The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: tvrandywest on July 31, 2003, 01:25:53 PM
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Wheel of Fortune: 8.9,
Jeopardy: 7.1,
Who Wants to Be a Millionaire: 3.0,
The Hollywood Squares: 2.5,
Pyramid: 2.1,
Family Feud: 2.1,
Blind Date: 2.0,
ElimiDate: 1.9,
Weakest Link: 1.8,
The 5th Wheel: 1.5,
Street Smarts: 1.6,
Change of Heart: 1.2,
Shipmates: 0.9
Read 'em and weep. Wanna guess which are gone after this season (if not sooner)?
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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Um...all but two?
Seriously, are we handicapping the survivors of the 03-04 season? Unfortunately, it seems as though Squares has run its course, and I don't think Sony will have patience with Pyramid if it doesn't improve. Somehow, Feud and Street Smarts keep trudging along year after year, so somebody must be satisfied with their low numbers. Millionaire's the wild card, but I'd bet it'll stick around for a Year Three. I have no idea (and little interest) about the relatiodocudateralities.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 12:54 PM\']relatiodocudateralities.[/quote]
Now my brain hurts.
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 12:25 PM\']Wheel of Fortune: 8.9,
Jeopardy: 7.1, [/quote]
Obviously.
Who Wants to Be a Millionaire: 3.0,
The Hollywood Squares: 2.5,
Pyramid: 2.1,
Family Feud: 2.1,
Uh-oh.
Blind Date: 2.0,
ElimiDate: 1.9,
Weakest Link: 1.8,
The 5th Wheel: 1.5,
Street Smarts: 1.6,
Change of Heart: 1.2,
Shipmates: 0.9
Aside from WL, the fact that ANYBODY watches these shows blows me away.
Read 'em and weep. Wanna guess which are gone after this season (if not sooner)?
as long as the top 6 last, i'm happy.
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Re: the dateucompetitiondocugameumentaries, I would suspect if the demographics are good, they will continue.
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Randy,
Are those season-to-date ratings, or just the most recent week?
Weakest Link has already been cancelled, despite a sterling performance by George Gray as host, far better than Anne whatsername. Fundamentally flawed concept: the best player is not necessarily the winner. Pity, there's a market for a fast-paced quiz game with a different format than J!, but this one just wasn't it. Heck, I could come up with a more compelling format than WL.
I believe that a bunch of those dating shows are history as well; good riddance to bad rubbish for the most part, though Blind Date makes me laugh. Street Smarts may get low ratings, but part of that is the timeslots it usually gets (late at night). Plus it's dirt-cheap to produce.
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[quote name=\'MyronMMeyer\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 10:59 AM\'][quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 12:54 PM\']relatiodocudateralities.[/quote]
Now my brain hurts.[/quote]
Mine too. I happened to catch \"Shipmates\" while out of town on vacation and was just appalled, no other way to describe it.
The two, ummm..., contestants? looked like they were recovering addicts. Maybe they were hearing voices in their heads too. I imagine they were paid for their \"performance\" with a 12-pack of Milwaukee's Best. So that and the cost of a camcorder and some extra high-quality tapes (this stuff is so bad that it probably wouldn't stick to normal tape) is probably the entire production budget. But it's still hard to believe that enough ad time could be sold to recover those costs.
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[quote name=\'leszekp\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 03:17 PM\']Randy,
Are those season-to-date ratings, or just the most recent week?
Weakest Link has already been cancelled, despite a sterling performance by George Gray as host, far better than Anne whatsername. [/quote]
They be \"season to date\" from Nielsen Media Research (8/26/02-7/21/03)
But Anne whatshername was such a nice lady!! I agree that George did an awesome job with LINK. We did milk it for 319 syndie episodes... not a bad run! As far as format, the BBC was on set to deliver the bible on day 1, and were resistant to any tweak. To their credit they had it on in something like 60+ countries.
My opinion: While I'm happy that friends working the shows have the paycheck, I don't know how Pyramid or Feud or Street Smarts pulled renewals for this season. I hope HS picks up; a 2.5 for a high budget show is not a winning formula. Despite continuing tweaks to lower costs, I can't imagine the above-the-line costs for that show balancing with a 2.5
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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relatiodocudateralities
dateucompetitiondocugameumentaries
Trashgarbagejunkandotherwisefiltywasteofairtime.
Maybe WoF should consider bringing back the Megaword. Or how about a revival of Wordplay? [ducks]
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[quote name=\'leszekp\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 03:17 PM\']Randy,
Are those season-to-date ratings, or just the most recent week?
