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The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Lirodon on June 03, 2010, 01:10:28 AM

Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Lirodon on June 03, 2010, 01:10:28 AM
According to several reports (http://\"http://buzzerblog.flashgameshows.com/price-is-right-gets-new-pricing-game-rat-race/\"), a new pricing game called Rat Race will debut on June 16th. Although many on G-R are already dubbing it the "best game of the decade" (heck, technically isn't this the only new game of the decade 0_0), I'm not quite sure about this.

Basically, its a 3 prize game, contestant tries to price 3 small prizes within specific ranges (Walk of Fame style), and for each correct guess they get to pick one of 5 rats in the titular race. Picking the rat that finishes 3rd earns the lower prize, finishing 2nd earns the medium prize, and finishing 1st earns the major prize. Right away to me this seems a lot like a carbon copy of Master Key with small adjustments (different front game, 3 "keys" rather than 2), although we'll have to see it in play before we make our final judgment on this. Apparently Drew himself had involvement in the creation of this game, so I'm not sure what to think about that either.

Any thoughts?

p.s. I also randomly tweeted about how crusty looking around the edges Bonus Game is looking in HD, and Drew just confirmed that Bonus Game is among the games being prepped for a refurbishment next season.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on June 03, 2010, 01:43:36 AM
[quote name=\'Lirodon\' post=\'241795\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 01:10 AM\']According to several reports (http://\"http://buzzerblog.flashgameshows.com/price-is-right-gets-new-pricing-game-rat-race/\"), a new pricing game called Rat Race will debut on June 16th. Although many on G-R are already dubbing it the "best game of the decade" (heck, technically isn't this the only new game of the decade 0_0)[/quote]
Interesting how you managed to be aware of this and still miss the point.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: ClockGameJohn on June 03, 2010, 01:58:44 AM
[quote name=\'Lirodon\' post=\'241795\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 01:10 AM\']Picking the rat that finishes 3rd earns the lower prize, finishing 2nd earns the medium prize, and finishing 1st earns all three prizes. Right away to me this seems a lot like a carbon copy of Master Key with small adjustments (different front game, 3 "keys" rather than 2)[/quote]

The mouse that finishes first is for the car.  There is no Master Mouse.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Joe Mello on June 03, 2010, 02:08:25 AM
I think I'd like this slightly more if the top prize wasn't a car.

I'm interested to see the execution for this.  My mind's eye pictures it as sort of a Plinko/Marble Run hybrid
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: TLEberle on June 03, 2010, 02:14:09 AM
[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'241799\' date=\'Jun 2 2010, 11:08 PM\']I think I'd like this slightly more if the top prize wasn't a car.[/quote] I'd like this more if there wasn't the chance of no rat finishing it. You can win all three rats and no prize. Boo boo boo.

Quote
I'm interested to see the execution for this.  My mind's eye pictures it as sort of a Plinko/Marble Run hybrid
My guess is that they won't do that because they wouldn't try to copy another game too closely (to wit, calling the Let 'em Win dice "cubes"). It'll probably be a slightly inclined (if at all) table with appropriate decore.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: tvrandywest on June 03, 2010, 02:15:30 AM
[quote name=\'ClockGameJohn\' post=\'241798\' date=\'Jun 2 2010, 10:58 PM\']....  There is no Master Mouse.[/quote]
No, but I heard the Nazis were working on this!

Randy
tvrandywest.com
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: WilliamPorygon on June 03, 2010, 03:47:15 AM
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'241800\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 02:14 AM\']I'd like this more if there wasn't the chance of no rat finishing it. You can win all three rats and no prize. Boo boo boo.[/quote]
There's 5 rats to choose from.
You can win up to 3 picks.
Prizes are awarded for picking 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place.

Seems to me if you win all 3 picks the worst you can do is to get only the 3rd place rat's prize.

---

EDIT:
The more I read about this game, the more it looks like a train wreck waiting to happen.  So apparently there's the possibility of some (or even all?) of the rats not even finishing, and thus the possibility mentioned of not winning anything with all 3 picks.  In fact, if at least 3 of the 5 rats don't make it to the finish, then some of the prizes won't even be winnable.  Also, since the results of the race aren't predetermined and they are actually racing wind-up toy mice "live", there's the possibility of photo finishes and results being too close to call.

