The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: colonial on November 18, 2019, 12:54:17 PM
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2019/11/18/jeopardy-james-holzhauer-ken-jennings-brad-rutter-duel-abc/4201669002/
— Each episode consists of two full games, whoever wins the most points in each episode wins the match.
— First to win three episodes wins $1M. Runners up get $250K each.
— starts January 7 and can run from 3-7 days. Airs every night but Monday, as “The Bachelor” cannot be pre-empted for any reason (at least that’s what fans told me :) ).
JD
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— starts January 7 and can run from 3-7 days. Airs every night but Monday, as “The Bachelor” cannot be pre-empted for any reason (at least that’s what fans told me :) ).
Having worked for an ABC affiliate, I can confirm this is true. You don’t mess with their Bachelor or DWTS. :P
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Well then, there's your answer as to the next mega-duel. They couldn't wait another four years?
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The shows tape early next month. My question is how will they keep it from becoming a spoiler by simply knowing how many episodes it runs?
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Well then, there's your answer as to the next mega-duel. They couldn't wait another four years?
Sorry to sound.grim, but there's a part of me wondering if this tournament will be Trebek's swan song, and he will announce his retirement at the end of the tourney?
JD
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That's my thinking too. Ideally you wait a year or so, but I don't think they really have that luxury with Trebek at this point.
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The shows tape early next month. My question is how will they keep it from becoming a spoiler by simply knowing how many episodes it runs?
My guess is that like the World Series (or other best-of-7 playoff series), the episodes will be scheduled "if needed."
I'll bet these tapings will be closed and the audience will be by invite only, similar to the All-Star Tourney.
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I also took it as Alex’s farewell tour, esp. given his recent interview regarding his health.
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I think the combination of the network primetime slot, Alex's health, and James winning the ToC last week was too much to resist for them doing it now...
And I wonder how far along they're in the regular season tapings? If Alex does have to leave in the middle of the season, do they have enough of a buffer to announce a replacement (I suspect they've had some unofficial talks with people) and get them up to speed with everything?
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Check out James' Twitter. That's all I'm gonna say.
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Check out James' Twitter. That's all I'm gonna say.
I did. Now what was the point?
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I know they do two-game total score for scheduling reasons and have for years, but I think it mucks up the game play. Since this tourney is open-ended, I'd rather they played two regular games each show (doubleheader day!) and increase the games needed to win.
It does seem easy enough to plug in Press Your Luck or whatever to fill the time slots they don't use.
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I know they do two-game total score for scheduling reasons and have for years, but I think it mucks up the game play.
Unsurprisingly, I disagree wholeheartedly. I think it makes the first FJ wagering really interesting, because it is distinctly different than the wagering strategy for a single game, which at this point has been reduced to a simple math / second guessing exercise.
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Check out James' Twitter. That's all I'm gonna say.
I did. Now what was the point?
You missed it, I suppose.
But maybe you're not the intended audience (I mean that in a noninsulting way, seriously).
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Sorry to sound.grim, but there's a part of me wondering if this tournament will be Trebek's swan song, and he will announce his retirement at the end of the tourney?
I can't imagine that he (or the producers) would want to take the focus off the winner at the end of the final episode of the tournament.
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I know they do two-game total score for scheduling reasons and have for years, but I think it mucks up the game play.
Unsurprisingly, I disagree wholeheartedly. I think it makes the first FJ wagering really interesting, because it is distinctly different than the wagering strategy for a single game, which at this point has been reduced to a simple math / second guessing exercise.
True--every time Neumms tries to fix something that isn't broken it does end up worse than the original article.
First thing: Given the speed of play and the fact that we know these guys it does seem like the primo time to tweak the game some since we have the three heaviest hitters ever. Throw a Triple Jeopardy round into game two. Have some sort of halftime event--something so that we're not just watching two episodes of Jeopardy. (that said it does mean I can basically bang this out in thirty minutes.
Thing two: this is a lot of Jeopardy. I love Jeopardy as much as anyone, but when you add this to the episode that will air in the access hour that's three episodes a day--assuming that people do watch the OG show it will immediately be overshadowed. I would love it if ABC put the show on Saturday like Super Jeopardy almost thirty years ago and run it every week until it concludes, but I get that there are other issues with that.
Other thing--I kinda wish that the All-Stars had the older guys like Chuck Forrest, Bob Blake, Officer Frank and Lesek Pawlowicz as team captain along with the second decade's big winners rather than having the player reaching back the farthest being Pam Mueller. I think it gives short shrift to some of the recent TOC winners like Roger Craig, Buzzy Cohen and Alex Jacob (there's how you fill out the episodes--bring back TOC winners to play an exhibition game.)
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A very minute peek at the GOAT studio setup on tonight's primetime Jeopardy documentary/promotion indicates it'll be straight-up points on the board, not "dollars." The set looks beautiful, and it looks like the game board graphics got a slight update.
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Here's a promo from 20/20's Twitter (https://twitter.com/ABC2020/status/1212467277703962624). I agree that the prime time set looks awesome.
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Agreed, and I wouldn't mind them trotting this version out for ToCs in the future.
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I’m not sure if this means anything, but the DirecTV listings only shows 4 dates
1/7, 1/8, 1/9, and 1/14
So maybe the first person to win 2 games will ultimately be the winner?
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How far out do your listings reach normally?
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How far out do your listings reach normally?
Usually 2 weeks. I see other shows up to 1/18
DirecTV has been known to spoil shows before with their descriptions. But I believe those descriptions come from the channel directly.
