The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Jeremy Nelson on October 28, 2010, 11:13:28 AM
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Let's say someone is taking a survey to be used on Family Feud and they just give outright wrong information (i.e. answering Ben Frankin as a US President kids learn about in school). Is that answer "thrown out" of the poll, causing a clean sweep in a round to only be worth 84 points?
Is it the same case for answers that are matter of opinion, but outlandish (answering lemon as a fruit with an edible skin- it wouldn't be the most pleasant to digest, but it's edible, nonetheless)?
Are survey takers allowed to leave answers blank if they can't think of something? I imagine since they're surveyed on that question, they're still counted in that 100 person poll regardless of whether they give an answer or not.
Just a couple thoughts this morning.
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Wow....sorry this kept posting; didn't know how work slow and frustrating work computer could be until now! Can one of the mods delete the other two threads of this? Thanks, and sorry!
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My understanding is that factually wrong information has turned up in surveys before, though I couldn't give you an example. Ultimately, there's no reason such answers should be thrown out. Feud has never been about the "right" answer, just the most popular, and there are a lot of factually wrong things that many people believe anyway.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'249822\' date=\'Oct 28 2010, 10:32 AM\']My understanding is that factually wrong information has turned up in surveys before, though I couldn't give you an example.[/quote]
I can. I remember a survey about things with four legs, and "insects" was somewhere in the middle of the list. I'd bet more than one entymologist was yelling at the TV.
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There was a Dawson episode once where they asked about Goodson-Todman game shows. One contestant said The Gong Show. It wasn't on the survey, but I wonder if they would have included it if a bunch of people actually said it. I'm guessing probably not.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'249822\' date=\'Oct 28 2010, 10:32 AM\']My understanding is that factually wrong information has turned up in surveys before, though I couldn't give you an example. Ultimately, there's no reason such answers should be thrown out. Feud has never been about the "right" answer, just the most popular, and there are a lot of factually wrong things that many people believe anyway.[/quote]
That may be true, but let's use my example; if the other family names all but one president in the Triple round, and we lose the game because Ben Franklin showed up, and he's not a US President, I'm gonna be a little peeved and would probably protest. Yeah, the survey takers are Americans, and there are a lot of dumb ones out there. But I don't care if that last answer is Franklin Pierce; if it's a US President, then I'm cool with that, because that's the "category" where my answers are supposed to come from. I know that we're looking for what the survey takers would say, and not what we would say. But I've also got to hope that the game is fair enough that they'll only post answers on the board that actually fall within the parameters of the question, regardless of of how "out there" they are.
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I believe that an answer must be included in the survey if at least 2 people provided it.
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[quote name=\'gameboy2000\' post=\'249828\' date=\'Oct 28 2010, 09:09 AM\']I believe that an answer must be included in the survey if at least 2 people provided it.[/quote]
Bingo - we have a winner.
That's why only responses given by 2 or more resspondents are on the board.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'gameboy2000\' post=\'249828\' date=\'Oct 28 2010, 09:09 AM\']I believe that an answer must be included in the survey if at least 2 people provided it.[/quote]
You guys realize the surveys don't go straight from the respondees to the game board, right?
I mean, I agree with Matt in that there's no reason that should invalidate the survey, but Jeremy's point about being screwed by a bunch of idiots who think Michael Jackson is on the $20 bill is totally valid, too, especially considering what horrific television such a screwing would make for. "Oh, you underestimated the stupidity of the average American! You get nothing, you lose, good day, sirs!"
I would have to think that the show's writers go through the survey results and select the questions for broadcast whose results work best with the game. If they got back a survey where Ben Franklin qualified for the board in a Presidential question, I would think they would sigh and send the question out again in a future survey with the hopes that they got smarter respondees next time, or look at the question and see if the wording was vague. Either way, I don't think it would air.
(I could also see them surveying, say, 120 people on a given question, and dropping 20 answers off to cover the bozo factor. They don't say "we surveyed 100 people, no more, no less.")
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I've been tracking "Family Feud" main game surveys for a few years now, and here's what I've learned:
While it's true that a response cannot earn points unless it was given by two of the people surveyed, that does not mean that all responses given by at least two people will be displayed on the board. They're obligated to show the top x answers, but they can choose where the cutoff for x is. So if four survey respondents said "Benjamin Franklin," the producers could choose to only display the answers that received five or more responses.