The concept could work, but it really would have to be with something like cutouts on a Hurdles-type board to guarantee all the rats finish (or the top three at least) and that it's easily clear which was first, second, and third.  The results also really should determined ahead of time (and if they're dead-set against that for whatever reason, at the very least, it should be randomized by computer on the spot).  As it stands, this seems like it could end up being the biggest debacle since Professor Price.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: chris319 on June 03, 2010, 07:58:39 AM
If a contestant's chosen rat doesn't finish they would have to stop and redo the race. If one of the non-chosen rats doesn't finish it's moot.

It will be a good test of how well Mikey and R. Brian can mount a new game.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Jimmy Owen on June 03, 2010, 08:00:14 AM
I think Oscar the Wonder Rodent retired.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: aaron sica on June 03, 2010, 08:51:28 AM
So besides Barker, who are the other 4 rats?
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: TheLastResort on June 03, 2010, 10:46:23 AM
[quote name=\'ClockGameJohn\' post=\'241798\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 01:58 AM\']There is no Master Mouse.[/quote]

What do you use to catch a Master Mouse?

Master Bait.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Lirodon on June 03, 2010, 10:49:31 AM
I must've confused "You can will all 3, 2 of them" as a suggestion that finishing 1st wins all 3, there is no "super/master rat", but still, I rest my case since this may be the only new game of the decade so far if someone counts the end of the decade as being at the end of 2010.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: TLEberle on June 03, 2010, 11:05:43 AM
[quote name=\'Lirodon\' post=\'241819\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 07:49 AM\']but still, I rest my case since this may be the only new game of the decade so far if someone counts the end of the decade as being at the end of 2010.[/quote]Erm, yay?
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: JasonA1 on June 03, 2010, 11:27:22 AM
On paper, it's a decent enough idea. I wasn't going to dismiss it on its face. How sane did a yodeling mountain climber look at first? Of course, I pictured this in my head as a more elaborate mechanical game, where there's a master reveal of which rat wins what (a'la Switcheroo; a model could come up and prove which was which). Already it's been pointed out that we'll know if the car is won or not first, which could be a problem. If they're insisting on staying with this same sort of idea, it would be considerably less complicated if the car were the only thing at stake. Then, with somehow predetermined "rats," have the contestant try to win the one that will finish the race. Then again, that's similar to other games already.

As it stands, my confidence in their ability to handle the reveal is shaky. I can hear the emcee language in my head. I hope they have something close to that when it hits the air. Awarding prizes for 3rd and 2nd place in a makeshift race sounds closer to something one of us would cook up, caring more about the "game" part of "game show."

-Jason
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Jimmy Owen on June 03, 2010, 11:53:52 AM
They could accomplish the race with animation of some sort.  It would look awful (a la Illinois Luckiest), but it could be done.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: chris319 on June 03, 2010, 12:32:57 PM
Quote
I can hear the emcee language in my head.
That may be the only place you hear it. I don't know whether M. the R. is hip to the concept of scripted lines the emcee has to memorize. I've a feeling they simply teach Drew how the games work and let him fumble around as to how to describe it. As an aside, years ago somebody showed me the first playing of some pricing game or other under Barker, and Barker's description of the game didn't make a damn bit of sense.

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'241825\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 08:53 AM\']They could accomplish the race with animation of some sort.  It would look awful (a la Illinois Luckiest), but it could be done.[/quote]
Well, not really. Using mechanical rats gives you a random outcome. Animation means the outcome is predetermined and you have to convince the audience that the outcome isn't being controlled on the fly, if you get my meaning.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Jeremy Nelson on June 03, 2010, 12:38:35 PM
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'241831\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 11:32 AM\']Animation means the outcome is predetermined and you have to convince the audience that the outcome isn't being controlled on the fly, if you get my meaning.[/quote]
One of the things that Atinale Al Precio does with Master Key is reveal which key wins what at the end of the game (there's a little switch on the key table that reveals the key makeup). Maybe they can do something like that with the new game.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: ClockGameJohn on June 03, 2010, 12:39:46 PM
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'241804\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 07:58 AM\']If a contestant's chosen rat doesn't finish they would have to stop and redo the race.[/quote]

Not true.