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So maybe the first person to win 2 games will ultimately be the winner?
Don't think so:
https://abc.com/shows/jeopardy-the-greatest-of-all-time/video/most-recent/vdka15413451
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I find it interesting we've been given a format, and when suggested that something happens that could plausibly occur under that format the first instinct is to assume the format is wrong.
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I wouldn't read too much into what the listings are saying right now. That's basically the same way ABC handles the listings for the NBA Finals -- pencils sitcom reruns or other programming in as placeholders for the nights of Games 5-7, until those games become necessary.
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So maybe the first person to win 2 games will ultimately be the winner?
Don't think so:
https://abc.com/shows/jeopardy-the-greatest-of-all-time/video/most-recent/vdka15413451
I know it’s 3 games.
I was referring to the listings, which if correct, only show 4 games.
So if that’s correct, it’s plausible that one person wins the first two nights, loses the 3rd, and wins the 4th. Then by elimination, the person who won the first two games wins.
But it all depends on the accuracy of the listings.
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Unsurprisingly, I disagree wholeheartedly. I think it makes the first FJ wagering really interesting, because it is distinctly different than the wagering strategy for a single game, which at this point has been reduced to a simple math / second guessing exercise.
True--every time Neumms tries to fix something that isn't broken it does end up worse than the original article.
First thing: Given the speed of play and the fact that we know these guys it does seem like the primo time to tweak the game some since we have the three heaviest hitters ever. Throw a Triple Jeopardy round into game two. Have some sort of halftime event--something so that we're not just watching two episodes of Jeopardy.
I see your point, Chris. I'd like it if they put the previous game's scores on the lecterns so it's easier to follow.
Speaking of fixing something that isn't broken, Triple Jeopardy? So you're hoping to diminish the importance of the first game and the first round of the second? And you're looking for a stunt in what should be the purest competition?
For halftime, are you thinking Beyonce? Maybe Tony Bennett to hit their usual demographic? Or is it more of an NBA halftime, with the couple that changes clothes really fast or the woman who balances plates on her head?
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How about let's not overanalyze things and spoil the crap out of it for those of us who just want to sit back and enjoy it?
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I wouldn't read too much into what the listings are saying right now. That's basically the same way ABC handles the listings for the NBA Finals -- pencils sitcom reruns or other programming in as placeholders for the nights of Games 5-7, until those games become necessary.
Exactly. The folks at ABC are treating this as if it were a live event.
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So any predictions? I'm thinking James in 5 games (3-1-1).
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Rutter in 4 or 5. Either Brad or Ken can play James' game and do it just as well as he does, if not better. His advantages fade a lot going up against those two.
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Brad wins these tourneys vs. humans every time. Brad 3, James 2, Ken 1.
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ESPN: Did 'Jeopardy!' GOAT champ get leaked? Offshore books say yes (https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/28429258/did-jeopardy-goat-champ-get-leaked-offshore-books-say-yes)
No spoilers in the article -- contestants are referred to as "X" and "Y".
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Rutter in 4 or 5. Either Brad or Ken can play James' game and do it just as well as he does, if not better. His advantages fade a lot going up against those two.
This is more or less how I arrived at Brad in five as well. The knowledge base among all three participants is sound--even if James prepped by reading kids versions of the books you don't win a Tournament of Champions scoring $75k in the finals on a fluke. Brad's reaction time is unparalleled and that makes all the difference at this level.
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No spoilers, but the set really does look great, esp. when the lights are dimmed. Looking at Final Jeopardy!, the set reminds me of a planetarium.
I also like the theme music they use here...very majestic, as you might imagine.
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I also like the theme music they use here...very majestic, as you might imagine.
The theme was good, but I didn't like this version of the Think music. Alex kind of nailed it when he talked about feeling like the time passed more quickly than normal.
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Okay, that's weird. I thought the main theme was odd but loved Final. Sounded very news-y.
The set does look amazing.
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The theme was good, but I didn't like this version of the Think music. Alex kind of nailed it when he talked about feeling like the time passed more quickly than normal.
I could see that. Once Alex mentioned it, I started wondering was it really 30 seconds. :P
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After thinking about it a bit more, I think my dislike comes from how frenetic it is. For those of us at home, the 30 second clock on FJ is pretty contemplative. We just have to challenge ourselves to think of the answer, and there's nothing riding on it. Tonight's music made it feel like a race against the clock, and we aren't really along with the contestants on that race because we don't know what they're writing until afterwards.
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Tonight's music made it feel like a race against the clock, and we aren't really along with the contestants on that race because we don't know what they're writing until afterwards.
Uhhhhh, do we ever know what they are writing until afterwards?
JakeT
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Tonight's music made it feel like a race against the clock, and we aren't really along with the contestants on that race because we don't know what they're writing until afterwards.
Uhhhhh, do we ever know what they are writing until afterwards?
Uhhhhh, what on earth gave you the impression that I was implying that there has ever been a time when we knew what they were writing? It was pretty central to my point that we don't know and haven't known and that's why the slower feel of the more traditional arrangements feels more appropriate.
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I'm in the camp of "yes to the prime time theme, but I don't like the more intense think music."
I know this isn't a bold new insight, but a tournament like this really underscores how a top-level game of Jeopardy! hinges on only four clues (the three Daily Doubles and Final Jeopardy!). The rest of the game is just there to determine how much the trivia experts will be risking when they go either all in or nearly all in.
