The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Casey on September 22, 2019, 08:28:52 PM
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After watching an MG syndie episode recently, where a player won the game but missed out on any of 3 answers in the audience match and was sent home with the Rice-a-Roni, I wondered how many other games allows you to win the game and leave with nothing.
The only other one I could think of off the top of my head was Press Your Luck where it happened a couple of times. Any others?
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Would you count Treasure Hunt where you could win the choice to pick a prize and end up with a klunk?
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Debt? I mean, it is the show's tagline...even though the contestant's debt amounts may well have been for show, and what they chose to do with their winnings is their business...
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-Card Sharks from 2001...the winning contestant received $2,100, which was then split up over three levels on the Money Cards. A few contestants bet it all and lost as a result*.
-Any Millionaire contestant from the Fastest Finger era, but failed to get past the first five questions. They used to call this a "Llama" (https://millionaire.fandom.com/wiki/Llama) on ATGS...
-There were also a couple of Pyramid Winner's Circles where a contestant got nothing, one from the 80s, another during the Donnymid era. Not sure if said contestants won a 7-11/Mystery 7/Super Six.
Didn't the 70s era Match Game award $100 to the day's winner? Or was that just the CBS version?
/*Although I think they did get a digital camera or a watch or something
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Didn't the 70s era Match Game award $100 to the day's winner? Or was that just the CBS version?
Just the CBS version.
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I was gonna say Temptation because the possibility existed for someone to win with no prizes being won, but I think that would be a different set of circumstances, no? Considering you'd have to come back and play again to even have a chance to do that?
What happened the one time a champion on Merv Griffin's Crosswords won with a negative balance?
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I was gonna say Temptation because the possibility existed for someone to win with no prizes being won, but I think that would be a different set of circumstances, no? Considering you'd have to come back and play again to even have a chance to do that?
I recall at least one carryover winner on nighttime Sale that lost their next game and basically won their cash account but nothing in Fame Game or gift shop. Temptation didn't even have cash for right answers and only three chances to pick up loot during the game.
What happened the one time a champion on Merv Griffin's Crosswords won with a negative balance?
Croton watch and the "honor of being our champion."
/also a bill came in the mail 90 days later.
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Rafferty Card Sharks added prize cards to the decks and did not pay the winner $100/game. If they failed to pick up any prize cards and busted in the Money Cards, they could have won nothing.
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-There were also a couple of Pyramid Winner's Circles where a contestant got nothing, one from the 80s,
Yes, a female contestant crashed and burned with Tom Poston. She gave the clues.
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-Card Sharks from 2001...the winning contestant received $2,100, which was then split up over three levels on the Money Cards. A few contestants bet it all and lost as a result*.
They got $700 as a consolation prize.
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-There were also a couple of Pyramid Winner's Circles where a contestant got nothing, one from the 80s,
Yes, a female contestant crashed and burned with Tom Poston. She gave the clues.
However that contestant won the Winners Circle twice before then, also giving the clues.
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After watching an MG syndie episode recently, where a player won the game but missed out on any of 3 answers in the audience match and was sent home with the Rice-a-Roni, I wondered how many other games allows you to win the game and leave with nothing.
The only other one I could think of off the top of my head was Press Your Luck where it happened a couple of times. Any others?
Refresh my memory, but did contestants win $100 for winning the front game on MGPM, or was that only on the daytime version?
On Press Your Luck the $0 winners at least had an opportunity to play again (and a triple $0 once, so someone in that group won something). Jeopardy had high scorers tie for the $0 top score of the day, although the second time it happened, there was consolation cash (and an extra $2,000 ponied up by Alleve).
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Refresh my memory, but did contestants win $100 for winning the front game on MGPM, or was that only on the daytime version?
Only on the daytime version.
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Refresh my memory, but did contestants win $100 for winning the front game on MGPM, or was that only on the daytime version?
There was one PM episode where a contestant bombed out on both Audience Matches. Back from commercial, Gene read a Dumb Dora question with a really obvious answer and offered her $100 for each celebrity she matched. She matched all six for $600. So at least on PM, you had to work really, really hard at going home with nothing.
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I was gonna say Temptation because the possibility existed for someone to win with no prizes being won, but I think that would be a different set of circumstances, no? Considering you'd have to come back and play again to even have a chance to do that?
