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The Game Show Forum => Game Show Channels & Networks => Topic started by: melman1 on September 21, 2004, 01:21:52 AM

Title: Winner Take All
Post by: melman1 on September 21, 2004, 01:21:52 AM
Back in mid-August, I saved this info:
Monday, Sept. 20, Winner Take All---Cullen's launching pad as an emcee---moves into the 4 a.m. (EDT) slot for one week.  Barry Gray was the original host of the series, which patented contestant interviews along with game play. Cullen took over on the NBC version in 1952. Two Gray episodes will air, followed by three Cullen shows.

Friday, Sept. 24 (the early morning of Sept. 25), the final CBS edition of What's My Line? airs with the famous segment of John Daly impersonating himself as the last mystery guest at 4:30 a.m.

Saturday, Sept. 25 (early Sept. 26), Merv Griffin's Play Your Hunch replaces Line on the weekend schedule at 4:30. Beat the Clock stays at 4.


However, I don't remember where I got this.  I can't find it on these boards anywhere.  Even though I don't normally read it, I checked the site which would have you believe it's "America's daily stop for TV game show news, scores and information" and it's not there either - but of course postings regularly vanish from that site with no explanation offered.

So where did I see this?  And is any of it true - "Winner Take All" was not on last night (Mon. 9/20)...
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: ilb4ever2000 on September 21, 2004, 01:41:16 AM
Last night was Sunday, technically.

And the Barry Gray episodes unexpectedly aired last week, so I don't know what they're doing this week. Four Cullen episodes? One more Gray episode?
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: digiblader on September 21, 2004, 10:24:25 PM
I know I'll be getting flamed for this, but..

Despite Bill Cullen being on WTA, that show was the absolute worst show I have seen!

It was so dull and mostly interviews.. and the set was pretty weak.

Plus, I prefer faster paced shows similar to this like Hollywood Showdown, compared to this show.

We want gameplay, not interviews.. the interviews took too much time.

The prizes were OK though... for 1950 or so.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Don Howard on September 21, 2004, 10:27:04 PM
On the show presented a few early mornings ago, what was up with Barry Gray tossing lollipops into the audience? Or is he just a goofball?
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Tim L on September 21, 2004, 10:54:50 PM
Come on folks: Give Goodson-Todman a break here..This  (television)was relatively new for everybody involved.As I said before, Barry Gray was trying too hard to be funny..
Bill Cullen was the most entertaining thing about the newer (1952) version.  The fact that the show was a radio simulcast contributed to the presentation the way it came out.  I think Bill showed great potential even in these early shows, While Gray was out of his element here..I do think the Lady contestants were afraid  of the microphones. I had to turn the volume up on my TV to hear them half the time..


One more thing to consider:Daytime TV was in it's infancy in 1951-52.  The networks were not going to spend a lot of money doing daytime until it became more profitable..which is why you had the cheaper (in our eyes) looking sets..( I liked he crack Bill made about Borrowing $50 from the Lady Chiropractor's $250 savings bond prize..)

Tim Lones
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: DjohnsonCB on September 21, 2004, 11:32:40 PM
I'm with Tim L. on this.  I just watched the first of the Cullen WTAs and thought that-in spite of its early-'50s primitiveness-he and Don Pardo made it much better than the Barry Gray versions were.  One could tell that there were good things ahead for Cullen in the hosting department.  And this *was* G-T's first TV game, so its faults can be forgiven.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: ilb4ever2000 on September 22, 2004, 12:06:52 AM
It was interesting to see a show go for 15 minutes before going to break. When these originally aired, did they have commercials or was it only station identification?

And let me put in my vote for the Cullen version over Gray's.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Tim L on September 22, 2004, 12:19:27 AM
[quote name=\'ilb4ever2000\' date=\'Sep 21 2004, 11:06 PM\'] It was interesting to see a show go for 15 minutes before going to break. When these originally aired, did they have commercials or was it only station identification?

And let me put in my vote for the Cullen version over Gray's. [/quote]
 There may have been a brief commercial, but The possibility is that in some cities, WTA may have only been 15 minutes, with a local show filling out the rest of the time
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Matt Ottinger on September 22, 2004, 12:21:51 AM
[quote name=\'ilb4ever2000\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 12:06 AM\'] And let me put in my vote for the Cullen version over Gray's. [/quote]
 Don't even get me started!  