I was worried that James would run away with this tournament because he has youth and reflexes on his side, but I'm happy to see that all three players are up to the challenge. This should be fun.
(I do wonder whether watching a glossy, somewhat emotional package immediately before playing the second Double Jeopardy! will have a negative impact on the featured player of each night.)
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Disagree on the FJ theme, and it's now my ringtone.
It sounds a bit faster because of the background notes which are fast-paced 16th notes, but the speed is still the same. The main theme is amazing.
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Disagree on the FJ theme, and it's now my ringtone.
It sounds a bit faster because of the background notes which are fast-paced 16th notes, but the speed is still the same. The main theme is amazing.
Agreed 100%. Could you share please?
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Wow....first night ratings are in- and the fast nationals are off the charts...
http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/the-sked-tuesday-network-scorecard-1-7-2020.html
14.36 million viewers, 2.4 in the 18-49 demo..
(I thought it'd do OK, but it beat NCIS by a ton- wonder if it'll hold up in night 2?)
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Wow....first night ratings are in- and the fast nationals are off the charts...
The demo shares are the real story here. Jeopardy (and to a degree, all game shows) takes a hit for skewing "too old," but that sure wasn't the case last night. Total dominance with the under-50 crowd as well as the over-50 crowd.
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Missed the first night - actually, I'll probably miss most nights (I'm in a new job, and I'm not home now until close to 8 PM Central time) - does anybody have a streaming link that isn't locked up? (I'm not worried about spoilers - somebody on my Facebook feed spoiled it early anyway.)
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Disagree on the FJ theme, and it's now my ringtone.
It sounds a bit faster because of the background notes which are fast-paced 16th notes, but the speed is still the same. The main theme is amazing.
Agreed 100%. Could you share please?
From Chad Mosher:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAopae-9Kgw&feature=youtu.be
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Disagree on the FJ theme, and it's now my ringtone.
It sounds a bit faster because of the background notes which are fast-paced 16th notes, but the speed is still the same. The main theme is amazing.
Agreed 100%. Could you share please?
https://youtu.be/jAopae-9Kgw
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I'm in a weird place with this; as a piece of music I adore it, but as the Final Jeopardy think music it feels just a little too busy musically for a 30 second think background.
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Slaughtered the timeslot and carried the network for the rest of the night. Wowsers. Wonder if ABC would be interested in, say, a 13-week prime time tournament over the summer.
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Slaughtered the timeslot and carried the network for the rest of the night. Wowsers. Wonder if ABC would be interested in, say, a 13-week prime time tournament over the summer.
I think any network would be interested in taking advantage of something like the Alex + James publicity firestorm...but I'm not holding my breath for that to happen again.
Really enjoyed what I saw last night, although I need to give it a second watch on the DVR to get the finer details.
-Jason
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This is probably like Celebrity Family Feud considered a different show from the syndicated to qualify for PrimeTime Emmys. I wonder how big a campaign ABC or Sony will make Alex for Best Reality or Competition Show host or the Tournament for Best Competition Show(Reality was dropped from award name last year)
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I'm in a weird place with this; as a piece of music I adore it, but as the Final Jeopardy think music it feels just a little too busy musically for a 30 second think background.
I think "too busy" best describes it and it is perhaps now a bit of a distraction to the players during those most-important 30 seconds...
JakeT
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Listening to it again, it sounds like background music for a Jeopardy! commercial, or one of the brief ads they do between the end of Double and Final J! It's catchy, but I agree a little out of place as think music. I think if they remove the percussion and synthesized 1/16 notes, it sounds more suitable here.
I may be in the minority, but being already like the main theme, it's growing on me more as a potential replacement for if/when they ever decide to update, even if it's not as fast-paced.
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Slaughtered the timeslot and carried the network for the rest of the night. Wowsers. Wonder if ABC would be interested in, say, a 13-week prime time tournament over the summer.
I think any network would be interested in taking advantage of something like the Alex + James publicity firestorm...but I'm not holding my breath for that to happen again.
I'm in the camp that nothing will happen, but I have to think someone in an important post spent today thinking of ways to keep J! in primetime.
Hell, in 2 years you could rehash Battle of the Decades into a Super Jeopardy format.
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While there are hopes of keeping "JEOPARDY!" in primetime, there is still the strong reality that the show won't survive that long past Alex...he has brought an atmosphere to that show that few can duplicate...
JakeT
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While there are hopes of keeping "JEOPARDY!" in primetime, there is still the strong reality that the show won't survive that long past Alex...he has brought an atmosphere to that show that few can duplicate...
I think you mean "possibility."
I agree that it's a possibility, but disagree with the adjective "strong." If this board had been around in 1984, I'm sure a good number of posters would be saying that the new version of J! wouldn't survive long without Art Fleming.
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I think people will embrace the eventual replacement. I mean, TPiR is still going strong with Drew Carey, and even he didn't expect to be there this long.
/That's right, there's middle schoolers who never saw Bob Barker host a new episode of The Price is Right
//You're welcome
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/That's right, there's middle schoolers who never saw Bob Barker host a new episode of The Price is Right
//You're welcome
That would be my future stepdaughter, just turned 13 and was 9 months old when Drew Carey began hosting.
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Two completely unrelated questions:
1) I understand that Brad was in the red at the end of the second game, and couldn't play FJ, but wouldn't it have been fair to subtract that negative amount from the first game to make his total? I realize in the end it didn't matter anyway, but still..
2) They say "weeknights" it will be on, but multiple TV listings sources list sitcoms in the 8pm hour for tomorrow night. What's the story there?
