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Ok, I have a few questions about this. From my understanding, Wheel was not the anchor of the NBC Daytime lineup or was it?
Also I didn't recall Wheel being the no.1 show amongst gameshows/daytime tv period?
So is that man still under the wheel controlling when the wheel would stop? (I always knew that Wheel was a fishy show)
If Wheel debuted in 76, and the Erasure of NBC happened in 78 with prior shows and years gone because of that, wouldn't shows after 78 survived? (Case in point, where is Goodson-Todman's Mindreaders at anyways?)
Could the fact that the "missing episodes" of the Woolery/Stafford era be because of the contract dispute with Griffin? Is the man that mean, spiteful, and hateful?
When did the shopping era come to a close?
Why in the world did Wheel become so darn cheap when CBS picked it up? Press Your Luck had a bigger budget than that!
Who do you believe, Chuck or Merv about the contract dispute?
---and for the 25 point boner, (audience laughter SFX) I mean bonus question, do you think Chuck could do the job again, if given the opportunity?
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[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Jan 25 2005, 12:32 PM\']Ok, I have a few questions about this. From my understanding, Wheel was not the anchor of the NBC Daytime lineup or was it?
Also I didn't recall Wheel being the no.1 show amongst gameshows/daytime tv period?
So is that man still under the wheel controlling when the wheel would stop? (I always knew that Wheel was a fishy show)
If Wheel debuted in 76, and the Erasure of NBC happened in 78 with prior shows and years gone because of that, wouldn't shows after 78 survived? (Case in point, where is Goodson-Todman's Mindreaders at anyways?)
Could the fact that the "missing episodes" of the Woolery/Stafford era be because of the contract dispute with Griffin? Is the man that mean, spiteful, and hateful?
When did the shopping era come to a close?
Why in the world did Wheel become so darn cheap when CBS picked it up? Press Your Luck had a bigger budget than that!
Who do you believe, Chuck or Merv about the contract dispute?
---and for the 25 point boner, (audience laughter SFX) I mean bonus question, do you think Chuck could do the job again, if given the opportunity?
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I thinK hollywood squares was a "bigger" anchor. But it always seemed to me that the shows supplemented each other.
Reference please?
Probably not. And NO game show is rigged. Get that through your head.
That's a theory that may be true...but we don;t know. And wheel premiered in 75, not 76.
NO. That doesn't even make sense.
1987 syndicated, 1989 daytime.
The budget had been steadily cut from Pat leaving. (102K on Pat's last show, 77K on Rolf's first, 40K on Goen's first) To keep in tandem with the nighttime show, they switched to all cash...but with a smaller budget, they made the prizes smaller. Its akin to TPIR's daytime and nighttime budgets.
Neither. They're both lying. :-)
Maybe, but now that pat has hosted for 3 times as long as he did, it wouldn't make much sense to bring him back.
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[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Jan 25 2005, 10:32 AM\']Ok, I have a few questions about this. From my understanding, Wheel was not the anchor of the NBC Daytime lineup or was it?
Also I didn't recall Wheel being the no.1 show amongst gameshows/daytime tv period?
So is that man still under the wheel controlling when the wheel would stop? (I always knew that Wheel was a fishy show)
If Wheel debuted in 76, and the Erasure of NBC happened in 78 with prior shows and years gone because of that, wouldn't shows after 78 survived? (Case in point, where is Goodson-Todman's Mindreaders at anyways?)
Could the fact that the "missing episodes" of the Woolery/Stafford era be because of the contract dispute with Griffin? Is the man that mean, spiteful, and hateful?
When did the shopping era come to a close?
Why in the world did Wheel become so darn cheap when CBS picked it up? Press Your Luck had a bigger budget than that!
Who do you believe, Chuck or Merv about the contract dispute?
---and for the 25 point boner, (audience laughter SFX) I mean bonus question, do you think Chuck could do the job again, if given the opportunity?