Ironic, I can pop my tapes in any time I want to see Winner Take All, but there's something special about setting the TiVo for it and knowing GSN, after all this time and after all our complaints, still finds the time for stuff like this now and then.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: ilb4ever2000 on September 22, 2004, 12:59:51 AM
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Sep 21 2004, 11:21 PM\'] Ironic, I can pop my tapes in any time I want to see Winner Take All, but there's something special about setting the TiVo for it and knowing GSN, after all this time and after all our complaints, still finds the time for stuff like this now and then. [/quote]
It's especially interesting to see GSN show this in an age of networks (GSN included) having orgasms (sorry for being so graphic) at the sight of younger and hipper demographics. Even TV Land won't show stuff this old...
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Tim L on September 22, 2004, 01:56:22 AM
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Sep 21 2004, 11:21 PM\'][quote name=\'ilb4ever2000\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 12:06 AM\'] And let me put in my vote for the Cullen version over Gray's. [/quote]
Don't even get me started!  

Ironic, I can pop my tapes in any time I want to see Winner Take All, but there's something special about setting the TiVo for it and knowing GSN, after all this time and after all our complaints, still finds the time for stuff like this now and then.[/quote]
Absolutely Matt..There is something special about seeing something like this..I love TV history as much as game shows themselves..Even in  the Barry Gray WTA episodes I liked the early 1950's radio influenced "feel" of the shows.  OT a bit, there are classic Country music shows Currently  being shown on RFD TV (mostly on Satellite) by the likes of Porter Wagoner and The Wilburn Brothers that were featured on many an independent station lineup in the 60's and 70's (mostly Saturdays).  Watching shows like this makes it seem like you're back in a time machine.  I feel the same about the classic game shows..I hope GSN never stops showing these at least on occasion..

Tim Lones
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: CaseyAbell on September 22, 2004, 08:15:59 AM
"All the complaints" might be having some effect. Well, it's really Nielsen Media Research that's producing the effect. As mentioned on the WBSM thread, the 10/11 schedule is almost all traditional game shows from sea to shining sea. So it's not too surprising that GSN is dusting off real old game shows on B&WO. The network definitely looks to have turned away from game operas and trashdateries and all those other pet peeves of the Prof.

Good Life Network, a miniscule niche cabler available in 174 households, regularly digs pretty deep into the fifties, especially for westerns. This can be a mixed blessing, though. I always remembered Maverick as one of the joys of my misspent youth. But when I saw a few eps on Good Life, they seemed unbelievably corny, predictable and dull. James Garner was great (he's never bad) but the rest of the show hadn't aged well at all.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Don Howard on September 22, 2004, 08:19:08 AM
[quote name=\'ilb4ever2000\' date=\'Sep 21 2004, 11:06 PM\'] And let me put in my vote for the Cullen version over Gray's. [/quote]
 But did Bill toss any lollipops into the crowd?
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Matt Ottinger on September 22, 2004, 01:11:09 PM
[quote name=\'Tim L\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 01:56 AM\'] OT a bit, there are classic Country music shows Currently  being shown on RFD TV (mostly on Satellite) by the likes of Porter Wagoner and The Wilburn Brothers that were featured on many an independent station lineup in the 60's and 70's (mostly Saturdays). [/quote]
 Staying with your OT comment, I grew up in East Tennessee in the 60s and 70s, so imagine my surprise and delight when, surfing Direct TV to see what sort of weird stuff I get that I didn't used to get, I stumbled across Porter Wagoner and company.  "Company", by the way, often included a young, but still quite top-heavy, Dolly Parton.

In general, I'm personally quite disappointed that there aren't more channels running these antiques.  I understand the logic behind growing systems like TV Land and, yes, even GSN getting away from the old and into the new, but it just seems like there could be more of the tiny guys who'd be willing to dig into vaults and show us oldies, even for camp value.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: melman1 on September 22, 2004, 01:32:47 PM
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Sep 21 2004, 09:21 PM\'] I can pop my tapes in any time I want to see Winner Take All [/quote]
 Implying that someone aired this before?  How many episodes survived?