It happened at least once. One champion lost on her third day...and since she never bought a single thing in those three days, she ended up leaving with nothing but Rossi's love.
For those who don't mind spoilers and/or wanna try catching it on Buzzr, her name was De Rynn, and she was on the first taped week. Buzzr's shown her fruitless run at least thrice.
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-Card Sharks from 2001...the winning contestant received $2,100, which was then split up over three levels on the Money Cards. A few contestants bet it all and lost as a result*.
Card Sharks from 2019, too. The $10,000 each contestant receives for winning the main game is what they're betting in the Money Cards.
I know I've seen at least one game of Classic Concentration where a contestant had no prizes when time was called, solved the rebus, and then failed to win a car. But I can't remember if they won anything in a previous/subsequent game.
And since the subject is games where you can *theoretically* win and still receive nothing...
- Any version of Family Feud where the main game is played for points. But I can't imagine anybody's ever been completely shut out in Fast Money.
- The second season of Liza Koshy–hosted Double Dare is played for points in the main game. I would hope that there aren't any episodes where the team fails to complete the first obstacle.
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Regarding Double Dare, it would have to be an obstacle like "Nightmare" where you have to find the flag in a pile of something for a team to bomb out with the first obstacle. I think the crew learned something from that first episode and made the first obstacle a sort of "gimme". The current version made Sundae Slide significantly easier by not having a ramp with gunk to climb up.
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Doug Davidson's Price Is Right had it happen a couple of times where a contestant got nothing in their Pricing Game, won the Showcase Showdown, and lost the Showcase round.
What happened the one time a champion on Merv Griffin's Crosswords won with a negative balance?
Croton watch and the "honor of being our champion."
/also a bill came in the mail 90 days later.
And Ty was all "You have no money, but you have your pride." ...no, he doesn't really have that either.
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-Card Sharks from 2001...the winning contestant received $2,100, which was then split up over three levels on the Money Cards. A few contestants bet it all and lost as a result*.
They got $700 as a consolation prize.
Ah, I forgot about this. Thank you. :)
Would you count Treasure Hunt where you could win the choice to pick a prize and end up with a klunk?
For the occasions when the klunk didn't end up being a nice chunk of money, I'd count it.
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If I'm remembering correctly, you didn't get anything for winning the game on Nick Arcade. I'm pretty sure I saw teams fail to make it past round 1 in the bonus--depending how badly they did, it could mean bupkus.
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I may sound crazy, but the experience has to count for something too.
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It's not nothing, but it's always amused me that a player could win Jeopardy! with less than $1000, then come in third on their second appearance, and win less in total than somebody who came in second. I think it's actually happened a few times.
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Nobody mentioned this, but the first 2 seasons of Stump the Schwab fits into this category, as well as the Joker's Wild when it originally had the Joker's Jackpot, now for Nick Arcade, I believe the team still picked up some money for each individual item they pick up even if they don't get past the first level in the end game. I'm also thinking about Get the Picture Season 2, when the opening toss-up picture and the nametags were added but also switched to points in the main game, this can also fit into this category as well.
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I may sound crazy, but the experience has to count for something too.
Oh sure - I mean I think all of us would love just being there playing the game It's just that very few games rewarded a contestant with nothing for winning the main game, and then give the possibility of a wipeout in the bonus round.
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Both Hollywood Showdown and The Rich List awarded nothing for winning the main game and had a ladder where if the contestant(s) fell off there was no safety net.
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Would you count Treasure Hunt where you could win the choice to pick a prize and end up with a klunk?
For the occasions when the klunk didn't end up being a nice chunk of money, I'd count it.
I would argue that while whoever was dealt the box with the surprise inside did win something that ending up with a klunk is not really winning the game in the spirit of something like The Newlywed Game.
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I'm just surprised nobody mentioned Pitfall until now.
/Yes, it's a technicality, but it counts in my book.
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On Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour, the Match Game winner could put up a goose egg in the Hollywood Squares portion.
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I'm just surprised nobody mentioned Pitfall until now.
/Yes, it's a technicality, but it counts in my book.
By the same logic, you could also include Reel-To-Reel.
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Classic Concentration also allows you to win the game and go away with nothing but the lovely parting gifts... If you solve the puzzle with no prizes in your column (in a shortened game for instance), don’t win a car in the car round, and then lose the next game when you return the next day, you just get the Lee Press-On Nails...
