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The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: xibit777 on July 01, 2005, 03:38:03 PM

Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: xibit777 on July 01, 2005, 03:38:03 PM
If a pair are stuck on the last word like today with "quicksand" and time is running out, why can't the celeb just *accidently* say sand and then get the word disqualified and get 4000 bucks for the contestant.   As opposed to keep trying for it and only getting 900 bucks.

This seems like a huge flaw that no one ever really takes advantage of.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: TLEberle on July 01, 2005, 03:40:05 PM
It's been done at least once, though maybe not on purpose.

It could be that the celebrities and contestants were good game players and wanted to win the money honestly, or the celebrity doesn't ever see the clock and doesn't know when time is running out.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: chris319 on July 01, 2005, 06:14:07 PM
[quote name=\'xibit777\' date=\'Jul 1 2005, 12:38 PM\']If a pair are stuck on the last word like today with "quicksand" and time is running out, why can't the celeb just *accidently* say sand and then get the word disqualified and get 4000 bucks for the contestant.   As opposed to keep trying for it and only getting 900 bucks.

This seems like a huge flaw that no one ever really takes advantage of.
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The contestant is expecting the celebrity not to give part of the password as a clue. If a celeb gave "sand" as a clue the contestant would think the password couldn't be "quicksand" because he just used "sand" as a clue.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: clemon79 on July 01, 2005, 06:18:22 PM
[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jul 1 2005, 03:14 PM\']The contestant is expecting the celebrity not to give part of the password as a clue. If a celeb gave "sand" as a clue the contestant would think the password couldn't be "quicksand" because he just used "sand" as a clue.
[/quote]
But it doesn't matter, because the second the illegal clue is given, the word goes dark and is out of the round. The contestant doesn't HAVE to guess it. And if that's the last word, that's it.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Kevin Prather on July 01, 2005, 06:33:58 PM
And even if they did have to say it, the celeb could just say "Say quicksand!"
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: beatlefreak84 on July 01, 2005, 07:45:41 PM
Quote
But it doesn't matter, because the second the illegal clue is given, the word goes dark and is out of the round. The contestant doesn't HAVE to guess it. And if that's the last word, that's it.

Actually, Chris, you would be right if we were discussing "Super Password," where an illegal clue on a word does take that word out of play.  However, the situation is considering "Password Plus," where an illegal clue just docks the final jackpot by $1,000.  It does not take the word out of the game, which, IMO, is a really stupid rule and I'm glad that more contestants/celebs didn't try to take advantage of it.

That is really one of the few flaws I find with "Password Plus;" however, in the episodes I've been watching, I'm still waiting to see if anyone actually does use it to their advantage to take home $4,000 (still not a bad hunk of change!).

Anthony
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: clemon79 on July 01, 2005, 08:01:02 PM
[quote name=\'beatlefreak84\' date=\'Jul 1 2005, 04:45 PM\']Actually, Chris, you would be right if we were discussing "Super Password," where an illegal clue on a word does take that word out of play.  However, the situation is considering "Password Plus," where an illegal clue just docks the final jackpot by $1,000.
[/quote]
Yes, thank you, I know what the hell we're talking about.

I could swear that the illegal clue knocked the word out of the round. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I at least know what I _think_ I'm seeing on television.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: chris319 on July 01, 2005, 08:49:44 PM
I'm telling ya, all that strategy is going to do is confuse the contestant. It would be an easy flaw to fix anyway; simply enact a rule whereby if a celeb tries to prompt the contestant to say the password other than by giving a clue and elciting a response ("say 'quicksand'"), the award will be $100 per correctly-guessed password (and the celeb would be rewarded with no further bookings on the show).
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: snowpeck on July 02, 2005, 06:34:26 AM
[quote name=\'xibit777\' date=\'Jul 1 2005, 03:38 PM\']If a pair are stuck on the last word like today with "quicksand" and time is running out, why can't the celeb just *accidently* say sand and then get the word disqualified .....
[/quote]


Well for one thing, saying part of the password is perfectly legal.  And the contestant has to actually guess the word after the illegal clue is given.  Saying the password itself will only net the contestant $900.  


Greg
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: chris319 on July 02, 2005, 01:56:17 PM
Quote
    3.  A legal clue is one which, in the judge's best
determination, is (a) one word, and (b) a legitimate word
in common usage in the English language, and © not a
form of the password which conveys the essence of the password
and (d) a clue which does not involve the use of excessive
physical gestures (e) a clue which is not the opposite of the
password.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Dbacksfan12 on July 02, 2005, 02:08:14 PM
[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jul 1 2005, 07:49 PM\'](and the celeb would be rewarded with no further bookings on the show).
[/quote]
That's akin to what happens in NASCAR commonly--a team finds someway around the rules...and once its discovered--they get nailed for it--something I don't particularly care for.