Weakest Link has already been cancelled, despite a sterling performance by George Gray as host, far better than Anne whatsername. [/quote]
They be \"season to date\" from Nielsen Media Research (8/26/02-7/21/03)
But Anne whatshername was such a nice lady!! I agree that George did an awesome job with LINK. We did milk it for 319 syndie episodes... not a bad run! As far as format, the BBC was on set to deliver the bible on day 1, and were resistant to any tweak. To their credit they had it on in something like 60+ countries.
My opinion: While I'm happy that friends working the shows have the paycheck, I don't know how Pyramid or Feud or Street Smarts pulled renewals for this season. I hope HS picks up; a 2.5 for a high budget show is not a winning formula. Despite continuing tweaks to lower costs, I can't imagine the above-the-line costs for that show balancing with a 2.5
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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I don't know how Pyramid or Feud or Street Smarts pulled renewals for this season.
I heard (tell me if I'm wrong) that Pyramid does well in some markets (better than other shows that were formerly in that slot...Feud I heard is also the same way. Street smarts? I don't know. Call it the \"little engine that could story\", cause their ratings have never been \"great\".
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I'm just wondering how much of these ratings can be filed under \"self-fulfilling prophecy.\"
Station managers believe J! and WOF draw bigger numbers, so they put them in better time slots and - surprise - they draw bigger numbers. They don't believe the same about H2 and Street Smarts, so they get lower numbers. What's really needed — and I'm nah gah doah, as our former president once said - is analysis of ratings by time period for each of these shows.
\"If one Nielsen family turns off its set and goes to visit it's grandmother, does that mean a million other families are turning off their sets and going to visit their grandmothers?\"
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Has Street Smarts being on WGN's national feed three times a day had any effect on it?
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[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 05:07 PM\'] I heard (tell me if I'm wrong) that Pyramid does well in some markets (better than other shows that were formerly in that slot...Feud I heard is also the same way. Street smarts? I don't know. Call it the "little engine that could story", cause their ratings have never been "great". [/quote]
I've also heard that Pyramid has always done exceptionally well in NY.
If you're going to win one market, it might as well be the biggest one :^)
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Well actually, I would expect Blind Date to be back for another season, due to the exposure TNN gives it. The rest under it, most certainly not (Well... I would think Elimidate might have a fighting chance, Street Smarts too, though the ratings are simply too low to justify continuing it).
Brandon Brooks
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[quote name=\'DrBear\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 05:20 PM\']\"If one Nielsen family turns off its set and goes to visit it's grandmother, does that mean a million other families are turning off their sets and going to visit their grandmothers?\"[/quote]
Well now you're opening the huge can of phyla! The fact is that ratings methodology is terribly flawed, but it doesn't matter. Until some other system is developed and has the muscle to usurp Nielson's stranglehold of the past half century, these are the numbers the ad agencies will buy from. They are the only numbers used in all the \"reach\", \"frequency\" and \"CPM\" (cost per thousand) formulas and fancy math that translate down to the money the shows can generate.
The all-time BEST comment on ratings was expressed back in the Mike Douglas syndie era:
\"It's like trying to navigate New Hampshire with a map of Vermont. But it's the only map you have, so you use it\"!
I heard (tell me if I'm wrong) that Pyramid does well in some markets (better than other shows that were formerly in that slot...Feud I heard is also the same way.
Doesn't matter; see above.
Weakest Link positively kicked ass in Detroit. It didn't matter. The shows are too expensive to produce for just Detroit or for other shows' successful markets.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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Isn't Hollywood Squares on 3-year-contract periods?
If that is the case, it's the next season that we should be worrying for H2.
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[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 05:01 PM\']
relatiodocudateralities
dateucompetitiondocugameumentaries
Trashgarbagejunkandotherwisefiltywasteofairtime.
Maybe WoF should consider bringing back the Megaword. Or how about a revival of Wordplay? [ducks] [/quote]
Take my word for it, more people would say \"oh my word!\" and turn it off then those who'd watch it. :)
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 10:25 AM\'] Read 'em and weep. Wanna guess which are gone after this season (if not sooner)?
[/quote]
The thing that gets me about the whole renewal system is that if they cancel some of these, then the replacements are going to do no better, perhaps even worse. They are far too impatient in the tv biz.
I think they'd do far better by only cancelling the worst of the worst rating wise, and leaving the rest to see if they'll develop a market. (I'm not just talking game shows here, but all regular shows). I guarantee that some of the shows that were cancelled in their first year or after one year would have become hits had they let them find their audience.
