The Game Show Forum

The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Jeremy Nelson on May 08, 2019, 03:44:49 PM

Title: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Jeremy Nelson on May 08, 2019, 03:44:49 PM
This is either going to be really fun, crash and burn, or both.

Dennis James was nearly made the host of the daytime Price in 1972, but the job was given to Bob Barker. It made me wonder- would Price last as long or be a cultural phenomenon under anyone else? Letís say in an alternate timeline, Dennis James is made the host of both daytime and nighttime Price. What happens next in your alternate timeline?
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: BrandonFG on May 08, 2019, 04:56:08 PM
Even though Bob was pretty generic the first couple years, I think Dennis was a little too "old guard" to make the show last into the present day, let alone the 1980s. When you look at G-T's other long-running shows that premiered in the early/mid-70s, the hosts added a little flair of their own. Even Allen Ludden injected a little more personality into the 70s versions of Password. The episodes I saw, Dennis ran the show like a traffic cop.

Keeping that in mind, I say the show lasts about as long as the nighttime version did, 1980 or so, at the latest. I can't see Dennis's style making it far into the new decade.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: TLEberle on May 08, 2019, 05:10:10 PM
I don't think it will crash/burn--the thread idea, I mean.

I think nighttime TPIR is tolerable because you're seeing Dennis James just once a week. I'm not sure I could take that much maladroit nervous energy every morning, five days a week. I have to suspend the disbelief that a brand new car or ten thousand dollars rests on the price of the Rice-a-Roni, and Dennis James just doesn't accomplish that for me.

If TPIR doesn't flame out at the end of the syndicated run I think they try to grab someone else--anyone else.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Stackertosh on May 08, 2019, 06:09:03 PM
I think if Dennis hosted the Daytime show it would had the same run as the Night Time show and he would of been either replaced or the show would of been canceled and revived in the 80s. I can't see Dennis having the same reaction as Bob with the Yolanda moments or playing around with Johnny and the Models when they screw up.  Plus multiple people said Dennis was limited on knowing the pricing games.

Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: RMF on May 08, 2019, 07:06:40 PM
Some thoughts I have, involving potential changes:

1) To start with, I do not believe that it would crash and burn- given how quickly it went off the air, I doubt Concentration had that much left in the tank, and the use of Price as late-afternoon soap counter-programming likewise is effective in the short term.

2) The differences I see emerging start doing so during the 1975-1976 season, in two different regards: given James' limitations as a host, I suspect that the effort to expand Price to an hour bombs in the same way that it did for every other show that tried to do so during that period, and, faced with competition from Wheel, the ratings start to slip.

3) In our timeline, Wheel ultimately changed its time slot to get away from Price- in this set of circumstances, I don't think that NBC's program planners feel the need to move it, while Price may very well get shifted to the 10 AM slot to get away from Wheel (moving it back to the late afternoon is probably not an option, given both how well Match Game and Tattletales are doing and CBS's efforts to stay in Norman Lear's good graces).

4) In the short-run, Price is able to survive facing off against a declining Celebrity Sweepstakes and then Sanford and Son reruns.

5) Here is where another important issue hits with the timeline. In our timeline, Dennis James left Price at the end of taping for the 1976-1977 syndicated season. Here, there are two different issues at hand: When does Dennis James leave (presumably, based on my previous calculations, it doesn't really become an issue until late 1975/early 1976), and who replaces him (is it Barker stepping in a few years late, or is someone else entirely approached?)

At this point, it becomes really hard to predict- anything from the show ending its run at the hands of Card Sharks to it lingering into the late 1980s/early 1990s period when daytime television divested itself of game shows is a possibility, and a lot of it is dependent on factors that are now impossible to test (namely, how well various people would have fared as hosts, and how the audience would take to them).

Overall, it seems clear to me that it doesn't become the phenomenon it has in our timeline- but what it does become is an entirely different subject.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: BrandonFG on May 08, 2019, 07:21:11 PM
So piggybacking off of RMF's points, let's say James remains the host, and the show is canceled in 1979. The syndicated version still runs til 1980.

I'd guess that, like Feud and Match Game, TPiR comes back from time to time. Only three or four years separated the Feud revivals (canceled in 1985, returns in '88; canceled in '95, returns in '99*), so keeping that in mind, I'd guess the Tom Kennedy nighttime version premieres a year earlier, but with no daytime counterpart, it benefits from being able to air earlier and not face Wheel in many markets. It runs for a few years, and gets canceled as game show fever dies down around 1989. Now, whether they try again with the Doug Davidson version in '94 is another question.

