The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: colonial on August 15, 2022, 09:14:23 PM
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Per the Inside Jeopardy podcast ...
-- There will be 21 players competing in this fall's tournament
-- There will be six first-round matchups with the winners advancing into the semifinals
-- The top three winners of this past season -- Amy Schneider, Matt Amodio and Mattea Roach -- receive automatic byes into the semifinals. No wildcards this year -- you must win to stay in.
-- The finals will follow the GOAT Tournament format -- first to three victories wins the $250K. Finals can go anywhere from 3-7 games.
JD
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The format has been the same since 1985. Why change it now? Just to make sure the three biggest winners make it to the semifinals?
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The format has been the same since 1985. Why change it now? Just to make sure the three biggest winners make it to the semifinals?
I’d think partially at least- plus you’ve got so many qualifiers plus the 2nd Chance winners.
I actually like the first to 3 wins final. A lot of times with a 2-day final you’ll either have everyone play it safe on day one, or someone gets a big lead or a big deficit depending on the category draw. At least with first to 3 that balances out.
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The format has been the same since 1985. Why change it now? Just to make sure the three biggest winners make it to the semifinals?
This is different and fair - you win, you're in. The strength of this year's group would make for good quarterfinals, it might be vastly different with the semis given the three automatic byes.
And the first to three format, as GOAT proved, treats each game as self-contained, and maybe you'll get the full seven games given how the matchups go.
It might be the first major change in 36ish years, but it's one I can live with (Reddit, maybe not).
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My friends noticed that the traditional TOC format doesn't prioritize actually playing Jeopardy! the way it's played the other 40-odd weeks of the year. In the quarters, if you have a strong total after Double Jeopardy!, you're far better off making a safe/zero wager and moving forward as a Wild Card than you are trying to win outright. Once the semis are over, now you're focused on a comparatively long game in which you can similarly hedge in the first half to set up how the totals square up in the second part of the 2-game final.
That said, having the quarterfinals be strictly one-and-done does increase the luck that's part of Final Jeopardy! You could be the best player in your match statistically, and have won 10+ games in the regular season...but if the last clue in your quarterfinal happens to be in one of your blind spots, you could be beat by an underdog. The Wild Card format perhaps afforded a chance for players with a better overall knowledge base to make it through, Final be damned.
It's far too early to say whether I like Classic Coke or New Coke better here. I LOVED the format of the GOAT tournament, and it seeing it repurposed here in some (half hour) form already has me interested. Perhaps that should replace the 2-game final in the old format? Time will tell.
-Jason
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Is this tournament going to be in syndication or primetime? I suspect the latter, but doing it in syndication fixes the one fault the GOAT tournament had (and I suppose this is only a fault for those tasked with doing the programming around it): the uncertainty of how many games the tournament will last.
If you do it in the normal run, you can simply revert to normal play once it's over, like 80s Pyramid did.
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Is this tournament going to be in syndication or primetime?
It will air in syndication
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Like Buzzy, I am a fan of the phrase "2 day points affair", but I love the GOAT format much better. The question was posed upthread about why change this now when it's not broken...well, these things have to serve the now, too. It would have sucked to have lost any one of these champions in this unusual season or two of Jeopardy! due to the size of the tournament...and I think it's fair to reflect the next level accomplishments of Matt, Mattea, and Amy by giving them a pass to the semifinals.
I know superfans of anything hate change, but the changes Davies has introduced have been really additive to what makes the show great and I don't think this new format is any different. I look forward to seeing what else he does.
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Curious how a variable-length TOC would work logistically with bringing in regular contestants for games after the TOC, since they won't know far in advance the number of shows they need to tape for that week.
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Curious how a variable-length TOC would work logistically with bringing in regular contestants for games after the TOC, since they won't know far in advance the number of shows they need to tape for that week.
People have been talking about that on Reddit, too. My guess is that they could conceivably air the practice game that they'll have among Matt, Amy, and Mattea if they plan for it for one of the days. They could also reair episodes of Celebrity Jeopardy! from primetime to fill out the week if their contract with ABC would allow for it. Or they do a short taping with regular play to return without a studio audience so they reduce the number of folks who could spoil the length of the tournament finals.
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I'm not awake enough yet to have an opinion on which format I like better. However...
