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The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: cmjb13 on July 10, 2003, 07:45:22 PM

Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: cmjb13 on July 10, 2003, 07:45:22 PM
What is the term used for the readouts on PYL and TPIR?
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: PeterMarshallFan on July 10, 2003, 07:48:55 PM
Eggcrate.

Some TPiR games use digital-type displays called vanes, and the IUFB displays are sports-type.
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: clemon79 on July 10, 2003, 10:08:24 PM
[quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Jul 10 2003, 04:48 PM\'] and the IUFB displays are sports-type. [/quote]
 While I agree that that is the accepted term, I've never been fond of it. Really, the difference between that and an eggcrate is largely in the positioning of the lamps. (Also, I suppose, in that an eggcrate has more lamps so that it can form some letters along with numbers.)
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: Brandon Brooks on July 10, 2003, 10:26:50 PM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jul 10 2003, 09:08 PM\'] [quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Jul 10 2003, 04:48 PM\'] and the IUFB displays are sports-type. [/quote]
While I agree that that is the accepted term, I've never been fond of it. Really, the difference between that and an eggcrate is largely in the positioning of the lamps. (Also, I suppose, in that an eggcrate has more lamps so that it can form some letters along with numbers.) [/quote]
 Well, not necessarily...

The lights are in a form or sorts as the bulbs are placed within this \"eight\" frame.  Eggcrates are just light bulbs that are turned on that make the numbers.

Does that make sense?

Brandon Brooks
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: clemon79 on July 10, 2003, 10:55:11 PM
[quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Jul 10 2003, 07:26 PM\'] The lights are in a form or sorts as the bulbs are placed within this "eight" frame.  Eggcrates are just light bulbs that are turned on that make the numbers.
Does that make sense?
 [/quote]
 Makes perfect sense. Seven segments, seven lights, diffuser on top of each one, like the old J! readouts before they went plasma. That's how the center-hanging board at KeyArena works.

But look at the One-Bid readouts. They're not seven-segment readouts in that sense. They appear to use two bulbs for each of the traditional seven segments, and then individual bulbs to connect the segments together where warranted. This is how the end-clocks are displayed at San Jose Arena.

I guess my point is that to call 'em \"sports-type\" is somewhat of a misnomer because sports facilities use all manner of readouts for displays.
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: chris319 on July 10, 2003, 11:07:48 PM
Nobody calls them \"sports type\". They're 7-segment lamp readouts, no fancy nickname.
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: Brandon Brooks on July 10, 2003, 11:12:30 PM
Quote
Makes perfect sense. Seven segments, seven lights, diffuser on top of each one, like the old J! readouts before they went plasma. That's how the center-hanging board at KeyArena works.
Yeah... vane displays.  I didn't know I was describing those, but in hindsight, I guess I was.

Quote
But look at the One-Bid readouts. They're not seven-segment readouts in that sense. They appear to use two bulbs for each of the traditional seven segments, and then individual bulbs to connect the segments together where warranted. This is how the end-clocks are displayed at San Jose Arena.
Now this is what I meant to explain.  They aren't digital vane displays; they are just bulbs that light up inside a frame.

Quote
I guess my point is that to call 'em \"sports-type\" is somewhat of a misnomer because sports facilities use all manner of readouts for displays.
I gotcha.

Brandon Brooks
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: clemon79 on July 11, 2003, 12:45:32 AM
[quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Jul 10 2003, 08:12 PM\'] Yeah... vane displays.  I didn't know I was describing those, but in hindsight, I guess I was.
 [/quote]
 Well, you weren't, tho, Chris has it right, that's a standard seven-segment display. To my way of thinking, a vane display has no lamps, instead, reflective pieces are moved in and out of view by electromagnetic impulse. (Think of the score readouts on 80's Pyramid, the clock above Summers' podium on Double Dare, the keypad on Check-Out on TPiR when they still had a Beauty entering in the numbers.) The toteboard we used for our CMN Telethon every year when I worked at the TV station was a vane.
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: cmjb13 on July 11, 2003, 06:30:06 AM
So would I be correct in saying that the one bid readouts and Check out display are vane and the TPIR showcase podium and PYL readouts (similar to Wintution) are 7-segment lamp readouts?
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: Brandon Brooks on July 11, 2003, 07:57:25 AM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jul 10 2003, 11:45 PM\'] [quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Jul 10 2003, 08:12 PM\'] Yeah... vane displays.  I didn't know I was describing those, but in hindsight, I guess I was.
 [/quote]
Well, you weren't, tho, Chris has it right, that's a standard seven-segment display. To my way of thinking, a vane display has no lamps, instead, reflective pieces are moved in and out of view by electromagnetic impulse. (Think of the score readouts on 80's Pyramid, the clock above Summers' podium on Double Dare, the keypad on Check-Out on TPiR when they still had a Beauty entering in the numbers.) The toteboard we used for our CMN Telethon every year when I worked at the TV station was a vane. [/quote]
 Well, there are some light vane displays, like one that used to be on HS and DD2003.  I was actually thinking of the \"flip\" type when I was writing the messages though.