However, like with MG/Feud, reruns air to this day on GSN/Buzzr, prompting another (primetime) revival. And this time, hiring a comedian like Drew Carey isn't nearly as controversial. :P

*/I keep forgetting it's aired for 20 consecutive years
//Really interesting that didn't do a "20th Anniversary" season graphic
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: snowpeck on May 08, 2019, 09:21:00 PM
5) Here is where another important issue hits with the timeline. In our timeline, Dennis James left Price at the end of taping for the 1976-1977 syndicated season. Here, there are two different issues at hand: When does Dennis James leave (presumably, based on my previous calculations, it doesn't really become an issue until late 1975/early 1976), and who replaces him (is it Barker stepping in a few years late, or is someone else entirely approached?)

Dennis didn't quit Price. His five-year contract was up, the show was moving to the CBS O&Os and Barker was available due to Truth or Consequences not being in production. The CBS O&Os insisted on Barker hosting. Had Barker not been available, Dennis would probably have continued as host.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on May 08, 2019, 10:19:31 PM
I'm probably not the best person to take part in this discussion, but there's something I feel like I should throw into the mix:  If the show's not around in the early '80, does Plinko ever exist?
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Neumms on May 08, 2019, 10:45:51 PM
I'm probably not the best person to take part in this discussion, but there's something I feel like I should throw into the mix:  If the show's not around in the early '80, does Plinko ever exist?

Sure. It would have probably involved survey questions and Bob Eubanks, though.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Neumms on May 08, 2019, 10:49:18 PM
I wonder if Dennis had started and they wanted to replace him, whom G-T may have looked at. Wink once Gambit was axed? Bert once Tattletales was cancelled? Bob Eubanks, whom Goodson liked and was available every couple of years?

And what if Barker had hosted Gambit, as he was considering because he feared replacing Cullen?
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Jimmy Owen on May 09, 2019, 03:38:29 AM
One thing for sure, someone else would have hosted daytime NTT.  Lasted about six months with Dennis and Tom. It was more successful with Tom at night.
My favorite Barker show was TorC. Nobody did it better than Bob.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: RMF on May 09, 2019, 05:55:00 AM
Dennis didn't quit Price. His five-year contract was up, the show was moving to the CBS O&Os and Barker was available due to Truth or Consequences not being in production. The CBS O&Os insisted on Barker hosting. Had Barker not been available, Dennis would probably have continued as host.

Thanks for the correction.

If anything, it further complicates my point in 5)- if Dennis James continues to have no desire to leave (and, for the moment, I'll assume that that doesn't change), when would Goodson-Todman feel ready to apply the hook, and under what set of circumstances?
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Jimmy Owen on May 09, 2019, 06:50:51 AM
Dennis didn't quit Price. His five-year contract was up, the show was moving to the CBS O&Os and Barker was available due to Truth or Consequences not being in production. The CBS O&Os insisted on Barker hosting. Had Barker not been available, Dennis would probably have continued as host.

Thanks for the correction.

If anything, it further complicates my point in 5)- if Dennis James continues to have no desire to leave (and, for the moment, I'll assume that that doesn't change), when would Goodson-Todman feel ready to apply the hook, and under what set of circumstances?




If ratings went down, or if the O&O's went to strip programming.  NBC went with Feud in fall of 80, which killed a lot of slots for weeklys.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: aaron sica on May 09, 2019, 08:19:01 AM
Dennis didn't quit Price. His five-year contract was up, the show was moving to the CBS O&Os and Barker was available due to Truth or Consequences not being in production. The CBS O&Os insisted on Barker hosting. Had Barker not been available, Dennis would probably have continued as host.

Coincidentally, I found an old TV listing from Arizona in 1977 where the James/Barker eps overlapped on two stations at the same time,  in the same week. One was showing James's last episode, and the other Barker's first episode.

As far as what the alterate timeline would be like.....It would have had a ripple effect on other shows. On my alternate timeline, Price is the one that ends on 4/20/79. The 10:30-11:30 (EST) timeslot that Price left behind gets filled by Whew! at 10:30, and M*A*S*H reruns move from the 3:30 slot to 11:00. Match Game finally gets its 3:30 timeslot back (CBS gives 4pm back to the affiliates), the ratings recover, and it stays on well into the '80s at that timeslot at which point it's sacrificed for Young and the Restless's expansion to an hour.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Jimmy Owen on May 09, 2019, 09:17:45 AM
Dennis didn't quit Price. His five-year contract was up, the show was moving to the CBS O&Os and Barker was available due to Truth or Consequences not being in production. The CBS O&Os insisted on Barker hosting. Had Barker not been available, Dennis would probably have continued as host.