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If this board had been around in 1984, I'm sure a good number of posters would be saying that the new version of J! wouldn't survive long without Art Fleming.
Or that The Price Is Right isn't the same without Bill Cullen.
Or the probably very real examples you could find ten years ago of people who said that The Price Is Right won't survive without Bob Barker.
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/That's right, there's middle schoolers who never saw Bob Barker host a new episode of The Price is Right
//You're welcome
That would be my future stepdaughter, just turned 13 and was 9 months old when Drew Carey began hosting.
Yeah, my high school students are only vaguely aware that there was a guy before Drew Carey.
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1) I understand that Brad was in the red at the end of the second game, and couldn't play FJ, but wouldn't it have been fair to subtract that negative amount from the first game to make his total? I realize in the end it didn't matter anyway, but still..
I see how you could make that case, but I'm sure they planned for that possibility in the rules, plus they're always talking about a "two game final", in that the two games are distinct from one another. Going back and taking money (OK, fine, "points") away from a completed game isn't much different than going after Marge Simpson for the money she owed them by finishing in the red.
2) They say "weeknights" it will be on, but multiple TV listings sources list sitcoms in the 8pm hour for tomorrow night. What's the story there?
This isn't any different than the sporting events that Jeopardy is trying to emulate, such as the World Series or the NBA Finals. They only knew for sure that there would be three games played. Beyond that, it makes sense to post the regular programming schedule, which will be bumped accordingly as the event runs longer.
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I think the format that they came up with here was the best and most familiar format, given that it is the existing ToC finals format.
However, it is fun to think about other possible ways to run it. How about single, double, triple, quadruple? Four Daily Doubles in the final round! Madness!
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I think the format that they came up with here was the best and most familiar format, given that it is the existing ToC finals format.
However, it is fun to think about other possible ways to run it. How about single, double, triple, quadruple? Four Daily Doubles in the final round! Madness!
I agree; was just thinking about this idea last night too. What about using the Saudi format, where everything is more or less the same but a third, four-category, Triple-Jeopardy round is added? They could pad out the hour with other features and conversation, and everything wouldn't feel so rushed. Just speculation based on Ken's comments, but I'm guessing Alex and the contestants were all pretty winded after playing two intense back-to-back games like that.
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Night 2 ratings are in- about the same in demos (2.3 in 18-49), up in viewers (14.824 million viewers)- I wouldn't be shocked if it hits 15 million viewers tonight. Interesting that the 2nd half-hour had better demos than the first half-hour; I guess that's down to the format a bit...
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The second half peaked at over 15 million, per BuzzerBlog. Jeopardy! is bigger than the NBA Finals at this point.
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This isn't any different than the sporting events that Jeopardy is trying to emulate, such as the World Series or the NBA Finals. They only knew for sure that there would be three games played. Beyond that, it makes sense to post the regular programming schedule, which will be bumped accordingly as the event runs longer.
Looking at my on-screen guide (which I think is populated by Screener2It, or the other way around), the final four episodes (if there are four) will run next Tuesday through Friday.
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Looking at my on-screen guide (which I think is populated by Screener2It, or the other way around), the final four episodes (if there are four) will run next Tuesday through Friday.
OK, maybe I didn't understand things clearly. Are you saying that there won't be a show tomorrow no matter what, and games 4-7 (as needed) will all air next week? That certainly wasn't how I originally understood it was going to run, but maybe I wasn't paying super close attention.
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If this board had been around in 1984, I'm sure a good number of posters would be saying that the new version of J! wouldn't survive long without Art Fleming.
Or that The Price Is Right isn't the same without Bill Cullen.
Or the probably very real examples you could find ten years ago of people who said that The Price Is Right won't survive without Bob Barker.
I remember in the results of your 1st greatest game show poll, you said Monty Hall was Let's Make a Deal and they should stop trying to revive because it does not work without him.
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This is probably like Celebrity Family Feud considered a different show from the syndicated to qualify for PrimeTime Emmys. I wonder how big a campaign ABC or Sony will make Alex for Best Reality or Competition Show host or the Tournament for Best Competition Show(Reality was dropped from award name last year)
I wonder whether it would qualify. Last year's rules (https://www.emmys.com/sites/default/files/Downloads/2019-rules-procedures-v6.pdf) say that a qualifying entrant has to be a series of at least six episodes or a special. If this tournament ends before six episodes, does airing over multiple nights still qualify as a "special"?
I may be in the minority, but being already like the main theme, it's growing on me more as a potential replacement for if/when they ever decide to update, even if it's not as fast-paced.
Much in the same way the show still busts out the Rock & Roll Jeopardy! theme for the weeks it has youths as contestants, I wouldn't mind if they used this theme exclusively for Tournaments of Champions and other special occasions.
They could pad out the hour with other features and conversation, and everything wouldn't feel so rushed. Just speculation based on Ken's comments, but I'm guessing Alex and the contestants were all pretty winded after playing two intense back-to-back games like that.
I don't think these specials have felt rushed. With the extra time that prime time provides, there have been opportunities for more long video clues and even some brief, good-natured banter between the contestants. And Alex has yet to give the "less than a minute" warning.
Do we know how many episodes of this were taped each day? A Jeopardy! contestant who becomes champion on a Monday episode may have to play up to five half-hours' worth of the game in one day. I know that it's a little tougher when the competition consists of two of the other best contestants of all time and more difficult material, but fatigue shouldn't be an issue yet.
