The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: tyshaun1 on June 15, 2020, 12:56:25 PM
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Have we ever talked about this? This is a link (pulled from Newspapers.com, may need to get a free trial) to an article from the Lansing State Journal with Matt discussing his appearance on $OTC. It also reveals his opinions on game show and hosts of the time... some will surprise you.
https://www.newspapers.com/image/209266806 (https://www.newspapers.com/image/209266806)
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Can someone please screenshoot it or summarize it for us who don't want to subscribe for this? Thanks.
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Can someone please screenshoot it or summarize it for us who don't want to subscribe for this? Thanks.
It looks to me like Tyshaun already did:
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/53492027/lansing-state-journal/
That link work? I was able to read it without a subscription.
Thanks Tyshaun for finding this. Definitely some hot takes, at least by today's standards.
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The second link works.
Snarky! I wonder how Matt feels about some of these today.
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To be fair, 1985 Matt's opinion on Trebek and Jeopardy was the general consensus in those early days, and it's something I'd honestly love for the show to reference in any future history segments- they endured a lot of early public ridicule to get where they are.
Still share his opinion on Jim Lange though. Seems like a nice enough guy, but he just wasn't spectacular on any of his shows, and The Dating Game was designed for him to introduce the contestants and get out of the way.
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I mean, he really wasn't wrong about the first year of Jeopardy! - Adam and I had taken to watching some of the really early episodes recently and there are a lot of issues early on that could be chalked up to lack of polish. Alex overexplains a lot, the set looks gaudy with all the glitter and the exposed neon lighting, there's a lot of unnecessary applause, many of the games are runaways going into FJ, and there always seemed to be at least one moment in each episode where at least one person (be it Alex or someone at the production table) momentarily loses track of the game and they have to get it back on the rails while the tape is still rolling.
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Out of curiosity, I'm wondering how Tyshaun came across this.
lol at the Jim Lange comment. Based on similar comments on this board in the not-so distant past, I'd say many would agree.
It looks to me like Tyshaun already did:
Your link was actually slightly different--it's just the article itself. Which I greatly appreciated--I already burned through my free trial last year.
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I mean, he really wasn't wrong about the first year of Jeopardy! - Adam and I had taken to watching some of the really early episodes recently and there are a lot of issues early on that could be chalked up to lack of polish. Alex overexplains a lot, the set looks gaudy with all the glitter and the exposed neon lighting, there's a lot of unnecessary applause, many of the games are runaways going into FJ, and there always seemed to be at least one moment in each episode where at least one person (be it Alex or someone at the production table) momentarily loses track of the game and they have to get it back on the rails while the tape is still rolling.
And while Alex is now a national institution as Jeopardy host, he absolutely wasn't in 1985--there were a number of people (myself included) who refused to accept anyone but Art Fleming as host. (I was also influenced by the last show Alex had hosted, Battlestars, which was a poor fit for him, exacerbated by a few painful attempts to be as funny as the celebs.) Now I think of Alex as the host of the show and Art as somewhat similar to Bert Parks (albeit far more genuine and sincere).
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And while Alex is now a national institution as Jeopardy host, he absolutely wasn't in 1985--there were a number of people (myself included) who refused to accept anyone but Art Fleming as host. (I was also influenced by the last show Alex had hosted, Battlestars, which was a poor fit for him, exacerbated by a few painful attempts to be as funny as the celebs.) Now I think of Alex as the host of the show and Art as somewhat similar to Bert Parks (albeit far more genuine and sincere).
So...you're saying that the Art Fleming stans were the original LFATs?
/I kid...
I think people would have found fault in anyone who got that job whose name wasn't Art Fleming.
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One of my first "adult jobs" was at a radio station in New Jersey where the afternoon news anchor was a huge game show fan, specifically "Match Game." He was a casual fan of J!, and admitted that it took him several years to warm up to Trebek as host after growing up with Art Fleming.
I asked him what issues he had with Trebek. He said he had a hard time taking someone whose previous shows were "High Rollers," "Pitfall" and "Battlestars" seriously. He half-jokingly noted that, during that first Trebek J! season, whenever a contestant found a Daily Double, he expected Trebek to hand the player a pair of dice to roll.
The funny thing is, after appearing on WWTBAM and a few family members and friends telling me I should audition for J!, I heard from other older friends and relatives who said the same thing -- they love J!, but it took them a good 5-6 years to accept Trebek as the emcee. To them, he was no Art Fleming and, at least for the first few years, he was the usurper to the throne.
JD
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Watching the first-season episodes, the show - and Alex - were definitely much looser, and a night and day difference from Art's versions. Looking at it from a 1985 POV, and assuming that as a viewer, I vaguely remember Art, I understand Matt's thoughts, as well as the fact that Alex had only hosted one other hard trivia game, nearly a decade prior. Years ago, I bought the J! DVD that included the first episode from '84, and could not stop laughing at how gaudy the set looked.
As for Jim Lange, he gives me traffic cop host vibes. Like Jeremy said, he seemed like a nice guy, but didn't bring anything spectacular to any of the games he hosted.