Coincidentally, I found an old TV listing from Arizona in 1977 where the James/Barker eps overlapped on two stations at the same time,  in the same week. One was showing James's last episode, and the other Barker's first episode.

As far as what the alterate timeline would be like.....It would have had a ripple effect on other shows. On my alternate timeline, Price is the one that ends on 4/20/79. The 10:30-11:30 (EST) timeslot that Price left behind gets filled by Whew! at 10:30, and M*A*S*H reruns move from the 3:30 slot to 11:00. Match Game finally gets its 3:30 timeslot back, the ratings recover, and it stays on well into the '80s at that timeslot at which point it's sacrificed for Young and the Restless's expansion to an hour.
Would Viacom have expanded Price into a strip in fall 79?
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: aaron sica on May 09, 2019, 09:25:02 AM
Would Viacom have expanded Price into a strip in fall 79?

That's an interesting thought. MG was brought into a strip nearly seemlessly, with the only modification being that each contestant played two games and there were no returning champs. Game play remained almost the same, except for tiebreakers at the end of the week. Unfortunately the cancelled daytime version can't be that seamless as it was an hour. It was modified in this way (with a slight nod to TNPiR94): Three pricing games, showcase showdown (with the two highest amounts moving on). No bonus spins due to time, however. Then showcases but with no commercial break between showcases and reveal.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: calliaume on May 09, 2019, 09:34:42 AM
Plus multiple people said Dennis was limited on knowing the pricing games.
I've heard this as well - but I'd like to ask anyone familiar with that era if they can identify the show's taping schedule.  My memory is most of the game shows that aired weekly in syndication taped over a very short schedule (maybe three or four weeks), which probably gave Dennis a lot less time to learn and memorize the pricing games.  He didn't seem to struggle on Name That Tune, which was similar in that it had several minigames.

Quote
I wonder if Dennis had started and they wanted to replace him, whom G-T may have looked at....Bob Eubanks, whom Goodson liked and was available every couple of years?
Uh, no.  From Bob's book (or at least the advance reading copy I have):  "For years I could never get an audition with Goodson because he hated [Chuck] Barris as well as despised Rhyme and Reason.  One day I was at LAX waiting for a plane and ran into Goodson's attorney.  I expressed my desire to be able to audition for Goodson.  That meeting was fortuitous because a few weeks later I was hired by Mark to do his new show, Trivia Trap."
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Bryce L. on May 09, 2019, 02:16:22 PM
I'd like to ask anyone familiar with that era if they can identify the show's taping schedule.  My memory is most of the game shows that aired weekly in syndication taped over a very short schedule (maybe three or four weeks), which probably gave Dennis a lot less time to learn and memorize the pricing games.
The taping schedule for the 1970s nighttime TPIR can be found here (http://www.golden-road.net/index.php?topic=23615.msg412681#msg412681). Probably a much wider span of time than you were expecting (on average, from July to March).
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Neumms on May 09, 2019, 07:25:57 PM
"For years I could never get an audition with Goodson because he hated [Chuck] Barris as well as despised Rhyme and Reason.  One day I was at LAX waiting for a plan and ran into Goodson's attorney.  I expressed my desire to be able to audition for Goodson.  That meeting was fortuitous because a few weeks later I was hired by Mark to do his new show, Trivia Trap."

Hadn't heard that before. Thanks, Curt.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: MSTieScott on May 09, 2019, 08:51:33 PM
Plus multiple people said Dennis was limited on knowing the pricing games.
I've heard this as well - but I'd like to ask anyone familiar with that era if they can identify the show's taping schedule.

I wonder whether the "Dennis didn't know the games" story was based on his performance or if it was simply a fan making an inference from the fact that at the beginning of the fifth syndicated season, the show introduced a wider variety of pricing games, only to cut back to the same ol' same ol' for the second half of the season. (And then that inference got repeated over and over online until it was considered to be fact.)