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Looking at my on-screen guide (which I think is populated by Screener2It, or the other way around), the final four episodes (if there are four) will run next Tuesday through Friday.
OK, maybe I didn't understand things clearly. Are you saying that there won't be a show tomorrow no matter what, and games 4-7 (as needed) will all air next week? That certainly wasn't how I originally understood it was going to run, but maybe I wasn't paying super close attention.
Nick looked up the booking info sent to stations from ABC and this Friday as well as Tuesday-Thursday of next week are listed as the "if necessary" dates. So there should be an episode tomorrow night, which means you may need to pay extra attention to your DVRs to make sure they pick it up.
EDIT: There was an updated booking notice sent down right before Christmas. It's not on this Friday after all. The "if necessary" dates are Tues-Fri of next week.
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I remember in the results of your 1st greatest game show poll, you said Monty Hall was Let's Make a Deal and they should stop trying to revive because it does not work without him.
Owning it! In 2006, I said:
At some point, after all the Billy Bushes and Ricki Lakes get through with it, we'll all realize that this show is Monty Hall, Monty Hall is this show, and no one should ever try to remake it ever again.
This proves that I can be wrong, at least once every fourteen years!
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I dunno who said it, but once upon a time, folks also said remaking “Match Game” and “The Gong Show” would be like trying to capture lightning in a bottle. They were halfway right. :P
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Do we know how many episodes of this were taped each day?
Schedule had 2 a day.
-Jason
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I dunno who said it, but once upon a time, folks also said remaking “Match Game” and “The Gong Show” would be like trying to capture lightning in a bottle. They were halfway right. :P
That's me (more or less). From an uncamark post in 2007:
As Curt has often said about "The Gong Show," "MG '73" was lightning-in-a-bottle that would be hard to duplicate.
I don't think I pictured Alec Baldwin being Match Game's savior at that point.
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I'm the one who said game shows were too niche of a thing for people to post episodes of on YouTube, so, erm, checkmate? :)
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I dunno who said it, but once upon a time, folks also said remaking “Match Game” and “The Gong Show” would be like trying to capture lightning in a bottle. They were halfway right. :P
That's me (more or less). From an uncamark post in 2007:
As Curt has often said about "The Gong Show," "MG '73" was lightning-in-a-bottle that would be hard to duplicate.
I don't think I pictured Alec Baldwin being Match Game's savior at that point.
Now it's coming back to me. I think you made that observation on your Game Shows '75 page. But in all fairness, a lot of the MG revivals, even MG/HS Hour, failed to capture what made the 70s version worked. And that was at a time when Pearson/Fremantle didn't seem to know what made the classics work either.
Having a few of us geeks on the staff made a huge difference.
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Wrong predictions aside, did anyone see Barker announcing his retirement in 2006?
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Do we know how many episodes of this were taped each day?
Schedule had 2 a day.
-Jason
That seems consistent with what Ken described during his interview on Wednesday.
NB: I was able to find a list of the 100 most watched shows of last season. Forget the NBA, Jeopardy is more popular than football. (https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2019/tv/news/most-watched-tv-shows-highest-rated-2018-2019-season-game-of-thrones-1203222287/amp/)
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I'm the one who said game shows were too niche of a thing for people to post episodes of on YouTube, so, erm, checkmate? :)
To be fair, that was probably before we realized there's literally nothing that people won't post on YouTube.
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To be fair, that was probably before we realized there's literally nothing that people won't post on YouTube.
I can confirm this to be true after searching the words “lint belly button.”
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I think that match three is the first time I remember seeing all three contestants risking it all in the first FJ of a two-game match.
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Dammit...I have to be smart enough not to hover over the spoiler...
Damn damn damn...
My bad...and my thanks for not revealing any more than you did...
JakeT
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Among the many interesting bits about this tournament is the effect of the longer, often-celeb-read clues. A perhaps unforeseen challenge in playing them is managing to remember at the end just what the heck was actually being asked about. The Audible audiobooks category in particular was tough for that reason, for me. In this specific scenario, it comes across more as a welcome challenge than not, IMO, but interesting nonetheless.
-Jason
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Anyone think the reason why ABC changed the original schedule (which had an episode tonight- but they changed it after they had taped everything) to not having the next episode until next Tuesday is that ABC wanted the extra promo time if it wasn't a sweep? For example, I have a hunch ESPN is going to have James on this weekend to give his thoughts on the CFP Championship game (and hype game 4 on Tuesday)..
And frankly, I'm a bit shocked Brad is doing so poorly- don't know if he's just not buzzing in quick enough or he's having terrible luck on DD's....
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Anyone think the reason why ABC changed the original schedule (which had an episode tonight- but they changed it after they had taped everything) to not having the next episode until next Tuesday is that ABC wanted the extra promo time if it wasn't a sweep?
Absolutely. This has succeeded beyond everybody's expectations, and they're jockeying for a way to milk it for all they can. Friday is traditionally an underperforming day of the week. I would go so far as to say -- and this is not a spoiler because I have absolutely no idea -- that if I was ABC's programmer, and I knew that Ken was going to win the next game and the championship, this is exactly what I would do with that episode.
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And frankly, I'm a bit shocked Brad is doing so poorly- don't know if he's just not buzzing in quick enough or he's having terrible luck on DD's....
He's been getting tons of DD's - 9 of the 18 thus far, in fact - but he's only gotten 4 of them right. And the ones he is getting right aren't helping him because he's falling into too deep of a hole (he got both DD's right in the DJ! round yesterday but was still well behind Ken's score in that game, let alone the gap he had to cover from the first one).
