The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Matt Ottinger on May 01, 2023, 09:22:16 AM
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This isn't a show we talk about a lot here, which is one of the reasons I wanted to tackle it as my next big project.
I've been working on a Secret website in...well..."secret" for some time now, and I'm ready to unleash it on fans and newcomers alike. Since this is an educated audience, I won't bore you with details about the show. I WILL tell you that there are probably some things in here that you didn't know. There's a story on how close Steve Allen was to becoming a US Congressman. (Very close.) There's information about how runner Roger Bannister and sex symbol Jayne Mansfield were each supposed to have been on the series (separately) and why they weren't. I also have some contrarian takes I'll be posting soon about how the show was originally sold to Goodson-Todman, what really happened on the last episode, and even why that nice old man who witnessed the Lincoln assassination might have been a great big liar.
Adam Nedeff and Mike Burger (mmb5 here) were most helpful in getting this project to the finish line, and it's not even the finish line because I intend there to be frequent updates.
I hope this audience in particular finds it interesting. I am available for questions. And podcasts.
http://ivegotasecret.website
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Well, there goes any hope of being productive today. :)
By the way, on the banner, where's the third logo on the left from? (The one that looks to be written in Futura Display) I haven't seen it in any episodes.
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Well, there goes any hope of being productive today. :)
By the way, on the banner, where's the third logo on the left from? (The one that looks to be written in Futura Display) I haven't seen it in any episodes.
It was a bit of a cheat. It appeared on a single episode, a Christmas one from a few years in, and I think only in the closing credits.
What can I say? I needed six.
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I also have some contrarian takes I'll be posting soon about how the show was originally sold to Goodson-Todman, what really happened on the last episode, and even why that nice old man who witnessed the Lincoln assassination might have been a great big liar.
Well, this sounds like a rabbit hole I'm about to be sucked into. Appreciate your dedicated work in compiling — wait, WHAT?!
Cancel my meetings for today. Bye, bye productivity!
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The piece about Mr Seymour and his nonagenarian memory is already posted in the "History" section. The stuff about the show's origins has been written but not posted yet. And the stuff about the last episode has been researched (they absolutely had to know when they were taping it that it would be their last show) but not written yet.
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I've been working on a Secret website in...well..."secret" for some time now, and I'm ready to unleash it on fans and newcomers alike.
Does that mean we now have to to call you the Modern Man and/or Kilroy???
Actually Matt, I will be looking forward to checking it out. Thanks for the heads up.
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As a tiny bit of constructive criticism, for folks visiting on a phone (which in 2023 isn't an insignificant percentage of people), the banner at the top causes a huge horizontal scroll bar on every page. Thankfully the content fills just the screen area, so it's only a minor inconvenience.
Overall I'm excited to check out all of the content!
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As a tiny bit of constructive criticism, for folks visiting on a phone (which in 2023 isn't an insignificant percentage of people), the banner at the top causes a huge horizontal scroll bar on every page. Thankfully the content fills just the screen area, so it's only a minor inconvenience.
Thanks. I've been aware of the phone issues from the beginning. Theoretically, the software is supposed to automatically adjust for the user's device. In the real world, of course, some things "automatically adjust" better than others. I've been able to work around a great many things, but I'm afraid I don't have a really good answer yet for the banner. In a perfect world, there would be an option for a smaller alternate banner for smaller screens, and I'm sure there's some better software out there that does just that, but I'm happy enough with everything else this site does for me that I'm not going to go pursue one.
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I'm glad to finally see some detailed information on the four-week CBS 1976 run.
One thing I remember about it that wasn't mentioned; in Charles Nelson Reilly's "Yankee Doodle Dandy" choir, one of the names - the one that sounds like "Came To" ("Yankee Doodle came to London...") - was sick, so they replaced him with someone whose last name was Blank.