If the story is the result of the latter, then it's worth noting that even after Barker took over the syndicated series, the show never again drew from the full pool of games available to the daytime version. So it's very possible that the limited number of pricing games in syndication might not be related to the abilities of the host.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: thomas_meighan on May 09, 2019, 08:52:54 PM
I think Dennis' success as a daytime TPIR host would depend on his ability to adapt to the hourlong format and learning several new pricing games every season. If he did both successfully and audiences liked him, fine. If not, G-T likely wouldn't have renewed his contract, and possibly would've bought it out.

Assuming the show remains as popular as it did with Barker as host, the question of Dennis' retirement would've come up somewhere between the late 80s and mid-90s, or however long he stayed well enough to host. With network games on the decline during those years, Goodson (or the successor companies) would've had a pretty important choice to make.

As an aside, do we know the original source for the claim that Dennis had a hard time learning the games, didn't understand them, etc.?
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: JasonA1 on May 09, 2019, 08:56:40 PM
If the story is the result of the latter, then it's worth noting that even after Barker took over the syndicated series, the show never again drew from the full pool of games available to the daytime version. So it's very possible that the limited number of pricing games in syndication might not be related to the abilities of the host.

And if memory serves from earlier posts, Shokus Radio episodes, etc. - Jay Wolpert was the main producer of the daytime version, whereas Frank Wayne was more hands on with the day-to-day of the nighttime version. So that could explain the difference as well.

-Jason
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Bryce L. on May 09, 2019, 09:27:25 PM
Plus multiple people said Dennis was limited on knowing the pricing games.
I've heard this as well - but I'd like to ask anyone familiar with that era if they can identify the show's taping schedule.

I wonder whether the "Dennis didn't know the games" story was based on his performance or if it was simply a fan making an inference from the fact that at the beginning of the fifth syndicated season, the show introduced a wider variety of pricing games, only to cut back to the same ol' same ol' for the second half of the season. (And then that inference got repeated over and over online until it was considered to be fact.)

If the story is the result of the latter, then it's worth noting that even after Barker took over the syndicated series, the show never again drew from the full pool of games available to the daytime version. So it's very possible that the limited number of pricing games in syndication might not be related to the abilities of the host.
I always assumed the reason for a smaller rotation of games was to stay away from the "longer" games, so as to leave more time for the Showcases.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: whewfan on May 10, 2019, 04:42:25 AM
"For years I could never get an audition with Goodson because he hated [Chuck] Barris as well as despised Rhyme and Reason.  One day I was at LAX waiting for a plan and ran into Goodson's attorney.  I expressed my desire to be able to audition for Goodson.  That meeting was fortuitous because a few weeks later I was hired by Mark to do his new show, Trivia Trap."

Hadn't heard that before. Thanks, Curt.

I'll bet Goodson hated Rhyme and Reason due to its similarities to Match Game. Both shows had six celebs (Richard Dawson also did the pilot), both shows involved matching a celeb with an answer to basically a "fill in the blank" phrase, the bonus game also was kind of similar, with the contestant coming up with three possible answers to a "fill in the blank" phrase, but all the contestant could do was repeat the phrase over and over hoping the celeb would come up with the rhyming word. Just the same, Tom Kennedy didn't host a GT game show until Allen Ludden and Betty White strongly suggested Tom to replace Allen on Password Plus. According to Tom, Goodson disliked him because he hosted You Don't Say, which he felt was a Password ripoff. (If you see the 5th episode on YouTube with Betty White, Goodson had reason to be upset... Tom's phrasings  of "as they look at it, we want you to see it at home", and his podium being at the center, it even LOOKED like Password. which is why Tom's podium was moved to the left later in the run. Tom also found a unique, playful way to joke with the celebs and civilians that was different from how Allen did Password.) I'd also have misgivings about casting someone well associated with a Chuck Barris show. Perhaps that's why Jim Lange never hosted a GT game show.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: SuperMatch93 on May 10, 2019, 06:37:45 AM
I'll bet Goodson hated Rhyme and Reason due to its similarities to Match Game.

In Bob Eubanks' Television Academy interview, he mentions a rumor that Goodson hated Rhyme and Reason so much that its cancellation was one of the caveats for ABC getting Family Feud.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Jimmy Owen on May 10, 2019, 07:36:21 AM
I'll bet Goodson hated Rhyme and Reason due to its similarities to Match Game.

In Bob Eubanks' Television Academy interview, he mentions a rumor that Goodson hated Rhyme and Reason so much that its cancellation was one of the caveats for ABC getting Family Feud.