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I'm just surprised nobody mentioned Pitfall until now.
/Yes, it's a technicality, but it counts in my book.
By the same logic, you could also include Reel-To-Reel.
I see--he was attempting to be funny.
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Narz Concentration too, but he did go on to win Double Play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oka8S-im3JU&t=18m00s
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This is veering from the original poster's question, but there was a contestant on TPIR that won by DOING nothing. (Well, sort of.) This contestant won his one bid, then played 10 Chances, but someone didn't load the board right, and all three prices for all three prizes were exposed when Bob removed the prize cards. So, for the only time in the show's history, the contestant won all three prizes without having to write anything. (I want to say I saw one playing with ONE price accidentally exposed, but I can't swear to it.) During the Showcase Showdown, he was the third to spin, and the other two went over, so he got into the showcase automatically (with Bob quick to point out he got this far doing NOTHING) I believe he also won his showcase.
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This is veering from the original poster's question, but there was a contestant on TPIR that won by DOING nothing. (Well, sort of.) This contestant won his one bid, then played 10 Chances, but someone didn't load the board right, and all three prices for all three prizes were exposed when Bob removed the prize cards. So, for the only time in the show's history, the contestant won all three prizes without having to write anything. (I want to say I saw one playing with ONE price accidentally exposed, but I can't swear to it.) During the Showcase Showdown, he was the third to spin, and the other two went over, so he got into the showcase automatically (with Bob quick to point out he got this far doing NOTHING) I believe he also won his showcase.
He did not win the showcase. He was last to bid on a one-bid and bid a dollar higher than the highest bid. In the showcase, he overbid.
The full episode for your viewing pleasure (sorry about the bad tracking at the top...damn Magnavox VHS):
https://youtu.be/tkSOr-8y9Qs?t=849 (https://youtu.be/tkSOr-8y9Qs?t=849)
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This is veering from the original poster's question, but there was a contestant on TPIR that won by DOING nothing. (Well, sort of.) This contestant won his one bid, then played 10 Chances, but someone didn't load the board right, and all three prices for all three prizes were exposed when Bob removed the prize cards. So, for the only time in the show's history, the contestant won all three prizes without having to write anything. (I want to say I saw one playing with ONE price accidentally exposed, but I can't swear to it.) During the Showcase Showdown, he was the third to spin, and the other two went over, so he got into the showcase automatically (with Bob quick to point out he got this far doing NOTHING) I believe he also won his showcase.
Why wouldn't they have been smart enough to do a stopdown after the first reveal to make sure that this didn't end up this way? Clearly, Bob suspected it was going to happen...it was even more ridiculous that they didn't intervene and do a stopdown after the second reveal...
Wasn't even remotely entertaining to watch...yay...clean-cut goofy-grin Joe College gets a bunch of loot for standing there...how fun...
JakeT
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Why wouldn't they have been smart enough to do a stopdown after the first reveal to make sure that this didn't end up this way?
One of the staff members (director, producer, I don't remember) once said in an interview that stopdowns are often more expensive than the prize, so it's more cost-effective to just say "Give them the car".
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Why wouldn't they have been smart enough to do a stopdown after the first reveal to make sure that this didn't end up this way?
One of the staff members (director, producer, I don't remember) once said in an interview that stopdowns are often more expensive than the prize, so it's more cost-effective to just say "Give them the car".
I'd really like to hear how a simple two-minute corrective stopdown could cost them $20,000...
JakeT
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Studio time by the hour ain't cheap.
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Studio time by the hour ain't cheap.
I'm well aware of that...but $20,000 for a two-minute correction? Let's be real here...
Plus we know they've done tons of stopdowns for many other reasons...
Can we try to apply a little logic here and inject a dose of reality? Maybe some facts as well?
JakeT
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Why wouldn't they have been smart enough to do a stopdown after the first reveal to make sure that this didn't end up this way?
One of the staff members (director, producer, I don't remember) once said in an interview that stopdowns are often more expensive than the prize, so it's more cost-effective to just say "Give them the car".