It's interesting to see such a primitive attempt at dressing up a game show that apparently started on radio, for TV.  And also interesting to note that Cullen was still advising contestants to "hit your button as soon as you think you know the answer", pretty much word-for-word, almost 30 years later on Blockbusters.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Matt Ottinger on September 22, 2004, 03:45:14 PM
[quote name=\'melman1\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 01:32 PM\'] [quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Sep 21 2004, 09:21 PM\'] I can pop my tapes in any time I want to see Winner Take All [/quote]
Implying that someone aired this before?  How many episodes survived?
 [/quote]
 I keep forgetting we have relative newcomers.

Back in the early years of GSN, they filled their program day with, at one time or another, just about every imaginable thing they had in their vast vaults.  We curious fringe element would get a kick out of the more bizarre offerings, such as What's Going On? or the ever-popular Diamond Head Game.  None of these obscurities were on the air regularly for any real length of time, but they all popped up here and there.  

This dusting off of some of GSN's more musty "classics" (are we really going to get Number, Please?) is reminding us a lot of those giddy early years.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: melman1 on September 22, 2004, 09:30:13 PM
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 12:45 PM\'] I keep forgetting we have relative newcomers.
 [/quote]
 That doesn't have anything to do with it.  If I spent the next ten years here, I still would not develop an encyclopedic knowledge of shows like this...
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: RMF on September 22, 2004, 10:36:42 PM
To answer your question, GSN has aired (one or two?) Cullen episode(s) and a Gray episode in the past.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Matt Ottinger on September 22, 2004, 10:43:38 PM
[quote name=\'melman1\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 09:30 PM\'] [quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 12:45 PM\'] I keep forgetting we have relative newcomers.
 [/quote]
That doesn't have anything to do with it.  If I spent the next ten years here, I still would not develop an encyclopedic knowledge of shows like this... [/quote]
My goodness, somebody's got a thin skin.  I certainly meant no harm by recognizing you haven't been around since day one, but it doesn't take having memorized their entire schedule to know this show has aired before.  Now that you've seen it, I bet ten years from now, if the subject were to come up, you'll remember that GSN's aired it before.  And that's all I did.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: melman1 on September 23, 2004, 12:17:12 AM
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 07:43 PM\'] My goodness, somebody's got a thin skin. [/quote]
 No, not at all.

Quote
it doesn't take having memorized their entire schedule to know this show has aired

I don't know these old shows and won't remember them 6 months from now.  It'll go in one ear and out the other.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Ian Wallis on September 23, 2004, 08:49:26 AM
Quote
I understand the logic behind growing systems like TV Land and, yes, even GSN getting away from the old and into the new, but it just seems like there could be more of the tiny guys who'd be willing to dig into vaults and show us oldies, even for camp value.


THat's what I've been wondering about for years now.  It seems that most TV channels don't even acknowledge that anything existed before about 1980 (with the possible exception of a few shows on TVLand).

It's too bad...those of us who are too young to have experienced TV's "golden years" will likely never get a chance to see that stuff now.  From reading old TVGuides from the '50s, some of that stuff would be quite interesting even from a nostalgia point of view.  I guess there's just not enough money in it for someone to consider it, and we all know that money makes the world go round...


Quote
Back in the early years of GSN, they filled their program day with, at one time or another, just about every imaginable thing they had in their vast vaults. We curious fringe element would get a kick out of the more bizarre offerings, such as What's Going On? or the ever-popular Diamond Head Game. None of these obscurities were on the air regularly for any real length of time, but they all popped up here and there.

Most of us long for those days of GSN.  When they first went on the air in 1994, and up until about 1998, their schedule was ALL game shows and was a joy to watch.  They actually used their vault back then!!
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: CaseyAbell on September 23, 2004, 09:36:24 AM
Quote
It's too bad...those of us who are too young to have experienced TV's "golden years" will likely never get a chance to see that stuff now. From reading old TVGuides from the '50s, some of that stuff would be quite interesting even from a nostalgia point of view.
To be brutally honest, much of the fifties/sixties stuff I've revisited on Good Life TV looks more faded than a three-week-old bouquet. Maverick was a particularly nasty disappointment. Its corny spoof of westerns just seems like a weak joke now. Maybe the joke had more bite when westerns ruled the airwaves, but those days are long gone and have taken the point of Maverick's joke with them. If anything, the solemn Cheyenne comes across as a little more sincere, though the storylines move more slowly than Clint Walker's facial expressions.