Last season, I saw a few instances where a survey from a few years ago was reused, but this time around, they included more lower-scoring responses to make the round last longer. This season, I've seen a few repeat surveys where they've cut off some of the lower-scoring responses so Steve Harvey has more time to ad-lib.
(Alternately, they can put the question with the factually-inaccurate response in Fast Money, where it's less likely they'll have to acknowledge that it was worth points.)
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[quote name=\'MSTieScott\' post=\'249842\' date=\'Oct 28 2010, 10:58 AM\'](Alternately, they can put the question with the factually-inaccurate response in Fast Money, where it's less likely they'll have to acknowledge that it was worth points.)[/quote]
True this too. Fast Money is a great way to use content that doesn't work well with the maingame for whatever reasons, so long as the top 2-3 answers are worth the right number of points.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'249822\' date=\'Oct 28 2010, 08:32 AM\']My understanding is that factually wrong information has turned up in surveys before, though I couldn't give you an example.[/quote]
From a Dawson-era episodes, "Penguin" made the survey for (something along the lines of) "Name something you might find at the North Pole."
Sort of like on Match Game 7x when a Super Match audience match question had only two reasonably obvious answers (example: Werner _____ had Werner Klemperer, Werner von Braun, and Werner Brothers).
-- Don
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One of favorites from the O'Hurley era "Name a reason you would leave your TV on when you are not home" One of the players said "To record a program" it was up there with I think with 5 people.
I seem to remember a question about Presidents who are on money and Franklin being on the Board.
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[quote name=\'Chuck Sutton\' post=\'249883\' date=\'Oct 29 2010, 12:51 PM\']One of favorites from the O'Hurley era "Name a reason you would leave your TV on when you are not home" One of the players said "To record a program" it was up there with I think with 5 people.[/quote]
But that's the thing; there's a difference between questions that are a matter of opinion and a matter of fact. Your example is just a gauge of human behavior (not to mention that I knew people who kept their TVs on to record programs back when they had VCRs.)
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[quote name=\'Jeremy Nelson\' post=\'249887\' date=\'Oct 29 2010, 02:52 PM\'](not to mention that I knew people who kept their TVs on to record programs back when they had VCRs.)[/quote]
Chuck's point is that unless you have a really wacky setup, there's never a need to have the TV on in order to record a program, even with a VCR. The TV is merely a monitor that shows you what it is that you're recording. Still, that's something of a nuance for most people, and a little bit different than saying Benjamin Franklin was a president, or penguins are found on the north pole.
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[quote name=\'Jeremy Nelson\' post=\'249827\' date=\'Oct 28 2010, 12:04 PM\']That may be true, but let's use my example; if the other family names all but one president in the Triple round, and we lose the game because Ben Franklin showed up, and he's not a US President, I'm gonna be a little peeved and would probably protest.[/quote]
Still you are only going to lose if the other team steals with Benjiman Franklin. If they steal with something else you would have lost anyway. Once you go through the obvious answers, everyone since Reagan, with Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Rossevelt, Kennedy,. . . If something's left, what's honestly a better guess, Benjiman Franklin or Franklin Pierce?
It's also why if the show used the survey in this case they would probably use it early, when it is unlikely to effect the results. They can show it at the end of the round and everyone can laugh that "5" persons think Benjiman Franklin was a president.
How far do you take it? Yesterday they had "Name an animal whose stomach is ALWAYS touching the GROUND?" The person said Alligator, I thought "alligators spend a lot of time in the water, what a bad answer" It was #2.
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[quote name=\'Chuck Sutton\' post=\'249899\' date=\'Oct 30 2010, 05:48 AM\']Still you are only going to lose if the other team steals with Benjiman Franklin.[/quote]
Quoting (and emphasizing) for comprehension.
[quote name=\'Jeremy Nelson\' post=\'249827\' date=\'Oct 28 2010, 12:04 PM\']if the other family names all but one president in the Triple round[/quote]
Meaning that Jeremy's family now has *no chance* to steal.
