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Interesting article I read - makes sense that Vegas is one of GSN's better markets. Also note the 4th quarter performance statistic about halfway down...
Rob
http://www.casinocitytimes.com/news/articl...ontentID=147799 (http://\"http://www.casinocitytimes.com/news/article.cfm?contentID=147799\")
(EDITED: Link provided instead of entire article. --DZ)
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[quote name=\'TraderRob\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 01:10 AM\']Interesting article I read - makes sense that Vegas is one of GSN's better markets. Also note the 4th quarter performance statistic about halfway down...[/quote]
Too bad you couldn't bother to provide a source.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 02:40 AM\']Too bad you couldn't bother to provide a source.
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Ummm........ I think Liz Benston from The Las Vegas Sun is source enough. A link, however, is another story.
Tyshaun
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Well, one must admit the story is rather odd. I know we've been bitching about demographics and how GSN was trying to skew younger. Evidently, that isn't working. The overall numbers seem to be down, the demo (if it was really that high) seems to be going nowhere, and GSN has wasted a lot of money in the process. I've long believed that if GSN wanted to skew younger without a large outlay of cash, they should go back to making originals, and eventually go all original. It's how all the other nets live. And they can still make 130 eps a year doing it.
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- The source was indicated at the top of the article
- What difference does a link vs. copying and pasting make?
One other thing I forgot to ask was that the article references Vegas as GSN's #4 market. Does anybody know what the top 3 happen to be?
Rob
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50th looks to be what GSN was around during the Oct 04 ratings done by Starz. It really is amazing how they don't attempt at all to make the channel better by buying new programming that hasn't been seen in at least 5 years. They value cheapness over different programming and higher ratings obviously. Well it's starting to pay off. GSN's low ratings and refusal to add any different game shows during the daily schedule is starting to bite them in the ... I can't say they don't deserve it. I also wouldn't be surprised to see other cable networks owned by Cox to start moving GSN to digital too.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041111/lath073_1.html (http://\"http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041111/lath073_1.html\") (ratings for oct 04)
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[quote name=\'TraderRob\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 10:27 AM\']- What difference does a link vs. copying and pasting make?
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The latter violates copyright laws while the former does not. For that reason, the latter is also against the Eligibility Requirements (http://\"http://gameshow.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3\") (see #11) while the former is not.
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[quote name=\'TraderRob\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 08:27 AM\']- The source was indicated at the top of the article
[/quote]
Yes it was, don't worry about DSmith, his Cheerios seem to have a fair amount of piss in them of late.
- What difference does a link vs. copying and pasting make?
As a rule I think our moderators prefer a link to what might be copyrighted material as opposed to pasting for reasons of legality, particularly if you're pasting the whole article as opposed to relevant passages. (Personally, I'm with you, I think it's a wee bit paranoid (and I say that with utmost respect to our moderation team), but they pay the bills and don't ask too much of us in return, so I think it's reaosnable to indulge them.)
One other thing I forgot to ask was that the article references Vegas as GSN's #4 market. Does anybody know what the top 3 happen to be?
Purely a guess, but with a gun to my head I'd say New York and LA are 1-2, and Chicago at 3 wouldn't surprise me. I would imagine Vegas edges out San Francisco based on the gambling aspect and the large number of retireees.
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[quote name=\'dzinkin\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 11:32 AM\'][quote name=\'TraderRob\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 10:27 AM\']- What difference does a link vs. copying and pasting make?
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The latter violates copyright laws while the former does not. For that reason, the latter is also against the Eligibility Requirements (http://\"http://gameshow.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3\") (see #11) while the former is not.
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My apologies - I don't post here very often but I will keep that in mind for next time...
Rob
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[quote name=\'TraderRob\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 12:01 PM\'][quote name=\'dzinkin\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 11:32 AM\'][quote name=\'TraderRob\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 10:27 AM\']- What difference does a link vs. copying and pasting make?
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The latter violates copyright laws while the former does not. For that reason, the latter is also against the Eligibility Requirements (http://\"http://gameshow.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3\") (see #11) while the former is not.
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My apologies - I don't post here very often but I will keep that in mind for next time...
Rob
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No prob. We'll only suspend you for five nanoseconds for this offense. :-D
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 11:33 AM\']Yes it was, don't worry about DSmith, his Cheerios seem to have a fair amount of piss in them of late.
[/quote]
Sorry if I seem overly protective of copyright law. As someone who write commentary for a motorsports website, I've had articles c/p'ed in the exact same manner; much to my chargin.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 11:15 AM\'][quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 11:33 AM\']Yes it was, don't worry about DSmith, his Cheerios seem to have a fair amount of piss in them of late.
