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The Game Show Forum => GSN® and BUZZR TV® => Topic started by: splinkynip on April 21, 2022, 08:30:41 PM

Title: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: splinkynip on April 21, 2022, 08:30:41 PM
Is it just me or did Buzzr change its aspect ratio yesterday? Shows are taking up less space on my tv screen suddenly. Black bars used to be just on the left and right sides, now they are on the top and bottom as well.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: gridlockjoe on April 21, 2022, 10:30:25 PM
No change here. Watching over the air.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: Sodboy13 on April 21, 2022, 11:26:41 PM
Could be how your local affiliate broadcasts the feed, or how your television provider processes it. Here in Chicago, the channel gets stretched out to 16:9. They actually fixed it for a couple of weeks, but then they unfixed it.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: PYLdude on April 21, 2022, 11:46:23 PM
My provider does the stretch too.

Iíve never seen a station shown in the form splinkynip described. Not that I donít believe him but Iím just trying to imagine what thatíd look like.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: splinkynip on April 22, 2022, 12:13:48 AM
It's even odder than I thought before. Whether watching live or on DVR, previously the black bars were only on the sides (would that be 4:3?). Now, watching live, the image fills up the whole screen (16:9 I assume) but watching the same show back on DVR it is a smaller image with bars on all 4 sides.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: MSTieScott on April 22, 2022, 02:15:46 AM
I think it's an affiliate thing. Several months ago, Buzzr started showing up on my screen too narrow -- like the affiliate had the properly proportioned feed centered in a 16:9 frame with black bars on the sides, but then squeezed that 16:9 image to fit in a 4:3 frame. That persisted for about a week, but no one else mentioned it, so I assume it was local to me.

Recently (in the past few months or so), I've noticed more artifacts when the video has a lot of elements changing at once, like the bandwidth has gotten lower. Supermarket Sweep has always had its rough patches on that front, but now it's sometimes happening even on relatively static shows like Classic Concentration. I compared my antenna feed to the feed directly on Buzzr's website -- the artifacting isn't happening on buzzrtv.com, so it must be my affiliate.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: Allstar87 on April 24, 2022, 08:42:12 AM
I think it's an affiliate thing. Several months ago, Buzzr started showing up on my screen too narrow -- like the affiliate had the properly proportioned feed centered in a 16:9 frame with black bars on the sides, but then squeezed that 16:9 image to fit in a 4:3 frame. That persisted for about a week, but no one else mentioned it, so I assume it was local to me.

That's exactly how my affiliate's displayed the picture since July of last year. Definitely annoying.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: PYLdude on April 24, 2022, 10:24:24 PM
The one thing that always seems to happen on my TV feed is that the audio is out of sync. If you listen to it sometimes, it seems like one side is a second or two ahead so you can hear what's about to happen before it does.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: Bryce L. on April 24, 2022, 11:07:18 PM
Strange... for me, the only time I ever hear "early" audio is on 1960s Password, and I'd assume that's more a case of print-through on the master tapes than an actual BUZZR fault.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: Sodboy13 on April 25, 2022, 09:28:51 AM
Okay, here's one for the "is it the network or is it the affiliate" crowd. Turned on Buzzr this morning and both the video and audio are skipping/stalling on frames multiple times per second. It's like watching RealPlayer on dialup.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: SuperMatch93 on April 25, 2022, 09:42:55 AM
Strange... for me, the only time I ever hear "early" audio is on 1960s Password, and I'd assume that's more a case of print-through on the master tapes than an actual BUZZR fault.

Do you ever hear it on Dawson Feud? That's driven me nuts for years (especially during Fast Money) and I always figured it was some kind of transfer issue with the masters.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: Bryce L. on April 25, 2022, 10:06:34 AM
Strange... for me, the only time I ever hear "early" audio is on 1960s Password, and I'd assume that's more a case of print-through on the master tapes than an actual BUZZR fault.

Do you ever hear it on Dawson Feud? That's driven me nuts for years (especially during Fast Money) and I always figured it was some kind of transfer issue with the masters.
Haven't watched in ages (because of the timeslot, I generally only watch when "fresh" shows are on), so couldn't honestly answer... but I'll have to listen for it next time I do.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: SRIV94 on April 25, 2022, 03:05:18 PM
Strange... for me, the only time I ever hear "early" audio is on 1960s Password, and I'd assume that's more a case of print-through on the master tapes than an actual BUZZR fault.

Do you ever hear it on Dawson Feud? That's driven me nuts for years (especially during Fast Money) and I always figured it was some kind of transfer issue with the masters.

