The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: TheInquisitiveOne on March 03, 2021, 04:58:44 PM
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Good afternoon.
Taking a trip down the YouTube rabbit hole, I started watching a bunch of episodes of the underrated Dick Clark show The Challengers. There were quite a few changes in the one year it was on (more on that later), but there was one reply in one of the episode uploads that took me aback.
In my area (Chicago-NW Indiana), The Challengers aired as a companion show to Jeopardy, the former coming on at 3pm and the latter following at 3:30 pm on WLS 7. However, the commenter said that in his area (which he didn’t specify), the Challengers aired AGAINST Jeopardy, which played a role in its quick demise. For those of you who remember, was this the case? Did it air as a lead-in to Jeopardy, or did it air completely separate from Jeopardy where you live?
Also, was it ever mentioned that Disney had a stake in the show? In an ad from my 1990 TV Guide, there was an ad for the show which had a Disney copyright written on the side. Oddly enough, in the weeks that this show was advertised (it was about six weeks for the Chicago Metro edition), the Disney copyright showed up for that one week, and that was that.
Finally, as is the case with some fledgling shows trying to find its footing (thinking of Play the Percentages and the CBS Joker’s Wild as I type this), the show went through various format changes. As I remember: the immediate downgrade of the Ultimate Challenge Jackpot (from $50,000+$5,000 for each unsuccessful attempt, to $25,000+$1,000 per day until hit - which happened immediately after a win with format 1, to $10,000 daily, to completely gone), and the removal and eventual return of the Challengers Sprint (temporarily replaced with a single $100 tossup) I ask you: which format was the best one? Or, if there’s no clear answer, how would you combine the formats to create one definitive format?
IMO: I would keep the sprint and the main game format as is. The winner would play the Ultimate Challenge for $10,000 (using the multilayered answer style instead of the three questions format, which I thought hurt the flow of the rest of the game when it happened). If the champion made it to his or her fifth and final day, the Ultimate Challenge would be played for a flat $50,000, with content difficulty to match.
Sorry if this ran a little long in the tooth, but besides the questions I posited above, I love to hear your overall thoughts on the show. I appreciate your time. Be safe.
The Inquisitive One
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Around here, it aired at 5 pm on WVEC, the same channel that airs Jeopardy! to this day ay 7:30. Then it moved to 10:30 am in spring or summer of '91.
I loved The Challengers and think that this, like Caesar's Challenge, were two shows that were either several years too early or too late. Maybe if it premieres in 1986 or 2000, it grows legs and runs for a few years on a network. But by 1990, J! was the clearly established favorite, and the genre was already headed in a downturn, and I don't think syndication was gonna allow for two difficult quizzers at that point. Never mind all the other trivia shows that premiered in syndication that season (TJW, TTD, Trump Card.
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The Challengers has always been a sentimental favorite of mine, and something I've talked a lot about on this board. Many of their changes were for the better, but I think the rigors of the production schedule contributed to not having enough time to slow down and pick the best possible format to stick with.
In short, letting everybody keep their money was a big hindrance. The question amounts on offer were likely kept low because of the once-in-a-lifetime chance somebody could go hog wild in the main game and triple their total in the Final Challenge. I really think they could have afforded doubling the values on the board and only letting the winner keep their cash. For whatever marketing edge it affords you over Jeopardy! to say it's real money in front of the players, when it's $850, the ratings needle isn't moving enough to warrant it.
I thought the Ultimate Challenge was a dud. And it took up way too much time from actually playing the game that gets you there. When rounds were called early for time on Ultimate Challenge episodes, I didn't feel like any of the day's players got their best shot at the game. Imagine if Jeopardy! let champions play the old five-in-a-row Super Jeopardy! board every so often, and on those shows, time is called with half of the clues still covered. Yuck. If I'm a contestant, I might fake a stomach flu.
In an era where Jeopardy! was retiring five-time champions, The Challengers' lot in life could have been as the show where the best players keep winning and winning as long as they can. If you want to reward streaks of wins, fine, but to do so in a "we play this sometimes"-segment didn't work for me. So that's what I'd do: simply let winners stay on day after day, and play the format the begins with the Sprint.
-Jason
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I live in Chicago, so you've already covered my airing history!
Definitely one of my favorite quizzes of all time. I agree that the pacing on Ultimate Challenge days in the Jackpot era did a disserrvice to the contestants playing that day, but I like the final format where it was played every day with one big question for $10k. Speed round quizzing wasn't Dick's forte, so I would have eliminated the Sprint totally and just asked a $100 tossup to decide control or just ceded control of the board to the champ.
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I agree that the pacing on Ultimate Challenge days in the Jackpot era did a disserrvice to the contestants playing that day, but I like the final format where it was played every day with one big question for $10k.
FWIW, Wiki is saying the one-question version lasted from November 21, 1990 to February or March of '91. I know it wasn't played on the finale.