Brandon Broks
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: Chelsea Thrasher on July 11, 2003, 09:13:49 AM
[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Jul 11 2003, 05:30 AM\'] So would I be correct in saying that the one bid readouts and Check out display are vane and the TPIR showcase podium and PYL readouts (similar to Wintution) are 7-segment lamp readouts? [/quote]
 Maybe I've had a bit too much to drink, but I thought that the displays on PYL were Eggcrate....or did I miss something here
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: cmjb13 on July 11, 2003, 09:32:49 AM
Maybe I should have made myself more clear.

I should say \"digit display\". Not the green colored background, but the style of numbers used on PYL and TPIR Showcase.
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: SRIV94 on July 11, 2003, 11:09:12 AM
[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Jul 11 2003, 08:32 AM\']Maybe I should have made myself more clear.

I should say \"digit display\". Not the green colored background, but the style of numbers used on PYL and TPIR Showcase.[/quote]
Actually, there are a several different \"Eggcrate\" variants.  One is the variant used on the Showcase, the Money Cards (70s/80s versions), the score readout on P+, etc., etc.  Another variant is the one used on (forgive me for saying this) FUN HOUSE, distinguishable by the 4 being closed rather than open (a la the Ferrenti display on FF)--although most of the rest of the numbers carry the same traits as the Showcase/Money Cards version (the 2 taking a circuitous route to the lower left hand corner instead of a straight diagonal, the 3 rounded at the top instead of a straight line and the 0 has a line through it to distinguish it from an O).

This web page has a little more information:

Display Field Guide (http://\"http://pages.cthome.net/ryan_bugaj/fieldguide.html\")

It's not the \"be all, end all\", as even within the displays mentioned there could be slight variations.

Doug
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: GS Warehouse on July 11, 2003, 11:36:08 AM
[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Jul 11 2003, 10:09 AM\'] Another variant is the one used on (forgive me for saying this) FUN HOUSE, distinguishable by the 4 being closed rather than open (a la the Ferrenti display on FF)--although most of the rest of the numbers carry the same traits as the Showcase/Money Cards version (the 2 taking a circuitous route to the lower left hand corner instead of a straight diagonal, the 3 rounded at the top instead of a straight line and the 0 has a line through it to distinguish it from an O). [/quote]
 What do you have against FH?  That was one of my faves as a teenager.  Anyway, Wipeout and Caesar's Challenge used this modification as well, albeit without the crossed zeros.

Two other notes: the DFG points out there were two different versions of the Eggcrate.  What's round in the one we're more accustomed to is square in the other.  I remember hearing that the two types emit light differently.  Also, the latter type (think the old Family Channel's interactive games) is more capable of letters, which we saw in the latter seasons of Debt.  The classic type could be adjusted to display just one letter per unit (like V or T).
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: PeterMarshallFan on July 11, 2003, 11:42:26 AM
[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' date=\'Jul 11 2003, 10:36 AM\'] What do you have against FH?
<snip> [/quote]
 There's a Usenet troll who

A) Stalks Megan Mullaly of \"Will and Grace\"

B) Makes idiotic posts about Fun House, esp. the cheerleaders (\"Anyone remember Jackie and Sammi Forrest the cheerleaders on Fun House\")

C) All of the above
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: SRIV94 on July 11, 2003, 11:44:21 AM
Quote
What do you have against FH? That was one of my faves as a teenager. Anyway, Wipeout and Caesar's Challenge used this modification as well, albeit without the crossed zeros.

Nothing against FH itself, just one particular poster (who shall remain nameless) who tends to obsess over FH and a certain actress from an NBC show that airs the same night as FRIENDS (I think that prety much clears it up for everybody).  :)