That said, having the quarterfinals be strictly one-and-done does increase the luck that's part of Final Jeopardy! You could be the best player in your match statistically, and have won 10+ games in the regular season...but if the last clue in your quarterfinal happens to be in one of your blind spots, you could be beat by an underdog.
To be fair, that's how everyday Jeopardy! works, too. Who knows how many great champions we never saw because in their first or second game, they got hit with a Final Jeopardy! in their blind spot.
Curious how a variable-length TOC would work logistically with bringing in regular contestants for games after the TOC, since they won't know far in advance the number of shows they need to tape for that week.
They know they'll need to tape five shows -- they just need to have extra stacks of Tournament of Champions boards and everyday boards on hand because they don't know how many of each type of board they'll be playing. Bring in a bunch of extra contestants who are local to Southern California in case the finals do go all seven games.
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Given this tournament structure, I would like to see two-game semifinals as was done in the UToC.
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Given this tournament structure, I would like to see two-game semifinals as was done in the UToC.
What do you think a two day total point affair brings you that a GOAT style “first to three” ending wouldn’t get you? Like I think the idea that each game might not matter sucks. And that has happened a number of times in the TOC where a close win in game one win is negated by a blowout in game two.
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Given this tournament structure, I would like to see two-game semifinals as was done in the UToC.
What do you think a two day total point affair brings you that a GOAT style “first to three” ending wouldn’t get you? Like I think the idea that each game might not matter sucks. And that has happened a number of times in the TOC where a close win in game one win is negated by a blowout in game two.
I quite like the GOAT-style final. My earlier post wished for a series of two-game SEMI-finals, specifically to allow the nine best players to shine a bit longer. I hate to see one of the "bottom 18" lose in the semi, and I'd also hate to see one of the "top 3" lose as quickly. It just seems that if we are drawing out the finale to seven days, why not stretch the semis too? The downside with the current scheduling is the potential for a game 7 finale on Thanksgiving Day (and also out of the sweeps period), though the odds are minimal for it.
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Curious how a variable-length TOC would work logistically with bringing in regular contestants for games after the TOC, since they won't know far in advance the number of shows they need to tape for that week.
Isn't that only really an issue if you have games you explicitly want aired on a certain day? I seem to recall some teen or college tournaments starting on a Wednesday to have the finals be Monday/Tuesday, and the UToC had the final M/T/W.
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Since there's usually 6 weeks of "event programming" and some of those events are now being put on ABC, I wonder if making the TOC longer is trying to fill the gap to some extent. I also wonder, since 12 games are guaranteed, if they'll tape in 6-a-day blocks instead of 5.
I think the GOAT part may be a little too much, but I don't mind the rest of the setup. 2-game semis would be too much bloat, and I think a 3-game final to balance it out is a non-starter. I feel a little bad for the other double digit champs, but being that there's a 7? game gap between 3rd and 4th, I get why they might be lumped in with The Rest.
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Curious how a variable-length TOC would work logistically with bringing in regular contestants for games after the TOC, since they won't know far in advance the number of shows they need to tape for that week.
Sale of the Century (at least with and before the 88 tournament) aired in sequence and didn't impact taping schedule. After the tournament, you air your next 5, in order, and if there's a reduced or extended taping schedule, adjust accordingly.
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Is this tournament going to be in syndication or primetime? I suspect the latter, but doing it in syndication fixes the one fault the GOAT tournament had (and I suppose this is only a fault for those tasked with doing the programming around it): the uncertainty of how many games the tournament will last.
If you do it in the normal run, you can simply revert to normal play once it's over, like 80s Pyramid did.
I think the affiliates would revolt if they moved the tourney to primetime. Though who knows, maybe in the future they consider making the ToC a primetime event.
Curious how a variable-length TOC would work logistically with bringing in regular contestants for games after the TOC, since they won't know far in advance the number of shows they need to tape for that week.
I think they could film around the ToC. In 2018, when Alex needed emergency surgery and tapings needed to be canceled, I thought they later filmed a tournament that had its taping postponed and just plopped it in where it was needed. I forget the tournament, either teen or college. Obviously, that tournament was structed with a known end point, but I can see them just filming the ToC on standalone tape days. If they happen to have a short taping day, they just have a short taping day.