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In no particular order: yes, no, no, because, 1987, and Cleveland.
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---and for the 25 point boner, (audience laughter SFX) I mean bonus question, do you think Chuck could do the job again, if given the opportunity?
Based on what Chuck has said about his regretting leaving WOF, I think he would consider it. Merv has nothing to do with Wheel anymore, so that shouldn't be a factor. The only problem is, Wheel has changed since so much since Chuck left. No more shopping, the addition of toss up puzzles, and I think the bonus game was only there towards the end of the run.
I'd love to see Chuck return for an April Fools episode, or if they do retro week again, there would be another opportunity.
On the other hand, Chuck may not want to come back, even for one show, because Wheel has become so much "Pat's show", that he'd just be invading what's become his territory.
Nancy Jones commented on the E! THS that Pat was a little difficult during the time that he had his own talk show, and he seemed bored with Wheel. Does anyone here think that sometimes Pat looks bored with Wheel today?
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[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jan 25 2005, 12:56 PM\']Reference please?
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It was mentioned in the THS, but that caught me too. Wheel never finished #1 for the season, or at least not in daytime. In the 70s #1 was MG7x up until 77 or 78 or so, FF for a year, and TPiR since then. The highest Wheel ever got was #2, and that was early-80s at least.
It was the #1 game show on NBC for several years, but that's about it. It faced TPiR throughout the 80s, so it obviously wasn't winning its time slot.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jan 25 2005, 03:10 PM\'][quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jan 25 2005, 12:56 PM\']Reference please?
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It was mentioned in the THS, but that caught me too. Wheel never finished #1 for the season, or at least not in daytime. In the 70s #1 was MG7x up until 77 or 78 or so, FF for a year, and TPiR since then. The highest Wheel ever got was #2, and that was early-80s at least.
It was the #1 game show on NBC for several years, but that's about it. It faced TPiR throughout the 80s, so it obviously wasn't winning its time slot.
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And number 1 overall in daytime for the network--which didn't say much about NBC's record in daytime back then.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Jan 25 2005, 03:23 PM\'][quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jan 25 2005, 03:10 PM\'][quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jan 25 2005, 12:56 PM\']Reference please?
[/quote]
It was mentioned in the THS, but that caught me too. Wheel never finished #1 for the season, or at least not in daytime. In the 70s #1 was MG7x up until 77 or 78 or so, FF for a year, and TPiR since then. The highest Wheel ever got was #2, and that was early-80s at least.
It was the #1 game show on NBC for several years, but that's about it. It faced TPiR throughout the 80s, so it obviously wasn't winning its time slot.
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And number 1 overall in daytime for the network--which didn't say much about NBC's record in daytime back then.
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Exactly. I bet that's the missing context.
Where did all of those Woolery clips come from?
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well I didn't want to open Pandora's Box but this is why I was asking about the status of Chuck's episodes, if there were truly erased or are they not being aired. I contacted the Griffin Group last year about this issue and they told me that I would have to contact Sony as they bought the game show properties of Merv Griffin Enterprises and also they said that Merv never erased any of his projects, so with that in mind, I have to think that they are either somewhere in some studio vault intact (with Griffin knowing where they are) or maybe they are locked up and someone have forgot them. I'm also going on this theory because Dark Shadows and Hollywood Squares were found in a vault somewhere all intact. I really dont believe that all the properties that NBC "supposedly" erase are actually gone. I think that the location of the properties are forgotten due to company take overs, name changes, etcs. ALSO I must say that those clips shown on the ETHS, were very clear as if they borrowed footage from a master recording. And even though video tapes were expensive back in the day, if CBS and ABC preserved most of there stuff, NBC could have as well. Wouldn't legal copyright issues come forward about a third party erasing my work??? Case in point, IIRC look at the Texaco Star Theatre, supposedly those shows were "missing" but a lawsuit brought them up to dry land, ehh? Think about it. I would like those in the business to respond to this so I can get another point of view please!