77 Sunset Strip occasionally surprises me with offbeat humor, but the show gets tedious when it focuses on the detecting instead of the joking. Combat deservedly made Vic Morrow a star, but too much of the show looks like what it was, a cheap  imitation of war on a studio back lot. The color Honeymooners episodes are too loud and garish, even if Gleason and Carney still work well together.

The other real old stuff on the network - Bronco, Hawaiian Eye, Surfside Six, Gallant Men, the FBI - is acceptable at best, embarrassing at worst. The Golden Age of television may shine more brightly in memory than in actual phosphors.

Quote
When they first went on the air in 1994, and up until about 1998, their schedule was ALL game shows and was a joy to watch.
As I number-crunched on the WBSM thread, the programming hours on the 10/11 schedule are over ninety percent game shows. So you should find at least a little joy.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: zachhoran on September 23, 2004, 09:59:15 AM
[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Sep 23 2004, 08:36 AM\']
As I number-crunched on the WBSM thread, the programming hours on the 10/11 schedule are over ninety percent game shows. So you should find at least a little joy. [/quote]
 What Ian and some don't care much for about GSN these days as opposed to then is back in the 90s they were more of a niche network now, only usually available on satellite early on. At the time, they showed more than their share of more obscure, short-lived shows from the Goodson-Todman archives and later from the Sony-owned archives. The only obscure, fairly short-lived show from back in the day on the schedule now is Cullen Blockbusters.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Jimmy Owen on September 23, 2004, 11:27:33 AM
With the west coast feed in place and less of a need for same day repeats, I'm hoping for regular runs late at night of some of the '70's color classics with a more than a few episodes available.  The BTBs, PTBs and NYSIs.  The mid to late 70's TTTTs, etc.  I was lucky enough to have GSN during the Sunday Night in B&W days, so I have seen most of their monochrome inventory, though I am happy that they are still being shown.  Perhaps an hour a day could be devoted to the 70's retro shows, in the same manner as the B&W's.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: CaseyAbell on September 23, 2004, 11:31:46 AM
Oh boy, we've been around this block before. The trick is that what's "obscure" to game show freaks like us and what's "obscure" to the Great American Unwashed are two really different things.

If you randomly selected a hundred members of the G.A.W. and asked, "What is The Name's the Same?" you'd almost certainly get a hundred blank stares. If you substituted many other shows on GSN's schedule - Card Sharks, Hollywood Showdown, Press Your Luck, etc. - you'd probably do ninety-plus in the "duh?" department.

I'm afraid to speculate on how even sainted classics like Match Game and What's My Line might score. In fact, this sounds like a good question for Street Smarts...but almost nobody would know what Street Smarts is, either.

GSN may not seem niche-y enough to us freaks. But to the average couch potato, the network is ridiculously far out on the fringes of nichedom. Nothing  else in this country's TV universe comes close to GSN in its devotion to game shows for grownups. Even a real nicher like the Weather Channel has a similar competitor on my system's NOAA channel. But GSN truly stands alone.

Which is why I have to smile a little when posters say that GSN doesn't dig deep enough into its vaults. Maybe by the standards of game show afficianados, the network doesn't offer enough rarities...though the title show of this thread looks pretty rare to even moi.

But by the standards of the overwhelming majority of TV viewers, GSN programs dozens of hours of old rarities each week. Try finding Match Game or What's My Line anywhere else on TV for a little insight into how truly rare they are.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: tomobrien on September 23, 2004, 11:48:33 AM
[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Sep 23 2004, 07:36 AM\']
To be brutally honest, much of the fifties/sixties stuff I've revisited on Good Life TV looks more faded than a three-week-old bouquet. <snip>