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He's been getting tons of DD's - 9 of the 18 thus far, in fact - but he's only gotten 4 of them right. And the ones he is getting right aren't helping him because he's falling into too deep of a hole (he got both DD's right in the DJ! round yesterday but was still well behind Ken's score in that game, let alone the gap he had to cover from the first one).
I'll add to this that Brad has had the "unfortunate" luck of hitting these DDs very early in the rounds as well. The entire tournament may have changed if Brad hit these DDs later on in the matches, and of course, got them right.
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The vibe I get is that Brad didn't do _nearly_ as much homework as the other two leading into this. (And, really, four and a half million bucks later, why should he - it would almost look bad if he walked in and won *this* one too.) Ken worked on his buzzer timings (and studied up on Basic Jeopardy Facts) and James is the freshest of the three in terms of game experience.
The DDs are going to continue to be hit early, for the most part, by necessity, as everyone realizes that James is going to aggressively fish for them and the only counterattack for that is to fish yourself to keep them away from him. Anyone whose game depends on a big DD swing is going to have problems.
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I'll add to this that Brad has had the "unfortunate" luck of hitting these DDs very early in the rounds as well. The entire tournament may have changed if Brad hit these DDs later on in the matches, and of course, got them right.
This doesn't really add to the point, but I noticed on a couple of occasions, the Daily Double was the first clue selected in the Double Jeopardy! round, with the second being found a few clues later. Obviously coincidence, but a very odd one, IMO.
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This doesn't really add to the point, but I noticed on a couple of occasions, the Daily Double was the first clue selected in the Double Jeopardy! round, with the second being found a few clues later. Obviously coincidence, but a very odd one, IMO.
That said, the odds of it happening go way up when it's virtually guaranteed that the first twelve clues of the round are the bottom two rows of the board.
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Robert Mills announced on his twitter that they’re going to rerun the first 3 eps this Saturday (8-11 EST) if you missed them or aren’t interested in the Ravens/Titans game...
https://twitter.com/millsy11374/status/1215729189833232384?s=21
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Meanwhile, the tournament's ratings (https://twitter.com/JimmyTraina/status/1215693501456953355) increased every night, and each airing outperformed Games 1 of last year's NBA Finals, Stanley Cup, and World Series. Granted, the first two aired in June, so they might get a bit of a free pass.
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Methinks because ABC's programmers know the results already and have done this moving around to keep the buzz around the show lasting through the weekend and into next Tuesday, Ken takes it in 4.
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Regarding Brad's performance: I wrote this on another board after Wednesday's match.
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I don't want to lapse into a Ringer longform here, but Brad Rutter's performance in these first two matches really showcases the fragile and ephemeral nature of peak human ability. This is a guy who has won dang near $5 million playing Jeopardy, beating all comers repeatedly, save for a computer specifically designed to beat him. Going into the tourney, I had him taking it in 4 or 5. He's basically the same age I am, and clearly in better physical shape than I am. But, just like when you see it with a veteran athlete, it seems like he longer has the ability to hit that highest gear, both with his brain and with his twitch reflexes on the buzzer. Jennings and Holzhauer are blowing him away - Rutter finished last night's second game with a score you really don't see outside of Celebrity Jeopardy.
I have no doubt Brad could still walk into your local upper-tier pub quiz and pants everybody, and he could likely roll off a string of wins against the standard pool of everyday Jeopardy contestants. But that ability to win at the highest level just seems gone, and I don't know if it's possible to get that back once that fades. It's given some added weight to how I feel about not nailing as many answers on the show as I think I should, or the gradual but consistent increase in my forgetting of things I need to find or do.
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I don't know how long before airing the All-Stars event was recorded and I didn't track Brad's statistics specifically but I recall his team won in more or less a route. Easy win in the semi-finals and a fairly easy romp to victory in the final as well. Whatever degradation happened either was masked by his teammates or non-existent until after that.
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I don't know how long before airing the All-Stars event was recorded and I didn't track Brad's statistics specifically but I recall his team won in more or less a route.
The teams for the All-Star Games were chosen in September '18, taped in January '19 and aired that February. GOAT taped in early December.
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This is a guy who has won dang near $5 million playing Jeopardy, beating all comers repeatedly,
To be fair, Ken Jennings would have won the Decades tournament had he gotten the second FJ right, so that tournament certainly wasn't a rout.
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This is a guy who has won dang near $5 million playing Jeopardy, beating all comers repeatedly,
To be fair, Ken Jennings would have won the Decades tournament had he gotten the second FJ right, so that tournament certainly wasn't a rout.
Brad was also one clue away from not getting out of the first round.
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I was having a conversation with a family member who’s watched part of the tournament but is normally a casual J! viewer at best. Of Brad, she said, “He’s really not as impressive as the other two.” I briefly ran through his credentials & why he deserves to be there. She said, “So he’s just really not on his game.” I thought that was a fair assessment.
But I imagine there are a lot of people watching the GOAT who are normally only occasional J! viewers, who know Ken & James, but haven’t paid much attention to Brad. Considering he’s a lower-key pop culture figure than Ken or James, many of them probably don’t know his backstory (the on-air player profiles notwithstanding). And while they know he could kick their own tails in a trivia contest, they probably see him as being in over his head against Ken & James.
Of course, Brad has likely won enough J! money already that he doesn’t too much care what the rest of the country thinks.