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'241804\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 07:58 AM\']It will be a good test of how well Mikey and R. Brian can mount a new game.[/quote]

From what I've heard, Rich DiPirro had his thoughts as the director of how this game should be staged and shot, but Mike as the EP had his way which led to a extremely long (better part of an hour) heated and drawn out argument in the booth.

Mike has already put his mark on a new game and that will be forthcoming after the Rat Race.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: chris319 on June 03, 2010, 12:54:55 PM
Quote
If a contestant's chosen rat doesn't finish they would have to stop and redo the race.

Not true.
And you have this on what authority? What would they do if none of the five finished the race?
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: ClockGameJohn on June 03, 2010, 01:04:42 PM
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'241835\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 12:54 PM\']
Quote
If a contestant's chosen rat doesn't finish they would have to stop and redo the race.

Not true.
And you have this on what authority?
[/quote]

There has already been a list devised of all possible scenarios (that they have thought of) and what to do if such occurs.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Jimmy Owen on June 03, 2010, 01:06:17 PM
Here's how I would do it:  5 prizes (close in price) described.  Contestant picks the most expensive, which becomes his rat in the race. The distance your rat goes depends on its prize's price. Win the race and win all prizes + car.  Lose the race and go home with only your "rat"-the prize you thought was most expensive.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: clemon79 on June 03, 2010, 01:11:50 PM
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'241837\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 10:06 AM\']Here's how I would do it:  5 prizes (close in price) described.  Contestant picks the most expensive, which becomes his rat in the race. The distance your rat goes depends on its prize's price. Win the race and win all prizes + car.  Lose the race and go home with only your "rat"-the prize you thought was most expensive.[/quote]
In other words, you'd slap Yet Another Skin on Most Expensive.

Say what you will about the current leadership (and Lord knows people have, and will continue to), but at least this is a halfway-original idea. I dunno if it's a GOOD idea (I certainly question the anticlimactic-ness of losing out on the top prize before the game ends and then playing for 2nd or 3rd), but at least it's original.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: chris319 on June 03, 2010, 01:17:05 PM
Quote
There has already been a list devised of all possible scenarios (that they have thought of) and what to do if such occurs.
So what's the answer to my question? What happens if none of the five rats makes it to the finish line?

Quote
From what I've heard, Rich DiPirro had his thoughts as the director of how this game should be staged and shot, but Mike as the EP had his way which led to a extremely long (better part of an hour) heated and drawn out argument in the booth.
They should have had this figured out before the game was built (c.f. Super Ball).
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: ClockGameJohn on June 03, 2010, 01:19:06 PM
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'241839\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 01:17 PM\']
Quote
From what I've heard, Rich DiPirro had his thoughts as the director of how this game should be staged and shot, but Mike as the EP had his way which led to a extremely long (better part of an hour) heated and drawn out argument in the booth.
They should have had this figured out before the game was built (c.f. Super Ball).
[/quote]

No, this was a "hurry up and spend $80,000 to please Drew" move.  (So I'm told)
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: chris319 on June 03, 2010, 01:35:25 PM
Quote
No, this was a "hurry up and spend $80,000 to please Drew" move. (So I'm told)
It matters not. There is still time to spend an hour or two figuring out how to stage and shoot it before a) spending $80,000 to have it built, and b) having the discussion with the meter ticking on full facilities. Anyone who has ever produced even the simplest TV or movie production could tell you this.

BTW, you've practically revealed your source of inside information ;-)
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: ClockGameJohn on June 03, 2010, 01:51:18 PM
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'241841\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 01:35 PM\']BTW, you've practically revealed your source of inside information ;-)[/quote]

I definitely have not, because it's been multiple sources.   The nice thing about the state of that place right now is that no one is ever short of venting their frustrations.