The other real old stuff on the network - Bronco, Hawaiian Eye, Surfside Six, Gallant Men, the FBI - is acceptable at best, embarrassing at worst. The Golden Age of television may shine more brightly in memory than in actual phosphors.[/quote]
Part of your opinion comes from the caliber of what you're seeing.  Most of the shows you mention were done by Warner Bros. for ABC, which was still a struggling third back in the late 50s/early 60s...and most of those shows weren't considered all that good even back then.
If you want a better idea into the "Golden Age," pick up a real classic, such as the DVD release of the Studio One production of Reginald Rose's "The Defender."  Strong script, fine acting and an incredibly thought-provoking (and morally ambiguous) ending.  It still holds up against anything on TV today.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Jimmy Owen on September 23, 2004, 11:54:14 AM
Have to disagree on "Maverick," still a great show, with wonderful dialogue.  Jack Kelly's second best show (after $otc)
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: CaseyAbell on September 23, 2004, 11:59:36 AM
Quote
Part of your opinion comes from the caliber of what you're seeing. Most of the shows you mention were done by Warner Bros. for ABC, which was still a struggling third back in the late 50s/early 60s...and most of those shows weren't considered all that good even back then.
I have to disagree on several of Good Life's shows. Maverick, Combat, Cheyenne, Gallant Men all got at least decent reviews. Try this (http://\"http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/M/htmlM/maverick/maverick.htm\") for a typically respectful view of Maverick from a later critic. Even the self-deprecating goofiness of 77 Sunset Strip earned some critical kudos. Unfortunately, the shows don't stand up particularly well today, though of course each offers some watchable moments. And needless to say but I'll say it anyway, this is only my opinion and your mileage may vary.

In all honesty, what I mostly remember about The Defenders was its  preachiness and solemnity. So I'm a little afraid to have my memories confirmed.

I don't want to sound purely negative on fifties and sixties TV. Whenever I see the Dick Van Dyke show, I like what I see a lot. Mr. Van Dyke was an appealing and physically talented performer surrounded by a terrific supporting cast. But too often my warm and fuzzy memories of old television take a drubbing when I actually watch old television.

EDIT: These posts are starting to look like chapters from one of Tolstoy's lengthier efforts, but a few examples of what I'm talking about...

The color Honeymooners episodes hadn't been seen on TV for almost forty years, so I sampled a couple. I really really wanted them to be good, so my old memories of Ralph and Norton yelping at each other wouldn't suffer too much.

Well, they weren't a crushing disappointment, though everything looked too pretty in color and the musical numbers were distracting and often uninspired. The Gleason-Carney chemistry still clicked, but much of the material sounded tired and cliched.

Another example...a particular episode of Gallant Men. As I watched the show it suddenly dawned on me that it was leading to what I remembered as a vivid and extremely violent battle scene.

So I sat through the scene. And literally laughed out loud. I couldn't believe that even my naive boyhood self had accepted this as anything approaching real warfare. The scene consisted of a couple dozen cheap extras in German uniforms running around some, then falling down (often not too convincingly) and playing dead. If the Italian campaign in WW2 had remotely resembled this farce, the Allies would have taken Italy in twenty minutes.

So no, sometimes it's better to let sleeping memories lie.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Don Howard on September 23, 2004, 01:35:46 PM
Ah, yes, good ole Quinn Martin's The F...B...I, as Hank Sims would say before telling us the star was EFREM ZIMBALIST!!!! JUNIOR. Warm, happy memories.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Dbacksfan12 on September 24, 2004, 02:33:00 AM
Quote
In fact, this sounds like a good question for Street Smarts...but almost nobody would know what Street Smarts is, either.

It might surprise you about how many of the college-aged kids do in fact know about Street Smarts.  Some company came and performed a game show for us today..[I wasn't on campus], but Sara told me that it was just like "Street Smarts"--and that "Street Smarts" is the dumbest game show there is.

Quote
As I number-crunched on the WBSM thread, the programming hours on the 10/11 schedule are over ninety percent game shows.
I don't get why you have to stuff statistics down our throats every time someone makes a remote refrence to not liking the schedule.  So what if the schedule is 90% game shows? 95% of those game shows, a certain person might not give a damn about.  If someone doesn't like GSN schedule, that's their opinion, they don't need you reminding them what fraction of GSN's schedule is a "game show"; considering some people have a far-out definition of what a game show is.


Quote
But by the standards of the overwhelming majority of TV viewers, GSN programs dozens of hours of old rarities each week. Try finding Match Game or What's My Line anywhere else on TV for a little insight into how truly rare they are.
They won't be on any other station, because GSN owns the rights to air them.  Your point is null, void, and stupid.  It'd be like telling someone to find "Fear Factor" repeats on another station; when infact; FX is the only station that can rerun them (besids NBC).
Quote
So no, sometimes it's better to let sleeping memories lie.
On the other hand, you can wade through the new crap on NBC as well.  Your point?
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: dzinkin on September 24, 2004, 02:51:06 AM
[quote name=\'Dsmith\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 02:33 AM\']It'd be like telling someone to find "Fear Factor" repeats on another station; when infact; FX is the only station that can rerun them (besids NBC).[/quote]
Actually, Fear Factor reruns are now in syndication as well... so you might well find the reruns on other stations.  (WDCA in Washington, DC, to name just one; it's the UPN affil I get via satellite.)