Not to mention the sheer quantity of ideas and talent they burn through.
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[quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 08:48 PM\'] Take my word for it, more people would say "oh my word!" and turn it off then those who'd watch it. :) [/quote]
Another sign that society is going down the tubes:
12+ letter words: Where's the remote?
5-letter words: It's a hit.
4-letter words: BIG HIT!
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[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 09:19 PM\'] [quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 08:48 PM\']
4-letter words: BIG HIT! [/quote]
Well.... wait -- \"Cram\" with Icey! Cool!
-Chri
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[quote name=\'TonicBH\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 08:39 PM\'] Isn't Hollywood Squares on 3-year-contract periods? [/quote]
No. The contract they have expires next year.
Where did you hear that from?
Brandon Brooks
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Advertisers are also willing to look at the ratings for certain demographic groups--not that that's going to do game shows much good, skewing as most of them do towards audiences of women and older persons.
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Another good sign for Feud and pyramid, not sure bout next season's lineup but this past year it was the anchor of the after school late afternoon lineup for Ch. 9 double running through 3-5 which i consider a good slot for the genre, the 2nd run of feud went head on with Millionaire, and pyramid is heavily advertised in NY...as I said, if you gotta do well in one market it better be ny ;)
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[quote name=\'Starkman\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 05:33 AM\'] Another good sign for Feud and pyramid, not sure bout next season's lineup but this past year it was the anchor of the after school late afternoon lineup for Ch. 9 double running through 3-5 which i consider a good slot for the genre, the 2nd run of feud went head on with Millionaire, and pyramid is heavily advertised in NY...as I said, if you gotta do well in one market it better be ny ;) [/quote]
How are those \"good signs?\" Both shows are guaranteed next year, so it doesn't really matter now... but ratings for both shows are not stellar. And how exactly do you know that WWTBAM didn't trounce Feud?
Brandon Brooks
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The fact is that ratings methodology is terribly flawed, but it doesn't matter.
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Years ago the \"Nielsen Families\" numbered 1200. I remember hearing they were going to increase it to 1700.
Does anybody know the correct number they use now? Has it increased?
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Here in Chicago, Feud, two Pyramids, and Weakest Link run in a 7-9 p.m. block on Channel 26, WCIU. It's great that they run in prime time -- but they run on what's likely the weakest of the Chicago over-the-air stations (it's an independent UHF). But would running from 3-5 p.m. on, say, the local Fox station (which is also UHF) really be any better?
We should actually give WCIU a hand for their game show schedule -- they did run Feud, To Tell the Truth, and Card Sharks as a prime-time block in 2001, and did a lot of print ads for them as well. At least someone there apparently appreciates the genre.
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Well actually, I would expect Blind Date to be back for another season, due to the exposure TNN gives it. The rest under it, most certainly not (Well... I would think Elimidate might have a fighting chance, Street Smarts too, though the ratings are simply too low to justify continuing it).
\"ElimiDate\" is the only one of this year's bunch of returning game/relationship shows that is *up* in households from the previous season. That and the fact that it kiils in the key demos is why it'll be back next year, along with most of the other relationship shows (in Chicago, \"ElimiDate\" double pumps on WCIU at 9 p.m. after their prime time game show block).
\"Change of Heart,\" \"Shipmates\" and \"TWL\" are history (and \"Change\" host Lynn Koplitz grabbed a gig hosting \"Shop & Style,\" NBC and ShopNBC's experiment in bringing back home shopping to higher-profile broadcast television that begins a four-week test run Monday on NBC O&Os in New York, Philadelphia, Chicago and San Francisco/San Jose).
But the relationship shows are like sports talk and \"young talk\" radio stations (\"young talk\" stations are generally on FM, use slogans like \"Talk That Rocks!\" and run Howard Stern)--their total household ratings are somewhat poor, but they get great 18-to-34 male demos, so they stick around.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 08:34 AM\'] Years ago the "Nielsen Families" numbered 1200. I remember hearing they were going to increase it to 1700. Does anybody know the correct number they use now? Has it increased? [/quote]
Nielsen says:
Nationally, there are 5,000 television households in which electronic meters (called People Meters) are attached to every TV set, VCR, cable converter box, satellite dish or other video equipment in the home. The meters continually record all set tuning. In addition we ask each member of the household to let us know when they are watching by pressing a pre-assigned button on the People Meter which is also present. By matching this button activity to the demographic information (age/gender) we collect at the time the meters are installed, we can match the set tuning – what is being watched – with who is watching. All these data are transmitted to Nielsen Media Research’s computers where they are processed and released to our customers each day.