That is plausible, because, as I recall, R&R was somewhat popular for ABC. 
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: calliaume on May 10, 2019, 10:30:35 AM
In Bob Eubanks' Television Academy interview, he mentions a rumor that Goodson hated Rhyme and Reason so much that its cancellation was one of the caveats for ABC getting Family Feud.

That is plausible, because, as I recall, R&R was somewhat popular for ABC.
Also from the book:

"Later I found out why our show had been cancelled.  Michael Brockman, who was the head of daytime television for ABC, had always taken care of Mark Goodson, the dean of American game show producers. It was well known in the business that if two shows were competing, and one were [sic] produced by Goodson, his company always got preferential treatment.  Less well known was the fact Goodson hated our show because he thought it was just like the Match Game, one of his shows.  Furthermore, what really pissed him off was the fact that Richard Dawson, one of his regular panelists on Match Game, had done our pilot.  When Rhyme and Reason was picked up and did bigger numbers than the slower paced Match Game, Goodson was furious.  About a year later Goodson developed Family Feud, which ABC really wanted.  The way I heard the story was that Goodson told Brockman he could have Feud only if he axed Rhyme.  So he did and Dawson had a new job.  Of course Family Feud has become one of the most successful game shows of all time, a staple of network and syndication for most of the last 28 years."
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: BillCullen1 on May 10, 2019, 12:20:22 PM
I had a feeling that was why Goodson hated R&R. If someone in his company had thought it up, he would have probably loved it as he would have cloned a successful show of his, like he did with WML, IGAS and TTTT.

Back to Dennis. I don't see him hosting TPIR as long as Bob did. He was six years older than Bob.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: cmjb13 on May 10, 2019, 01:20:32 PM
Let's say James does the daytime version up until his death in 1997.

Who takes the show over at that time?
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Dbacksfan12 on May 10, 2019, 01:43:02 PM
Let's say James does the daytime version up until his death in 1997.

Who takes the show over at that time?
Tom Bergeron does it instead of hosting Hollywood Squares.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Jeremy Nelson on May 10, 2019, 03:23:17 PM
Let's say James does the daytime version up until his death in 1997.

Who takes the show over at that time?
Tom Bergeron does it instead of hosting Hollywood Squares.
But does he? Obviously any alternate timeline is speculation, but Bergeron was still a relative unknown at the time. One of the reasons (from Tom's book) that he got Squares is that Whoopi had been a guest on Breakfast Time and had great chemistry with him. So when she got EP duties on Squares, she recalled him and hired him.

Realistically, in 1997, I'm thinking the job goes to Bob Goen or Pat Finn- possibly Doug Davidson if the 94 syndie revival still happens. Bob's probably the frontrunner since he's got experience and is a familiar face every day on Entertainment Tonight. The old guard of hosts is too old in 1997, and since so few hosts were developed in the 80s and early 90s, there aren't too many call-ups from the farm team.

If James quits earlier in the 90s, they work out a deal with Ray Combs.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: byrd62 on May 10, 2019, 03:27:30 PM
In Bob Eubanks' Television Academy interview, he mentions a rumor that Goodson hated Rhyme and Reason so much that its cancellation was one of the caveats for ABC getting Family Feud.

That is plausible, because, as I recall, R&R was somewhat popular for ABC.
Also from the book:

"Later I found out why our show had been cancelled.  Michael Brockman, who was the head of daytime television for ABC, had always taken care of Mark Goodson, the dean of American game show producers. It was well known in the business that if two shows were competing, and one were [sic] produced by Goodson, his company always got preferential treatment.  Less well known was the fact Goodson hated our show because he thought it was just like the Match Game, one of his shows.  Furthermore, what really pissed him off was the fact that Richard Dawson, one of his regular panelists on Match Game, had done our pilot.  When Rhyme and Reason was picked up and did bigger numbers than the slower paced Match Game, Goodson was furious.  About a year later Goodson developed Family Feud, which ABC really wanted.  The way I heard the story was that Goodson told Brockman he could have Feud only if he axed Rhyme.  So he did and Dawson had a new job.  Of course Family Feud has become one of the most successful game shows of all time, a staple of network and syndication for most of the last 28 years."

