgment."

Robert Hutchinson

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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2007, 11:44:12 PM »
[quote name=\'WmLGage\' post=\'154434\' date=\'Jun 6 2007, 11:26 PM\']If you have five objects of varying sizes (which was the case after Uranus, Neptune, Saturn and Jupiter were eliminated from consideration), there cannot be a "sixth-largest" object within that group.[/quote]

This is part of the error in your reasoning. UNS&J were not "eliminated from consideration". Rather, the contestant took them entirely into consideration, putting them on the list as largest, second-largest, third-largest, and fourth-largest. That leaves fifth through ninth for Earth. Mercury and Pluto being the smallest knocks out eighth and ninth. If Earth is larger than Venus and Mars (which it is), it is therefore fifth. However, if you put Venus or Mars ahead of Earth (and this was probably the reason this question was ranked so highly, as Venus is only slightly smaller than Earth), Earth comes in as sixth-largest.

I'm still trying to say this as nicely as possible, considering how absolutely sure you are of yourself on this subject, but I really think that your argument has no merit. I would greatly appreciate others examining the particulars of the question and backing me up (or not) on this.

(EDIT: I missed Stripey's post. Thanks to him, Scott, and Michi-Matt.)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2007, 11:50:48 PM by Robert Hutchinson »
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WmLGage

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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2007, 11:47:40 PM »
Apparently, Earth is both the fifth-largest AND the fifth-smallest planet...

scottua1

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« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2007, 11:47:41 PM »
[quote name=\'WmLGage\' post=\'154434\' date=\'Jun 6 2007, 11:26 PM\']
Otherwise, I believe the reasoning is sound.

If you have five objects of varying sizes (which was the case after Uranus, Neptune, Saturn and Jupiter were eliminated from consideration), there cannot be a "sixth-largest" object within that group.
[/quote]
Why are you eliminating those? You're trying to figure out out of the nine (at the time) planets, where Earth ranks in size. You have nine objects under consideration, not five. If you eliminate planets (and you should be eliminating the smaller ones, not the bigger ones), you're still figuring the rank in relation to a total of nine.

The reasoning that Stripey explained is perfect - the contestant knew four were bigger, thought another one was, and came up with sixth-largest. Which, for his reasoning, is logical (albeit wrong).

Matt Ottinger

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« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2007, 11:47:57 PM »
[quote name=\'WmLGage\' post=\'154423\' date=\'Jun 6 2007, 10:18 PM\']
Of the planets in our solar system, where does Earth rank in terms of size?

A. Fourth-largest
B. Fifth-largest
C. Sixth-largest
D. Seventh-largest

He immediately uses the 50/50, which leaves B and C, which should have been the end of it.  He says to himself (correctly) that Neptune, Uranus, Saturn and Jupiter are all "definitely bigger."  Given that there are only nine planets (I guess this was before Pluto got downgraded), that leaves five, which means that the ONLY POSSIBLE CORRECT ANSWERS are A and B.  [/quote]

Wm, read this.

Read it again.

Read it one more time.

(Helpful hint:  If there are four items in the group that are larger, then the item in question can't possibly be "fourth-largest".  If earth was the smallest planet in the solar system, then (counting Pluto) it would be the ninth-largest.)

Apologize.
This has been another installment of Matt Ottinger's Masters of the Obvious.
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