[/quote]
Sorry if I seem overly protective of copyright law. As someone who write commentary for a motorsports website, I've had articles c/p'ed in the exact same manner; much to my chargin.
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Steaming crap, Mark, and you know it. "Too bad you couldn't bother to provide a source" has nothing to do with cut/paste issues. Especially when a source was plainly present.
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[quote name=\'xibit777\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 10:49 AM\']50th looks to be what GSN was around during the Oct 04 ratings done by Starz. It really is amazing how they don't attempt at all to make the channel better by buying new programming that hasn't been seen in at least 5 years. They value cheapness over different programming and higher ratings obviously. Well it's starting to pay off. GSN's low ratings and refusal to add any different game shows during the daily schedule is starting to bite them in the ... I can't say they don't deserve it. I also wouldn't be surprised to see other cable networks owned by Cox to start moving GSN to digital too.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041111/lath073_1.html (http://\"http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041111/lath073_1.html\") (ratings for oct 04)
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Cox owns systems, they don't own networks.
And do you have anything that proves that they were getting better numbers with an all-vintage game show lineup? If you're talking about the early days, they weren't in enough homes to be rated by Nielsen until 2000 or so, way back in the days of Burt Luddin and "All-New 3s a Crowd" the first time around (and when people were complaining about the schedule around here).
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http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.tv...76050ed7c4fa4c7 (http://\"http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.tv.game-shows/browse_thread/thread/cef2bfa358e1a787/b76050ed7c4fa4c7?q=gsn+ratings+group:alt.tv.game-shows&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fq%3Dgsn+ratings+group:alt.tv.game-shows%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#b76050ed7c4fa4c7\")
Primetime, May 2001. The Final 2 or 3 numbers in each row is the total number of viewers watching in terms of thousands.
---
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.tv...044ed561908ff00 (http://\"http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.tv.game-shows/browse_thread/thread/2f8ecd0e51381ea/4044ed561908ff00?q=gsn+ratings+group:alt.tv.game-shows&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fq%3Dgsn+ratings+group:alt.tv.game-shows%26start%3D10%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#4044ed561908ff00\")
Primetime, Late April/Early
You may need to click "Show Quoted Text"
Again, the last two/three numbers in a given row are total viewers.
The average number of viewers, respective of both sets of data, is in the 100,000 mark, give or take a few millon. This means that if you assume the number given in the LV article (145,000) is the average number of viewers for GSN....GSN, in THREE YEARS, gaining almost 10 million households, and spending ungodly amounts of money on new classics, originals...a rebranding effort, multiple executive changes (New President, Two VP's of Programming, multiple other executive changes) since April 30, 2001, and so forth.....for 45,000-ish viewers.
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ISTR that the 145,000 or so viewers is probably referring to total day average, not primetime. While not great, it's not that bad. Just look at several other networks (G4TTV, E!, etc.), they LOVE to pull around a .3 rating during the day. Heck, a few (G4TTV) would love to pull a .3 at night. ;)
Tyshaun
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If GSN is 50th in the ratings, they most likely pull in a .2 average for all day. At least based on the last Starz ratings report, that would be the case.
And Dream Derby is a nightmare. Lingo and RR pulled in a .8 or .9 during it's first season. Dream Derby costed SO much more and pulled in a .4 That is BAD bad bad. The network has been headed in a terrible direction ever since they made the last season of Lingo. If they would have made game show originals along with casino games and maybe Dodgeball, then things would have probably turned out great and they would have shows to replace their 3 year old originals running in daytime.
You know, not 1 show that GSN has made since the name change has made it to weekly daytime showings? Those shows do not rerun well at all. Are we going to have to see FoF and Lingo's 1 or 2 seasons running over and over for the next 10 years? If they keep on the same path with making no new original game shows or buying no new classics we will. They seem to have absolutely no long term plan at all.
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[quote name=\'xibit777\' date=\'Jan 27 2005, 11:01 AM\']And Dream Derby is a nightmare. Lingo and RR pulled in a .8 or .9 during it's first season. Dream Derby costed SO much more and pulled in a .4 That is BAD bad bad. [/quote]
ADD (fitting abbreviation, eh?) has Cronin's name all over it so there's no way they're going to bury it unless the ratings become absolutely dire.
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If I may....
In the event that GSN somehow sees fit to delete one of my latest posts because they think I hate them, I'd like for there to be a record of it somewhere. It contains a portion of Seth's post from earlier in this thread. It also has my response to it. I was responding to a new poster who did not like what GSN was doing on the programming side (again.....yes, I know we bitch about all day.......okay almost all day.....) Anyway, here's a copy of the post
Originally posted January 27, 2005 at 1:31 PM ET on the GSN boards:
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Welcome, ladieluck!!