Would the "Goodson preference" have come into play over at CBS in early 1974, when its daytime programming head, B. Donald (Bud) Grant, in effect, pulled Bob Stewart's $10,000 Pyramid (eventually picked up by ABC a few months after) in favor of Goodson's Now You See It?
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: BrandonFG on May 10, 2019, 03:36:08 PM
Let's say James does the daytime version up until his death in 1997.

Who takes the show over at that time?
Tom Bergeron does it instead of hosting Hollywood Squares.
I like this. And Marc Summers gets Squares.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Neumms on May 10, 2019, 04:51:10 PM
Perhaps that's why Jim Lange never hosted a GT game show.

It could also have been that he wasn't a great host. Pat Finn, same reason.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Neumms on May 10, 2019, 04:59:01 PM
I had a feeling that was why Goodson hated R&R.

I imagine that's the reason, but like the Chuck Barris School of Taste, R&R was also more overtly raunchy than Match Game. Their celebrities actually gave the dirty answer and they'd edit it with the horn, which since it rhymed, didn't accomplish much. On Match Game, it remained unsaid.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: whewfan on May 10, 2019, 10:11:16 PM
Perhaps that's why Jim Lange never hosted a GT game show.

It could also have been that he wasn't a great host. Pat Finn, same reason.

I disagree with you on that one. I think Pat is a decent host, it's just the shows he was given. TJW 90, for me, didn't really work until they added elements from the original TJW. Okay, they didn't change the "game of definitions" format, but in terms of the game play, I'd rather see categories and Jokers on the slot machine instead of dollar amounts in the main game. Shop Til You Drop was a hokey show, and sometimes reeked of a TPIR wannabe, but it was on the air off and on for a while. The show had three sidekicks/announcers over the years. The first of course was Mark L Walburg, who would later have hits and misses with other game shows, then Jason Grant Smith, who I thought was the best fit for the series, then Dee Bradley Baker... talented voice artist, annoying as the sidekick IMO. I had said a long time ago that both Dee Baker and Jay Stewart dressed up in silly costumes, but the biggest difference was that when Jay did it, the show's dignity remained intact.

Jim Lange was discussed on here many times. I thought he was at least tolerable. Bullseye was a great format, but moved a little slow, and it was no better with the celebs. I thought he was decent on Name That Tune, but the contestant pool tended to have very showy contestants that were overboard on personality as well as lacking in good sportsmanship. With The Dating Game, all he had to do was introduce the contestants and the rest of the game ran itself with Jim on the sidelines, almost never saying a word. Give and Take and Spinoffs were both forgettable, being games of luck with formats that weren't enduring enough for a long running series. Oh My Word and Take my Word for It were also "meh", and likely inspired Wordplay, which was also kinda "meh." I liked Triple Threat, but the game came along when game shows were starting to wane.

I think it's just that sometimes decent hosts were given formats that just didn't work, with no real fault of their own. Art James is a good example. Art was great on Say When! and The Who, What or Where Game, but everything else just came and went. The Magnificent Marble Machine had the world's largest pinball machine, but beyond that the main game was just your average crossword puzzle type clue game, and sometimes, watching people play pinball just isn't exciting, despite the size of the machine. Blank Check (which the crew called "Blank Mind") was a dumb "guess the number I'm holding" game. Pay Cards and Super Pay Cards might be good for a few shows, but it's not a compelling enough format for a long running series. Catch Phrase, IMO was a game that should've had a longer run, and of course overseas, it did have a longer run. I just think that perhaps the game was a little ahead of its time, and also, I think Art's understated style of hosting was perhaps a bit bland for 80s audiences.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: TLEberle on May 10, 2019, 10:41:25 PM
Thank you, Matt, youíve certainly opined about a Joker 90 many a time.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: danderson on May 11, 2019, 03:38:14 PM
Some thoughts I have, involving potential changes:

1) To start with, I do not believe that it would crash and burn- given how quickly it went off the air, I doubt Concentration had that much left in the tank, and the use of Price as late-afternoon soap counter-programming likewise is effective in the short term.

2) The differences I see emerging start doing so during the 1975-1976 season, in two different regards: given James' limitations as a host, I suspect that the effort to expand Price to an hour bombs in the same way that it did for every other show that tried to do so during that period, and, faced with competition from Wheel, the ratings start to slip.

3) In our timeline, Wheel ultimately changed its time slot to get away from Price- in this set of circumstances, I don't think that NBC's program planners feel the need to move it, while Price may very well get shifted to the 10 AM slot to get away from Wheel (moving it back to the late afternoon is probably not an option, given both how well Match Game and Tattletales are doing and CBS's efforts to stay in Norman Lear's good graces).

