The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Card Shark on April 27, 2020, 11:22:45 PM
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In comparing the sets of NBC CS vs. 1986, had an odd questions about the respective sets. Why, when it was revived in ‘86, wasn’t the set similar? The set on the perry version was glitzy, and the deck of cards walls gave a casino-themed feel. How did they go from that to red aces right and left when the show was revived? I know everyone has their opinions and this is just that. But it seemed boring. Is there anyone on here who was connected/worked for Goodson-Todman, etc., that can provide insight? Was it a drastic change because of a difference in the style of the decade? A budgetary reason? A combo?
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In comparing the sets of NBC CS vs. 1986, had an odd questions about the respective sets. Why, when it was revived in ‘86, wasn’t the set similar? The set on the perry version was glitzy, and the deck of cards walls gave a casino-themed feel.
I think it can be simply summed up by this: it was a different time.
Sets, like fashion, change with the times. Think about how different Wheel of Fortune's look and feel is in 1980 vs 1988. Using the '78 Card Sharks set in '86 sutomatically makes the show feel somewhat dated.
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I think it can be simply summed up by this: it was a different time.
Sets, like fashion, change with the times. Think about how different Wheel of Fortune's look and feel is in 1980 vs 1988. Using the '78 Card Sharks set in '86 sutomatically makes the show feel somewhat dated.
And two different set designers too. Goodson's team seemed to be going minimalist by this point, with the Body Language set being even more stark.
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I think it can be simply summed up by this: it was a different time.
Sets, like fashion, change with the times. Think about how different Wheel of Fortune's look and feel is in 1980 vs 1988. Using the '78 Card Sharks set in '86 sutomatically makes the show feel somewhat dated.
And two different set designers too. Goodson's team seemed to be going minimalist by this point, with the Body Language set being even more stark.
Or, if you want to make a comparison of twin shows, look at the Passwords of the era. Password Plus? Giant sign, bands of color everywhere, actual displays for Alphabetics, and unintentional swastikas everywhere (don't look at me, that's how they were once described). Super Password? Very little signage, lots of white angled pieces, a TV screen for The Endgame.
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Not only different designers, but different networks... perhaps CBS didn't have the technology to have the more elaborate mechanical set of the original Card Sharks. If anything, Goodson had enough confidence in his games that the game was the star of the show, not its set with several moving parts and lights.
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I would say studio and storage space are more likely reasons than technical capabilities.
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Not only different designers, but different networks... perhaps CBS didn't have the technology to have the more elaborate mechanical set of the original Card Sharks.
I'd argue against this, only because that's like speculating that Samsung, in 2020, is having trouble finding a way to fit the technology of an iPhone 5 into one of their flagship phones. The Card Sharks '78 set was a lot of chase lights and mechanical pieces on tracks, neither of which represents a huge techological leap of that time, at least to my knowledge.
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TBH, I always liked the CBS set better, but the NBC set has the better logo.
The ABC set is amazing...i wish we could see it more in action.
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I agree that the CBS Card Sharks set was dull. I wonder if budget was an issue. If Goodson got CBS to buy Card Sharks to make up for increased expenses on TPIR, it'd follow they'd cut a few corners. The red aces were a bad stylistic decision besides.
Password Plus had a lame set. Match Game's '78 set was designed around the same time and had way more style. Password All-Stars looked much hipper despite it being older.
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Not only different designers, but different networks... perhaps CBS didn't have the technology to have the more elaborate mechanical set of the original Card Sharks.
I'd argue against this, only because that's like speculating that Samsung, in 2020, is having trouble finding a way to fit the technology of an iPhone 5 into one of their flagship phones.
Didn't the iPhone 5 have a headphone jack?
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I agree that the CBS Card Sharks set was dull. I wonder if budget was an issue. If Goodson got CBS to buy Card Sharks to make up for increased expenses on TPIR, it'd follow they'd cut a few corners. The red aces were a bad stylistic decision besides.
IMO, Card Sharks has never had an outstanding set, because every set has had wasted empty space. That being said, I thought the '86 version had the most well designed set pieces of any version.
Password Plus had a lame set. Match Game's '78 set was designed around the same time and had way more style.