I imagine the bigger stopdowns that require a new prize to come in could possibly fit that bill. If you realize halfway through Money Game that the wrong car copy was read, it's easier to let the game go, resolve the situation in the break, and have the host mention it at the top of the next act...or tell the host during the act to say "give them the car." Because the only fix in that case would be to reset the game for the real car at stake (which requires selecting & retrieving graphics for 9 new pairs of numbers, resetting the board, etc.) or getting a new car in the studio, which is far less practical.
But in this specific case, after you see the first price in Ten Chances has been accidentally revealed, throwing up a curtain (or dropping the Race Game flat) while you double check the other 2 prizes would be far lest costly. I think Bob was making a statement to the staff.
As I had it explained to me some time ago, even when the sliding of the numbers became manual, Ten Chances still had electricity running through it. When the contestant wrote the correct number, they would engage the button, so when Bob pressed it, it would actually work. Apparently, a short had run through the game and dropped all the prices. Since it happened between when the game was set up and when the game was played, nobody caught it.
-Jason
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But in this specific case, after you see the first price in Ten Chances has been accidentally revealed, throwing up a curtain (or dropping the Race Game flat) while you double check the other 2 prizes would be far lest costly. I think Bob was making a statement to the staff.
As I had it explained to me some time ago, even when the sliding of the numbers became manual, Ten Chances still had electricity running through it. When the contestant wrote the correct number, they would engage the button, so when Bob pressed it, it would actually work. Apparently, a short had run through the game and dropped all the prices. Since it happened between when the game was set up and when the game was played, nobody caught it.
So, suffice it to say, this was likely nothing more than a technical error beyond anyone's control and, in his capacity as Grand Poobah Executive Producer, Barker decided to needlessly poke someone in the eye while costing CBS and the production company $20,000...
Thanks for injecting the logic and reality I was seeking...much appreciated...
JakeT
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...While at the same time creating an interesting moment on the show that would most certainly ultimately give it some good PR by demonstrating that they understand that the contestant wasn't at fault and thus gets the benefit of any mistake the production makes.
I can think of at least two other prop-related mishaps on TPIR that maybe could have been fixed by a stopdown and reset (the Punch-a-Bunch game where the slip was missing, the Race Game playing where the reader incorrectly flashed 0 instead of 2) but instead they opted to just give the prizes away. Even decades after the fact, they're still memorable moments, and they're remembered fondly because they showed the host giving the prize to a happy contestant and making a fun moment out of it. That's all the evidence I need to know that that's the way to go. Especially since TPIR is a show that literally involves hundreds of props and something is bound to malfunction once in a while.
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...While at the same time creating an interesting moment on the show that would most certainly ultimately give it some good PR by demonstrating that they understand that the contestant wasn't at fault and thus gets the benefit of any mistake the production makes.
Looking at the Welcome to New York promo in the beginning, I'm pinpointing this around 2001 or so, well into Barker's manufactured "historic moments" era, where he declares anything to be a big deal or gives away the prize just for the hell of it. In addition to the PR, he knows it makes for a good clip on the next prime time retrospective*. I don't know how much it cost the show, I simply see Barker being Barker here.
*Although I don't think they ever used this one.
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Besides, it only costs them something if the contestant would have lost the game. Obviously we have no way of knowing, but if the contestant otherwise would have won, then the show lost nothing by giving away the prize up front (and even likely gained a couple minutes of air time to fill the rest of the way).
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But in this specific case, after you see the first price in Ten Chances has been accidentally revealed, throwing up a curtain (or dropping the Race Game flat) while you double check the other 2 prizes would be far lest costly. I think Bob was making a statement to the staff.
As I had it explained to me some time ago, even when the sliding of the numbers became manual, Ten Chances still had electricity running through it. When the contestant wrote the correct number, they would engage the button, so when Bob pressed it, it would actually work. Apparently, a short had run through the game and dropped all the prices. Since it happened between when the game was set up and when the game was played, nobody caught it.
So, suffice it to say, this was likely nothing more than a technical error beyond anyone's control and, in his capacity as Grand Poobah Executive Producer, Barker decided to needlessly poke someone in the eye while costing CBS and the production company $20,000...
Thanks for injecting the logic and reality I was seeking...much appreciated...
JakeT
Jake, I'm pretty sure CBS wasn't out anything. The production company, on the other hand, was.