In addition to this national service, we have a slightly different metering system in 55 local markets. In each of those markets Nielsen Media Research gathers just the set-tuning information each day from more than 20,000 additional homes. We than process the data and release what we call \"household ratings\" daily. In this case we can report what channel or program is being watched, but we don’t have the \"who\" part of the picture. To gather that local demographic information, we periodically (at least 4 times per year) ask another group of people to participate in our diary surveys. For these estimates, we contact approximately 1 million homes each year and ask them to keep track of television viewing for one week, recording their TV viewing activity in a diary. This is done for all 210 television markets in the United States in November, February, May and July and is generally referred to as the \"sweeps\".
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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Here in Chicago, Feud, two Pyramids, and Weakest Link run in a 7-9 p.m. block on Channel 26, WCIU. It's great that they run in prime time -- but they run on what's likely the weakest of the Chicago over-the-air stations (it's an independent UHF).
Add on the fact that these shows are most likely to be pre-empted by Chicago sports coverage at times. I don't have numbers, but these pre-emptions can hurt these shows in our market.
But would running from 3-5 p.m. on, say, the local Fox station (which is also UHF) really be any better?
I'd say run it from 2-4 P.M. What is in that 2-hour block are throwaways. I mean, who still enjoys reruns of Cops and a talk show starring a sleazeball who may soon be one of our senators (I shudder at the thought)? By doing this, we Chicago area viewers do not have to worry about pre-emptions. Plus, they will serve as great lead-ins for reruns of King of the Hill and The Simpsons, two shows that I will easily mark out for.
We should actually give WCIU a hand for their game show schedule -- they did run Feud, To Tell the Truth, and Card Sharks as a prime-time block in 2001, and did a lot of print ads for them as well. At least someone there apparently appreciates the genre.
WCIU should be lauded for their efforts. I realy appreciate their giving us a window of fresh air from crappy sitcoms, dreary dramas, and disgusting \"reality\" television. However, I would like to know which magazines you got for those print ads. I read the TV Guides and did not get squat about WCIU's lineup. Which is a shame, really.
The Inquisitive One
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 10:20 AM\'] ("young talk" stations are generally on FM, use slogans like "Talk That Rocks!" and run Howard Stern) [/quote]
Not so! Stern is on our AOR station. Our FM talk station has Tom Leykis instead. :P
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Add on the fact that these shows are most likely to be pre-empted by Chicago sports coverage at times. I don't have numbers, but these pre-emptions can hurt these shows in our market.
Point taken, although baseball only preempts the regular lineup three times between 7/30 and 8/13. The things about game shows, of course, is that if you miss a show it's not really a problem.
However, I would like to know which magazines you got for those print ads. I read the TV Guides and did not get squat about WCIU's lineup. Which is a shame, really.
Saw some in the newspapers, others on sides of buses. The Card Sharks shot of Pat Bullard rode the CTA long after the show itself had sailed into the sunset.
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[quote name=\'TheInquisitiveOne\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 01:35 PM\'] WCIU should be lauded for their efforts. I realy appreciate their giving us a window of fresh air from crappy sitcoms, dreary dramas, and disgusting "reality" television. However, I would like to know which magazines you got for those print ads. I read the TV Guides and did not get squat about WCIU's lineup. Which is a shame, really. [/quote]
They definitely should. It's cool seeing two hours of game shows a night if I want to while I'm at school (no access to GSN there). I think that they can do that since I really don't think the station is too worried about ratings.
Brandon Brooks
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Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the above-the-line budget for any of these shows? Per show, per week, per season?
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 06:18 PM\']Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the above-the-line budget for any of these shows? Per show, per week, per season?[/quote]
I wonder whether the Osmond Pyramid has actually given away more cash this season than the Clark $100K did in any of its three seasons:
Consider that the Clark version had the 7-11, which was won quite often, and the relatively rare (but costly!) $5K bonus for the winner of a 21-21 game. The Osmond Pyramid may have an easier WC, and does give out more prize money to those who don't scale the pyramid in the WC, but on the other hand one could win $25K on the Clark version simply by getting to the WC both times on one show and only winning the second time; to get the $25K on the Osmond Pyramid you have to go all the way to the top of the Pyramid twice.