I hear it a lot on P+ (especially the 1979 eps), but that's going back to the GSN days, so I would assume you're right about the print-through on the master tapes.

I have heard it a few times on WHEW! too (notably when a block on a long shot is about to happen).
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: chris319 on June 13, 2022, 12:04:15 AM
I watch Buzzr on KCOP channel 13.2 via Spectrum cable. Since I've retired from Rupert's evil empire I can't check the Buzzr downlink. Since some time in late 2021 the aspect ratio on Buzzr has been messed up. The logo in the lower right is supposed to be perfectly circular. It used to be perfect but since late last year it's been too narrow.

I have my TV set so that a show produced in 4:3 is displayed in 4:3 rather than being artificially stretched to 16:9. I want to see FF just as Paul Alter saw it. Buzzr is weird because so many shows are 4:3 but many commercials are produced in 16:9. I have a feeling somebody violated the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule and tried to "fix" something that wasn't broke and messed it up in the process. The challenge is to find out where in the chain the picture is being distorted; whether it's leaving the Buzzr plant that way or whether the problem is occurring on the receiving end.

If you are watching a TERRESTRIAL, OVER-THE-AIR BROADCAST feed of Buzzer, take note of the Buzzr logo in the lower right of the screen. If it looks perfectly circular to you then that casts suspicion on the KCOP.2 broadcast. If it looks narrow, it could be leaving Buzzr that way. In either case, please report here the logo's appearance along with the station's call letters, subchannel number and the station's city of license.

N.B. If you are watching a satellite or Internet feed of Buzzr, that is not a terrestrial over-the-air broadcast feed. If you are watching an OTA feed via cable, that counts as an OTA feed.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: chris319 on June 13, 2022, 12:12:49 AM
Here in Chicago, the channel gets stretched out to 16:9. They actually fixed it for a couple of weeks, but then they unfixed it.

Quote
My provider does the stretch too.

Are your TV receivers set up to artificially stretch 4:3 to 16:9? A 4:3 show from, say, the '70s should have black pillars on the left and right
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: chris319 on June 13, 2022, 12:28:11 AM
Recently (in the past few months or so), I've noticed more artifacts when the video has a lot of elements changing at once, like the bandwidth has gotten lower. Supermarket Sweep has always had its rough patches on that front, but now it's sometimes happening even on relatively static shows like Classic Concentration. I compared my antenna feed to the feed directly on Buzzr's website -- the artifacting isn't happening on buzzrtv.com, so it must be my affiliate.

I can tell you these subordinate programming services are very highly compressed.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: snowpeck on June 13, 2022, 02:13:29 PM
If you are watching a TERRESTRIAL, OVER-THE-AIR BROADCAST feed of Buzzer, take note of the Buzzr logo in the lower right of the screen. If it looks perfectly circular to you then that casts suspicion on the KCOP.2 broadcast. If it looks narrow, it could be leaving Buzzr that way. In either case, please report here the logo's appearance along with the station's call letters, subchannel number and the station's city of license.
I normally watch the stream, but we get it here on WAGA 5.3 OTA and on cable as well. Just checked that feed and the aspect ratio looks perfectly fine to me. Round Buzzr logo and appropriately sized black bars on the side of the screen.

Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: chris319 on June 13, 2022, 08:08:55 PM
If you are watching a TERRESTRIAL, OVER-THE-AIR BROADCAST feed of Buzzer, take note of the Buzzr logo in the lower right of the screen. If it looks perfectly circular to you then that casts suspicion on the KCOP.2 broadcast. If it looks narrow, it could be leaving Buzzr that way. In either case, please report here the logo's appearance along with the station's call letters, subchannel number and the station's city of license.
I normally watch the stream, but we get it here on WAGA 5.3 OTA and on cable as well. Just checked that feed and the aspect ratio looks perfectly fine to me. Round Buzzr logo and appropriately sized black bars on the side of the screen.

How is your receiver set up? Some receivers elongate 4:3 content to 16:9 so everything would appear normal if that is the case.

I watched some '70s TTTT last night on Buzzr OTA. My TV set is configured to NOT elongate 4:3 content to 16:9. The Buzzr logo was egg shaped, compressed horizontally, with excessively wide horizontal blanking on the left and right. The commercials were reduced to a 16:9 postage stamp in the center of the screen with excessive horizontal and vertical blanking.