Yes, now you're going to say "well, shoulda won the question." It's still unsatisfying television.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'249902\' date=\'Oct 30 2010, 12:43 PM\']Meaning that Jeremy's family now has *no chance* to steal.[/quote]
Sure they do. The object of the game is to come up with the answers on the survey, whether they're factually accurate or not. If "Benjamin Franklin" is what it takes to steal a question about presidents, then that's what it takes. I really don't see any grounds for a protest, either. The game is simply not about "correct" answers, nor is it the show's job to eliminate "wrong" ones. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this is covered in their rules.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'249841\' date=\'Oct 28 2010, 12:29 PM\'](I could also see them surveying, say, 120 people on a given question, and dropping 20 answers off to cover the bozo factor. They don't say "we surveyed 100 people, no more, no less.")[/quote]
I always figured they asked, say, 200 people and made it a percentage but used the "100 people" verbiage so that the average viewer wouldn't be put off hearing that complicated word "percent." What you mention seems shifty at first blush, just because I've always assumed a percentage. But then, that's my assumption and it's just a game anyway.
In these days of scrimping and saving, I wouldn't be shocked if they surveyed 50 people and just doubled everything.
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I remember a celeb FF episode with Ray Combs. Jayne Meadows one of the celebs. I believe it was women vs. men and Steve Allen among others was on the men's team I believe this was a nighttime episode. Anyway the final face-off question was "Name a government agency." Naturally, the FBI and CIA were on the survey. The last answer that no one got was the POLICE DEPT. Clearly, that was an answer no one thought of (mainlky because it's not correct) but two people said it so it was on the survey. Yeah, it kinda blows, but that's how the game works.
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On a Dawson episode, a Fast Money question went "Name a country that gets a lot of snow." Alaska scored 12, Canada scored 11. Whether they were being generous and accepting Alaska as the U.S., I don't know.
-Jason
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[quote name=\'BillCullen1\' post=\'249907\' date=\'Oct 30 2010, 12:17 PM\']... the final face-off question was "Name a government agency." Naturally, the FBI and CIA were on the survey. The last answer that no one got was the POLICE DEPT. Clearly, that was an answer no one thought of (mainlky because it's not correct) but two people said it so it was on the survey. Yeah, it kinda blows, but that's how the game works.[/quote]
They didn't say to name a Federal government agency. Is the police an agency of local government? Yes, so not a BFD.
[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'249914\' date=\'Oct 30 2010, 01:40 PM\']On a Dawson episode, a Fast Money question went "Name a country that gets a lot of snow." Alaska scored 12, Canada scored 11. Whether they were being generous and accepting Alaska as the U.S., I don't know.[/quote]
That's precisely what happened.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'249904\' date=\'Oct 30 2010, 11:51 AM\']The game is simply not about "correct" answers, nor is it the show's job to eliminate "wrong" ones. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this is covered in their rules.[/quote]
Discussions about what constitutes a correct answer on Feud always reminds me of this (http://\"http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/common-knowledge/2879/\").
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Scott has it right. Howard used to edit the survey results and would eliminate a response naming Ben Franklin as a president. He would also combine answers: If the question were "Name something sweet" and 10 people said fruit and one person said watermelon, he would combine watermelon with fruit and make fruit worth 11 points. I specifically remember Howard editing the Goodson-Todman question and he remarked that the polling group was correct in all of its responses.
Scott will correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall that all of the surveys add up to exactly 100 points. All they said on the air was "100 people surveyed. Top x answers on the board ..." without claiming that the answers totalled 100 points.
The object of the game is to come up with the answers on the survey, whether they're factually accurate or not. If "Benjamin Franklin" is what it takes to steal a question about presidents, then that's what it takes. I really don't see any grounds for a protest, either. The game is simply not about "correct" answers, nor is it the show's job to eliminate "wrong" ones.
Oh come now, that's just absurd. Do you really think old man Goodson would produce a show that way?
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'249918\' date=\'Oct 30 2010, 04:21 PM\']Oh come now, that's just absurd. Do you really think old man Goodson would produce a show that way?[/quote]
I said at the start of this thread that I couldn't give a specific example of factually incorrect material making its way to the board, but several other people have, most citing examples from the Dawson era. If that's absurd, take it up with them.
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And per Randy West in an old post (yes, I save some of these tidbits for fear the posts go belly up a'la our first couple of years):
When Feud requested home audience members to participate in the surveys they were inundated, and had enough respondents to last for years, rotating among the thousands of participants. When participants were sent surveys the protocol was to capture the first 200 that were received back at GT, then use a geographic weighting system to select the 100 to be used.
A cursory glance over the questions I use at Christmas shows America thinks parrots and swans can't fly.
-Jason
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If that's absurd, take it up with them.
The rationale you gave for allowing incorrect answers into the surveys is what's absurd.