Although, depending on who else you ask, the studio is filled with unicorns and leprechauns on soft puffy clouds these days.  I think you know better.   ;)

With the news that came public today, let's just wait and see how the week finishes out.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: chris319 on June 03, 2010, 02:05:03 PM
Quote
I definitely have not, because it's been multiple sources.
One of them is blatantly obvious.

Quote
Although, depending on who else you ask, the studio is filled with unicorns and leprechauns on soft puffy clouds these days. I think you know better. ;)
And the crew gets more overtime because they run over in the studio so often.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: ClockGameJohn on June 03, 2010, 02:07:22 PM
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'241844\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 02:05 PM\']
Quote
I definitely have not, because it's been multiple sources.
One of them is blatantly obvious.
[/quote]

E-mail.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: BrandonFG on June 03, 2010, 03:26:41 PM
I like the concept, hate the idea of 5 rats.

I understand that having only 3 rats makes the game anticlimactic if the contestant correctly prices all three prizes. However, I think if your rat doesn't place at all, there should be some sort of consolation to soften the blow of not winning a single prize, say $500 for 4th, $250 for 5th. The idea of doing everything right, but still losing really does not sit right with me.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Joe Mello on June 03, 2010, 05:50:28 PM
[quote name=\'WilliamPorygon\' post=\'241802\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 03:47 AM\']they are actually racing wind-up toy mice "live"[/quote]
And this is where they would lose me.  There are so many reasons why using toy mice is a bad idea.  Why can't you just refurbish/modify a half-dozen computer mice, and build a gravity-dependent, maze-like course?  It'd be medium-scale soap box derby.

Getting back to an earlier point, the reason I don't like it as a car game is because of a) the reveal and b) because it's another example of the "Cars, Cash, and Trips" mentality that I find stupid.  I'd rather it be for 3 nice prizes a la Superball and only sometimes for a car.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: TheLastResort on June 03, 2010, 06:24:53 PM
[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'241868\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 05:50 PM\']Why can't you just refurbish/modify a half-dozen computer mice, and build a gravity-dependent, maze-like course?[/quote]

Maybe because it would be meaningless and stupid?
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: TheLastResort on June 03, 2010, 06:28:19 PM
New game coming next season!  It's called Roach Hotel, and it's played for three trips.  Each roach has a price tag attached to its antennae, and you have to put each roach in the hotel that goes with the trip with the matching price.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Dbacksfan12 on June 03, 2010, 07:17:08 PM
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'241849\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 02:26 PM\']The idea of doing everything right, but still losing really does not sit right with me.[/quote]Same could have been said with 1/2 off prior to Drew's arrival.

That said, I think its better than the flip side of it--doing everything wrong and still getting something for it (e.g. Plinko).
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: BrandonFG on June 03, 2010, 07:26:18 PM
[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'241880\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 07:17 PM\'][quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'241849\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 02:26 PM\']The idea of doing everything right, but still losing really does not sit right with me.[/quote]Same could have been said with 1/2 off prior to Drew's arrival.
[/quote]
I thought about 1/2-Off, but excluded it because they did later offer a consolation for getting all the way to the end and still coming up empty.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Unrealtor on June 03, 2010, 08:11:25 PM
My guess on what happens if a rat doesn't make it across is that they put it in order based on how far they did manage to go.

Personally, I wouldn't have minded having the winning rats picked in advance. Just put some kind of art card down at the finish line and let a model reveal that rat #3 was always going to come in first place. It's what would have been done for most of the last 38 years, if this game had been around then.

The concept sounds interesting, but I'm not sure that the execution is going to be great.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: JayDLewis on June 03, 2010, 08:23:27 PM
If you have to have a "rat race" why not do it ala Finish Line and/or Give or Keep? Attach the prices of the 3 you don't keep to one rat and the one you do keep to a 2nd rat.

It's not luck-based and there's a clear outcome.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: WhammyPower on June 03, 2010, 08:47:34 PM
Did Enrico Pollini get left out because his narcolepsy kicked in again?
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: TLEberle on June 03, 2010, 09:09:02 PM
[quote name=\'Unrealtor\' post=\'241885\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 05:11 PM\']My guess on what happens if a rat doesn't make it across is that they put it in order based on how far they did manage to go.[/quote]Except we've already been told, if a rat doesn't make it over the finish line, it can't win. So you can win all three play-in bits, none of the rats finish, and Drew throws to break.