4) In the short-run, Price is able to survive facing off against a declining Celebrity Sweepstakes and then Sanford and Son reruns.

5) Here is where another important issue hits with the timeline. In our timeline, Dennis James left Price at the end of taping for the 1976-1977 syndicated season. Here, there are two different issues at hand: When does Dennis James leave (presumably, based on my previous calculations, it doesn't really become an issue until late 1975/early 1976), and who replaces him (is it Barker stepping in a few years late, or is someone else entirely approached?)

At this point, it becomes really hard to predict- anything from the show ending its run at the hands of Card Sharks to it lingering into the late 1980s/early 1990s period when daytime television divested itself of game shows is a possibility, and a lot of it is dependent on factors that are now impossible to test (namely, how well various people would have fared as hosts, and how the audience would take to them).

Overall, it seems clear to me that it doesn't become the phenomenon it has in our timeline- but what it does become is an entirely different subject.

Another possibly would be The Jokers Wild moving to 3pm.  However, i don't think it lasts opposite Another World, no? AW was all the rage in 73 with the Alice/Rachel/Steve triangle then, so i doubt that TJW survives that. Maybe P&G relaxes their policy and maybe CBS puts TJW opposite The Doctors?
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Jimmy Owen on May 11, 2019, 04:47:37 PM
Nightime Price is Right lasted longer with Dennis than with Bob, and when Bob was ill, Dennis filled in on the daytime show.  It probably would have lasted just as long.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: RMF on May 11, 2019, 07:11:33 PM
Another possibly would be The Jokers Wild moving to 3pm.  However, i don't think it lasts opposite Another World, no? AW was all the rage in 73 with the Alice/Rachel/Steve triangle then, so i doubt that TJW survives that. Maybe P&G relaxes their policy and maybe CBS puts TJW opposite The Doctors?

Except that I'm imagining these issues emerging in late 1975/early 1976- by that point, The Joker's Wild had already left CBS, and there aren't many other options (assuming that the soaps are sacrosanct, that CBS isn't suddenly going to start programming the 1 PM time slot, and that they aren't going to move Match Game and Tattletales for no good reason).

One item I just realized typing this, however: if Gambit and High Rollers continued to be programmed against one another (a logical possibility in a world where Wheel ends up staying at 10:30), does this mean either of these shows get a longer run than in our timeline, where Price knocked out High Rollers and Wheel Gambit?
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: BrandonFG on May 12, 2019, 12:25:09 AM
The first of course was Mark L Walburg, who would later have hits and misses with other game shows, then Jason Grant Smith, who I thought was the best fit for the series, then Dee Bradley Baker... talented voice artist, annoying as the sidekick IMO. I had said a long time ago that both Dee Baker and Jay Stewart dressed up in silly costumes, but the biggest difference was that when Jay did it, the show's dignity remained intact.
I think you're expecting a lot from a basic cable game show, given the goofy stunts performed (http://youtube.com/watch?v=CRlUBSqPcho&t=4m37s). Dee dressing up as a grandma or whatever - bizarre as it may have been - is on the producers. Dee, as the actor, is simply going along with the routine and collecting his paycheck.

Also...much as I love Let's Make a Deal, it wasn't exactly Shakespeare either, nor was it a critical darling.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: whewfan on May 12, 2019, 10:10:15 AM
Dee especially had a lot of exposure and opportunities to do characters in the final season before STYD became "Costco STYD" with JD Roberto. They even had still shots of him modeling the prizes as Grandma or whomever, so obviously the sponsors were very good sports.

Perhaps Dee was following orders, but he did sometimes upstage Pat Finn. It may be a little unfair to compare him to Jay Stewart, because Jay was able to be silly without taking away the attention from Monty or the contestant. By many accounts, Jay relished being in costume and doing the show, and according to Monty would throw a fit if he wasn't required to be in costume for a taping.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: danderson on May 12, 2019, 11:12:55 AM
I've always wondered about how the ratings for Price is Right and Another World were at 3:00. AW was the #1 soap, while TPIR was the #1 game show then.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: calliaume on May 12, 2019, 11:32:59 AM
I've always wondered about how the ratings for Price is Right and Another World were at 3:00. AW was the #1 soap, while TPIR was the #1 game show then.
Another World was never the #1 soap; As the World Turns was #1 for twenty straight seasons, per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._daytime_soap_opera_ratings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._daytime_soap_opera_ratings) (which uses Soap Opera Encyclopedia as it source; apparently those numbers came from the Nielsen ratings).  Another World was a solid #2 or #3 during the early to mid 1970s.