The "Alaska" answer is likely why that was a Fast Money question.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'249926\' date=\'Oct 30 2010, 05:25 PM\']The rationale you gave for allowing incorrect answers into the surveys is what's absurd.[/quote]
The example I gave is simply one way a round could play out, if the one factually incorrect answer happened to be what was left. Either there are factually incorrect answers or there aren't, and if there are, it might be necessary for a family to figure them out in order to steal. I fail to see the absurdity.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'249918\' date=\'Oct 30 2010, 04:21 PM\']Scott will correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall that all of the surveys add up to exactly 100 points. All they said on the air was "100 people surveyed. Top x answers on the board ..." without claiming that the answers totalled 100 points.[/quote]
I'm pretty sure I've seen an episode where the points available only added up to say, 97 or so...
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'249918\' date=\'Oct 30 2010, 01:21 PM\']Scott will correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall that all of the surveys add up to exactly 100 points. All they said on the air was "100 people surveyed. Top x answers on the board ..." without claiming that the answers totalled 100 points.[/quote]
They rarely do, in fact, but they can usually write that off to not counting singleton answers.
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[quote name=\'Chuck Sutton\' post=\'249899\' date=\'Oct 30 2010, 07:48 AM\']If something's left, what's honestly a better guess, Benjiman Franklin or Franklin Pierce?[/quote]I'm going with Franklin Pierce, because its in the spirit of the question. I don't think I should have to think "outside the box" to account for the stupid people in this country.
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OK, that's all fine and good, Mark, but I think something that's getting lost in this is that if you get returns of Franklin and Hamilton to "name a president found on our money," that those in charge are going to look at that and re-ask the question as "name a person on our money," instead of that deal where you get penalized for not properly reading the minds of the pollees.
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Here's the ultimate example of a factually incorrect answer that made it. (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y105bcihaW8#t=3m05s\")
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Perhaps slightly off-topic, but at least tangentially related: When we play Feud with the math students at the Governor's Honors Program each summer, we aim for the top 5-7 answers for each question. This occasionally means that some of the answers we use are indeed wrong. (An example: One year. for "Name any computer programming language," several of the students answered, "DOS.") However, the survey answers we use are given by the math students themselves, in a poll that we take on the first night of the program approximately three weeks ahead of the contest. As a result, we don't feel obligated to weed out incorrect answers.
We have had similar issues when playing games such as Pyramid and Go with the kids. It's rare, but occasionally the person (people) giving the clue will say something incorrect, but somehow the receiver will discern the right answer. Admittedly, we've varied in how we've dealt with this; for example, in Go, we did alter the rules to state that the word in play must be a reasonably correct answer to the clue question. (It's also why I'm SOOO glad we don't use Go as one of the games any more.)
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[quote name=\'davidhammett\' post=\'249951\' date=\'Oct 31 2010, 12:06 PM\'](It's also why I'm SOOO glad we don't use Go as one of the games any more.)[/quote]In trying the game out among a group of friends, I found that one person (out of the six that you need) can absolutely grind the game to a halt if he doesn't get the concept.
We didn't play it again after that.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'249937\' date=\'Oct 30 2010, 10:45 PM\']I'm pretty sure I've seen an episode where the points available only added up to say, 97 or so...[/quote]
Check out any Double round this season where one family has won both of the first two questions. I've seen surveys with only about 57 pre-doubled points up for grabs. Again, because they've lopped off all of the seven-point responses, the six-point responses, et cetera.
On the subject of factually inaccurate information being on the board, I remember a question asking for an insect in which "spider" was #2. I also remember "Name an animal with spots." The final displayed answer was "tiger," and while everybody expressed confusion, John O'Hurley walked back to the face-off stand, where they had hidden a picture of a young tiger with spots on its head to prove that the answer was correct.
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[quote name=\'MSTieScott\' post=\'249994\' date=\'Nov 1 2010, 02:01 PM\']On the subject of factually inaccurate information being on the board, I remember a question asking for an insect in which "spider" was #2.[/quote]
And this is my point. As a player, you can't just go "Well, I'm sure as hell not going to say 'spider', because that's not factually accurate." Whether it's spiders or penguins or Ben Franklin, you have to come up with the answers that are up there, whether they're "right" or not.
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Forgive the very amateur (i.e. free from Comcast) website, but I posted scans of an actual Feud survey I filled out for the show.
LINK : http://home.comcast.net/~joshguers/site/ (http://\"http://home.comcast.net/~joshguers/site/\")
Josh