Yay.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: TLEberle on June 03, 2010, 11:35:10 PM
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'241831\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 09:32 AM\']That may be the only place you hear it. I don't know whether M. the R. is hip to the concept of scripted lines the emcee has to memorize. I've a feeling they simply teach Drew how the games work and let him fumble around as to how to describe it.[/quote]The New Order of TPIR seems to think that they can reinvent everything without having to pay attention to why The Way Things Were Done, and they don't seem to be learning that lesson very well.

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'241825\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 08:53 AM\']Animation means the outcome is predetermined and you have to convince the audience that the outcome isn't being controlled on the fly, if you get my meaning.[/quote]Which is the reason why TPIR has pull tabs, cards and every sort of physical prop you can imagine, so that question doesn't enter into the mind of the viewer.

[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'241838\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 10:11 AM\']In other words, you'd slap Yet Another Skin on Most Expensive.[/quote]And I already think there are far too many of those "is the price X, Y or Z?" games where the contestant makes one decision and sits back down. I surely don't want another of them, no matter the chrome.

[quote name=\'TheLastResort\' post=\'241872\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 03:24 PM\']Maybe because it would be meaningless and stupid?[/quote]Except it wouldn't. You have a neat visual pun, actual props that would work (you have someone put a different amount of ballast in each mouse, making sure that three will finish) and you avoid a problem that should have been spotted and fixed in the first stage of development.


[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'241880\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 04:17 PM\']Same could have been said with 1/2 off prior to Drew's arrival.

That said, I think its better than the flip side of it--doing everything wrong and still getting something for it (e.g. Plinko[/quote]But you're still doing something; you had to win your way up on stage, right? And I'll happily say this for years and years: you don't wheel out your iconic game and then make winning chances so hard that the player to be only gets one chance. (And if that fluke happens, it is exciting when the $10k is hit.)

If there was an actual order that the five mice went in, at least getting all three play-ins wins you something. But viewers aren't going to like it when the game ends in a total anticlimax because the props don't have enough gas to get over the line.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Jimmy Owen on June 04, 2010, 12:06:51 AM
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'241904\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 11:35 PM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'241831\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 09:32 AM\']That may be the only place you hear it. I don't know whether M. the R. is hip to the concept of scripted lines the emcee has to memorize. I've a feeling they simply teach Drew how the games work and let him fumble around as to how to describe it.[/quote]The New Order of TPIR seems to think that they can reinvent everything without having to pay attention to why The Way Things Were Done, and they don't seem to be learning that lesson very well.

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'241825\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 08:53 AM\']Animation means the outcome is predetermined and you have to convince the audience that the outcome isn't being controlled on the fly, if you get my meaning.[/quote]Which is the reason why TPIR has pull tabs, cards and every sort of physical prop you can imagine, so that question doesn't enter into the mind of the viewer.

[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'241838\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 10:11 AM\']In other words, you'd slap Yet Another Skin on Most Expensive.[/quote]And I already think there are far too many of those "is the price X, Y or Z?" games where the contestant makes one decision and sits back down. I surely don't want another of them, no matter the chrome.

[quote name=\'TheLastResort\' post=\'241872\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 03:24 PM\']Maybe because it would be meaningless and stupid?[/quote]Except it wouldn't. You have a neat visual pun, actual props that would work (you have someone put a different amount of ballast in each mouse, making sure that three will finish) and you avoid a problem that should have been spotted and fixed in the first stage of development.


[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'241880\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 04:17 PM\']Same could have been said with 1/2 off prior to Drew's arrival.

That said, I think its better than the flip side of it--doing everything wrong and still getting something for it (e.g. Plinko[/quote]But you're still doing something; you had to win your way up on stage, right? And I'll happily say this for years and years: you don't wheel out your iconic game and then make winning chances so hard that the player to be only gets one chance. (And if that fluke happens, it is exciting when the $10k is hit.)