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I would suggest that Brad's performance is both an outlier result but even still one that was probably going to happen at some point. Please correct me, but I only recall one instance where he utterly dominated a match (the UTOC finals), so most of my perception of him is that he is very very good but also able to catch the breaks you need when all other factors are equal. I do think James is a factor in that Holzhauer is on that tier above most other megachamps and having two opponents on that level may be too much for Brad to handle. Brad's still catching the breaks with Daily Doubles, but he's failed to capitalize for once. I think less yips and a lesser opponent would mean a less bad performance.
Also, I think there's some validity to the model mentioned in this actual Ringer longform (https://www.theringer.com/tv/2020/1/7/21054043/jeopardy-greatest-of-all-time-james-holzhauer-ken-jennings-brad-rutter) that gave everyone a 30-some percent chance of winning. Failure was always an option, we just didn't expect an epic one.
/Unless you remember he's from the Philadelphia area, where epic failure is often the only option
//Except in Super Bowl LII
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This is a guy who has won dang near $5 million playing Jeopardy, beating all comers repeatedly,
To be fair, Ken Jennings would have won the Decades tournament had he gotten the second FJ right, so that tournament certainly wasn't a rout.
Brad was also one clue away from not getting out of the first round.
And if you want to go unnecessarily further back, he almost got KO'd in the UTOC; he entered his second match in third place going into Final and needed Steve Chernicoff and Michael Rankins to go bust as well as get the answer right (which he did).
/met both Steve and Michael in Las Vegas two years ago...shook hands with both, nice couple of fellows
//also heard Steve drop an S bomb which I was surprised to hear...why I could never figure out
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This doesn't really add to the point, but I noticed on a couple of occasions, the Daily Double was the first clue selected in the Double Jeopardy! round, with the second being found a few clues later. Obviously coincidence, but a very odd one, IMO.
That said, the odds of it happening go way up when it's virtually guaranteed that the first twelve clues of the round are the bottom two rows of the board.
Brad has hit a Daily Double on the first clue of Double Jeopardy in four of the six games. And missed all four of them.
On one hand, that's a lot of deep holes to climb out of...but on the other hand, he's also "earned" the first selection in Double Jeopardy all six games, so...yeah.
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Robert Mills announced on his twitter that they’re going to rerun the first 3 eps this Saturday (8-11 EST) if you missed them or aren’t interested in the Ravens/Titans game...
https://twitter.com/millsy11374/status/1215729189833232384?s=21
Yay. I get to see the second episode, which I missed.
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Need to give the writing crew a major thumbs up for the design of the games for this tournament. I figured there would be plenty of wordplay/pun categories (looking at you, "before, during, and after"), but it's been balanced with a healthy amount of "easy" play-at-home content. I'm absolutely not good enough for the show but I've gotten a few correct from the armchair. Twitter's borderline meltdown when those three didn't get GOOD DAY, SIR was pretty neat to see.
I think ABC scheduled this brilliantly as well...they had the NFL wildcard game, at least a couple bowl games on the big network, and other holiday programming to promote this. I saw an ad on GSN, have there been ads on ESPN?
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The pair of triple stumpers on the cyber security category surprised me, or maybe it's just my bias toward IT.
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Going into this, I thought Ken would be the most motivated to win, as he's the one who stands to lose the most clout (relatively). When Ken finished his run, he was thought by a good number of people to be the GOAT. Then Brad came along, pantsed him in the first tourney, and has beat him ever since. James winning this could have put Ken at #3 in some people's minds.
I thought it was interesting that Brad talked about his diminished skills in the Game 1 interview, then played like a guy who fell back to Earth- my first thought was "yeah, they diminshed in your eyes, but you're still Brad Rutter"- but he wasn't lying at all. It was like he was trying to manage expectations moving forward.
My thought was that ABC could host a Masters series each year, starring the GOAT winner, the reigning ToC winner, and an all-star/classic player selected by fan vote. Winner gets $250K and comes back for the next series, kinda like Super Sale of the Century in Australia.
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Jage: I was a bit surprised too.
The one category where I really hated the video clues was the one on The Crown, where I felt four out of the five clues didn't need the video clip at all. The contestants have talked about anticipating when Alex is going to finish reading the clues so they can buzz in, but I think trying to anticipate when such a video clip is going to end would be maddening.
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I noticed that there's only one episode scheduled to air this upcoming Tuesday. Is the tournament now going to air weekly on Tuesdays?
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I noticed that there's only one episode scheduled to air this upcoming Tuesday. Is the tournament now going to air weekly on Tuesdays?
The scheduled airdates for all seven episodes were part of the original announcement, and there was more than one next week. Which leaves us with two possible explanations:
1. ABC's scheduling department is waiting until after Tuesday's episode airs to put the next one on the schedule so as to not spoil the outcome.
2. ABC's scheduling department knows that Tuesday's episode is the last one and doesn't care about giving that away.
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I noticed that there's only one episode scheduled to air this upcoming Tuesday. Is the tournament now going to air weekly on Tuesdays?
According to whom? Every listing I've seen (including on ABC.com) has the tournament scheduled Tues-Fri at 8 p.m.
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My thought was that ABC could host a Masters series each year, starring the GOAT winner, the reigning ToC winner, and an all-star/classic player selected by fan vote. Winner gets $250K and comes back for the next series, kinda like Super Sale of the Century in Australia.
I remember discussing this idea back during the Battle of the Decades--I would love for Super Jeopardy to close out each season. I would prefer that the TOC winner gets to choose someone to play against rather than fan favorites getting passed through or less memorable winners getting passed over.