Why punish someone because the rules that you wrote are weak?
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: clemon79 on July 02, 2005, 03:01:35 PM
[quote name=\'Modor\' date=\'Jul 2 2005, 11:08 AM\']Why punish someone because the rules that you wrote are weak?
[/quote]
Because part of your expectations as a paid performer are that you play the game in such a way that doesn't make a travesty of the show. And any celebrity who would think of such a hack for the game and NOT have at least an inkling that maybe it's a little cheesy and should at LEAST be run by the producers is simply not someone you want working for you.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Blanquepage on July 02, 2005, 09:00:50 PM
One prime example of this Alphabetics flaw was Debralee Scott accidentally reading the final password "window," after which she was buzzed yet contestant Kandi Doyle (yes, Blockbusters Kandi) exclaimed "Window!"
Kandi was awarded $4,000 since she DID say the correct answer despite Debralee reading it. I'll post the clip one of these days.

--Jamie
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: TLEberle on July 03, 2005, 01:02:18 AM
That was the one I was remembering, but I didn't want to give away too much information, lest I be thought of as even more geeky than I already appear.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: davemackey on July 03, 2005, 05:03:32 AM
[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jul 2 2005, 01:56 PM\']
Quote
3. A legal clue is one which, in the judge's best
determination, is (a) one word, and (b) a legitimate word
in common usage in the English language, and not a
form of the password which conveys the essence of the password
and (d) a clue which does not involve the use of excessive
physical gestures (e) a clue which is not the opposite of the
password.
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Chris, was that pesky "no opposites" rule there from the very beginning of "Password Plus" or was it added later on? Can you give us some background as to why that was?

Was it a big hit with the Luddites?
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: zachhoran on July 03, 2005, 08:10:19 AM
[quote name=\'davemackey\' date=\'Jul 3 2005, 04:03 AM\']

Chris, was that pesky "no opposites" rule there from the very beginning of "Password Plus" or was it added later on? Can you give us some background as to why that was?

Was it a big hit with the Luddites?
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The no opposites rule began in the 16th week of the show's run, April 23-27, 1979(Robert Urich and Bart Braverman were the celebs), as per Matchgame.org.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: chris319 on July 05, 2005, 05:39:08 PM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jul 2 2005, 12:01 PM\'][quote name=\'Modor\' date=\'Jul 2 2005, 11:08 AM\']Why punish someone because the rules that you wrote are weak?
[/quote]
Because part of your expectations as a paid performer are that you play the game in such a way that doesn't make a travesty of the show. And any celebrity who would think of such a hack for the game and NOT have at least an inkling that maybe it's a little cheesy and should at LEAST be run by the producers is simply not someone you want working for you.
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That, and the fact that every celebrity except perhaps Betty White, Bill Cullen and Peggy Cass was tested in the office before being offered a booking. If you played the game straight in the office and took liberties with the game during a taping, you've basically pulled a fast one on the producers, a good way of assuring yourself of no further bookings.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Robair on July 05, 2005, 05:46:37 PM
[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jul 5 2005, 04:39 PM\']That, and the fact that every celebrity except perhaps Betty White, Bill Cullen and Peggy Cass was tested in the office before being offered a booking. If you played the game straight in the office and took liberties with the game during a taping, you've basically pulled a fast one on the producers, a good way of assuring yourself of no further bookings.
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What the hell would you ever have done if you booked William Windom by mistake? Good Lord, alive...

...and don't tell me you had to test Carol Burnett...
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on July 05, 2005, 06:39:05 PM
[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jul 5 2005, 05:39 PM\']That, and the fact that every celebrity except perhaps Betty White, Bill Cullen and Peggy Cass was tested in the office before being offered a booking. If you played the game straight in the office and took liberties with the game during a taping, you've basically pulled a fast one on the producers, a good way of assuring yourself of no further bookings.
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[/quote]

Just a thought...perhaps the fact that they couldn't test contestants like this is the reason the celebrities always gave in Alphabetics?
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Kevin Prather on July 05, 2005, 06:55:50 PM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' date=\'Jul 5 2005, 03:39 PM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jul 5 2005, 05:39 PM\']That, and the fact that every celebrity except perhaps Betty White, Bill Cullen and Peggy Cass was tested in the office before being offered a booking. If you played the game straight in the office and took liberties with the game during a taping, you've basically pulled a fast one on the producers, a good way of assuring yourself of no further bookings.
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[/quote]