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Curious how a variable-length TOC would work logistically with bringing in regular contestants for games after the TOC, since they won't know far in advance the number of shows they need to tape for that week.
If it were me, I'd plan the ToC as a standalone taping and plan on six episodes for the next few taping days with a couple SoCal-based contestants for each who can come (or not come) on short notice, then do as many of them as needed to get back to the regular cycle.
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80's Pyramid wasn't the only show that ended a tournament mid-episode:
The Joker's Wild also resumed regular gameplay after the Tournament of Champions ended at least one year. IIRC, they even pulled down the TOC signage during the commercial.
Of course, J! will not end a TOC mid-episode, but there should be no reason why they can't resume regular civilian play if the tournament ends sooner than they expected. They could always shoot a drop-in/recap congratulating the TOC winner from the episode before if the regular episodes were already in the can.
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I’d think partially at least- plus you’ve got so many qualifiers plus the 2nd Chance winners.
I actually like the first to 3 wins final. A lot of times with a 2-day final you’ll either have everyone play it safe on day one, or someone gets a big lead or a big deficit depending on the category draw. At least with first to 3 that balances out.
I thin’ there’s something for everyone to not like. I think the beauty of the TOC at ten shows is there aren’t any free passes, and part of the fun is seeing if the powerhouses will wilt under the pressure or shine through.
If they are going to keep the race to three (which I’m fine with) make each win worth $25,000, or if you win you keep your bank. Either way.
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I thought the two week tournament was a damn near perfect concept, so with the College Championship and now the ToC upending the apple cart, I'm a little shaky on this.
Is this tournament going to be in syndication or primetime? I suspect the latter, but doing it in syndication fixes the one fault the GOAT tournament had (and I suppose this is only a fault for those tasked with doing the programming around it): the uncertainty of how many games the tournament will last.
If you do it in the normal run, you can simply revert to normal play once it's over, like 80s Pyramid did.
I think the affiliates would revolt if they moved the tourney to primetime. Though who knows, maybe in the future they consider making the ToC a primetime event.
Well, Davies brought up the idea of possibly doing the ToC Finals in primetime live, but I would guess you'd need to at least give the affiliates the quarters and semis.
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As an aside, Celebrity Jeopardy! is going to be a full 13-week tournament:
https://www.tvinsider.com/1056959/celebrity-jeopardy-abc-game-changes/
MD is saying things about it being "a somewhat new format”- don't know if that means they'll follow the GOAT game format with two full games in the hour with total points winning or something different than that- 13 weeks is perfect if they have 27 celebs in all (9 first round games, 3 semi-finals, 1 final)..
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An interesting bit of news here- The 11/8 episode is not scheduled to be a normal ToC ep, because of the many pre-emptions likely due to it being Election Night. What’s being rumored is a aired practice match between Amy Schneider, Matt Amodio, and Mattea Roach (since all three get a bye into the semi-finals they want to give them a chance to get back into the swing of buzzer timing and such before they play)…
https://www.tvinsider.com/1059414/jeopardy-election-day-episode-matt-amodio-amy-schneider-mattea-roach/
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An interesting bit of news here- The 11/8 episode is not scheduled to be a normal ToC ep, because of the many pre-emptions likely due to it being Election Night. What’s being rumored is a aired practice match between Amy Schneider, Matt Amodio, and Mattea Roach (since all three get a bye into the semi-finals they want to give them a chance to get back into the swing of buzzer timing and such before they play)…
https://www.tvinsider.com/1059414/jeopardy-election-day-episode-matt-amodio-amy-schneider-mattea-roach/
It's a smart programming strategy but I'd actually love to see that match, considering my precincts will just be wrapping up at 7:30. Hopefully the J! Youtube page puts it online at some point.
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FYI- Celeb J! will have 1 game per ep in an hour long format: Triple Jeopardy has been added (6 categories, 3 DDs)-
https://www.google.com/amp/s/parade.com/.amp/tv/celebrity-jeopardy-triple-jeopardy-exclusive
(And clues go 100-500 in J, 200-1000 in DJ, 300-1500 in TJ so the total values add up the same, though with the extra DDs- will be interesting to see how the strategies will change)