These problems did not exist about a year ago.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: snowpeck on June 13, 2022, 08:24:11 PM
If you are watching a TERRESTRIAL, OVER-THE-AIR BROADCAST feed of Buzzer, take note of the Buzzr logo in the lower right of the screen. If it looks perfectly circular to you then that casts suspicion on the KCOP.2 broadcast. If it looks narrow, it could be leaving Buzzr that way. In either case, please report here the logo's appearance along with the station's call letters, subchannel number and the station's city of license.
I normally watch the stream, but we get it here on WAGA 5.3 OTA and on cable as well. Just checked that feed and the aspect ratio looks perfectly fine to me. Round Buzzr logo and appropriately sized black bars on the side of the screen.

How is your receiver set up? Some receivers elongate 4:3 content to 16:9 so everything would appear normal if that is the case.

I watched some '70s TTTT last night on Buzzr OTA. My TV set is configured to NOT elongate 4:3 content to 16:9. The Buzzr logo was egg shaped, compressed horizontally, with excessively wide horizontal blanking on the left and right. The commercials were reduced to a 16:9 postage stamp in the center of the screen with excessive horizontal and vertical blanking.

These problems did not exist about a year ago.
The small TV I have in my home office doesn't have any settings to adjust aspect ratio (just a useless zoom option) so I was seeing it as it was being provided.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: Pyramid80 on June 13, 2022, 09:00:38 PM
I watch Buzzr on KCOP channel 13.2 via Spectrum cable. Since I've retired from Rupert's evil empire I can't check the Buzzr downlink. Since some time in late 2021 the aspect ratio on Buzzr has been messed up. The logo in the lower right is supposed to be perfectly circular. It used to be perfect but since late last year it's been too narrow.

I have my TV set so that a show produced in 4:3 is displayed in 4:3 rather than being artificially stretched to 16:9. I want to see FF just as Paul Alter saw it. Buzzr is weird because so many shows are 4:3 but many commercials are produced in 16:9. I have a feeling somebody violated the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule and tried to "fix" something that wasn't broke and messed it up in the process. The challenge is to find out where in the chain the picture is being distorted; whether it's leaving the Buzzr plant that way or whether the problem is occurring on the receiving end.

If you are watching a TERRESTRIAL, OVER-THE-AIR BROADCAST feed of Buzzer, take note of the Buzzr logo in the lower right of the screen. If it looks perfectly circular to you then that casts suspicion on the KCOP.2 broadcast. If it looks narrow, it could be leaving Buzzr that way. In either case, please report here the logo's appearance along with the station's call letters, subchannel number and the station's city of license.

N.B. If you are watching a satellite or Internet feed of Buzzr, that is not a terrestrial over-the-air broadcast feed. If you are watching an OTA feed via cable, that counts as an OTA feed.
I sent you a PM, but passing this along, in case you didnít see it.

I get Buzzr via xfinity cable through one of my local TV stations.  My TV is set to the 16:9 ratio, but when I go to the Buzzr channel, I see everything in the correct aspect ratio with black bars in the left and right.  No one is stretched out or anything and the Buzzr logo is perfectly round.  I have seen Buzzr itself actually goof on the ratio with Match Game Hollywood Squares being stretched to fit my entire screen without any black bars on the sides, but I knew that was Buzzrís fault since the preceding and following shows were back to the correct aspect ratio.  That was a Buzzr goof though.  I hope this helps.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: chris319 on June 13, 2022, 10:01:48 PM
Quote
My TV is set to the 16:9 ratio

That's why everything looks "normal" to you. MG and MG/HS were produced in 4:3. That your receiver is elongating the picture masks the problem Buzzr is having. Which station and digital subchannel are you watching and what market is it?

Quote
The small TV I have in my home office doesn't have any settings to adjust aspect ratio (just a useless zoom option) so I was seeing it as it was being provided.

One possibility is that the receiver is elongating the picture in spite of the fact that there are no user settings to control it.

At my former station we had a pair of "professional" Sony OLED monitors which cost $3,000 apiece. These monitors did that exact thing: they made all of the incoming video 16:9 to fill up the screen and we had no control over it. This bit us in the ass many times because if a field camera was set to 4:3, we had no way of knowing it because these monitors artificially made the picture 16:9 and thus disguised the fact that the picture was coming in at 4:3, no matter how loudly the directors and T.D.'s screamed and hollered.

Eventually these two $3,000 monitors stopped working and were removed from service. Rather than try to fix them in house or send them back to Sony, poof! The monitors disappeared in a puff of smoke. Nobody knew where they were or what happened to them. $6,000 worth of capital equipment vanished into thin air. They did not have asset tags and there was probably no record of their serial numbers.

What makes this problem difficult to trace is that monitors can disguise these maladies. I suspect there is a problem at Buzzr judging from the fact that their commercials look different compared to programming.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: Pyramid80 on June 14, 2022, 12:24:46 PM
Quote
My TV is set to the 16:9 ratio

That's why everything looks "normal" to you. MG and MG/HS were produced in 4:3. That your receiver is elongating the picture masks the problem Buzzr is having. Which station and digital subchannel are you watching and what market is it?