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I'm one of the people who had contributed to the Goodson-Todman's wiki for figuring out the episode guide for the 1972-73 version of the show, and let me tell you, seeing a 100% complete episode guide on your site put one of the biggest smiles on my face that I've had all week. :) Thank you so much Matt, and the people who helped you on that too!! I've been wanting to see that happen for so long as one of the aforementioned people on that page that you've mentioned who that version of the show is popular with. I am beyond excited for having a new work lunchtime destination to spend endless time on on my phone!! I've got some pals who love game shows and are "new" to getting into the genre but aren't really in the fandom (and are just starting to learn about game show history) and they love I've Got a Secret, they're gonna be over the moon over this.
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I'm one of the people who had contributed to the Goodson-Todman's wiki for figuring out the episode guide for the 1972-73 version of the show, and let me tell you, seeing a 100% complete episode guide on your site put one of the biggest smiles on my face that I've had all week. :) Thank you so much Matt, and the people who helped you on that too!! I've been wanting to see that happen for so long as one of the aforementioned people on that page that you've mentioned who that version of the show is popular with. I am beyond excited for having a new work lunchtime destination to spend endless time on on my phone!! I've got some pals who love game shows and are "new" to getting into the genre but aren't really in the fandom (and are just starting to learn about game show history) and they love I've Got a Secret, they're gonna be over the moon over this.
Thanks so much! A detailed examination of the 72-73 series is at the top of my list for updates.
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So they did 39 episodes for the '72-'73 season. Pat, Henry, Anita and Richard were the regulars but they mixed it up a little. Thanks for updating.
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Wonderful! An early gem I found is Faye Emerson's sideline project. At first I thought the guy behind these did it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SFV/comments/ifkzoj/mickey_rooneys_potato_fantasy/
Congratulations, Matt.
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Thanks!! This is, IMO, easily the most perfect panel show (again, my opinion) because it’s so versatile and fun.
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Wonderful! An early gem I found is Faye Emerson's sideline project.
That was the first, "Wow, I didn't know that!" thing I found in my research, and it became a bit of a running joke.
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Addenda:
Gil Fates was also involved with To Tell the Truth.
Ira produced the 1972 version. In addition to Match Game he produced Play Your Hunch which typically got a 50 share on NBC daytime.
I believe Stu Phelps directed the 1972 version (working from memory).
Edd Kalehoff/Score Productions did the music for the 1972 version.
Does Ted Cooper appear on your radar screen? He would have been involved with the show even if he is not credited and another scenic designer was used; in fact Ted would have hired any outside scenic designers.
I remember Roger Peterson fondly, a gentleman through and through.
In the '80s, though he was on the credits and payroll of several shows, except for Card Sharks he rarely came to any tapings of those shows (Password Plus, Family Feud, Mindreaders). He usually wrote the emcee language, was around during startup and then went back to New Jersey.
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I haven't explored the entire site yet, but do you have Allan Sherman's memo to Goodson & Todman begging for a secretary? It's very funny.
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I believe Stu Phelps directed the 1972 version (working from memory).
Correct, as did Marc Breslow.
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I haven't explored the entire site yet, but do you have Allan Sherman's memo to Goodson & Todman begging for a secretary? It's very funny.
I have it (it's in his autobiography) but I haven't introduced it on the site. In general, my focus is on what happened in front of the camera.
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I haven't explored the entire site yet, but do you have Allan Sherman's memo to Goodson & Todman begging for a secretary? It's very funny.
"Hello Mark-uh, hello Toddah..."
(ducks)
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Great site! It just makes me want to see all the episodes. Any way to partner with anyone official, like Fremantle, or Buzzr, or an archive, and upload master copies of episodes to the site, including ones that have never before been aired?
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Great site! It just makes me want to see all the episodes. Any way to partner with anyone official, like Fremantle, or Buzzr, or an archive, and upload master copies of episodes to the site, including ones that have never before been aired?
Thanks! There are definitely hopes for the site, and high among them is accessing the episodes that have never been rerun. I'm convinced I have ever episode that HAS, whether on GSN or Buzzr, plus there's another fifty or so with full writeups on every secret based on long-ago GSN notes. I think I'm close to acquiring more of those, but even then that's not the same as watching and sharing the episodes. Stay tuned!
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Matt--
You've got mail (through your gmail account)... and if my attachment didn't make it through, please let me know.