If there was an actual order that the five mice went in, at least getting all three play-ins wins you something. But viewers aren't going to like it when the game ends in a total anticlimax because the props don't have enough gas to get over the line.
[/quote]
Just for clarification's sake, that quote attributed to me was actually made by Chris Clementson.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: TLEberle on June 04, 2010, 12:08:49 AM
Quote
Just for clarification's sake, that quote attributed to me was actually made by Chris Clementson.
It was? Really? M'bad. I apologize. I figured that most of our lot was well-versed in the goings-on of game shows to realize why animation wouldn't be used in this instance, so I was surprised to see it brought up.

Hurry up and say something else so I can quote you, Jimmy. :)
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Mr. Brown on June 04, 2010, 02:31:49 PM
[quote name=\'ClockGameJohn\' post=\'241833\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 11:39 AM\']Mike has already put his mark on a new game and that will be forthcoming after the Rat Race.[/quote]

Mike's game can't be too bad -- he's shown absolutely no creativity on Let's Make a Deal (e.g. "Choose the curtain or the box!"), so I would expect an equal lack of creativity (and thus, a lesser possibility that the game is a clusterf***) here.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: ClockGameJohn on June 04, 2010, 03:10:18 PM
[quote name=\'Mr. Brown\' post=\'241930\' date=\'Jun 4 2010, 02:31 PM\'][quote name=\'ClockGameJohn\' post=\'241833\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 11:39 AM\']Mike has already put his mark on a new game and that will be forthcoming after the Rat Race.[/quote]

Mike's game can't be too bad -- he's shown absolutely no creativity on Let's Make a Deal (e.g. "Choose the curtain or the box!"), so I would expect an equal lack of creativity (and thus, a lesser possibility that the game is a clusterf***) here.
[/quote]

Ahhh, but this will soon show just exactly how little you know about this show.  ;)
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Bill Neuweiler on June 04, 2010, 03:25:30 PM
There are a lot of unclear speculations as to weather or not the mice will go the distance.  I would like to think that whomever is in charge would have the good sense to construct a game where this is not the case.  Imagine the execution and all five mice get stuck three feet down on a ten foot track.  <insert loser horns> And Drew says..."Oh that was so close, but you won the water bike to get up here...."

Although as I type this I remember reading they're getting real good at editing out the booing...regardless my point is it wouldn't make for very good television, let alone a 'fair' game.    I think we will see a guaranteed three rats crossing the finish line in a distingushable order, first-second-third place.  Maybe the other two don't even cross over the finishe line, who knows.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Mike Tennant on June 04, 2010, 03:38:15 PM
I think they should use real rats and have celebrities bet on which one will win.  Mr. Plager (played by Howard Hesseman), one of Dr. Hartley's occasional patients on The Bob Newhart Show, once suggested a game show called The Rat Race that was played just like that.  He balked, however, when the network insisted the rats be given numbers rather than painted different colors; one must maintain some artistic integrity, after all.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: NickS on June 04, 2010, 05:13:34 PM
[quote name=\'Mike Tennant\' post=\'241933\' date=\'Jun 4 2010, 02:38 PM\']I think they should use real rats and have celebrities bet on which one will win.  Mr. Plager (played by Howard Hesseman), one of Dr. Hartley's occasional patients on The Bob Newhart Show, once suggested a game show called The Rat Race that was played just like that.  He balked, however, when the network insisted the rats be given numbers rather than painted different colors; one must maintain some artistic integrity, after all.[/quote]

If memory serves me right - wasn't there also an episode of Miami Vice that guest-starred Phil Collins hosting a game show called Rat Race complete with its own theme sung by said guest-star?