I also wonder whether the merchandise budget on the Osmond version is that much bigger than on the Clark version: although there are twice as many opportunities to win merchandise, the Super Six is more difficult than the Mystery 7. And does a Sony VAIO, or the camcorders they give away, actually cost much more than the home computers or camcorders Clark gave away back in 1987/88?
(Note to the usual suspects: I'm not asking for a case of \"Mo' Money Syndrome\". I'm simply commenting that technology seems to have made it possible in many cases to give away a much nicer version of a prize for the same amount of money. Remember the 70s LMaD eps that gave away Record-a-Call answering machines that cost $299?)
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To gather that local demographic information, we periodically (at least 4 times per year) ask another group of people to participate in our diary surveys. For these estimates, we contact approximately 1 million homes each year and ask them to keep track of television viewing for one week, recording their TV viewing activity in a diary. This is done for all 210 television markets in the United States in November, February, May and July and is generally referred to as the \"sweeps\".
Was anyone here actually called upon to fill out one of those hollowed diaries? I think I helped give the Davidson 'Squares' that last syndie season by watching in early 1988 and filling out that diary *very* carefully! I vaguely remember that Nielsen gave us a dollar or something like that for participating.
JOSH
(Then again, maybe I'm to blame for that last season... it all depends on your own point of view)
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I was called once to be a Nielsen household. However, one of the questions they ask you is whether you work for any local station. At the time, I was working for three of them.
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Aug 2 2003, 09:05 AM\']
Was anyone here actually called upon to fill out one of those hollowed diaries? I think I helped give the Davidson 'Squares' that last syndie season by watching in early 1988
(Then again, maybe I'm to blame for that last season... it all depends on your own point of view) [/quote]
I wouldn't have blamed you, knowing that your extra viewership could have given \"Matchmaker\" or \"Yahtzee\" a second season rather than the much more tolerable by comparsion Davidson Squares.
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Aug 2 2003, 07:05 AM\'] Was anyone here actually called upon to fill out one of those hollowed diaries? [/quote]
Yes. They sent me a postcard to tell me I'd be getting a phone call about it. I didn't particularly like the tone, they make it sound like it's a civic duty (a concept I already have problems with) to fill the thing out instead of helping fill the coffers of a for-profit company. Then they tried to call me NO LESS THAN THREE TIMES. (Hint to telemarketers: Don't do it. If you call me and I can find a law forbidding it, I WILL pursue damages. I did last year and made a cool $500. Better yet, just burn in a firey hell and save us all the trouble.)
THEN, after all of this, I got ANOTHER postcard telling me to be sure to send in my diary (which I never got, or instantly threw out, I can't remember which. I prolly never got it, because if I did I would have checked to see if they were fool enough to put any cash in there like they used to.).
Memo to Nielsen: Screw off.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Aug 2 2003, 06:35 PM\'] [quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Aug 2 2003, 09:05 AM\']
Was anyone here actually called upon to fill out one of those hollowed diaries? I think I helped give the Davidson 'Squares' that last syndie season by watching in early 1988
(Then again, maybe I'm to blame for that last season... it all depends on your own point of view) [/quote]
I wouldn't have blamed you, knowing that your extra viewership could have given \"Matchmaker\" or \"Yahtzee\" a second season rather than the much more tolerable by comparsion Davidson Squares. [/quote]
:(
But didn't Yahtzee not even finish its first season before it went under? I will admit, I've only seen a handful of episodes as I saw it tape in Atlantic City, so I don't really know for sure if it filled its first season. EoTVGS says it aired from Janurary 11 1988 to Sept. '88.
As for Matchmaker.....[Trebek] KILL IT! KILL IT! [/Trebek]
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Aug 2 2003, 07:40 PM\'] Memo to Nielsen: Screw off. [/quote]
Although that's probably a bit less... diplomatic... than others might say, it's an interesting point nonetheless.
It's amazing what power Nielsen has over television. It's not a flawed system at all... poll a random sample (which is probably why they were so insistent that you fill out a diary -- so that the sample is random), compile, regurgitate, and profit. It's a brilliant system if you can con viewers to do the work for little to no cost. The problem with the Nielsens is that it's used far more extensively than it was originally intended to, and networks can and do make rash decisions in the name of ratings.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and that's why we get stuck in ruts of prime-time and syndicated programming (such as the current faux-reality craze)
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I filled out a Nielsen diary in July 1999. However, I'm sure I completely screwed up their demographics by having moved from Pittsburgh to L.A. at the end of February; they sent the diary to my old address, and it was forwarded. (Given that, in the intervening four months, every single junk mailer had figured out that I had moved, but Nielsen hadn't, just how accurate do you think their ratings really are?)