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I asked him what issues he had with Trebek. He said he had a hard time taking someone whose previous shows were "High Rollers," "Pitfall" and "Battlestars" seriously.
I love this point because if you showed an episode of "High Rollers" or "Battlestars" to a Gen-Z'er, their jaw would be on the ground because they've only ever known the professorial Trebek.
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He's kinda the Ice Cube of game shows- the older generation knows him for something almost completely different than what younger fans know him from.
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I love this point because if you showed an episode of "High Rollers" or "Battlestars" to a Gen-Z'er, their jaw would be on the ground because they've only ever known the professorial Trebek.
And then show them an episode of Classic Concentration where he's wearing one of those sweaters.
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I love this point because if you showed an episode of "High Rollers" or "Battlestars" to a Gen-Z'er, their jaw would be on the ground because they've only ever known the professorial Trebek.
And then show them an episode of Classic Concentration where he's wearing one of those sweaters.
Keeping on this tangent, last week, I went to brunch with my girlfriend and her friends*. Somehow, the topic of old Jeopardy! came up, and I showed them a picture from one of the pilots. Naturally, they were very amazed by the set and Alex's pornstache, and someone compared him to Tom Selleck. :P
*/Don't worry; we were outdoors
//Social distancing and all
///I did miss brunch
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Jim Perry was definitely one of (IF NOT) the most underrated hosts in game show history. The delivery he gave on Sale of The Century was tremendous when it came down to Instant Bargains. The excitement he had for contestants on Card Sharks, especially the Money Cards. He doesn't get enough credit for the two big hits he hosted.
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I asked him what issues he had with Trebek. He said he had a hard time taking someone whose previous shows were "High Rollers," "Pitfall" and "Battlestars" seriously.
I love this point because if you showed an episode of "High Rollers" or "Battlestars" to a Gen-Z'er, their jaw would be on the ground because they've only ever known the professorial Trebek.
Speaking of Battlestars, why did NBC bring it back if it wasn't terribly successful the first time?
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I asked him what issues he had with Trebek. He said he had a hard time taking someone whose previous shows were "High Rollers," "Pitfall" and "Battlestars" seriously.
I love this point because if you showed an episode of "High Rollers" or "Battlestars" to a Gen-Z'er, their jaw would be on the ground because they've only ever known the professorial Trebek.
Speaking of Battlestars, why did NBC bring it back if it wasn't terribly successful the first time?
I'm guessing because 1983 was a "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" kind of year for NBC.
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They must have been desperate if they start picking through the garbage pile
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There always seemed to be at least one moment in each episode where at least one person (be it Alex or someone at the production table) momentarily loses track of the game and they have to get it back on the rails while the tape is still rolling.
So it's just one first-season contestant's experience, but I can attest that the board was breaking down two or three times per episode during our taping sessions. It made it really hard for both the contestants and Alex to keep the "flow" going.
And Alex's attempts at humor early on sometimes came off a tad snarky, as when the FJ category "20th Century" came up: "Not too broad, is it, players?" Heh heh.
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As someone who was born in 1985, I intellectually knew that the word "boners" meant something different back in the day than it does now, but I didn't realize that fact until seeing in print in this article without a hint of the snickering that always follows it today.
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Speaking of Battlestars, why did NBC bring it back if it wasn't terribly successful the first time?
I don't have Betty White's book Here We Go Again in front of me, but as memory serves, Grant Tinker, who was chairman and CEO of NBC in 1983, tuned into White's Just Men! one day when he was otherwise unoccupied--and hated it (and remember the Tinkers and Luddens were very close friends).
I would guess Battlestars was revived quickly because it could be revived quickly to replace Just Men! (Dream House, which replaced Hit Man at the same time, probably had been tested a bit more), with the knowledge it wouldn't be around long.
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Speaking of Battlestars, why did NBC bring it back if it wasn't terribly successful the first time?
I don't have Betty White's book Here We Go Again in front of me, but as memory serves, Grant Tinker, who was chairman and CEO of NBC in 1983, tuned into White's Just Men! one day when he was otherwise unoccupied--and hated it (and remember the Tinkers and Luddens were very close friends).
I brought up my Kindle copy of this book and you're right on the money. Betty's own words.
The viewers were enthusiastic, but we lasted only thirteen weeks. The reason we were canceled is funnier, I think, than the show ever dreamed of being. Grounded at home for a couple of days with a bad cold, the chairman of NBC had a chance to watch the show—and absolutely hated it. That chairman, you will remember, was one Grant Tinker. The thing that really turned him off was what made it so much fun for me—my not being anchored, but able to move around.
That last line makes me wonder about how static hosts on NBC were during this time, or period even.
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The thing that really turned him off was what made it so much fun for me—my not being anchored, but able to move around.
That last line makes me wonder about how static hosts on NBC were during this time, or period even.
Other than the first half of MG/HS Hour and the first few weeks of Time Machine, it seems like all the NBC hosts during the Tinker era were behind a podium.
Just Men! was up against Family Feud, so it may not have mattered much.
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Out of curiosity, I'm wondering how Tyshaun came across this.