Just a thought...perhaps the fact that they couldn't test contestants like this is the reason the celebrities always gave in Alphabetics?
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Your point being...
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: BrandonFG on July 05, 2005, 09:22:53 PM
[quote name=\'whoserman\' date=\'Jul 5 2005, 05:55 PM\'][quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' date=\'Jul 5 2005, 03:39 PM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jul 5 2005, 05:39 PM\']That, and the fact that every celebrity except perhaps Betty White, Bill Cullen and Peggy Cass was tested in the office before being offered a booking. If you played the game straight in the office and took liberties with the game during a taping, you've basically pulled a fast one on the producers, a good way of assuring yourself of no further bookings.
[snapback]90815[/snapback]
[/quote]

Just a thought...perhaps the fact that they couldn't test contestants like this is the reason the celebrities always gave in Alphabetics?
[snapback]90824[/snapback]
[/quote]

Your point being...
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[/quote]

Let me see if I can channel Steve here...how many crawfish can I attach to my body? Wait, that's Steve-O...what's the Wheel contestant's last name? Wait, Beverly...OK Gavazzi. ;-)

Anyways, my interpretation is that if a contestant gave, think how many MORE contestants would go for just blatantly saying the password, and telling the celebrity to repeat it, and possibly clean the budget out for an extra $20,000 a week. I mean, it's $900 vs. $4000, and I'm sure G&T would've loved to save that $3100 as many times as possible. I don't know, with contestants doing something like that, it just seems like a S&P nightmare, but I could be wrong.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on July 05, 2005, 11:23:48 PM
Thanks, Brandon.  That's exactly where I was going with that.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: chris319 on July 05, 2005, 11:39:58 PM
Quote
Anyways, my interpretation is that if a contestant gave, think how many MORE contestants would go for just blatantly saying the password, and telling the celebrity to repeat it, and possibly clean the budget out for an extra $20,000 a week. I mean, it's $900 vs. $4000, and I'm sure G&T would've loved to save that $3100 as many times as possible. I don't know, with contestants doing something like that, it just seems like a S&P nightmare, but I could be wrong.
You're smarter than that, Brandon. If that caught on a rule change would be written at the conclusion of one taping and implemented at the beginning of the next.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: BrandonFG on July 06, 2005, 12:56:35 AM
[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jul 5 2005, 10:39 PM\']You're smarter than that, Brandon. If that caught on a rule change would be written at the conclusion of one taping and implemented at the beginning of the next.
[snapback]90855[/snapback]
[/quote]

I see...didn't realize it was as simple as that. Duly noted. :-)
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Robert Hutchinson on July 10, 2005, 12:56:36 AM
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jul 5 2005, 08:22 PM\']Anyways, my interpretation is that if a contestant gave, think how many MORE contestants would go for just blatantly saying the password, and telling the celebrity to repeat it, and possibly clean the budget out for an extra $20,000 a week. I mean, it's $900 vs. $4000, and I'm sure G&T would've loved to save that $3100 as many times as possible. I don't know, with contestants doing something like that, it just seems like a S&P nightmare, but I could be wrong.[/quote]

Another problem with this theory is that Super Password changed the rule to forfeit the jackpot for an illegal clue, yet the celebrity was still always the giver.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Jimmy Owen on July 10, 2005, 01:45:42 AM
This may be too simplistic a solution, but why not have passwords for entire alphabet at the ready in case of illegal clues and/or misses.  The object would still be to get ten passwords in sixty seconds, but an anti-climax would be avoided in case of a miss, as long as ten were guessed correctly.  The penalty for illegal clues would one of time, not money.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Dbacksfan12 on July 10, 2005, 01:48:14 AM
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Jul 10 2005, 12:45 AM\']This may be too simplistic a solution
[/quote]
So let's say the word "Insubordinate" comes up.  What's to stop a celebrity from intentionally saying the word, wasting only 1-2 seconds and getting another chance?
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Kevin Prather on July 10, 2005, 02:03:44 AM
[quote name=\'Modor\' date=\'Jul 9 2005, 10:48 PM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Jul 10 2005, 12:45 AM\']This may be too simplistic a solution
[/quote]
So let's say the word "Insubordinate" comes up.  What's to stop a celebrity from intentionally saying the word, wasting only 1-2 seconds and getting another chance?
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The fact that they'd just as soon pass the word.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: clemon79 on July 10, 2005, 03:06:05 AM
[quote name=\'whoserman\' date=\'Jul 9 2005, 11:03 PM\']The fact that they'd just as soon pass the word.
[/quote]
Mark's right. To pass it you have to come back to it. I'd just keep yelling out the word until I saw one I liked.

Now, to replace the Password (which would be doable now, but not with the lightboard they used for Alphabetics on P+) AND dock them a grand might stifle that.