TPIR didn't hit #1 until 1979-1980, per EoTVGS - in fact, it was only in the top three once until 1978-1979.

Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: danderson on May 13, 2019, 10:14:07 AM
I've always wondered about how the ratings for Price is Right and Another World were at 3:00. AW was the #1 soap, while TPIR was the #1 game show then.
Another World was never the #1 soap; As the World Turns was #1 for twenty straight seasons, per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._daytime_soap_opera_ratings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._daytime_soap_opera_ratings) (which uses Soap Opera Encyclopedia as it source; apparently those numbers came from the Nielsen ratings).  Another World was a solid #2 or #3 during the early to mid 1970s.

TPIR didn't hit #1 until 1979-1980, per EoTVGS - in fact, it was only in the top three once until 1978-1979.
ATWT was quite popular- in fact it regularly was getting a 13 and that was very high for a daytime show, no?
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: TLEberle on May 13, 2019, 11:43:31 AM
It sounds like you could tell us, Dan.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: PYLdude on May 13, 2019, 11:28:14 PM
I've always wondered about how the ratings for Price is Right and Another World were at 3:00. AW was the #1 soap, while TPIR was the #1 game show then.
Another World was never the #1 soap; As the World Turns was #1 for twenty straight seasons, per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._daytime_soap_opera_ratings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._daytime_soap_opera_ratings) (which uses Soap Opera Encyclopedia as it source; apparently those numbers came from the Nielsen ratings).  Another World was a solid #2 or #3 during the early to mid 1970s.

TPIR didn't hit #1 until 1979-1980, per EoTVGS - in fact, it was only in the top three once until 1978-1979.



Prefaced with "outright". AW tied for the lead a couple of times, with the last coming the same year that ATWT last led the ratings pack.
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: calliaume on May 14, 2019, 05:25:51 PM
Another World was never the #1 soap; As the World Turns was #1 for twenty straight seasons, per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._daytime_soap_opera_ratings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._daytime_soap_opera_ratings) (which uses Soap Opera Encyclopedia as it source; apparently those numbers came from the Nielsen ratings).  Another World was a solid #2 or #3 during the early to mid 1970s.
Prefaced with "outright". AW tied for the lead a couple of times, with the last coming the same year that ATWT last led the ratings pack.
You're correct.  I scanned through the Wikipedia article too quickly.

So, from October 1973- April 1974, the 3 PM/4 PM time slot competition looked like this:

CBS:  3:00 - The (New) Price Is Right/3:30 - Match Game '7X
NBC:  3:00 - Another World/3:30 - Return to Peyton Place/How to Survive a Marriage
ABC:  3:00 - General Hospital/One Life to Live

I would love to see what the actual ratings were for the two games during that season.  (I could scan through all the back issues of Broadcasting magazine, but I really don't have that kind of time.)  Another World had a 9.7 rating and General Hospital a 9.2; if Price was in that ballpark it means nearly 30 percent of all the households with a television set had them on at 3:00 in the afternoon and were watching one of those three programs (apparently the total number of television households in in 1974 was roughly 66.8 million).
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: snowpeck on May 14, 2019, 05:44:19 PM
I would love to see what the actual ratings were for the two games during that season.  (I could scan through all the back issues of Broadcasting magazine, but I really don't have that kind of time.)  Another World had a 9.7 rating and General Hospital a 9.2; if Price was in that ballpark it means nearly 30 percent of all the households with a television set had them on at 3:00 in the afternoon and were watching one of those three programs (apparently the total number of television households in in 1974 was roughly 66.8 million).

All I could find in Broadcasting were season-to-date numbers through 5/12/74, but Price had a rating of 6.4 and Match Game '74 had a 10.1. The same article had General Hospital at 9.2 and Another World at 9.6. How to Survive a Marriage had a 6.3 and One Life to Live a 7.9.

The article points out that MG74's staggering ratings are largely a result of younger viewers, saying that "took some of the bloom off the rose."
Title: Re: Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right
Post by: Jamey Greek on October 30, 2019, 09:11:05 PM
Let's say James does the daytime version up until his death in 1997.

Who takes the show over at that time?

I would say Bob Goen