I thought MG'78 had the worst set of any version. I understand wanting to update their set because it surely was dated. But the orange shag clashed with the redesigned set pieces and made everything look worse.
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I think it can be simply summed up by this: it was a different time.
Sets, like fashion, change with the times. Think about how different Wheel of Fortune's look and feel is in 1980 vs 1988. Using the '78 Card Sharks set in '86 sutomatically makes the show feel somewhat dated.
And two different set designers too. Goodson's team seemed to be going minimalist by this point, with the Body Language set being even more stark.
I'd go with this. But by 1986, it seems a lot of sets got away from the glitziness from the 70s.
Although I do agree there was a lot of dead space on the Eubanks set, I actually liked the Aces, esp. when they tilted for the Money Cards. They definitely needed something for the empty space that eventually housed the car.
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I thought MG'78 had the worst set of any version. I understand wanting to update their set because it surely was dated. But the orange shag clashed with the redesigned set pieces and made everything look worse.
I remember Brett Somers making a crack about the updated set looking like a Confederate flag. It's almost like James Agazzi intended to do a full redesign but something came up along the way - perhaps the Card Sharks set?
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See now i'm kinda surprised by this - I always thought the NBC Card Sharks set was well valued as one of the best sets....ever. To me, it still is.
CBS was lacking - just plain. By then, was the GT motif less on turntables and more on swinging pieces into view (MG/HS, Blockbusters 87, Classic C)....
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I always like the CBS set it was bright and simple.
The ABC version set is just too large it has a Deal or no Deal feeling to it.
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Who would expect a production company to hold an entire set in storage for a few years after news of a phantom syndicated run fizzled and there was no news of CBS wanting companions to Price is Right and $25,000 Pyramid? I can't imagine that the same company that head been responsible for hit after hit for decades would have to scrimp on the set for budgetary reasons but I wasn't there.
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Password Plus had a lame set.
What didn't you like about it?
At one point we made a significant change to the set — not the Alphabetics board. Do you know what that change was? Then we made another change but that one is kind of obvious.
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Was the TattleTales set completely rebuilt in 1982? The area where the stars sat looked different from the 70s set, but everything else looked pretty much exactly as it had been. I imagine none of that was hard to reproduce, but having it stored would have saved money and time.
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Password Plus had a lame set.
What didn't you like about it?
At one point we made a significant change to the set — not the Alphabetics board. Do you know what that change was? Then we made another change but that one is kind of obvious.
Was it a change other then the Password Puzzle board?
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At one point we made a significant change to the set — not the Alphabetics board. Do you know what that change was? Then we made another change but that one is kind of obvious.
Is it the subtle repainting of the "plus" walls?
For the first year or a little past it, everything looks like it was painted a consistent, slightly off-white tone. At some point in January or February 1980, the wall backgrounds become a darker gray. The top levels of the "filled" plusses seem to have kept their original color, while the lower levels (which includes the "empty" plusses) are intermediate between off-white and gray.
At first I wondered if the plusses had been rearranged, but comparing the earliest weeks with the latest don't seem to bear that out.
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At one point we made a significant change to the set — not the Alphabetics board.
Disconnecting the power to the yellow and red light borders? <ducking>
It looked like at one time there was a recessed area on either side of the password display. By the position of it, was it supposed to be a classic Password style score display? At some point, I believe they were covered up entirely.
The obvious change you alluded to was the puzzle board on the other end of the set.
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What didn't you like about it?
At one point we made a significant change to the set — not the Alphabetics board. Do you know what that change was? Then we made another change but that one is kind of obvious.
Red-yellow-blue doesn’t work. The neon was wasted behind the colored sheets. Despite the plus motif, the white walls just looked flat. The red staircases were nothing special. The desk was big and awkward besides being carpeted. The logo looked amateurish. None of this look had the “class” Ludden said Password had.
Was the change the checked border on the puzzle board? That didn’t fit at all.
I hope I didn’t offend you, Chris. I assume you weren’t involved with the set and art direction.
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At one point we made a significant change to the set — not the Alphabetics board. Do you know what that change was? Then we made another change but that one is kind of obvious.