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[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Jan 25 2005, 08:01 PM\']Case in point, IIRC look at the Texaco Star Theatre, supposedly those shows were "missing" but a lawsuit brought them up to dry land, ehh? Think about it.
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The last person who wove conspiracy theories out of whole cloth, then told us to "think about it", isn't a member here any more.
Just sayin.
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Most, if not all, of the Woolery clips I recognized from trips to the Museum of Television and Radio and/or UCLA. Combined they have about a dozen episodes, so it's not out of the realm they got them from there.
--Mike
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Does anyone think that if Pat wouldn't have left the daytime version it might have survived to this day?
I mean, did the ratings tank so quickly with Rolfe behind the "wheel" that NBC had to pull the plug, or were they in a steady decline.
I just can't believe that the show was #1 at night, and I imagine most of the people who watch at night are around to watch during the day. Maybe Pat Sajak didn't realize it at the time, but he was already doing "the Pat Sajak Show" before he went to CBS.
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[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Jan 25 2005, 01:32 PM\']So is that man still under the wheel controlling when the wheel would stop? (I always knew that Wheel was a fishy show)
If Wheel debuted in 76, and the Erasure of NBC happened in 78 with prior shows and years gone because of that, wouldn't shows after 78 survived? (Case in point, where is Goodson-Todman's Mindreaders at anyways?)
Could the fact that the "missing episodes" of the Woolery/Stafford era be because of the contract dispute with Griffin? Is the man that mean, spiteful, and hateful?
Why in the world did Wheel become so darn cheap when CBS picked it up? Press Your Luck had a bigger budget than that!
Who do you believe, Chuck or Merv about the contract dispute?
---and for the 25 point boner, (audience laughter SFX) I mean bonus question, do you think Chuck could do the job again, if given the opportunity?
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Note I'm only answering a few of these, because I think everyone else answered them better among those who did.
-You sound like someone who wrote in to the TV section of a paper complaining that Wheel was rigged, and the writer responded with something along the lines of that person needed help. (Saw it on Leno.)
-Doubt it. Jeopardy! 1978 had only one episode exist, I believe (game of the week).
-No- they probably don't exist.
-Uh...your point? By 1989 a lot of shows were cheapened. Think about when PYL aired, and look at it later. Need I remind you what happened on Sale Of The Century? Once the WBMG came in, the prize budget seemed to go down.
-Don't care.
-If you asked me five years ago, I'd say yes. Not nowadays.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 01:44 PM\']-Doubt it. Jeopardy! 1978 had only one episode exist, I believe (game of the week).
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The episode shown on Game of the Week was the 2000th episode from the original run, best as I can remember.
One episode, that I can recall has aired from the second NBC version; that being the finale during the "Y2Play" Marathon.
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You're correct that GSN has aired two episodes of the Fleming version of "Jeopardy" - the 2000th episode, and the last from the '78-79 version. The first from that version exists among traders, as do a few others from the original '64-75 run. It is believed that GSN has the entire '78-79 version, but - like many other shorter-run shows - has chosen not to air it, except on special occasions like the former "Game of the Week".
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As far as Wheel being rigged, sorry I made that comment, it was only a joke really! There is a group called S & P which would have a fit and also NOW, Sony would be under heavy investigation and it would have a domino effect on all of their properties and King World's properties. Money people!
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' date=\'Jan 26 2005, 01:44 PM\'] Need I remind you what happened on Sale Of The Century? Once the WBMG came in, the prize budget seemed to go down.
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So true. In the fifteen months that bonus round was played, they gave away how many cars? Two? Three?
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So true. In the fifteen months that bonus round was played, they gave away how many cars? Two? Three?