Simply started looking up various game show articles from back in the 80's.
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I'm guessing because 1983 was a "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" kind of year for NBC.
NBC canceled almost all their moderately successful games in 1982 to save their much higher budget soaps, which proceeded to backfire on them. Each of the shows they canceled at the time were revived by the network over the following 5 years; my guess is because Battlestars was the newest, they decided to give it another shot first.
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I remember reading that Battlestars ratings were decent at the time it was cancelled, and the show that moved into that time slot never achieved what Battlestars achieved. That's probably why it was revived.
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Speaking of Battlestars, why did NBC bring it back if it wasn't terribly successful the first time?
I don't have Betty White's book Here We Go Again in front of me, but as memory serves, Grant Tinker, who was chairman and CEO of NBC in 1983, tuned into White's Just Men! one day when he was otherwise unoccupied--and hated it (and remember the Tinkers and Luddens were very close friends).
I brought up my Kindle copy of this book and you're right on the money. Betty's own words.
The viewers were enthusiastic, but we lasted only thirteen weeks. The reason we were canceled is funnier, I think, than the show ever dreamed of being. Grounded at home for a couple of days with a bad cold, the chairman of NBC had a chance to watch the show—and absolutely hated it. That chairman, you will remember, was one Grant Tinker. The thing that really turned him off was what made it so much fun for me—my not being anchored, but able to move around.
That last line makes me wonder about how static hosts on NBC were during this time, or period even.
OR was it because a woman was "man-ing" the show. OR Tinker maybe wanted to see BW on a panel instead of hosting a game show? Despite them being close friends. Ludden is gone at this point. Speculation at this point. We'll never know. However it's interesting nonetheless.
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I remember reading that Battlestars ratings were decent at the time it was cancelled, and the show that moved into that time slot never achieved what Battlestars achieved. That's probably why it was revived.
We're talking about 11:30 AM on NBC. Quick(ish) backgrounder: In April of '78, Wheel of Fortune moves there and plays second fiddle to Family Feud on ABC. Meanwhile, Wheel either outperforms, or stays neck-and-neck, with Love of Life on CBS.
The arrival of Whew! pushes up The Price is Right from 10:30 to 11, making the last half of Price into Wheel's new competition. Price eventually outperforms the combo of Laverne & Shirley reruns and Feud on ABC, making High Rollers & Wheel fall into a distinct third on NBC.
The David Letterman Show makes Wheel's stock fall further. The 11 o'clock hour eventually goes back to all-game with Wheel first and Password Plus now at 11:30. Still, Password Plus can't outperform primetime reruns on ABC, with Password's last weeks in the slot averaging an 18 share against Love Boat's 28 and Price's 32.
Enter Battlestars in October of '81. Frankly, there's not much to report over its run. Price and Love Boat stay largely steady at 33 and 27 respectively, while Battlestars ticks up and up to a 20 share for 2 weeks in April '82 before another slight dip, increases for its competition, and a cancellation. The hour-long soap Texas wipes out both games in its move from afternoons, and doesn't go above a 12-share average during its 36 weeks in the timeslot.
Meanwhile, at Noon, Doctors is earning single-digit share numbers for NBC. Just Men! enters and betters Doctor's 6-or-7 average with a 9 share. But alas, enter New Battlestars, which outperforms them both with a 10 average over its 13 weeks. However, it's still not good enough against Family Feud's 18-to-21 point averages, and time given to the affiliates on CBS.
-Jason
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Meanwhile, at Noon, Doctors is earning single-digit share numbers for NBC.
Was that worse, equal to or better than CS' numbers (noting that CS had the longest shelf life in the noon slot of any NBC show between J!'s cancellation and SP's premiere)?
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Worse. Card Sharks was averaging a 12 through most of its time at Noon, slipping near the end of the run to a 10. Doctors performed better in its previous afternoon slot(s), but lost to the other soaps it was against.
-Jason
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Meanwhile, at Noon, Doctors is earning single-digit share numbers for NBC. Just Men! enters and betters Doctor's 6-or-7 average with a 9 share.
Raising the ratings from "squat to squat and a half"</The Critic> obviously didn't make up for Tinker's displeasure. In fairness, there were other issues (booking seven male celebs every week, and how many different secrets could you reveal about all of them before circling around again?). I'm going to give Tinker the benefit of the doubt on this one.
Putting a soap at noon wasn't a ridiculous idea, but The Doctors was old and tired by that point.
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And to think of it, NBC found the perfect replacement for The Doctors in 1984 with Super Password....The Doctors was old and tired by that point, whereas Super Password frenshens up the original Password by making the jackpot bigger....
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Did they really? Password Plus had instituted a jackpot for Alphabetics in 1981 or 1982.
/yeah, sure, Cashword.
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And to think of it, NBC found the perfect replacement for The Doctors in 1984 with Super Password....The Doctors was old and tired by that point, whereas Super Password frenshens up the original Password by making the jackpot bigger....
The Doctors never made it that far. Its last episode was New Year’s Eve 1982.
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"squat to squat and a half"</The Critic>
I got that reference! I don't even want to think how long ago that was.