Quote
The small TV I have in my home office doesn't have any settings to adjust aspect ratio (just a useless zoom option) so I was seeing it as it was being provided.

One possibility is that the receiver is elongating the picture in spite of the fact that there are no user settings to control it.

At my former station we had a pair of "professional" Sony OLED monitors which cost $3,000 apiece. These monitors did that exact thing: they made all of the incoming video 16:9 to fill up the screen and we had no control over it. This bit us in the ass many times because if a field camera was set to 4:3, we had no way of knowing it because these monitors artificially made the picture 16:9 and thus disguised the fact that the picture was coming in at 4:3, no matter how loudly the directors and T.D.'s screamed and hollered.

Eventually these two $3,000 monitors stopped working and were removed from service. Rather than try to fix them in house or send them back to Sony, poof! The monitors disappeared in a puff of smoke. Nobody knew where they were or what happened to them. $6,000 worth of capital equipment vanished into thin air. They did not have asset tags and there was probably no record of their serial numbers.

What makes this problem difficult to trace is that monitors can disguise these maladies. I suspect there is a problem at Buzzr judging from the fact that their commercials look different compared to programming.

I get Buzzr via KMSP-TV4 in the Twin Cities.  I donít know what you mean by substation, but Iím guessing you mean itís 9.4?  The main station is KMSP or channel 9.

All the Buzzr commercials look like 16:9 formats put into the 4:3 ratio, so basically all the commercials have proper aspects but with black bars on the side, making them look extra small.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: chris319 on June 14, 2022, 01:16:28 PM
KMSP channel 9 is divided into 4 subchannels, with Buzzr on channel 9.4.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KMSP-TV#KMSP-TV/WFTC_subchannels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KMSP-TV#KMSP-TV/WFTC_subchannels)

How do shows like Dawson FF, Rayburn MG and Trebek CC look to you? Do you see black pillars on the sides only? Pillars are to be expected as the result of showing 4:3 content on a 16:9 display. I see pillars but they are excessively wide and the Buzzr logo is out of round. This changed some time last year. It used to be that the pillars were not as wide and the logo was perfectly round.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: Pyramid80 on June 19, 2022, 12:14:31 PM
KMSP channel 9 is divided into 4 subchannels, with Buzzr on channel 9.4.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KMSP-TV#KMSP-TV/WFTC_subchannels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KMSP-TV#KMSP-TV/WFTC_subchannels)

How do shows like Dawson FF, Rayburn MG and Trebek CC look to you? Do you see black pillars on the sides only? Pillars are to be expected as the result of showing 4:3 content on a 16:9 display. I see pillars but they are excessively wide and the Buzzr logo is out of round. This changed some time last year. It used to be that the pillars were not as wide and the logo was perfectly round.

I see the black side pillars on all the shows Buzzr airs.  Theyíre always the same size, and everything is proportioned correctly.  I sometimes see Ďpostage stampsí with black pillars on the top and bottom as well during commercials shot in the 16:9 format and then swished into the 4:3 perspective for Buzzr, but thatís the only time I see postage stamps.  I never see postage stamps during the actual program.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: chris319 on June 24, 2022, 06:32:46 PM

I see the black side pillars on all the shows Buzzr airs.  Theyíre always the same size, and everything is proportioned correctly.  I sometimes see Ďpostage stampsí with black pillars on the top and bottom as well during commercials shot in the 16:9 format and then swished into the 4:3 perspective for Buzzr, but thatís the only time I see postage stamps.  I never see postage stamps during the actual program.

How does the lower-right logo look to you?

I can't think of a show running on Buzzr that was produced in 16:9, so the majority of shows can be expected to have pillars.
Title: Re: Buzzr aspect ratio
Post by: Pyramid80 on June 25, 2022, 09:13:56 AM

I see the black side pillars on all the shows Buzzr airs.  Theyíre always the same size, and everything is proportioned correctly.  I sometimes see Ďpostage stampsí with black pillars on the top and bottom as well during commercials shot in the 16:9 format and then swished into the 4:3 perspective for Buzzr, but thatís the only time I see postage stamps.  I never see postage stamps during the actual program.

How does the lower-right logo look to you?

I can't think of a show running on Buzzr that was produced in 16:9, so the majority of shows can be expected to have pillars.
The Buzzr logo is a perfect circle.  Everything is in the correct perspective.  If something were off, I would change the aspect ratio to fit, but I rarely adjust it from 16:9.