Prolly right...only 2 come to mind for me, Rani White (who, on the next show, became the only player in the WBMG's history to win the $50K) and Phil Cambry.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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A couple of random notes about the special and comments made here:
First, perhaps I misheard the documentary, but I believe they said that the Bob Goen version was cancelled by CBS in September, 1991. It is true that Wheel was cancelled then, but by then it had made it back to NBC; it switched back to its original network back in January, 1991.
Also, there was some discussion here about whether or not Chuck could do the job today. Who knows for sure, but a related anecdote: One day at Greed, during a commercial break, Chuck was talking about his time on Wheel (I don't remember if the discussion was related to the couple of times on the show when his Wheel hosting became the subject of discussion), and all of a sudden he broke into his old routine: "$500 is the top value on the wheel; watch out for that black space, Bankrupt, because if you hit it, you lose all your cash, but not your prizes, because once you buy a prize, it's yours to keep." Didn't miss a beat. He followed that up by remarking, "I don't remember any of that Scrabble %$#@!"
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[quote name=\'davidhammett\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 12:47 AM\']A couple of random notes about the special and comments made here:
First, perhaps I misheard the documentary, but I believe they said that the Bob Goen version was cancelled by CBS in September, 1991. It is true that Wheel was cancelled then, but by then it had made it back to NBC; it switched back to its original network back in January, 1991.
Also, there was some discussion here about whether or not Chuck could do the job today. Who knows for sure
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It wasn't mentioned about the Goen version moving back to NBC in 1991(of course it still taped at CBS when it switched to NBC), but it was mentioned the daytime version was cancelled in September 1991(they were off by a month or so on that, as the last three weeks of the run were reruns)
If CHuck could handle Scrabble and Greed as well as he did, he could handle the modern era of WOF. Scrabble and Greed were probably more complex rule-wise than WOF was/is.
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It wasn't mentioned about the Goen version moving back to NBC in 1991(of course it still taped at CBS when it switched to NBC), but it was mentioned the daytime version was cancelled in September 1991(they were off by a month or so on that, as the last three weeks of the run were reruns)
I never saw the final show before they went to reruns (although I've been on the hunt for it). Did they ever do a "goodbye" on the last show, or was it just a regular "see you next time"?
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 09:19 AM\']I never saw the final show before they went to reruns (although I've been on the hunt for it). Did they ever do a "goodbye" on the last show, or was it just a regular "see you next time"?
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IIRC, the last show goes into the books with PYL, MG '79, and Combs FF. IOW, no goodbyes. Were these shows put out of production before the next taping? You would think that the network would at least give these shows one last taping to say a formal goodbye.......
Tyshaun
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 09:19 AM\']
It wasn't mentioned about the Goen version moving back to NBC in 1991(of course it still taped at CBS when it switched to NBC), but it was mentioned the daytime version was cancelled in September 1991(they were off by a month or so on that, as the last three weeks of the run were reruns)
I never saw the final show before they went to reruns (although I've been on the hunt for it). Did they ever do a "goodbye" on the last show, or was it just a regular "see you next time"?
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I remember seeing the final first-run Goen WOF on 8/30/91, which I didn't know until finding out on ATGS a few years later was the last first-run episode. There was no goodbye, just like on the Rolf finale.
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[quote name=\'tyshaun1\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 10:05 AM\']
IIRC, the last show goes into the books with PYL, MG '79, and Combs FF. IOW, no goodbyes. Were these shows put out of production before the next taping? You would think that the network would at least give these shows one last taping to say a formal goodbye.......
Tyshaun
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CBS MG7x never got a goodbye, as the show was pulled by CBS with episodes still unaired. The unaired episodes didn't air until GSN aired them in SUmmer 2001, at least on a national level. The final aired CBS MG7x on 4/20/79 had a blank screen during the part where Johnny O. would announce the celebs that would be on the next five shows.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 09:18 AM\']There was no goodbye, just like on the Rolf finale.