-Jason
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I agree that the pacing on Ultimate Challenge days in the Jackpot era did a disserrvice to the contestants playing that day, but I like the final format where it was played every day with one big question for $10k.
FWIW, Wiki is saying the one-question version lasted from November 21, 1990 to February or March of '91. I know it wasn't played on the finale.
-Jason
As the person who relayed that bit of information...
The latest point in the run that I saw the daily UC played was February 15, 1991, the Friday episode for that week. Dick doesn’t say anything about being the last UC, and the next episode chronologically that I’ve been able to see is the April Fool episode, which fell on a Monday; wherever that date of the retiring of the bonus falls is somewhere between.
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In Detroit, it aired after Nightline. Because everybody's up for a hard quiz at midnight. And if you're able to make it up past Letterman, The $100,000 Pyramid aired at 1:35 AM.
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I also recall Dick not saying anything about being the last daily Ultimate Challenge (which was barely won anyway). Besides, it would seem cheap if he mentioned that they weren't doing it anymore, they probably just hoped viewers would forget about it.
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In Detroit, it aired after Nightline. Because everybody's up for a hard quiz at midnight. And if you're able to make it up past Letterman, The $100,000 Pyramid aired at 1:35 AM.
Because of the nature of the auto industry, that was actually a good time slot in Detroit. Supposedly the HUT levels were equal to primetime due to shift workers.
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Here's a question: Has any hard quiz game had a good bonus round? I loved Kennedy's Split Second and The Big Showdown, but one with a vague connection to the front game and some element of a quiz?
I've always found The Challengers disappointing. They took a unique game, Who What or Where, subtracted most of the uniqueness, then made a big deal out of slight distinctions not worth caring about. The Ultimate Challenge--potentially a difference maker--was as lazily conceived as could be.
Trump Card is about the best I can think of. Maybe Blockbusters, but the initials and the hex board made it more than a straight quiz.
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Has any hard quiz game had a good bonus round? [...] one with a vague connection to the front game and some element of a quiz?
Jeopardy! '78, maybe?
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Jeopardy! '78, maybe?
Yeah, especially since the board was a bingo card like Trump Card's. I felt the latter's clock helped the pace.
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Has any hard quiz game had a good bonus round? I loved Kennedy's Split Second and The Big Showdown, but one with a vague connection to the front game and some element of a quiz?
I'd say Blockbusters qualifies; a slight solo variant on the main game while still being a hard quiz.
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Here's a question: Has any hard quiz game had a good bonus round?
My hot take: OG Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?
Hear me out.
The phone game was the main game.
Fastest Finger was the final, deciding question.
Everything in the Hot Seat was the bonus round.
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Around here, it aired at 5 pm on WVEC, the same channel that airs Jeopardy! to this day ay 7:30. Then it moved to 10:30 am in spring or summer of '91.
This very nearly mirrors WGAL, and what they did with the show (except WGAL never ran WoF or J!). It started out at 5pm, then moved to 10:30am, but in January '91.
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One thing I’m curious is to who hit the Ultimate Challenge in its original format on the third occasion.
It was hit for 42 large on October 18 and it was back to 31 when Stan Newman hit it on November 20...if my calculations are right, the pot would’ve reset on November 5, correct?
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In my area (Chicago-NW Indiana), The Challengers aired as a companion show to Jeopardy, the former coming on at 3pm and the latter following at 3:30 pm on WLS 7. However, the commenter said that in his area (which he didn’t specify), the Challengers aired AGAINST Jeopardy, which played a role in its quick demise. For those of you who remember, was this the case? Did it air as a lead-in to Jeopardy, or did it air completely separate from Jeopardy where you live?
In San Francisco, I'm pretty sure The Challengers and Jeopardy ran in the 4-5 PM block on KRON; I want to say Jeopardy ran at 4 and The Challengers at 4:30, but I'm not 100% sure about that.
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I just watched the October 1990 ep. that Chris posted. At some point, I'll watch a few more episodes to re-familiarize myself, but I can't help but notice how much the Ultimate Challenge dragged in comparison to the rest of the show. It almost felt like a tacked-on idea.
I'm guessing the producers felt the need to add a bonus round of some sort to make it not look like J!, but I don't think this was the route to go.
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The idea was good. The execution totally sucked.
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I think that’s a little harsh. How would you execute differently?
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Given that this show was originally on when I was 6, I didn't really appreciate it for what it was, other than it was another game show, and I recognized Dick Clark. Having watched it again as an adult, I really enjoyed the game as a whole, but also completely understand how, in a world already occupied by J!, why it only lasted one season.