Alternately, they could just disqualify the player outright from the Big Fella, like they did on SP. What works for Pyramid, right?
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Kevin Prather on July 10, 2005, 02:54:17 PM
I like that idea best, Chris. To get the grand prize, you gotta play a perfect round. Otherwise, settle for your $100-900.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: xibit777 on July 10, 2005, 03:32:38 PM
[quote name=\'whoserman\' date=\'Jul 10 2005, 01:54 PM\']I like that idea best, Chris. To get the grand prize, you gotta play a perfect round. Otherwise, settle for your $100-900.
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[/quote]

That's the best way to do it, but it is really unfair to a contestant when some stupid celeb just blurts out the word when there is 22 seconds left on the last word.  And we just saw that happen.    But then again they should just be happy they got 900 dollars to begin with.

Also many of you talk like the producers would know instantly if a celeb purposely said an illegal word on the last one that they can't get.  Yet this would be very hard to prove.   These celebs are mostly actors, and they would probably know how to disguise it into being a *mistake*.  

One thing that I think stops these celebs from doing this is they don't want to take a chance on forfeiting the extra 1000 dollars the contestant could make if they came up with the word that they can't get.   Another thing is the embarassment of saying the illegal word.  Because many people aren't smart enough to realize that they might be doing this on purpose to make 3100 extra for the contestant.   It's kind of like Cover Up on TPiR.  You really have to have balls if you want to play that game properly.  Because a lot of people are going to think you are really stupid when you start picking 3 for the first number in a 17,000 dollar car.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Dbacksfan12 on July 10, 2005, 03:44:16 PM
[quote name=\'xibit777\' date=\'Jul 10 2005, 02:32 PM\']And we just saw that happen.    But then again they should just be happy they got 900 dollars to begin with.[/quote]
This was on Super Password, not Password Plus

Quote
It's kind of like Cover Up on TPiR.  You really have to have balls if you want to play that game properly.  Because a lot of people are going to think you are really stupid when you start picking 3 for the first number in a 17,000 dollar car.
I thought the "proper" way was to get all five numbers right the first time.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on July 10, 2005, 06:01:59 PM
[quote name=\'Modor\' date=\'Jul 10 2005, 03:44 PM\']
Quote
It's kind of like Cover Up on TPiR. You really have to have balls if you want to play that game properly. Because a lot of people are going to think you are really stupid when you start picking 3 for the first number in a 17,000 dollar car.
I thought the "proper" way was to get all five numbers right the first time.
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When that method usually results in getting everything but the fourth digit and then losing on your second turn?  Hell no.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Dbacksfan12 on July 10, 2005, 06:39:26 PM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' date=\'Jul 10 2005, 05:01 PM\']When that method usually results in getting everything but the fourth digit and then losing on your second turn?  Hell no.
[/quote]
Or, in turn, you could choose "3" for the Ford Focus LX, get the 4 others numbers wrong, and look like an utter dumbass.  Hell no.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: xibit777 on July 10, 2005, 06:55:28 PM
The best strategy is to pick the first number since you know it's right, then pick wrong numbers for the next 4.   Then do the same the next round for the 2nd number.

99% of the time the first and second numbers are gimmes if you know what you're doing.  That gets you at least 3 chances.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: clemon79 on July 10, 2005, 07:40:22 PM
[quote name=\'xibit777\' date=\'Jul 10 2005, 03:55 PM\']The best strategy is to pick the first number since you know it's right, then pick wrong numbers for the next 4.   Then do the same the next round for the 2nd number.
[/quote]
Except, for the seventeenth time, if you know they're WRONG numbers, why not just pick the RIGHT ones?

I can think of few situations playing Cover Up when you are certain of the first two numbers. First one, sure. The second one is easier than the fifth, yeah, but still not a gimmie by any stretch. So you'd better pick that one right so that you DO get a second chance.
Title: Huge flaw with PW+ alphabetics?
Post by: Robert Hutchinson on July 13, 2005, 01:36:43 AM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jul 10 2005, 06:40 PM\'][quote name=\'xibit777\' date=\'Jul 10 2005, 03:55 PM\']The best strategy is to pick the first number since you know it's right, then pick wrong numbers for the next 4.   Then do the same the next round for the 2nd number.
[/quote]
Except, for the seventeenth time, if you know they're WRONG numbers, why not just pick the RIGHT ones?[/quote]

It wasn't worded wonderfully, but I would like to think that he meant to not take your best guess at the later numbers until you've used up your sure bets. For example, if I knew the first two digits, and only one of the digits in the last column was a 0 or 5, I would pick it on the third attempt--but I'd be trying 2 and 7, if they were there, before that.