And by the way-- great site!
- Kevin
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It's interesting how many "special" episodes have ended up missing. It's almost as if someone at the time decided to set those episodes aside, maybe so that they wouldn't end up lost, and by so doing, those episodes ended up lost.
A Google search for Garry Moore I've Got A Secret turns up a NY Times article from February 21, 1964 saying Garry announced yesterday that he will be leaving IGAS and his CBS daytime radio show in May, all while still getting paid next season in excess of $100,000 from his long term CBS contract. He's going to get paid to do nothing. I guess he really wanted to stick it to them for canceling his variety show, he was that offended by it? I don't think he ever mentioned he was leaving IGAS on air on IGAS, until the September 1964 transition show, which is a missing episode?
The NY Times article says IGAS was owned by Moore and CBS. Is that right? CBS gave Garry an ownership stake in it?
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It's interesting how many "special" episodes have ended up missing. It's almost as if someone at the time decided to set those episodes aside, maybe so that they wouldn't end up lost, and by so doing, those episodes ended up lost.
I have a slightly different theory that certain special episodes were probably meaningful to certain important people, so they just took them. It couldn't have possibly occurred to anybody that this archive was going to have value decades later, and therefore it had to be maintained perfectly. I strongly believe, for example, that Gil Fates took the 1960 election special out of the collection when he was writing his What's My Line? book, and then never bothered to return it.
I don't think he ever mentioned he was leaving IGAS on air on IGAS, until the September 1964 transition show, which is a missing episode?
Yes, it was widely reported that Garry was sore about his show being cancelled and was going to walk away from Secret, but he never mentioned it on air until the missing transition episode. Aside from the very first episode, that's the one I'd most love to locate some day. Maybe Garry took it?
The NY Times article says IGAS was owned by Moore and CBS. Is that right? CBS gave Garry an ownership stake in it?
Goodson-Todman sold the show to "Telecast Enterprises," a partnership between CBS and Garry that seems to have had no other purpose than this. While most reports at least suggest it was an equal partnership, others say Garry had a minority stake.
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What exactly is the lineage of IGAS ownership? Did G-T reacquire it from Telecast Enterprises either for the 1976 four-show run or for the syndicated run made in Hollywood? Did Fremantle ultimately wind up owning it?
IIRC Gil said in his book that Beatrice Foods was involved at some point.
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What exactly is the lineage of IGAS ownership? Did G-T reacquire it from Telecast Enterprises either for the 1976 four-show run or for the syndicated run made in Hollywood? Did Fremantle
ultimately wind up owning it?
I can't tell you under whose auspices Goodson produced the 1972 and 1976 versions. "Telecast Enterprises" does not show up in any search of any historical records I can find after 1967.
In 1992, The Carsey-Werner Company announced that they had acquired the rights to the format, and were going to launch a version in the fall of 1993. That version didn't happen, but they made the 1980 version on Oxygen, and they probably had a hand in (or at least signed off on) the 2006 GSN version. The press release for the 2023 pilot says that it's "based on the format owned by Werner Entertainment, Inc." (Carsey and Werner have not been producing partners for a long time.) Fremantle, as best as I can tell, does not have any ownership stake in the format. They just have possession of the old episodes.
IIRC Gil said in his book that Beatrice Foods was involved at some point.
Gil is specifically referring to What's My Line? in a brief passage where he says, "In 1969, in a manner too involved to detail here, the rights to the program passed to Garry Moore's Redwing Productions. In 1971, Redwing sold all of its assets to a conglomerate. If after reading the following pages anybody gets a hankering to revive What's My Line? on television, he will have to negotiate for the rights with Beatrice Foods, Inc., the people who also bring you Stiffel lamps, Samsonite luggage, and Dannon yogurt."
So take that as you will. This passage might just be about WML? or perhaps Garry's company acquired rights to both shows in that complicated deal.
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I found the credits of a 1972 show. It lists "Goodson-Todman Telecasts, Inc." on the copyright notice, with Firestone as the syndicator. Celebrity was Paul Lynde. Directed by Marc Breslow.