Is it the subtle repainting of the "plus" walls?
For the first year or a little past it, everything looks like it was painted a consistent, slightly off-white tone. At some point in January or February 1980, the wall backgrounds become a darker gray. The top levels of the "filled" plusses seem to have kept their original color, while the lower levels (which includes the "empty" plusses) are intermediate between off-white and gray.
At first I wondered if the plusses had been rearranged, but comparing the earliest weeks with the latest don't seem to bear that out.
Yes, that was it. Good eye! No rearranging; just a paint job.
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the checked border on the puzzle board? That didn’t fit at all.
I agree. The first puzzle board was designed by Bente Christensen, the second by Dennis Roof. I never liked the second puzzle board with those silly checks.
The projector for the stage left game board was up on a "tower". We started having trouble with that projector and we got a lot of fan noise from it, so it was replaced with art cards.
Also, they wanted to duplicate the dimensions of the original Password desk from New York.
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Sorry if you've answered this before, Chris, but why was the decision made to change the Alphabetics board from the hanging sign to the wall after the first week or two of shows? Was it always planned that way and the wall just wasn't ready in time?
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Sorry if you've answered this before, Chris, but why was the decision made to change the Alphabetics board from the hanging sign to the wall after the first week or two of shows? Was it always planned that way and the wall just wasn't ready in time?
Didn't someone hit their head on the board while crossing over there or something like that?
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It looked like at one time there was a recessed area on either side of the password display. By the position of it, was it supposed to be a classic Password style score display? At some point, I believe they were covered up entirely.
I just went back to the premiere week to see what you're referring too, and now I can't unsee them. If that was the case, the score behind the contestants was definitely the right change.
Red-yellow-blue doesn’t work. The neon was wasted behind the colored sheets. Despite the plus motif, the white walls just looked flat. The red staircases were nothing special. The desk was big and awkward besides being carpeted. The logo looked amateurish. None of this look had the “class” Ludden said Password had.
Wow- tell us how you really feel.
Preferences aside, the primary color-heavy motif was popular at its time. I feel the same way about the oranges and tans of the Match Game set- not my ideal color scheme, but that's what was in.
Obviously Chris would know more, but I feel like everything they did with Password Plus was an effort to rid themselves of the stigma surrounding previous versions of Password.
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Decisions about the Alphabetics board were made by others before I went to work there.
It was decided not to move it to the stage-right wall until after the first 13-week cycle due to both time and cost.
There was no "stigma" associated with the old show. For some reason they decided to get away from words popping up out of the desk. For one thing, Alphabetics involved 10 words instead of the five of the old lightning round.
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For some reason they decided to get away from words popping up out of the desk. For one thing, Alphabetics involved 10 words instead of the five of the old lightning round.
Password is the only game show I can think of off the top of my head where the bonus round is played at home base. Every other game show I can think of involves moving to a different part of the set.
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^Hollywood Squares (Bergeron) before Nov. 2001 also comes to mind.
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Password is the only game show I can think of off the top of my head where the bonus round is played at home base. Every other game show I can think of involves moving to a different part of the set.
The only other ones that come to mind are High Rollers and You Bet Your Life (though the latter doesn't have much of a set to begin with).
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Password is the only game show I can think of off the top of my head where the bonus round is played at home base. Every other game show I can think of involves moving to a different part of the set.
The only other ones that come to mind are High Rollers and You Bet Your Life (though the latter doesn't have much of a set to begin with).
There were several others that come to mind. The first several bonus rounds of The Joker’s Wild on CBS were played with the player sitting at their podium to spin the prize reels and the joker/devil reels. Face the Music’s Championship game was played in the same area as the 3 prior games. The jackpot clock on the 50s Beat the Clock was played right behind the home base.
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Final Jeopardy!
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why was the decision made to change the Alphabetics board from the hanging sign to the wall after the first week or two of shows? Was it always planned that way and the wall just wasn't ready in time?
I can only speculate, but it seems like it would be a lot more efficient to have the Alphabetics board behind the wall, where it could be changed out of sight while the front game was being played. In the early days when the board flew in and out, I would imagine that there had to be a somewhat significant stop during each commercial after a bonus round was played in order to load the next set of words. Plus, either some kind of barrier would have to be brought in or the celebrities and contestant would have to be taken offstage somewhere to prevent them from seeing what was being changed.
