The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => Game Show Channels & Networks => Topic started by: 1978-Jeopardy on March 27, 2004, 06:23:39 AM
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I'm just curious, where can I find GSN's ratings? I want to see if they have fallen or risen since the changeover.
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The free sources of cable ratings on the web are quite limited, compared to the broadcast networks. The best source I've found is MediaLifeMagazine's weekly roundup. The latest:
http://www.medialifemagazine.com/news2004/...5wednesday.html (http://\"http://www.medialifemagazine.com/news2004/mar04/mar22/3_wed/news5wednesday.html\")
As you can see, the first week of new shows didn't launch GSN into the top 25 ad-supported cablers. But I doubt anybody expected that. The old CableWorld site used to publish the prime time numbers for the top 40 basic cable networks, and GSN usually ranked about 35 or below. I put those numbers on this site in an old post that should still be in the search cache.
Odd note: CBS's annual decision to scrap its huge Thursday lineup in favor of low-rated hoops may have given GSN, along with many other cablers, a boost on March 18. So maybe even Kenny vs. Spenny benefitted a little.
From Variety and MultiChannel stories on big losers and gainers in cabledom, GSN scored an average 0.6 prime time universe rating for January and February, with about 300K households each month. Very good numbers by GSN standards, though the demos continue to skew old, female and lower-income. (You don't see all those ads for arthritis drugs, tampons, and credit counseling services by accident.)
Don't know if GSN will show up in those stories for March. I'll keep looking.
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Mar 29 2004, 07:16 AM\'] Odd note: CBS's annual decision to scrap its huge Thursday lineup in favor of low-rated hoops may have given GSN, along with many other cablers, a boost on March 18. So maybe even Kenny vs. Spenny benefitted a little.
[/quote]
Those "low-rated" hoops now are merely a means to an end. I'd say "settling for" a 7.2/13 on Thursday night is a small price to pay for the 15/20 they're gonna pull a week from tonight.
On top of that, for a network that relies so heavily on college sports to flesh out their sports package (remember, they run the College World Series as well in conjunction with ESPN, in addition to their extensive college football coverage), the goodwill that CBS's continued support of the Dance harbors from the NCAA is more than worth whatever ratings hit they might take.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Mar 29 2004, 10:25 AM\'] On top of that, for a network that relies so heavily on college sports to flesh out their sports package (remember, they run the College World Series as well in conjunction with ESPN, in addition to their extensive college football coverage), the goodwill that CBS's continued support of the Dance harbors from the NCAA is more than worth whatever ratings hit they might take. [/quote]
Actually, ESPN/ESPN2 now has exclusive TV rights to the College World Series (money as always is an issue, but another possible factor might be the decision to reformat the championship to a "best of three," effective with last year's tourney). Other than CBS' SEC football package, the Army-Navy game, the Sun Bowl and a few seasonal highlight packages (maybe a couple of gymnastics things as well), the bulk of CBS' NCAA involvement is their hoops investment. CBS doesn't really recoup much on LSU's split national title other than being the network that carried many of their regular season games, with ABC having carried LSU's Sugar Bowl game vs. Oklahoma (and ABC still has at least two more B[C]S seasons to go).
Doug
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It's a big ratings hit. CBS lost 13 million viewers from March 11 to March 18. Does that hit translate into increased viewership for the final? Hard to say. The final's ratings have declined over the years, even with prime time coverage of the early-round games. Last year the final hit bottom with a twelve, in a year that was admittedly scrambled by war coverage. The NCAA's own newsletter pointed to the problem:
1998 17.6
1999 17.2
2000 14.1
2001 15.6
2002 15.0
2003 12.6
This year the final may perk back up to a fifteen or so, which is certainly nothing to sneeze at in the new teevee universe. But would the rebound (sorry) have occurred anyway, without the two big hits CBS took on March 18 and March 25?
Many early-round playoff games for baseball, the NBA and the NHL have long since migrated to cable. Wouldn't be surprised to see the early Thursday-Friday rounds of NCAA hoops eventually wind up there, too.
