The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: PYLdude on August 20, 2020, 04:52:49 PM
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So I was watching Frank Spangenberg lay waste to the one day and five day records on Jeopardy from way back when and became curious of something.
The rules back then dictated that they had a cap of $75,000 for champions (I’ll assume tournaments didn’t count toward that total) and the overages went to charity. Alex mentions the show does this at the request of their “network of record”.
The only other times I can remember this coming into effect where on The Joker’s Wild when Joe Dunn was retired in 1983 and when Brian Hunt (?) was retired on Card Sharks in 1986 after they started allowing multiple car wins in the Money Cards (they hadn’t yet established the rule at 2; that I wanna say came after AMC replaced GM as the provider). Barry mentions the network (not by name), but Rafferty doesn’t.
While I would figure this to be a common practice back in those days, who exactly was the network of record in these cases? I would assume in all three cases it was CBS, largely because a) when Frank won, I don’t think their limit for network shows was done away with and it was still $75K at the time; b) Joker was on a lot of CBS stations including O&Os around that time, and c)CS recorded at Television City.
Also, were there other shows that fell under these kinds of rules?
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My memory is, up until some point in the 1980s, CBS had a $25,000 winnings cap, and ABC had a $20,000 winnings cap.
Joker and Tic Tac Dough ran on the CBS O&Os for a couple of years in the 1980s, so they had to obey the CBS cap.
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I would've assumed ABC was the network of record for J!, mainly because of ABC S&P overseeing their tapings.
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I have an additional question. Did networks have different caps for programs that aired on their network and syndicated programs that they were the "network of record" for?
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I would've assumed ABC was the network of record for J!, mainly because of ABC S&P overseeing their tapings.
I believe ABC *was* J!'s (and WOF's) network of record at the time. (Despite previous versions of this post, I can't seem to find direct reference in the Eisenberg book. I may have seen this in the Trebek/Barsocchini book.) I'm not sure if they still are these days.
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My memory is, up until some point in the 1980s, CBS had a $25,000 winnings cap, and ABC had a $20,000 winnings cap.
CBS upped to $50k shortly after Michael Larson’s win, and I’m pretty sure it was $75k before Pyramid ended.
Were there any SYN NBC games that got to go by wins in nighttime instead of a money cap?
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Were there any SYN NBC games that got to go by wins in nighttime instead of a money cap?
Sale of the Century, once it switched over to the Winner's Board.
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I have an additional question. Did networks have different caps for programs that aired on their network and syndicated programs that they were the "network of record" for?
I "think" syndicated Feud had NBC as its network of record, as I vaguely recall Dawson mentioning on one episode that they "conferred with NBC" (or words to that effect) involving a decision concerning a Fast Money answer. Then again, for all I know, it was an ABC episode - wasn't there some rule that S&P couldn't be from the same network as the show itself?
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I have an additional question. Did networks have different caps for programs that aired on their network and syndicated programs that they were the "network of record" for?
I "think" syndicated Feud had NBC as its network of record, as I vaguely recall Dawson mentioning on one episode that they "conferred with NBC" (or words to that effect) involving a decision concerning a Fast Money answer. Then again, for all I know, it was an ABC episode - wasn't there some rule that S&P couldn't be from the same network as the show itself?
That’s a curiosity I had. The show originated on ABC, taped at ABC, but NBC signed to air the show on their O&O’s, so I figured they’d at least have a little say.
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Would a winnings limit affect The Price is Right? I recall a woman from October 1981 (as seen on Youtube) winning $27k in loot, mostly a Cadillac, but would it be that she exceeded the limit so she can no longer be a returning champion?
I recall that Wheel of Fortune had a winnings limit of what seems like an absurd $125,000 for that period in 1989-199x where you could win three days on the trot and Bonusland had the big loot.
I think it's interesting that Jeopardy had just one person max out over $175,000--and Chuck Forrest was almost in a position to be the first for a long time. I don't recall Lezsek P. nor Dan Melia getting to donate a few hundred bucks of their take (plus Dan took a Corvette home to Berkley.) It did seem odd to have a winnings limit that seemed reasonable but would be surpassed by the year's grand champion.
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Would a winnings limit affect The Price is Right? I recall a woman from October 1981 (as seen on Youtube) winning $27k in loot, mostly a Cadillac, but would it be that she exceeded the limit so she can no longer be a returning champion
TPiR had a $125K winnings limit as late as 2006, but nobody broke it until a Vickyann won over $147K in prizes on the Season 35 premiere. Apparently, CBS said "screw it", and got rid of it, paving the way for the Big Money Week shows in years to come.
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I'm going to toss in a very hazy memory here about S&P for the early days of Jeopardy!. I challenged an answer on my first-season episode and I seem to recall the S&P letter that came back was from NBC. I can remember there was a colored logo on the corner of the envelope and thinking it odd that NBC was involved at all.
As I said, my memory could be wrong here (it's 35+ years, after all)...but I'm reasonably sure it wasn't from ABC.