I'm also pretty sure you're simplifying things by calling it a "2-minute" stopdown. I'm not an expert on this, but I suspect that anything involving changing a game once a contestant is engaged in the game probably requires a standards and practices review to ensure that nothing improper is happening. Networks and production companies take that kind of thing VERY seriously. Given the cost of studio time, extra labor, etc., I can imagine that one quickly gets to where "just moving on" is the right move if more than a simple stopdown is required.
Plus, there is some likelihood that the contestant would have won the game if it had been played normally. So the cost to the production company ISN'T $20,000, it's a probabilistic amount based on the probability that the contestant would have won anyway. [EDIT: Sorry, Army - I didn't see your post when I wrote this. Full credit to you for this.]
Also, keep in mind that the show was pretty much done live to tape at the time, unlike now with more edits and stopdowns. So a stopdown would have been more out of the ordinary for an issue as opposed to just continuing on.
I think you're over-exaggerating the issue significantly with your word choice and tone.
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Yes, Jake's tone is incredibly dismissive and I think he could stand to draw it back 9 steps in this post and others, but that doesn't make his logic unsound.
For starters, the old Price routinely stopped down between showcases 1 & 2. Not always, I'm sure, but often enough. It was easier to spot in the '70s & '80s because the edit wasn't as clean. Just watch the moment Johnny says "YOUR showcase..." to the second person. The player is often staring into space unnaturally, while there's visual evidence of a cut. There's blooper reels online from Barker's last year or few where he calls for a stop after flubbing a line. Given he was the EP, if he wanted to stop, they would stop.
We talk a lot about S&P's strictness, and I don't expect many people online to know this, but an S&P presence isn't like a Brinks-level security. I think, in general, people here tend to overstate their role based on what they've read, and they overstate how complicated fixes like this are. To double check Ten Chances is not "changing a game." There's not a rubber stamp process for this sort of thing. And as I understand it, many (if not all) of the Goodson games were given more latitude than you imagine with S&P departments because they had a good reputation. If the contestant won the first prize in Ten Chances by default, nobody's mind is jumping to major foul play.
On most shows I've worked on with big money prizes and/or an outside S&P firm, most things you do elicit the S&P rep to accompany you . In all of the Price stops I've seen on tape and in person, I've seen no such person at the side of the producer or stage manager or whoever's futzing with the problem at hand.
-Jason
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Fair enough. Thanks for the insight - much appreciated!
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For starters, the old Price routinely stopped down between showcases 1 & 2. Not always, I'm sure, but often enough. It was easier to spot in the '70s & '80s because the edit wasn't as clean. Just watch the moment Johnny says "YOUR showcase..." to the second person. The player is often staring into space unnaturally, while there's visual evidence of a cut. There's blooper reels online from Barker's last year or few where he calls for a stop after flubbing a line. Given he was the EP, if he wanted to stop, they would stop.
At a Barker Price taping I went to, after the "end of the show", they had to "reshoot" a prize from earlier in the show. That would mean they had to bring back and re-position the prize, and anything else that was (in this case) behind the doors as well (scenery, props, etc...). They likely used the audio from the original description and added the reshot video in post. That would be more expensive overall than a 2 minute mid-game stopdown.
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While not wanting to stanch the discussion on what game show cars cost I came across an episode of Debt where the contestant managed to roll up $6,700 against a debt of $6,647 from student loans. While the show was billed as one where "the winners go home with nothing!" I don't think that the show handled his bills, cut him a check for $57 and said "good job, don't let the door hit you on the way out." That also doesn't speak to the issue of taxes to be paid. We can infer that the show pays the full amount and maybe hope that the contestant does the right thing but that the responsibility does lie with the winner.
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In Italy, one contestant on Avanti Un Altro! managed to win the endgame exactly when the money clock hit zero. He was technically a winner... of zero! :-[
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Cele - do you get nothing for winning the front game in Avanti? Au Suivant gives $1K for the champion of the day.
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Cele - do you get nothing for winning the front game in Avanti? Au Suivant gives $1K for the champion of the day.
Goose egg. (except in season 5, when the winner was given a one-year subscription to the network's premium channels)
Present-day gameshows in Italy all work like this: the front game is played only to determine who advances to the final game and how much it will be played for (typically in the €100,000-€200,000 range). Then, the winner has a feeble chance to win the day's jackpot, a fraction of it, or nothing at all. A returning champion with zero winnings is known as a "champion without portfolio".