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Based on this interview, ABC is at least considering a follow up on this, but what that is remains a mystery …
https://deadline.com/2020/01/jeopardy-primetime-specials-possible-followup-with-goat-trio-ken-jennings-brad-rutter-and-james-holzhauer-jeopardy-the-greatest-of-all-time-1202827437/
JD
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I wonder if anyone's considered trying to break this apart into half-hour chunks to air during summer reruns. NBC effectively does this for past seasons of American Ninja Warrior put out into syndication, and I bet there's demand for another airing of this.
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Based on this interview, ABC is at least considering a follow up on this, but what that is remains a mystery …
https://deadline.com/2020/01/jeopardy-primetime-specials-possible-followup-with-goat-trio-ken-jennings-brad-rutter-and-james-holzhauer-jeopardy-the-greatest-of-all-time-1202827437/
JD
I’m wary of them trying....however, say Alex decides to retire at the end of the season, you could do something to introduce the new host in a big way (frankly, if ABC wasn’t doing the Millionaire specials, I’d say do a celebrity pro/am tournament- a celeb plays the first game, a J! Champion plays the 2nd)
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I'll just add that the lightning-in-a-bottle nature of this GOAT special has a few things going for it - popular names, Alex's health in the news, great buzz and great gameplay. It reminds me of the initial run of Millionaire episodes that caught everyone by surprise all those years ago.
I think the idea of Super J! at the end of every season in primetime is a great idea. Adding in elements of MLB All-Star voting would be fun.
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(frankly, if ABC wasn’t doing the Millionaire specials, I’d say do a celebrity pro/am tournament- a celeb plays the first game, a J! Champion plays the 2nd)
Or there's always doing Celebrity Wheel of Fortune.
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A prediction for tonight: one of the late night hosts makes a joke along the lines:
Tonight the nation was riveted as a group of people at podiums competed to show who was the best. . . And there was a political debate.
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I noticed that there's only one episode scheduled to air this upcoming Tuesday. Is the tournament now going to air weekly on Tuesdays?
According to whom? Every listing I've seen (including on ABC.com) has the tournament scheduled Tues-Fri at 8 p.m.
My local listings had the GOAT only scheduled for today, thus my suspicions that today's episode would be the last of the tournament, and thus, spoiling the outcome.
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I’m not sure if this means anything, but the DirecTV listings only shows 4 dates
1/7, 1/8, 1/9, and 1/14
So maybe the first person to win 2 games will ultimately be the winner?
I didn’t check the DTV listings to see if anything was on the schedule past 1/14.
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My DirecTV listings always had it scheduled all four possible days this week as to not spoil the outcome. I just checked and no changes have been made to the listings. It still shows it on the schedule Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
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My DirecTV listings always had it scheduled all four possible days this week as to not spoil the outcome. I just checked and no changes have been made to the listings. It still shows it on the schedule Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
In fact, my DirecTV DVR recorded the nonexistent Wednesday episode. Their listings provider -- which is TMS (formerly Tribune Media Services) -- is usually better than that at pushing through last-minute changes.
TMS also provides listings to a lot of newspapers, and the TV page in Wednesday's Los Angeles Times listed Game 5 as a highlight, with no "as necessary" qualification. (Somewhat more understandable than the DVR situation, since the L.A. Times seems to produce the daily TV listings 48 hours in advance.)
(https://i.imgur.com/We2Vkqa.png)
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Brandon Larracuente's expression there accurately reflects the way my face looked while I tried to comprehend the material being playing during this tournament.
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My DirecTV listings always had it scheduled all four possible days this week as to not spoil the outcome. I just checked and no changes have been made to the listings. It still shows it on the schedule Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
In fact, my DirecTV DVR recorded the nonexistent Wednesday episode. Their listings provider -- which is TMS (formerly Tribune Media Services) -- is usually better than that at pushing through last-minute changes.
AT&T uVERSE also recorded the fill-in sitcoms last night as part of my J! GOAT season pass...on a lark, I decided to try to watch what was recorded instead ("The Goldbergs"\"Schooled")...what a wonderfur reminder of why I NEVER waste time with those...sooooo horrible!
JakeT
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I think they should have aired this show weekly. It would have kept it in the public consciousness a bit longer.
I also think they made a mistake calling it the "Greatest of All Time." Such hyperbole, and it needlessly closed off a lot of future possibilities.
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I also think they made a mistake calling it the "Greatest of All Time." Such hyperbole, and it needlessly closed off a lot of future possibilities.
Such as what? Jeopardy won't exist as we know it in a few years. Also:
One contestant set a win streak that nobody in fifteen years has gotten within 50% of reaching.
One contestant had a mega-tournament performance level you could set an atomic clock to.
One contestant had a mean and median average win level just higher than Roger Craig's $77,000 then-record.
There will be other big winners but I think those three will be the contenders for GOAT for a while.
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I also think they made a mistake calling it the "Greatest of All Time." Such hyperbole, and it needlessly closed off a lot of future possibilities.
Certainly no more hyperbolic than American (and a bit of Canadian) baseball having an annual "World Series"...
It's television...hyperbole is its lifeblood...
JakeT
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Certainly no more hyperbolic than American (and a bit of Canadian) baseball having an annual "World Series"...
It's television...hyperbole is its lifeblood...
And named after a newspaper at that! What horrendous conceit! /s
/Actually, the World Baseball Classic is a neat idea that I hope stays around for a long time.