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I'm going to toss in a very hazy memory here about S&P for the early days of Jeopardy!. I challenged an answer on my first-season episode and I seem to recall the S&P letter that came back was from NBC. I can remember there was a colored logo on the corner of the envelope and thinking it odd that NBC was involved at all.
As I said, my memory could be wrong here (it's 35+ years, after all)...but I'm reasonably sure it wasn't from ABC.
See, I was always under the impression that the network of record was NBC, largely because of how many of its affiliates carry the show. (Wasn’t until later that, to my surprise, the affiliate count leader is actually CBS.)
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See, I was always under the impression that the network of record was NBC, largely because of how many of its affiliates carry the show. (Wasn’t until later that, to my surprise, the affiliate count leader is actually CBS.)
The five NBC O&Os in 1984 were (according to Wikipedia):
WNBC, New York
WKYC, Cleveland
KNBC, Los Angeles
WMAQ, Chicago
WRC, Washington, D.C.
Of those five, only WNBC and WRC bought Jeopardy! for year one, and WNBC let it go partway through the year when WABC's 4 PM time period opened up.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/fcAAAOSwUHleD-Rw/s-l1600.jpg)
Maybe it was easier to keep NBC as the network of record for both Wheel and Jeopardy.
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See, I was always under the impression that the network of record was NBC, largely because of how many of its affiliates carry the show. (Wasn’t until later that, to my surprise, the affiliate count leader is actually CBS.)
Without any specific example to prop it up, I was always thought the O&Os were the determining factor, or at the very least that the NY, LA, and maybe Chicago markets made the determination. A larger sum total of affiliates airing a particular show really doesn't motivate the network to assign their expensive legal resources. But, if they are airing a syndicated game show on their O&Os, then the network would have a great deal of interest, since they have skin in the game.
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See, I was always under the impression that the network of record was NBC, largely because of how many of its affiliates carry the show. (Wasn’t until later that, to my surprise, the affiliate count leader is actually CBS.)
Without any specific example to prop it up, I was always thought the O&Os were the determining factor, or at the very least that the NY, LA, and maybe Chicago markets made the determination. A larger sum total of affiliates airing a particular show really doesn't motivate the network to assign their expensive legal resources. But, if they are airing a syndicated game show on their O&Os, then the network would have a great deal of interest, since they have skin in the game.
That’s not a bad line of thinking, but in Jeopardy’s case you look at that ad and in those three markets you have a NBC O&O, a CBS O&O, and an ABC O&O airing the show in those three markets. Might not have worked out right in that case.
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I would've assumed ABC was the network of record for J!, mainly because of ABC S&P overseeing their tapings.
I believe ABC *was* J!'s (and WOF's) network of record at the time. (Despite previous versions of this post, I can't seem to find direct reference in the Eisenberg book. I may have seen this in the Trebek/Barsocchini book.) I'm not sure if they still are these days.
Page 38 of the Trebek/Barsocchini book (published in 1990):
Even though Jeopardy! is a syndicated show, since we air on two stations owned and operated by the Cap Cities/ABC Television Network, ABC is our "network of record." This means that we produce Jeopardy! under guidelines laid down by the ABC Department of Broadcast Standards and Practices.
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Page 38 of the Trebek/Barsocchini book (published in 1990):
Even though Jeopardy! is a syndicated show, since we air on two stations owned and operated by the Cap Cities/ABC Television Network, ABC is our "network of record." This means that we produce Jeopardy! under guidelines laid down by the ABC Department of Broadcast Standards and Practices.
Thanks--that very well may be where I heard about that. I don't have that book in my collection--just the aforementioned Eisenberg book.
/starts wondering if the local library still had that book
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(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/fcAAAOSwUHleD-Rw/s-l1600.jpg)
On a side path, in that ad for "Wheel of Fortune" you notice that New York and Los Angeles were not listed. Did syndicated Wheel not air in NY or LA until the 2nd season?
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On a side path, in that ad for "Wheel of Fortune" you notice that New York and Los Angeles were not listed. Did syndicated Wheel not air in NY or LA until the 2nd season?
IIRC, Wheel was picked up for its first season by only 59 stations. If Chicago hadn't cleared it, it likely would've never went to syndication.
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On a side path, in that ad for "Wheel of Fortune" you notice that New York and Los Angeles were not listed. Did syndicated Wheel not air in NY or LA until the 2nd season?
From what I've seen, WCBS and KCOP didn't start airing Wheel until around March or April 1984.
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On a side path, in that ad for "Wheel of Fortune" you notice that New York and Los Angeles were not listed. Did syndicated Wheel not air in NY or LA until the 2nd season?
From what I've seen, WCBS and KCOP didn't start airing Wheel until around March or April 1984.
Right. Per New York magazine, WCBS started airing Wheel in April 1984, replacing the local magazine show 2 on the Town.
If you look closely at the ad, it compares November 1983 sweep numbers (at the right) with February 1984 sweep numbers (at the left). It looks like they only listed markets where the show aired in both November and February and the numbers had gone up.