This is what prompted my question about G-T reacquiring IGAS.
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I found the credits of a 1972 show. It lists "Goodson-Todman Telecasts, Inc." on the copyright notice
Interesting. That's a very specific word to use, and while it might be a coincidence and just a common word to use to describe a television show, it might also suggest some sort of mutual agreement with "Telecast Enterprises" without that entity giving up the rights.
I haven't done nearly the deep dive into the 72 version as I have the original, though I'm beginning to. If I find anything cool, I'll be sure to share it.
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That's a very specific word to use, and while it might be a coincidence and just a common word to use to describe a television show, it might also suggest some sort of mutual agreement with "Telecast Enterprises" without that entity giving up the rights.
That's an interesting notion.
I looked at the crawl of a Narz Concentration and the copyright notice says "G-T Programs, Inc." even though Jim Victory and I think NBC each had a piece of it, so the copyright notice isn't necessarily definitive.
In the case of IGAS, CBS and Garry Moore may still have had a piece of the show in 1972. That would also explain the four-show run on CBS in 1976. Perhaps CBS financed the pilot show of that run?
The two living people who MIGHT know something about it are Bobby Sherman and Jonathan Goodson. Gil Fates, Garry Moore, Jerry Chester and even Bud Austin are no longer available.
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I looked at the crawl of a Narz Concentration and the copyright notice says "G-T Programs, Inc." even though Jim Victory and I think NBC each had a piece of it, so the copyright notice isn't necessarily definitive.
Could that have just been one of the shell companies G-T would use, like Price Productions?
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It's interesting how many "special" episodes have ended up missing. It's almost as if someone at the time decided to set those episodes aside, maybe so that they wouldn't end up lost, and by so doing, those episodes ended up lost.
I have a slightly different theory that certain special episodes were probably meaningful to certain important people, so they just took them. It couldn't have possibly occurred to anybody that this archive was going to have value decades later, and therefore it had to be maintained perfectly. I strongly believe, for example, that Gil Fates took the 1960 election special out of the collection when he was writing his What's My Line? book, and then never bothered to return it.
I don't think he ever mentioned he was leaving IGAS on air on IGAS, until the September 1964 transition show, which is a missing episode?
Yes, it was widely reported that Garry was sore about his show being cancelled and was going to walk away from Secret, but he never mentioned it on air until the missing transition episode. Aside from the very first episode, that's the one I'd most love to locate some day. Maybe Garry took it?
The NY Times article says IGAS was owned by Moore and CBS. Is that right? CBS gave Garry an ownership stake in it?
Goodson-Todman sold the show to "Telecast Enterprises," a partnership between CBS and Garry that seems to have had no other purpose than this. While most reports at least suggest it was an equal partnership, others say Garry had a minority stake.
Was Goodson-Todman still involved right up until the end? Both Steve Allen and Bill Cullen talk to Mark Goodson on the last episode in 1967...or was he just hanging around to say goodbye to everyone?
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Was Goodson-Todman still involved right up until the end? Both Steve Allen and Bill Cullen talk to Mark Goodson on the last episode in 1967...or was he just hanging around to say goodbye to everyone?
Goodson-Todman was absolutely involved right up until the end. Telecast Enterprises "owned" the show, and paid G-T a fee to produce it. I don't claim to know the details, nor why this arrangement was in place for Secret and Line but not To Tell the Truth, for example. But Goodson-Todman always produced the show.
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The two living people who MIGHT know something about it are Bobby Sherman and Jonathan Goodson. Gil Fates, Garry Moore, Jerry Chester and even Bud Austin are no longer available.
The other person I'd like to talk to is Tom Werner, who claims to have acquired the rights in 1992. Acquired them from whom? The yogurt people?
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Is Jonathan Goodson on the list of people to be interviewed for the Strong Museum project? Has he been approached and refused to be interviewed?
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It's interesting how many "special" episodes have ended up missing. It's almost as if someone at the time decided to set those episodes aside, maybe so that they wouldn't end up lost, and by so doing, those episodes ended up lost.