You will find many friends on this board who share your view (I being one of them.)
Many of us have complained about the direction GSN took last year with all of the reality and casino programming. We believe that there should be more "traditional" game show programming on GSN (much like "Whammy" or "Russian Roulette" as examples).
The following excerpt is a post made by our own Seth Thrasher at another popular game show board. He posted an old post from ATGS concerning GSN's ratings from May, 2001. The post can be accessed here.
Here is Seth's response to it:
The average number of viewers, respective of both sets of data, is in the 100,000 mark, give or take a few millon. This means that if you assume the number given in the LV article (145,000) is the average number of viewers for GSN....GSN, in THREE YEARS, gaining almost 10 million households, and spending ungodly amounts of money on new classics, originals...a rebranding effort, multiple executive changes (New President, Two VP's of Programming, multiple other executive changes) since April 30, 2001, and so forth.....for 45,000-ish viewers.
My response to Seth's post:
GSN would be better off putting its' money back in game shows. It should be making more originals and more eps per run than what it has done.
I know a lot of other networks (namely Discovery) tend to do 13 show seasons for their shows. But there's two differences:
1 - Discovery and their kin don't constantly rerun their shows to death (on these boards, it's called "rerun abuse") They tend to be very timely, and will make enough to last a full year, if need be.
2 - Game shows are not the same kind of animal as what other networks put out. It requires a full commitment to the genre, one that GSN has lacked for a long time. You can't produce 65 eps and say done, and repeat 8 or 9 times then kill. Once the eps are through, the average GSN viewer will say "Hey, I just saw that three months ago! Are they rerunning already?", and not come back unless they know more shows are coming. And that's how GSN loses viewers in the rerun cycle. And GSN forgets how many viewers each show has because they only count the last cycle through. That was their justification for not renewing any of the 2002 originals. I've long maintained that USA did their originals right (most notably with the late 80's "Chain Reaction"). They ordered up 130 eps every year, played them from January to June, replayed them from July- December, and did it all over again (in CR's case, for five years.)
(sorry for the long post )
Once again, welcome to you.
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(you can also respond here with whatever thoughts you'd like.)
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Please, please, PLEASE don't drag the muck of GSN's boards over here.
Why do you even bother with their boards? You're obviously educated and have a decent grasp of English... which makes you an outsider there...
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[quote name=\'melman1\' date=\'Jan 27 2005, 02:42 PM\']Why do you even bother with their boards?
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TheKid's reminiscings of old shows?
Lively discussions about Dodgeball?
Black & White Overnight Review?
There are plenty of good discussions over there, just as good as the ones here.
This can't be good for GSN. They can't afford to lose viewers like that, not in big markets. What else to they have to do keep themselves in the lower tier? I just think it's ironic that with all of the casino programming of late they get dropped in Las Vegas of all places.
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[quote name=\'CarShark\' date=\'Jan 27 2005, 03:47 PM\']Lively discussions about Dodgeball?
[/quote]
Ranting; followed by a series of: "gsn sucks they should stop showing dodgeball and air give 'n take instead" hardly quantifies as a "lively" discussion.
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That's an EXCELLENT generalization, Mark. You should be ever so proud.
I'm sure there are some people who are on the boards that:
1) enjoy Extreme Dodgeball (I've seen one episode from Season Two, and I enjoyed it)
2) can discuss it properly.
Don't lump everyone together just because of some bad eggs.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' date=\'Jan 27 2005, 04:11 PM\']That's an EXCELLENT generalization, Mark. You should be ever so proud.
[/quote]
Have you ever visited the GSN boards? It's filled with people who make it their daily habit to complain that GSN scrunched the ad for Crunch 'N Munch. Last time I checked, their board had about 10 worthwhile posters.
If you want to defend that kind of behavior, go right ahead.
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I'm not defending the (n-10) posters who post crap, I'm just saying that, as you admit, there ARE ten people who do post worthwhile stuff to the boards, even if it is the equivalent of UseNet by now.
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..........wonders if he's one of the ten..........
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In regards to cable networks in general, it's strange that in order to get added to a cable system, the network has to pitch the niche. In order to stay on, it has to ditch the niche.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Jan 28 2005, 01:32 AM\']In regards to cable networks in general, it's strange that in order to get added to a cable system, the network has to pitch the niche. In order to stay on, it has to ditch the niche.