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For some reason they decided to get away from words popping up out of the desk. For one thing, Alphabetics involved 10 words instead of the five of the old lightning round.
Password is the only game show I can think of off the top of my head where the bonus round is played at home base. Every other game show I can think of involves moving to a different part of the set.
The earliest episodes of The Joker's Wild on CBS had the champs remain in their area while they were still trying to find their Bonus Game.
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Password is the only game show I can think of off the top of my head where the bonus round is played at home base. Every other game show I can think of involves moving to a different part of the set.
The Moneymaze?
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The "Big Deal" if you consider it a bonus round.
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There was no "stigma" associated with the old show. For some reason they decided to get away from words popping up out of the desk.
On the subject of the old show, a question that came to mind as I have been perusing the earliest episodes of Password Plus lately: One Password staple of yore that was gone by this point was an intellect of the likes of Dr. Reason A. Goodwin or Robert Stockwell as the "authority". Why was role of judge downgraded, if you will, to the producer?
/Though I have wondered how G-T or any of these packagers ever got such intellectuals on staff. Seems a bit out of their league for linguist with a doctorate or a tenured university professor to be a judge on a "bread and circus" affair such as a game show, no?
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it could be changed out of sight while the front game was being played. In the early days when the board flew in and out, I would imagine that there had to be a somewhat significant stop during each commercial after a bonus round was played in order to load the next set of words.
Wow, that's a lot of water under the bridge.
We didn't stop tape. A barrier was flown in and the board was changed during the main game with everyone at the desk.
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Password is the only game show I can think of off the top of my head where the bonus round is played at home base. Every other game show I can think of involves moving to a different part of the set.
Some from the 60s, Password’s era: The original Match Game, You Don’t Say!, Get the Message, The Face Is Familiar. I think Pyramid was the first to move to a special area.
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I think Pyramid was the first to move to a special area.
Split Second and its set, well...splitting, predates Pyramid by a year.
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/Though I have wondered how G-T or any of these packagers ever got such intellectuals on staff. Seems a bit out of their league for linguist with a doctorate or a tenured university professor to be a judge on a "bread and circus" affair such as a game show, no?
Different social mores involving work in this field- note that Mason Gross was the provost at Rutgers parallel with his work on Two For The Money, where in certain regards he was more the quizmaster than Herb Shriner was.
In terms of the shift, I have to wonder how much of it parallels similar shifts (newscasters no longer working as hosts, changes in the nature of the celebrities on game shows) that we've noticed before being present during the 1960s and 1970s- it does that changes in the image of the genre mattered a lot.
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TBH, I always liked the CBS set better, but the NBC set has the better logo.
It was a good set, but I hated having the money amount for the Money Cards superimposed. Should've had a podium a la the NBC version.
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TBH, I always liked the CBS set better, but the NBC set has the better logo.
It was a good set, but I hated having the money amount for the Money Cards superimposed. Should've had a podium a la the NBC version.
That ,and going from Automatic to Manual Freeze Bars just screamed "CHEAP".
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...I hated having the money amount for the Money Cards superimposed. Should've had a podium a la the NBC version.
That ,and going from Automatic to Manual Freeze Bars just screamed "CHEAP".
I heartily agree.
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Split Second and its set, well...splitting...
After 45 years, that's how the end game relates to the rest of the show!
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I always thought the word experts were a way to get a sponsor plug in for the dictionary companies.
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It was a good set, but I hated having the money amount for the Money Cards superimposed. Should've had a podium a la the NBC version.
I completely agree, very weird just leaving a contestant out in free space without the host there. Off the top of my head, I can't think of another show that doesn't have some physical set/prop or the host to keep the contestant in place. Even on Body Language, where a contestant is allowed to roam in the acting area, it was still a sunken floor to put a boundary area up.
The other quibble I had with the CBS Card Sharks set is with all of the rolling parts, they still could not obscure the backside of the 3-card draw prop in the wide shots of the front game.