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There may not have been an official goodbye on the Rolf finale, but sharp-eyed viewers might've noticed a longer than usual credit roll (including camera operators, which NBC almost never credited on its daytime games). From 1984 (GO!) to 1990 (SCRABBLE), most NBC daytime game exits included extra credits.
Doug -- and the countdown to 1000 continues
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There may not have been an official goodbye on the Rolf finale, but sharp-eyed viewers might've noticed a longer than usual credit roll (including camera operators, which NBC almost never credited on its daytime games). From 1984 (GO!) to 1990 (SCRABBLE), most NBC daytime game exits included extra credits.
What surprises me is that there are some shows where they didn't do a full credit roll on the final show - "Family Feud" is one that comes to mind - and I know I've seen others. Maybe they figured Richard's goodbye speech would take too much time and decided to run the credits on an earlier show that week(?)
Oh...and for what it's worth, add "Caesar's Challenge" to the list of shows where there was no formal "goodbye".
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 10:21 AM\']CBS MG7x never got a goodbye, as the show was pulled by CBS with episodes still unaired. The unaired episodes didn't air until GSN aired them in SUmmer 2001, at least on a national level. The final aired CBS MG7x on 4/20/79 had a blank screen during the part where Johnny O. would announce the celebs that would be on the next five shows.
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Thank you, Zach, for paraphrasing what I just said to make it sound like an answer. It must be wonderful to love hearing yourself talk. My question was why these shows didn't get the chance to say goodbye?
My theory on PYL was that CBS decided to air reruns on the show during the summer of '86 with (at least) one month of shows in the can so they could figure out what to do with the slot. When they decided to cancel it and end programming the 4pm time period altogether, they decided to air the last month of shows, but the set was probably already struck by then, so no "official" last show.
Tyshaun
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 11:09 AM\']
Oh...and for what it's worth, add "Caesar's Challenge" to the list of shows where there was no formal "goodbye".
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MGHS hour, Classic Concentration, and All-Star Blitz are also among the network shows that didn't have a goodbye. SYndicated game shows virtually never do a goodbye, usually due to shows getting cancelled after the last episodes are taped. The Davidson and Bergeron HS(albeit Bergeron HS's on-air goodbye was edited from what people who were in attendance for the tapind saw) are the only syndicated shows I can recall getting a goodbye.
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My theory on PYL was that CBS decided to air reruns on the show during the summer of '86 with (at least) one month of shows in the can so they could figure out what to do with the slot. When they decided to cancel it and end programming the 4pm time period altogether, they decided to air the last month of shows, but the set was probably already struck by then, so no "official" last show.
You're probably right on the time slot theory, but it's surprising that they'd air reruns for a month and then revert to new shows. You'd figure they'd air all the new shows and THEN reruns while they figured out what to do. From what I heard, many of the stations that were still airing PYL dropped it by Labor Day 1986 anyway, so the final few new shows weren't seen in very many places.
From what I read, one likely reason that there was no goodbye is that Bill Carruthers wanted to bring the show back in syndication almost immediately. They had a proposal for a 26-week run, comprising 18 weeks of new shows and 8 weeks of reruns. They probably didn't know the status of that when they taped their final show, so that's why there was no goodbye.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 11:26 AM\']
From what I read, one likely reason that there was no goodbye is that Bill Carruthers wanted to bring the show back in syndication almost immediately. They had a proposal for a 26-week run, comprising 18 weeks of new shows and 8 weeks of reruns. They probably didn't know the status of that when they taped their final show, so that's why there was no goodbye.
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Recall that while the first-run syndication deal didn't materialize, Republic Pictures did syndicate a 130-episode rerun package, which aired in syndication in some cities including Pittsburgh and Harrisburg, PA, between December 1986-September 1987. The first batch of shows USA rerun came from the Republic Picutres package, including promos for upcoming PYL shows and new Whammy cartoons which were seen in place of the ticket or contestant plug.