Just a friendly reminder that when we slam others for missing what we think are basic facts, we sometimes miss some key facts ourselves.

(Two-word summary of above: chill, Mark.)
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: CaseyAbell on September 24, 2004, 08:07:22 AM
Quote
I don't get why you have to stuff statistics down our throats every time someone makes a remote refrence to not liking the schedule.
I mention one number (ninety percent) about the 10/11 schedule, and I'm stuffing statistics down somebody's throat? Wow, you are number-sensitive. As David says, chill.

I happen to like the 10/11 schedule. You may not like it, which is your right. But there's no need to use intemperate language to express your disagreement.

Quote
It might surprise you about how many of the college-aged kids do in fact know about Street Smarts.
I like Street Smarts, so it's nice that some college kids have heard about the show. But I stand by my thought experiment. Given the limited availability of the show at reasonable hours of the day and its very modest ratings, I doubt that more than ten people out of a randomly selected hundred would know about it.

Quote
They won't be on any other station, because GSN owns the rights to air them. Your point is null, void, and stupid.
The point is valid, relevant, and intelligent. How many outlets were running repeats of Daly What's My Line or Rayburn Match Game before GSN came along? How many would run them today besides GSN?

Game shows are in extreme disfavor now. Even a pretty decent performer like Pyramid got canned. The idea that many (or any) other outlets would carry dozens of hours of thirty and forty-year-old game shows is...well, check the adjectives you used in the quote.

You may not like the current GSN, which again is your right. But if GSN went belly-up tomorrow, the notion that other networks would suddenly start programming many hours of Gene and John (and Richard and Bill and Jim, etc.) is fantasy.

There is no other outlet in this country's entire TV universe that devotes anywhere near as much programming time to game shows for grownups - especially older shows - as GSN does. That's why GSN is, to use the famous word, a rarity.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Ian Wallis on September 24, 2004, 08:56:29 AM
I think part of the problem is that there are a growing number of old shows (in all genres) that just aren't seeing the light of day - anywhere.  Personally, I think the best TV shows of all time occurred in the '60s and '70s.  There have been a few good shows since then, but the cream of the crop occured in those two decades.  With a few exceptions, many of those shows are becoming harder and harder to find.  The way things are going, I think some of us are afraid they'll never be aired again.  Sure, you can buy many old series on DVD, but that gets expensive if you were to try to get everything that came out - and not every season from every show will be released.

I understand the realities of today's TV and don't expect things to change any time soon, but it's kind of disappointing that most of the early years of television are being relegated to the shelves.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Don Howard on September 24, 2004, 09:02:00 AM
NOW! The big question: Will we, as promised in program guides all over the place, get our look at an episode of Number Please early tomorrow morning?
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: CaseyAbell on September 24, 2004, 09:52:44 AM
Quote
I think part of the problem is that there are a growing number of old shows (in all genres) that just aren't seeing the light of day - anywhere. Personally, I think the best TV shows of all time occurred in the '60s and '70s.
This will probably get fixed as the literally thousands-of-channels universe dawns. Instead of the relatively few nostalgia channels now available, there could be many dozens. So really obscure (by anybody's definition) old shows may get their day in the sun.

Still, the current situation isn't completely grim for the oldies. I checked the upcoming seven-day schedules on the nostalgia specialists and some other outlets. Came up with a pretty impressive list of fifties/sixties/seventies shows...

TV Land: All in the Family, Sanford & Son, Three's Company, Brady Bunch, Happy Days, I Dream of Jeannie, Bewitched, Gunsmoke, Bonanza, Mister Ed, Green Acres, I Love Lucy, Dick Van Dyke Show, Munsters, Leave it to Beaver, Andy Griffith Show

Good Life: Combat, FBI, Honeymooners, Mayberry RFD, New Dick Van Dyke Show, 77 Sunset Strip, Hawaiian Eye, Surfside 6, Gallant Men, Maverick, Bronco, Cheyenne, Superman, Lawman, F Troop, Sugarfoot

GSN:What's My Line, Number Please, Match Game, Dawson Feud, Perry Card Sharks, Beat the Clock