Doug
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: clemon79 on July 11, 2003, 11:46:10 AM
[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' date=\'Jul 11 2003, 08:36 AM\'] What's round in the one we're more accustomed to is square in the other.  I remember hearing that the two types emit light differently. [/quote]
 It says as much, and then makes a parenthetical comment that kinda discredits the statement, unfairly in my opinion, 'cuz it's dead right. Those ones that use square \"pixels\" are most definitely using LED's with light difusers in front of them (which is what produces the square pixel pattern.) The round ones are simply the illumination from the bulbs.
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: GS Warehouse on July 11, 2003, 04:19:49 PM
[shrugs] Blankin' short-term memory.  Yes, I remember that Megan stalker from rec.arts.tv.  One question, though: who would want to stalk her ?
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: PeterMarshallFan on July 11, 2003, 04:23:23 PM
[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' date=\'Jul 11 2003, 03:19 PM\'] [shrugs] Blankin' short-term memory.  Yes, I remember that Megan stalker from rec.arts.tv.  One question, though: who would want to stalk her ? [/quote]
 I just ran a quick check. Said stalker is here.
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: BrandonFG on July 11, 2003, 04:26:15 PM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jul 10 2003, 11:45 PM\']
Well, you weren't, tho, Chris has it right, that's a standard seven-segment display. To my way of thinking, a vane display has no lamps, instead, reflective pieces are moved in and out of view by electromagnetic impulse. (Think of the score readouts on 80's Pyramid, the clock above Summers' podium on Double Dare, the keypad on Check-Out on TPiR when they still had a Beauty entering in the numbers.)[/quote]
When you say electromagnetic, would you mean the type of display that you might see on the outside of a bank or something similar? What I'm thinking of is a display where you can actually see the segments \"slide\" back and forth as the numbers change.
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: PeterMarshallFan on July 11, 2003, 04:34:55 PM
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jul 11 2003, 03:26 PM\'] [quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jul 10 2003, 11:45 PM\']
Well, you weren't, tho, Chris has it right, that's a standard seven-segment display. To my way of thinking, a vane display has no lamps, instead, reflective pieces are moved in and out of view by electromagnetic impulse. (Think of the score readouts on 80's Pyramid, the clock above Summers' podium on Double Dare, the keypad on Check-Out on TPiR when they still had a Beauty entering in the numbers.)[/quote]
When you say electromagnetic, would you mean the type of display that you might see on the outside of a bank or something similar? What I'm thinking of is a display where you can actually see the segments "slide" back and forth as the numbers change. [/quote]
 Maybe you're thinking of solari boards. They were used on all the NY Pyramids, Big Showdown, Money Maze, etc.
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: BrandonFG on July 11, 2003, 04:43:23 PM
Uh uh, I know it's not solari....I've seen those plenty of times in Penn Station. What I'm thinking of looks like vane displays, but they're not, according to Chris L.'s description. Another example that I thought of would be some speed limit signs, at least more \"advanced\" versions.
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: Matt Ottinger on July 11, 2003, 05:00:17 PM
Quote
I just ran a quick check. Said stalker is here.
And therefore I suggest you all remember the rules about badmouthing fellow members.  Several of you know all too well that we allow any number of things outside of these happy little virtual walls, but around here we play nice.  Whether he's actually a weird troll playing a game or an unfortunate individual who really can't help himself, you can be sure that those sorts of messages won't stick around here long, so the best we can do is not waste more bandwidth talking about them.
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: chris319 on July 11, 2003, 06:44:29 PM
[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Jul 11 2003, 03:30 AM\']So would I be correct in saying that the one bid readouts and Check out display are vane and the TPIR showcase podium and PYL readouts (similar to Wintution) are 7-segment lamp readouts?[/quote]
No, a vane is a flat piece of plastic, metal, wood or whatever. In the case of a readout it pivots. Do not confuse it with a segment, as in 7-segment readout.

One Bid and Showcase Showdown: 7-segment lamp (in the case of One Bid, light bulbs shining through colored fabric).

Former Checkout Game and SOTC '80s: 7-segment mechanical vane.

Showcase podiums, Race Game clock: lamp matrix or \"eggcrate\". Early versions were numeric-only, later versions alphanumeric with various fonts (accounting for the differences in character appearance).

There is an abundance of inaccurate information on the web page someone linked to.
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: clemon79 on July 11, 2003, 07:00:40 PM
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jul 11 2003, 01:26 PM\'] When you say electromagnetic, would you mean the type of display that you might see on the outside of a bank or something similar? What I'm thinking of is a display where you can actually see the segments "slide" back and forth as the numbers change. [/quote]
 Yep, that's what I'm saying. In the case of a bank they are prolly moved by motor because speed isn't of the essence, but for game shows they need a little faster update, so they use electricity to get the individual pieces moving post haste.
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: SRIV94 on July 11, 2003, 10:06:40 PM
[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jul 11 2003, 05:44 PM\']There is an abundance of inaccurate information on the web page someone linked to.[/quote]
Mea culpa.  I wasn't aware of the abundance of inaccurate information on the site--it seemed like a pretty good resource at the time.

Mea double culpa about saying something sort of not nice about one member on this board, who again shall remain nameless.

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the TTD90 room.

Doug
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: Ryan Bugaj on July 12, 2003, 03:07:15 PM
And as the proprietor of the aforementioned linked site, if there is inaccurate information, then please let me know what's inaccurate and how I can correct it.

It's been a while since I've done anything with the DFG, this might be a good time to get it up to the quality we expect (and deserve).
Title: PYL and TPIR readouts
Post by: chris319 on July 12, 2003, 03:15:48 PM
[quote name=\'Ryan Bugaj\' date=\'Jul 12 2003, 12:07 PM\'] And as the proprietor of the aforementioned linked site, if there is inaccurate information, then please let me know what's inaccurate and how I can correct it.

It's been a while since I've done anything with the DFG, this might be a good time to get it up to the quality we expect (and deserve). [/quote]
 I already did that quite some time ago, I believe on ATGS. Try doing a Google Groups search and it might turn up.