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On a side path, in that ad for "Wheel of Fortune" you notice that New York and Los Angeles were not listed. Did syndicated Wheel not air in NY or LA until the 2nd season?
IIRC, Wheel was picked up for its first season by only 59 stations. If Chicago hadn't cleared it, it likely would've never went to syndication.
I remember checking the Chicago Tribune TV listings a while back and noticing that nighttime Wheel wasn't cleared until January '84.
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Page 38 of the Trebek/Barsocchini book (published in 1990):
THAT'S where I remember that from. Thanks!
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IIRC, J!s first season taped at ABC TV Center on Prospect.
Could that be the reason why ABC was the network of record?
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IIRC, J!s first season taped at ABC TV Center on Prospect.
Could that be the reason why ABC was the network of record?
The first season taped at Metromedia/KTTV.
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IIRC, J!s first season taped at ABC TV Center on Prospect.
Could that be the reason why ABC was the network of record?
Pretty sure the Eisenberg book says NBC was the network of record when they started, and that the switch to ABC S&P happened when the show moved from WNBC to WABC partway into Season 1.
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Pretty sure the Eisenberg book says NBC was the network of record when they started, and that the switch to ABC S&P happened when the show moved from WNBC to WABC partway into Season 1.
We definitely taped at Metromedia Square -- that much I'm sure of. And that mid-season switch would explain why my S&P letter came from NBC.
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Here's one I haven't been able to pin down.
What is the network of record for Clark $100k Pyramid?
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Here's one I haven't been able to pin down.
What is the network of record for Clark $100k Pyramid?
Both LA & NYC were RKO General stations at the time, so I don't believe there was one for them. I think the same applied to Davidson Pyramid.
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Here's one I haven't been able to pin down.
What is the network of record for Clark $100k Pyramid?
Both LA & NYC were RKO General stations at the time, so I don't believe there was one for them. I think the same applied to Davidson Pyramid.
By the time Davidson's was on, that would be MCA Inc., no?
So not CBS?
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Factoring in KNBC as their LA station, I wouldn't think so.
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Factoring in KNBC as their LA station, I wouldn't think so.
And WNBC as their initial NYC station (the show relocated to the original $100K’s home, now WWOR, for the abbreviated second season).
I always figured, since the show stayed at Television City the whole time, CBS would have to have been the station of record for at least part of the run.
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Davidson Pyramid didn't even air in NYC for its first half season. When the second season premiered, WNBC picked it up and aired it with Family Feud in the middle of the night. Then in March of 1992, WWOR picked them up for the 5PM hour. I recall thinking it was very odd that three weeks later Pyramid went off the air.
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Aren't J! and Wheel carried on all of the ABC O&O stations? That would explain how ABC is considered the "network of record" when the network actually has nothing to do with it. The station group is the client, not the network. c.f. Gong Show. Daytime on NBC network, nighttime on ABC stations. Also TPIR on CBS net and NBC O&O stations. I call it "one-stop shopping" for guys like Jerry Chester.
The shows are shot at network facilities because the sets are already in place for the daytime versions.
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Apologies for the bump from 2020, but had a related question that didn't feel like it justified a new thread.
I just got to the point of logging the Rafferty CS retirement in question, and the retirement happens at a weird time. 3 complete games, 2 cars, and a total of $63,105. He plays his third game (crossing $60K) after having already crossed $50K and having already won two cars. Winning the car retired you early on (when the show was giving away $30K+ cars), and from the original post, later on winning 2 seemed to do it. But not here.
Did the show self-impose a $60,000 winnings limit at this point? Every mention I've seen of a network/O&O cap at this point was for either $75K or none - and what was the network of record for this version? It filmed at CBS, but was airing on [edit: Multiple O&O's - NBC in LA but ABC in NYC.] Bill mentions the contestant has hit the winnings limit, but never says why - and gets in a full game after his second car win.
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Apologies for the bump from 2020, but had a related question that didn't feel like it justified a new thread.
I just got to the point of logging the Rafferty CS retirement in question, and the retirement happens at a weird time. 3 complete games, 2 cars, and a total of $63,105. He plays his third game (crossing $60K) after having already crossed $50K and having already won two cars. Winning the car retired you early on (when the show was giving away $30K+ cars), and from the original post, later on winning 2 seemed to do it. But not here.
Did the show self-impose a $60,000 winnings limit at this point? Every mention I've seen of a network/O&O cap at this point was for either $75K or none - and what was the network of record for this version? It filmed at CBS, but was airing on ABC O&Os. Bill mentions the contestant has hit the winnings limit, but never says why - and gets in a full game after his second car win.
In Los Angeles, Card Sharks was on KNBC at 7:30 pm
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what was the network of record for this version? It filmed at CBS
Again, it didn't matter where the show was shot. The set was in place at TV City for the daytime version so where else would they shoot it?
Who was the syndicator?
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Who was the syndicator?
Television Program Source