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An unfortunate thing that's happened too many times to too many cable channels...How I loved some cable channels when they started (Sci-Fi, Cartoon Network, et. al.) and how they've changed...
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[quote name=\'aaron sica\' date=\'Jan 28 2005, 10:31 AM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Jan 28 2005, 01:32 AM\']In regards to cable networks in general, it's strange that in order to get added to a cable system, the network has to pitch the niche. In order to stay on, it has to ditch the niche.
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An unfortunate thing that's happened too many times to too many cable channels...How I loved some cable channels when they started (Sci-Fi, Cartoon Network, et. al.) and how they've changed...
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Scifi has a very good programming FAQ:
http://www.scifi.com/feedback/FAQ1.html (http://\"http://www.scifi.com/feedback/FAQ1.html\")
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Jan 28 2005, 10:49 AM\']
Scifi has a very good programming FAQ:
http://www.scifi.com/feedback/FAQ1.html (http://\"http://www.scifi.com/feedback/FAQ1.html\")
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That was wonderfully written. GSN should have something clear and concise like that, instead of having a long FAQ thread on their bulletin board section.
I knew something was amiss at Sci-Fi when they started running the "Flintstones" movies..
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Jan 28 2005, 08:49 AM\']Scifi has a very good programming FAQ:
http://www.scifi.com/feedback/FAQ1.html (http://\"http://www.scifi.com/feedback/FAQ1.html\")
[/quote]
"Good" is understatement. That's incredible. Thanks for sharing that.
Man, the question about squeezing the credits should be stuck in OUR FAQ. But then I guess nobody in the GSN section would have anything to bitch about....
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Not to rain on their parade, but a couple of questions after the one on the crunchy credits they tell you the best way to contact actors, etc is to read the credits to find out how to contact the producers.
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It's certainly interesting that Scifi HAS such a page. Too bad about the several weaselly answers on it.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 11:33 AM\']
[quote name=\'TraderRob\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 08:27 AM\']- The source was indicated at the top of the article
[/quote]
Yes it was, don't worry about DSmith, his Cheerios seem to have a fair amount of piss in them of late.
And yet it's allowed to continue. Every other post is nothing but steaming crap from him.
Anyways, are there any markets left that run GSN on analog cable? It was never offered on mine until digital came out.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' date=\'Jan 27 2005, 04:15 PM\'][quote name=\'TLEberle\' date=\'Jan 27 2005, 04:11 PM\']That's an EXCELLENT generalization, Mark. You should be ever so proud.
[/quote]
Have you ever visited the GSN boards? It's filled with people who make it their daily habit to complain that GSN scrunched the ad for Crunch 'N Munch. Last time I checked, their board had about 10 worthwhile posters.
If you want to defend that kind of behavior, go right ahead.
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Is the "I agree, thanks for the info" guy still there (tom3?)
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I live on the west coast. And on analog, GSN runs the west coast feed. On digital, it runs the east coast feed.
It's just wonderful. In the morning I can watch the east coast feed and see game shows starting at 7am, and in the evening I can watch game shows on the west coast feed while the reality crap runs on the east coast feed.
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"Good" is understatement. That's incredible.
Agreed. And double agreed we should have such a document up. Dare say it should be in the archives. It would be reminiscent of the ATGS FAQ's portions where common questions were answered. At the very least, somebody should set up an intelligent thread about the hows and whys of GSN.
-Jason
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[quote name=\'passwordplus\' date=\'Jan 29 2005, 10:50 AM\']Anyways, are there any markets left that run GSN on analog cable? It was never offered on mine until digital came out.
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My guess is that there are actually more systems with GSN on analog than there used to be. Comcast has moved GSN from digital to analog on some of their systems of TCI heritage...I know they did that in the South Hills area of Pittsburgh, where I used to live.
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[quote name=\'passwordplus\' date=\'Jan 29 2005, 01:50 PM\']Anyways, are there any markets left that run GSN on analog cable? It was never offered on mine until digital came out.
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Yes. Where I live, my cable system is Comcast Harrisburg, which runs GSN 24/7 on channel 73....
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[quote name=\'passwordplus\' date=\'Jan 29 2005, 01:50 PM\']Anyways, are there any markets left that run GSN on analog cable? It was never offered on mine until digital came out.
[/quote]
Burnsville, Minnesota [St. Paul/Minneapolis] has it on 99
St. Louis, Missouri [Comcast, I believe...I've watched it in Lebanon, Illinois...home to McKendree College...has GSN on channel 54]
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[quote name=\'passwordplus\' date=\'Jan 29 2005, 01:50 PM\']Anyways, are there any markets left that run GSN on analog cable? It was never offered on mine until digital came out.