For it to have gotten legs and gone for multiple seasons like J!, I think it needed to come out *before* Alex's J! gets legs and becomes Wheel's syndie twin. But, since J! is such a simple game at its core (yes; the trivia is challenging, but the game itself is extremely easy to follow), I still think J! had a much better chance of a long life as compared to The Challengers. Of course, too simple of a format isn't really interesting (see Card, Trump), but too complicated of a format means not as many are going to give it a chance unless there is some other sort of gimmick to hook people (huge cash prize, super-engaging host, etc.). And, I think this is why they originally had the Ultimate Challenge: a huge cash prize dangled in front of viewers that a champ had to win 3 times to try for, so you'd want to see if someone would get a chance at that big money. The downside, though, is that, if you know a champ was on his/her second day, and your incentive is to see that huge cash prize played for, you'll just watch the next day and see if that champ is back. Oh, she lost? Guess you'll check back in three days...
That said, I think, if they had stuck with the final format (Sprint round, no Ultimate Challenge), that would have been the best format from a game play perspective: it's the simplest format of the ones they tried, and it had a good mix of rapid trivia and the strategy/betting part of the game I think we all enjoyed. I, honestly, never knew there *was* a bonus round until I saw an episode with the Ultimate Challenge as an adult; I thought the Final Challenge was the end of the game.
Final thoughts after rambling: I love The Challengers as a game (I think the idea behind it would make a great board game). I wish it would have lasted longer. But, with J! ruling the trivia roost by 1990, and still doing so to this day, I don't know what format could have been done to eat away at that.
Anthony
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I think that’s a little harsh. How would you execute differently?
I think they got the right idea when they turned it into a daily game. One question, multiple answers, get it and you win. That way you accomplish the same objective in a tidier package and you don’t have to sacrifice a whole half a round of play to fit it in.
I felt the concept of qualifying to play the bonus was a novel idea, but clumsy in its execution.
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Ok, you meant just the bonus game. Hard to argue that.
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Ok, you meant just the bonus game. Hard to argue that.
Sorry if I didn’t make that clear enough. :)
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The daily Ultimate Challenge at the end of the game makes a whole lot more sense. To make it more in line with the rest of the show, I'd say you first give the category for the Ultimate Challenge, then offer the three subcategories like so:
Easy - Single answer, $2,000
Medium - Two-part answer, $5,000
Hard - Three-part answer, $10,000
Also, this is a very nitpicky thing, but I can't shake that when I look at the main shot of the three players, I'm looking at something that feels a little too much like Jeopardy at the time. Have the players seated, make the center champion's seat raised and set back a bit or something, use eggcrates for scoring instead of white vanes, I dunno. Just give it a look that doesn't tell the viewer "You're watching Jeopardy, but not quite" on first glance.
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Just give it a look that doesn't tell the viewer "You're watching Jeopardy, but not quite" on first glance.
... which the original 3W's did rather well. Still baffled over why the original format (with mo' money, of course) wasn't exciting enough for the remake.
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That said, I think, if they had stuck with the final format (Sprint round, no Ultimate Challenge), that would have been the best format from a game play perspective: it's the simplest format of the ones they tried, and it had a good mix of rapid trivia and the strategy/betting part of the game I think we all enjoyed.
I agree with the earlier point that Dick Clark was awfully wobbly when it came to the speed round, but by this format, they changed enough things to accommodate him - Dick got to finish reading before they buzzed, and only one player was able to ring in on a particular question. That seemed to reduce all of his faults within those 60 seconds. It was slower than a $ale speed round, but a nice way to differentiate the show from Jeopardy!
Also, this is a very nitpicky thing, but I can't shake that when I look at the main shot of the three players, I'm looking at something that feels a little too much like Jeopardy at the time. Have the players seated, make the center champion's seat raised and set back a bit or something, use eggcrates for scoring instead of white vanes, I dunno.
I agree, from earlier threads. When you offer that direct visual comparison, seeing one show's players flail around with sub-$1,000 scores isn't going to help. The pilot put the total scores below the bet monitors, but that didn't work IMO. The only major format difference I can recall from the pilot was each category had different dollar amounts. That is to say, one round 1 category could go $100-$150-$200, and another in the same round could go $75-$100-$125.
-Jason
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The sad thing about The Challengers is that Dick Clark was the right host on the wrong show, and that we got saddled with John Friggin' Davidson for the $100K Pyramid revival a few months later.
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I would have given this to Jim Perry with no questions asked.
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Also, this is a very nitpicky thing, but I can't shake that when I look at the main shot of the three players, I'm looking at something that feels a little too much like Jeopardy at the time. Have the players seated, make the center champion's seat raised and set back a bit or something, use eggcrates for scoring instead of white vanes, I dunno.
They could've have the scores behind and above their heads, a la the original 3 W's. They could have made the privacy screens between players more prominent, maybe neon edges. Even back then the set, logo and graphics were just plain dull. Looked like a courtroom show.
Wholeheartedly agree on Jim Perry.
One thing differentiating Who What or Where from J! was that there was no buzzing in. I can see a speed round news quiz--especially if Perry were hosting--at the beginning and maybe another halfway through to earn stake money, but there's a simplicity in no buzzing at all.
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I would have given this to Jim Perry with no questions asked.
The way his delivery was for SOTC...he would have been a great host for this show.