SciFi: Twilight Zone, Star Trek, Kolchak, Battlestar Galactica, Outer Limits

Hallmark: Hogan's Heroes, Beverly Hillbillies, Waltons, Gilligan's Island, Perry Mason, Rawhide (some duplicates eliminated)

ESPN Classic: many games from as far back as 1954

This is hardly an exhaustive list, of course. I just browsed through the zap2it schedules for a few channels. Other cable networks and local channels also carry things like M*A*S*H, Hawaii Five-O, Lawrence Welk(!). Maybe these shows aren't quite obscure enough, though some are pretty out-of-the-way for me. But I was kinda surprised at just how much regularly scheduled 50s/60s/70s TV is available already on a number of outlets.

A lot of old television has just been lost. Things start getting spotty before the mid-seventies in many genres, especially for live and videotaped shows. Johnny Carson's first Tonight show sleeps with the fishes, for instance.

But you could easily spend every waking hour watching nothing but currently scheduled 50s/60s/70s shows. And as I said, the number of old shows getting a crack at the schedules will probably rise over the new few decades as the TV universe starts to look more like today's Internet.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Jimmy Owen on September 24, 2004, 10:43:44 AM
[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 08:02 AM\'] NOW! The big question: Will we, as promised in program guides all over the place, get our look at an episode of Number Please early tomorrow morning? [/quote]
 You may want to tape it, but be prepared for a letdown.  The game is not very exciting and the music throughout will drive you nuts.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: gamed121683 on September 24, 2004, 03:39:09 PM
Not sure if anyone here knows this but what were the airdates (month/year) of the Cullen "WTA"'s that have been on GSN the last couple of days?

Also, if I can comment (and this is coming from someome who is under 50 years of age) I've enjoyed watching WTA. So yeah the set was sparse (keep in mind were still in TV's infancy here) but this was really an entertaining quiz show. Watching Bill Cullen here you could tell that great things were ahead for him.  Any other takers?
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: clemon79 on September 24, 2004, 03:43:15 PM
[quote name=\'gamed121683\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 12:39 PM\'] but this was really an entertaining quiz show. Watching Bill Cullen here you could tell that great things were ahead for him.  Any other takers? [/quote]
 As television and Bill Cullen history, it was interesting.

As a game show, it was really quite lame. Mind, I say that with an understanding of the history of the medium and the knowledge that MOST EVERYTHING ON TV at the time was really quite lame. :)
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Don Howard on September 24, 2004, 04:38:12 PM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 02:43 PM\'] As a game show, it was really quite lame. Mind, I say that with an understanding of the history of the medium and the knowledge that MOST EVERYTHING ON TV at the time was really quite lame. :) [/quote]
 Oh, yeah, and I perfectly expected it to be. If I remember right, weren't there four firsts connected with that show? Bill Cullen's first, Goodson-Todman's first, the first with players competing against one another and the first with returning champions? I loved the grainy jumping picture and the crude credit roll with Don Pardo reading all the names as they scrolled by. In fact, it was better than I thought it would be. Thanks to GSN for retaining this hour for us.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: RMF on September 24, 2004, 06:08:44 PM
[quote name=\'gamed121683\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 02:39 PM\'] Not sure if anyone here knows this but what were the airdates (month/year) of the Cullen "WTA"'s that have been on GSN the last couple of days?
 [/quote]
 Assuming that they're the same ones at UCLA (and, if they aren't, then where on Earth did they come from?), the Cullen episodes come from 2/27/1952, 2/28/1952, and 3/5/1952.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: ilb4ever2000 on September 24, 2004, 06:12:26 PM
[quote name=\'RMF\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 05:08 PM\'] Assuming that they're the same ones at UCLA (and, if they aren't, then where on Earth did they come from?), the Cullen episodes come from 2/27/1952, 2/28/1952, and 3/5/1952. [/quote]
I'm assuming the first three episodes they showed correspond with what the UCLA archives have. But as for last night's, I guess we'll never know. Judging by the set changes, it was probably later in the run.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: RMF on September 24, 2004, 06:14:57 PM
[quote name=\'ilb4ever2000\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 05:12 PM\'] [quote name=\'RMF\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 05:08 PM\'] Assuming that they're the same ones at UCLA (and, if they aren't, then where on Earth did they come from?), the Cullen episodes come from 2/27/1952, 2/28/1952, and 3/5/1952. [/quote]
I'm assuming the first three episodes they showed correspond with what the UCLA archives have. But as for last night's, I guess we'll never know. [/quote]
 They've aired four Cullen episodes?
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: ilb4ever2000 on September 24, 2004, 06:16:06 PM
[quote name=\'RMF\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 05:14 PM\'] They've aired four Cullen episodes? [/quote]
 Yes, Monday-Thursday nights.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: RMF on September 24, 2004, 06:18:57 PM
[quote name=\'ilb4ever2000\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 05:16 PM\'] [quote name=\'RMF\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 05:14 PM\'] They've aired four Cullen episodes? [/quote]
Yes, Monday-Thursday nights. [/quote]
 In that case, then I haven't a clue, either.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: melman1 on September 24, 2004, 07:12:27 PM
[quote name=\'RMF\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 03:14 PM\'] They've aired four Cullen episodes? [/quote]
 Yes, which contradicts that "press release" snippet at the beginning of the thread (I guess no one recalls where that came from) which said "Two Gray episodes will air, followed by three Cullen shows."