I have a slightly different theory that certain special episodes were probably meaningful to certain important people, so they just took them. It couldn't have possibly occurred to anybody that this archive was going to have value decades later, and therefore it had to be maintained perfectly. I strongly believe, for example, that Gil Fates took the 1960 election special out of the collection when he was writing his What's My Line? book, and then never bothered to return it.
That's interesting! Do you think that makes it more likely that these special episodes still exist and could be recoverable? Maybe descendants still have them lying around some where?
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That's interesting! Do you think that makes it more likely that these special episodes still exist and could be recoverable? Maybe descendants still have them lying around some where?
I absolutely think that. A few years back, a couple dozen of us acquired an unsold Goodson-Todman pilot from a dealer who told me she picked it up at an estate sale in New England, and I am 100% convinced it was the estate of one of those old-school G-T staffers who were around the company forever.
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I notice that, especially in the later years, at the start of the show, whenever Bill is introduced, he is always mumbling to himself or trying to talk to others on the panel. He also does that during the intro on some other shows, like He Said, She Said; Tattletales; To Tell the Truth. Was there a reason for it? Or was it a joke? Or was it just a bad habit he got into?
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I notice that, especially in the later years, at the start of the show, whenever Bill is introduced, he is always mumbling to himself or trying to talk to others on the panel. He also does that during the intro on some other shows, like He Said, She Said; Tattletales; To Tell the Truth. Was there a reason for it? Or was it a joke? Or was it just a bad habit he got into?
You know how your local news opens with a shot of your anchorman looking at a stack of papers and then looking into the camera, as if he was in the middle of something when he was introduced? I'm thinking Bill's habit here was the same idea. It looks more natural than just blankly smiling for 10 seconds while waiting for somebody to say his name.
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I think Bill's mutterings are directed toward the audience; he's just saying them sotto voce. It's not like he's communicating with the demons in his head.
Has anyone else noticed that on IGAS Garry always seems to have a lit cigarette in his hand? Always. He's very adroit at changing hands when he needs to. I imagine he took puffs when he was not on camera.
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Has anyone else noticed that on IGAS Garry always seems to have a lit cigarette in his hand? Always. He's very adroit at changing hands when he needs to. I imagine he took puffs when he was not on camera.
He looks to have been pretty badly hooked. During the 1970s "Nothing But the Truth" documentary about the Moore-era TTTT, Garry's puffing away during the breaks in taping.
- Kevin
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From someone who attended TTTT tapings in the 70s. Moore definitely smoked during the commercial breaks. This eventually caught up with him and forced his retirement.
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From someone who attended TTTT tapings in the 70s. Moore definitely smoked during the commercial breaks. This eventually caught up with him and forced his retirement.
That's how he got a "no-no" in his throat.
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He looks to have been pretty badly hooked. During the 1970s "Nothing But the Truth" documentary about the Moore-era TTTT, Garry's puffing away during the breaks in taping.
This couldn't have been uncommon in the 1970s. There used to be a Match Game website with nothing but screen grabs of the celebs caught smoking on camera.
When I interned at CNN in 1983, anchorman Bernard Shaw would smoke when he wasn't on camera. He was very good, however, about making sure the cigarette was stubbed out before he went back on (during Prime News, he anchored solo from Washington with two anchors from Atlanta). Shaw's death last year at 82 was due to pneumonia, and apparently not related to smoking.
A few years later, I remember seeing an episode of World News Tonight with a technical malfunction during a taped report; when they returned to Peter Jennings unexpectedly, after a few seconds, smoke was visibly wafting into the shot. Jennings moved to stub out the cigarette, which most viewers probably didn't notice.
The good news is the percentage of smokers has crept steadily downward since it was determined smoking tobacco causes lung cancer; the percentage of adults who smoke today is a bit less than 1/3 of those who did in the mid-1960s.
https://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco-trends-brief/overall-tobacco-trends (https://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco-trends-brief/overall-tobacco-trends)
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The late Fred Wostbrock died of lung cancer but didn't smoke AFAIK.
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The late Fred Wostbrock died of lung cancer but didn't smoke AFAIK.
Cigars.