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The Davidson and Bergeron HS(albeit Bergeron HS's on-air goodbye was edited from what people who were in attendance for the tapind saw) are the only syndicated shows I can recall getting a goodbye.
Didn't Bill Rafferty's "Card Sharks" have a goodbye? (I've never seen it, but online trade lists indicate that they knew it was the last show). In the "old days" when shows were bicycled, it's understandable why most shows wouldn't get a goodbye. Since shows have been fed via satellite for almost two decades now, it's much more common on syndicated shows.
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[quote name=\'tyshaun1\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 11:17 AM\']
Thank you, Zach, for paraphrasing what I just said to make it sound like an answer. It must be wonderful to love hearing yourself talk. My question was why these shows didn't get the chance to say goodbye?
My theory on PYL was that CBS decided to air reruns on the show during the summer of '86 with (at least) one month of shows in the can so they could figure out what to do with the slot. When they decided to cancel it and end programming the 4pm time period altogether, they decided to air the last month of shows, but the set was probably already struck by then, so no "official" last show.
Tyshaun
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In the case of MG7x on CBS, I think the answer to "Why the show didn't get a chance to say goodbye?" was the show was cancelled before they got a chance to show some three weeks of episodes taped for CBS. The goodbye wasn't for long, as the show did move to five-a-week syndication come September.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 11:28 AM\']Recall that while the first-run syndication deal didn't materialize, Republic Pictures did syndicate a 130-episode rerun package, which aired in syndication in some cities including Pittsburgh and Harrisburg, PA, between December 1986-September 1987. The first batch of shows USA rerun came from the Republic Picutres package, including promos for upcoming PYL shows and new Whammy cartoons which were seen in place of the ticket or contestant plug.
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And apparently the reason that took place was that Carruthers wanted to test the waters for the viability of PYL in syndication. And when PYL was on USA, he tried to revive the show at least twice, coming closest in 1995, when a stroke derailed all plans and led to him selling his company to Grundy/Pearson, who held the worldwide rights to the format.
Tyshaun
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 11:09 AM\']
There may not have been an official goodbye on the Rolf finale, but sharp-eyed viewers might've noticed a longer than usual credit roll (including camera operators, which NBC almost never credited on its daytime games). From 1984 (GO!) to 1990 (SCRABBLE), most NBC daytime game exits included extra credits.
What surprises me is that there are some shows where they didn't do a full credit roll on the final show - "Family Feud" is one that comes to mind - and I know I've seen others. Maybe they figured Richard's goodbye speech would take too much time and decided to run the credits on an earlier show that week(?)
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Maybe it was just something that wasn't done at ABC--since the credit crawl was on Chyron at that point, it could've been something that could easily have been done, compared with making a graphic strip for one use.
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I Finally got around to seeing WoFTHS last night. At first when I saw Susan Stafford being interviewed, I thought they were interviewing Christina Ferrare.
It was nice to see most of the key players of Wheel from over the years, though. And I for one am glad that they revamped the THS show graphics and montages.
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Didn't Bill Rafferty's "Card Sharks" have a goodbye? (I've never seen it, but online trade lists indicate that they knew it was the last show). In the "old days" when shows were bicycled, it's understandable why most shows wouldn't get a goodbye. Since shows have been fed via satellite for almost two decades now, it's much more common on syndicated shows.
Yeah, Bill said during the final segment that it was the last show of the season, and how there'd be a full credit roll to give viewers a chance to see all the people responsible for putting CS together (which was odd, since they just ran a short credit roll that day w/no production credits).
And interestingly enough, there was no official goodbye on Kennedy's TPiR just a season earlier, although the models did come out to the audience during the credits (it ended w/a double overbid, so Tom did the usual "audience greet" that occurs in that situation) and kiss/hug Tom, prolly their way of saying goodbye.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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On Rolf's last WOF, Vanna advised Rolf to "wear your sunscreen" which roughly translated means "Have a nice life."