It's a q-and-a game at its most absolutely simple.  Were there any other games on TV at that time, or was this the first try at it?  It's clearly an experiment to take a radio game and add as little to it as possible for television.  Cullen had a hard time remembering the contestants' names - the lady who escorted the contestants onstage handed Bill a packet of questions, but apparently not a card with the player's name on it?  I guess cue cards came later.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: zachhoran on September 24, 2004, 07:18:56 PM
[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 03:38 PM\'] Bill Cullen's first, Goodson-Todman's first, the first with players competing against one another and the first with returning champions [/quote]
 Also the first to have a buzzer lockout system, later perfected on shows like J!
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Matt Ottinger on September 24, 2004, 07:48:45 PM
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong -- because despite what melman thinks, I don't have an encyclopedic recall of these sorts of things -- but I'm thinking the episode last night, the fourth Cullen show, is one that GSN has never shown before.  I can't believe in my Cullen obsessiveness that I would have missed one, and I only had the first three.  I was expecting last night's to be a replay of one of the other ones.

At any rate, 2/27, 2/28, and 3/5 are the correct dates for the first three.  I've got a call in to someone at GSN to give me the skinny on the last one.

Quote
It's a q-and-a game at its most absolutely simple. Were there any other games on TV at that time, or was this the first try at it?

The 1948 original was certainly among the earliest game shows in history, though by the 1952 Cullen shows, the airwaves were full of them.  So as a q&a game, all its vaunted "firsts" were pretty much by default.  I have this image that for years, every other straightforward quiz game was dismissed as being too much like WTA.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: Jimmy Owen on September 24, 2004, 09:03:35 PM
Very enjoyable half-hour.  My favorite Cullen moment, at the halfway mark when Bill said something like,  "For those of you just joining us, let me get you up to speed as to what you have missed.  Nothing."
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: GS Warehouse on September 25, 2004, 02:09:39 PM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Sep 24 2004, 03:43 PM\'] As a game show, it was really quite lame. Mind, I say that with an understanding of the history of the medium and the knowledge that MOST EVERYTHING ON TV at the time was really quite lame. :) [/quote]
That's television for you.  Nothing has changed in 56 years.
Title: Winner Take All
Post by: uncamark on September 26, 2004, 03:59:11 AM
The versions of "WTA" that GSN aired were "sustaining"--meaning that they did not have a sponsor and that the network is airing the show to fill time, pray that the local stations don't pre-empt for local programming that has advertising and perhaps hope that they find a sponsor.  (Most likely, the only reason these kinescopes exist is that the network and/or G-T were using them to pitch the show to ad agencies--even if had been on the air for several years by that time.)  The break in the middle was to accommodate station breaks, which in those days came every 15 minutes (there were still a lot of 15-minute shows back then--the first half-hour soap, "As the World Turns," wouldn't start until 1957).

In the case of the Gray "WTA," looking at a schedule back then reveals that the show *started* at 15 minutes until the hour and *ended* at 15 minutes after the hour--as a half-hour show.  On certain days of the week, when its lead-in "Bride and Groom" (a daily wedding on live TV, with the lucky couple getting the gifts from the producers) ran an extra 15 minutes (no doubt because they had a sponsor for that time), "WTA" only ran for 15 minutes.  Things were different back then.