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in certain Chicago markets, WOW! Internet & Cable provides service and GSN is on analog channel 89 or 84, depending on whether or not you have a box. Unfortunately, they didn't add it to their lineup until September 10, 2002 while "Scam"cast had it going back to 1998 or possibly even earlier.
Rob
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[quote name=\'TraderRob\' date=\'Jan 30 2005, 12:58 PM\']Unfortunately, they didn't add it to their lineup until September 10, 2002 while "Scam"cast had it going back to 1998 or possibly even earlier.
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It's "Comcrap." Get it right next time. :-D
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[quote name=\'passwordplus\' date=\'Jan 29 2005, 01:50 PM\']Anyways, are there any markets left that run GSN on analog cable? It was never offered on mine until digital came out.
[/quote]
In my former county of residence (Lincoln County, Tennessee), the cable system of Fayetteville Electric System (now Fayetteville Public Utilities) has had GSN on analog channel 68 since the system's inception in late 2000. I had access to that system (and what was then Game Show Network) from late September 2001 to late October 2002. While I haven't had the channel in my home since (having moved to an area where the FPU cable system didn't reach, and now living in Madison County, Alabama and served by Mediacom), I'm very certain that it is still on the FPU cable system.
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[quote name=\'dzinkin\' date=\'Jan 30 2005, 01:06 PM\'][quote name=\'TraderRob\' date=\'Jan 30 2005, 12:58 PM\']Unfortunately, they didn't add it to their lineup until September 10, 2002 while "Scam"cast had it going back to 1998 or possibly even earlier.
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It's "Comcrap." Get it right next time. :-D
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No, it's sh**cast. Actually amazing that another cable company beat Time Warner for this award.
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Another cable system that broadcasts GSN on analog is Susquehanna Communications (SusCom), in York/Hanover and Williamsport, PA.
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When I stayed on Long Island two summers ago, it was on their analog lineup as well (Channel 17 IIRC). Whether or not it's still there is beyond me.
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Somewhat off-topic, but Mediacom in central Iowa offers RFD-TV on Analog, #59. I had not heard of this channel on any satelite pacakge, nor on any cable system.
Has anyone else HEARD of RFD-TV?
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[quote name=\'Modor\' date=\'Feb 2 2005, 09:46 PM\']Somewhat off-topic, but Mediacom in central Iowa offers RFD-TV on Analog, #59. I had not heard of this channel on any satelite pacakge, nor on any cable system.
Has anyone else HEARD of RFD-TV?
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I have, Mark. DirecTV offers it, as does DISH Network. I don't think I ever watched it though, as I never found something interesting on it.
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RFD-TV is on Channel 379 on DirecTV.
They have some old country music shows, like the Wilbourn Brothers and Porter Wagoner, as well as some polka shows, that might be of interest to folks other than farmers.
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[quote name=\'Fedya\' date=\'Feb 2 2005, 07:16 PM\']They have some old country music shows, like the Wilbourn Brothers and Porter Wagoner, as well as some polka shows, that might be of interest to folks other than farmers.
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And some train-related programming, which is of interest to this particular trainman, even though he lives in the no-longer-rural San Fernando Valley.
In fact -- and I hope this isn't grounds for getting kicked off this forum -- I currently watch RFD-TV more often than I watch GSN.
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[quote name=\'Fedya\' date=\'Feb 2 2005, 10:16 PM\']RFD-TV is on Channel 379 on DirecTV.
They have some old country music shows, like the Wilbourn Brothers and Porter Wagoner, as well as some polka shows, that might be of interest to folks other than farmers.
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There just might be a home for Fandango reruns if Reid/Land ever was looking for a home for them :)
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Feb 5 2005, 06:22 PM\']There just might be a home for Fandango reruns if Reid/Land ever was looking for a home for them :)
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Fandango...now there's a show that needs to be reran about as much as I need someone to fire a nailgun at my ass,
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[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' date=\'Feb 5 2005, 07:40 PM\']Fandango...now there's a show that needs to be reran about as much as I need someone to fire a nailgun at my ass,
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I think people underestimate the importance of firing a nailgun into one's self...
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[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' date=\'Feb 5 2005, 05:40 PM\']Fandango...now there's a show that needs to be reran about as much as I need someone to fire a nailgun at my ass,
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Hey, that wouldn't be a bad round for Distraction....
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The last three lines above?
Ties for LINE OF THE DAY!
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..and besides, MTV Networks owns the rights to "Fandango." Unless they're thinking for a game show for CMT, it ain't comin' back.