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Mar 29 2004, 01:10 PM\'] It's a big ratings hit. CBS lost 13 million viewers from March 11 to March 18. Does that hit translate into increased viewership for the final? Hard to say. [/quote]
Compared to what? Last week? Season averages? The significant hit that CBS takes is on Thursday, and even if they were to be able to move those games to Spike or something (maybe not a horrible idea), I doubt they'd run first-run episodes of Survivor and CSI against their prized sports package.
Also, even though they have fewer viewers, the viewers they get are those beer-drinking, sportscar-wanting young men that advertisers crave.
Remember, the early rounds of the NCAA were once relegated to cable and have fairly recently moved TO the network. There's a lot more to this for CBS than the raw numbers.
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I'm using the actual prime time viewer numbers for March 11 (the last Thursday before hoops) and March 18 (the first Thursday of hoops). CBS went from 23.3 million viewers to 10.0 million. The second Thursday of hoops got 10.5 million. Mediaweek references:
http://www.mediaweek.com/mediaweek/columns...t_id=1000462434 (http://\"http://www.mediaweek.com/mediaweek/columns/column_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000462434\")
http://www.mediaweek.com/mediaweek/columns...t_id=1000468800 (http://\"http://www.mediaweek.com/mediaweek/columns/column_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000468800\")
http://www.mediaweek.com/mediaweek/columns...t_id=1000474222 (http://\"http://www.mediaweek.com/mediaweek/columns/column_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000474222\")
Scroll down to the "Final Thursday Nationals" on each reference. By the way, the final nationals for March 4 showed 21.2 million prime time viewers for CBS. No matter how you cut it, early-round hoops knock CBS's usual viewership numbers down by at least half on Thursday.
Are these losses worth it? I guess CBS thinks so, though there may be some in-house dissent. It is a big hit to take on what is usually a powerhouse night for the network. Does it help the numbers for the final? Maybe, but there's plenty of weekend hoops exposure on CBS, anyway.
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Mar 29 2004, 11:51 AM\'] Scroll down to the "Final Thursday Nationals" on each reference. By the way, the final nationals for March 4 showed 21.2 million prime time viewers for CBS. No matter how you cut it, early-round hoops knock CBS's usual viewership numbers down by at least half on Thursday.
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A little perspective, though--CBS hadn't had a mega Thursday night hit combo with SURVIVOR and CSI in a looooong time (for a time, NBC almost completely dominated Thursday night to the point where ABC and CBS couldn't really compete). If you go back to the years where CBS' NCAA run started (they started doing opening round games exclusively starting in March 1991), you may find that the viewer losses were minimal (and perhaps might have actually been gains).
Doug
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Possibly, but "that was then, this is now." Hey, it wouldn't bother me if CBS put hoops on every night. I wouldn't watch, anyway. But those two Thursdays do free up a lot of viewers for other outlets, as the MediaLifeMagazine article pointed out. So maybe Kenny vs. Spenny did pick up a few refugees from b-ball, which was the only point I wanted to make.
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Isn't the NCAA Basketball tournament popular on college campuses, which Nielsen is going to have a hard time figuring in to its ratings? I'd think those are exactly the sorts of people CBS would want to advertise to, if you believe the idea that only males below 35 matter.
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There must be something keeping those games on Thursday. Maybe it's the college audience, maybe it's the buildup for the final, maybe it's the contract with the NCAA, maybe it's sunspots. No skin off my nose, anyway. I rarely watch CBS and never watch hoops.
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[quote name=\'Fedya\' date=\'Mar 29 2004, 12:26 PM\'] Isn't the NCAA Basketball tournament popular on college campuses, which Nielsen is going to have a hard time figuring in to its ratings? I'd think those are exactly the sorts of people CBS would want to advertise to, if you believe the idea that only males below 35 matter. [/quote]
Most sports properties will tell you they are perpetually underrated because of the large viewing numbers in dorms and bars that Nielsen ignores. (Hmmm.... would that help TPIR with its college audience?)