I was living in an apartment complex with its own private cable system that didn't have GSN, so that didn't help the cause of game shows, and all the current shows were in reruns anyway. In fact, that was the most boring week of TV ever, as I recall. But it was very easy to fill out the diary.
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[quote name=\'Dan Sadro\' date=\'Aug 2 2003, 08:33 PM\']It's not a flawed system at all... [/quote]
We just read why it's flawed. Only a certain kind of person will participate. Sure, the sample selection is great methodology, but many of those selected never participate.
I worked for Simmons Market Research which rates magazine readership. They use a one-time personal inverview involving recall of mags and specific ads. We also gathered a lot of demographic and psychographic info to help answer \"nationally, who reads each of these mags\". Interesting stuff. Similar to Nielsen's methodology, 20 households were randomly selected from a cluster (smaller than a zip code), and the local field interviewer tries to get 15 or more of those households to respond to make that cluster usable. The interviewer gets bonuses for each household above the 15 that he can get. I was so adept at getting into tough homes that they sent me around the country to fill in households from under represented clusters.
I can tell you what kind of person lets you into their home easily, who requires some very creative terms to overcome their objections, and who resists tooth and nail, despite the gifts and cash to entice their one visit involvement. Compare that to the much more imposing requirements to be part of Nielsen's most prized sample - the people-meter homes providing the national \"overnights\".
Multiple phone and in-person interviews, installers to bring in the hardware and connect the rig to your phone line, entering demographic info of everyone in the household into diarys, promises to press your individual button regularly so that they know which member(s) of the household are watching, more phone contacts, allowing an installer back in your home to remove the rig, etc.
The point? Only certain kinds of people are willing to grant you a single in-person interview no matter how much you play Monty Hall with gifts to keep their interest. Now add all the crap required to be part of that Nielsen sample and you can immediately count out busy, upperclass professionals - no doctors, lawyers, senior management types, etc.. Count out anyone living in an expensive home - they don't want strangers traipsing through their private domain unless you're talking thousands of dollars. Forget homes in the central city - they are sure you're trying to rip them off in someway, from a high pressure sales pitch to casing their homes for a later burglary. Unless it's a dirt poor household in an urban area - they'll say anything they think you want to hear for $10 cash and trinkets for their kids. Forget any of the surprisingly high number of households where an illegal lives, or where someone in the home has an outstanding arrest warrant or is a parole violator. Same for many of the owners of homes who have converted their garage to an apartment without benefit of proper zoning and/or building permits. There's also no way with potential participants of a specific psychographic profile - the paranoid and government fearing, as well as the just plain rebellious or aging hippie. Getting the picture?
My favorite was a guy in his 30s who was living with 2 underage girls. He was providing them with drugs, screwing their brains out, and pimping them. Ya gotta love it! Yea, I got his interview and household demo info, including the girls - I didn't need their names, only his. I ended up staying for dinner and well into the evening.
Still reading? Get a life! ;-)
While, as fans, we'd LOVE to be part of a Nielsen survey, for most random folks this is as interesting as a survey about root canal, and they just don't care nor want to submit to the time and trouble. So if only certain people can be coerced to participate at all, and many of them fill out the entire diary when the letter comes to send it back, I submit that this is not even close to a sample of the population. Flawed? Hell yes.
It's like navigating Vermont with a map of New Hampshire. It's the only map you have, so you use it as best you can.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Aug 3 2003, 01:38 AM\'] [quote name=\'Dan Sadro\' date=\'Aug 2 2003, 08:33 PM\']It's not a flawed system at all... [/quote]
We just read why it's flawed. Only a certain kind of person will participate. Sure, the sample selection is great methodology, but many of those selected never participate. [/quote]
Wow -- I just reread what I wrote and was confused myself.
From a statistical standpoint, the system that they use isn't flawed. Random means random, and you need to go tooth and nail to get these random people to do what you need them to do. As was stated, however, it's tough and you'll never have that perfect statistical sample.
Maybe we can blame these tinfoil hat-wearing or business professional people for the faux-reality craze.
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Was anyone here actually called upon to fill out one of those hollowed diaries?
I filled out a TV diary in 1979 - luckily (or unluckily) I was sick three days that week and stayed home from school. I made sure I filled out my diary with my favorite game shows for those three days.
More recently, I did a radio one and got paid $5. I'd love to do a TV one again!
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LUcky in 1979(if the sickness isn't that severe), in 2003, eh, just TPIR now(other than GSN shows)