If CBS didn't feel it could do well with the early rounds, they'd be happy to let ESPN or somebody carry them, just as it gave up the women's semifinals and finals and let ESPN take those. I'm willing to bet that in 64 different locations, the game with "their team" is the top-rated show that day or night. So CBS is happy.
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[quote name=\'1978-Jeopardy\' date=\'Mar 27 2004, 06:23 AM\'] I'm just curious, where can I find GSN's ratings? I want to see if they have fallen or risen since the changeover. [/quote]
According to Steve Beverly, World Series of Blackjack is doing well, but the other new shows, particularly Kenny vs. Spenny are not.
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[quote name=\'jbrocato\' date=\'Mar 31 2004, 07:46 AM\'] [quote name=\'1978-Jeopardy\' date=\'Mar 27 2004, 06:23 AM\'] I'm just curious, where can I find GSN's ratings? I want to see if they have fallen or risen since the changeover. [/quote]
According to Steve Beverly, World Series of Blackjack is doing well, but the other new shows, particularly Kenny vs. Spenny are not. [/quote]
I would think Kenny v. Spenny wouldn't do very well.
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The Prof doesn't give any numbers, which I can understand. I vaguely remember that he got in trouble with Nielsen once for spilling too many numbers on his site.
I'm happy to hear that the blackjack show is doing okay. I'm sure GSN is relieved, too, because they've committed to two more series of the show.
My guess is that KvS, Fake-a-Date and Spy TV will be gone by late spring, at least from prime time. Dog Eat Dog and Average Joe will take over instead.
EDIT: Without the actual numbers, it's hard to know if the Prof's admitted prejudices against reality and dating shows might be influencing his evaluation. I'm sure the current promos with Kenny and Spenny in drag aren't endearing their show to Mr. Steve, if he's seen any of them. But it's not hard to believe that the blackjack show is retaining more of GSN's core audience than any of the other new efforts.
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I posted a note on the GSN board about MediaLifeMagazine trashing the network for a falloff in its 18-34 audience in March, 2004 vs. March, 2003.
That's a tough comparison, because the Bug Bucks special pushed the March, 2003 numbers to a one-time high. Anyway, the note expanded into a long thread that's worth reading, if I say so myself. General consensus is the same as the Prof's: blackjack is doing okay and everything else is tanking.
Eventual schedule changes will tell the real story, of course.
On this thread's other subject...just noticed that the hoops final got a ten rating in the fast nationals, according to Zap2it. Not bad at all by current broadcast network standards, but it continues the long pattern of decline for the NCAA finals.
As always, fast nationals are subject to revision, especially for live events.
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General consensus is the same as the Prof's: blackjack is doing okay and everything else is tanking.
Eventual schedule changes will tell the real story, of course
With the shows GSN's reportedly bought, I think it will be a long while before you see any changes reflecting the ratings - good or bad. GSN will probably stick with this format and try it for quite a while before giving up on it. Even if the ratings are tanking, don't expect to see any changes for the forseeable future.
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GSN didn't wait long to downgrade the timeslots for the video games block and then to get rid of it altogether. If some shows are really stinking up the numbers, they could be gone pretty soon, especially with Dog Eat Dog and Average Joe supposed to debut in late spring.
By the way, the final national on the NCAA hoops championship was 11.0.
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Isn't the NCAA Basketball tournament popular on college campuses, which Nielsen is going to have a hard time figuring in to its ratings? I'd think those are exactly the sorts of people CBS would want to advertise to, if you believe the idea that only males below 35 matter.
Yeah, but the current Nielsen rating system only takes into consideration people (or to be more accurate, households) who have those Nielsen ratings boxes. In order to get a truly accurate figure, every single TV in the nation would have to be hooked up to Nielsen's database. But then again...having every single TV connected to a single database would reek of Big Brother (not the CBS Big Brother, but the "1984" Big Brother).
BTW...how do those Nielsen boxes work? Do they transmit via radio, or is it a specialized modem?