ObTPiRRatRace: I'm for all rats actually finishing the race and agree on having something, maybe like the envelope Eubanks had with the combination on Dream House, to show the pre-pick for S&P sake.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: BrandonFG on June 04, 2010, 05:21:35 PM
[quote name=\'TeppanYaki\' post=\'241934\' date=\'Jun 4 2010, 05:13 PM\']If memory serves me right - wasn't there also an episode of Miami Vice that guest-starred Phil Collins hosting a game show called Rat Race complete with its own theme sung by said guest-star?[/quote]
Yes. (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PG36LiRBn8\")
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: tvwxman on June 05, 2010, 06:56:46 PM
[quote name=\'TeppanYaki\' post=\'241934\' date=\'Jun 4 2010, 05:13 PM\']If memory serves me right - wasn't there also an episode of Miami Vice that guest-starred Phil Collins hosting a game show called Rat Race complete with its own theme sung by said guest-star?[/quote]
yes -  it's on hulu...for over 20 years i thought that it was a catchy tune sung by Phil....and hadn't heard it since it's original airings!
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Mr. Brown on June 06, 2010, 04:15:48 PM
[quote name=\'ClockGameJohn\' post=\'241931\' date=\'Jun 4 2010, 02:10 PM\']Ahhh, but this will soon show just exactly how little you know about this show.  ;)[/quote]

I'll be amazed if the man somehow screwed up a game of Rock-Paper-Scissors.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: BrandonFG on June 06, 2010, 04:31:26 PM
Watching some of that Miami Vice clip, I must say that that was probably one of the coolest, most elaborate fake game show sets I've ever seen. It always annoyed me to see sitcom/drama sets that were nothing more than a red or gold curtain and a few desks, as if it were still the 1950s.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: bscripps on June 06, 2010, 04:42:01 PM
[quote name=\'Mike Tennant\' post=\'241933\' date=\'Jun 4 2010, 03:38 PM\']Mr. Plager (played by Howard Hesseman), one of Dr. Hartley's occasional patients on The Bob Newhart Show, once suggested a game show called The Rat Race that was played just like that.  He balked, however, when the network insisted the rats be given numbers rather than painted different colors; one must maintain some artistic integrity, after all.[/quote]
The first-season episode "Fish Story" of WKRP in Cincinnati featured a memorable storyline involving Venus and Johnny (Howard Hesseman) drinking on the air as part of a public service announcement to show the effects of alcohol.  Show creator and episode writer Hugh Wilson used the pseudonym "Raoul Plager" for his writing credit because he was unhappy with a directive from CBS to write a more slapstick, farcical script, and wanted to maintain his artistic integrity.

Sorry.  That's the only time in my life this useless bit of trivia will ever be relevant to anything.

/ObGS: Johnny Olsen announced the third-season episode "Real Families".
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Matt Ottinger on June 06, 2010, 05:26:03 PM
[quote name=\'bscripps\' post=\'242002\' date=\'Jun 6 2010, 04:42 PM\']Show creator and episode writer Hugh Wilson used the pseudonym "Raoul Plager" for his writing credit because he was unhappy with a directive from CBS to write a more slapstick, farcical script, and wanted to maintain his artistic integrity.[/quote]
It amuses me that the author of Police Academy was concerned about slapstick and farce harming his artistic integrity.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Jeremy Nelson on June 16, 2010, 11:21:26 AM
Rat Race did indeed premiere today.

The player earns up to 3 rats by pricing items within ranges of $1 (small grocery item), $10 (small prize), and $100 (small one-bid prize). All the rats did finish the race, but then again, it was only 6-7 seconds. Something tells me they're controlled underneath the track mechanically, kinda like a slot car. The rats all started on the model's pull of a lever, so I don't know how wound up they are. Nonetheless, it was entertaining.

I do like this game a lot, and its set is pretty darned awesome. I'm a big fan of contestants pricing things within ranges, rather than higher/lower, so they had me at the pricing section.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: tvmitch on June 16, 2010, 11:37:05 AM
[quote name=\'rollercoaster87\' post=\'242557\' date=\'Jun 16 2010, 11:21 AM\']Rat Race did indeed premiere today.

The player earns up to 3 rats by pricing items within ranges of $1 (small grocery item), $10 (small prize), and $100 (small one-bid prize). All the rats did finish the race, but then again, it was only 6-7 seconds. Something tells me they're controlled underneath the track mechanically, kinda like a slot car. The mice all started on the model's pull of a lever, so I don't know how wound up these mice are. Nonetheless, it was entertaining.

I do like this game a lot, and its set is pretty darned awesome. I'm a big fan of contestants pricing things within ranges, rather than higher/lower, so they had me at the pricing section.[/quote]
I agree with the last paragraph. I rather enjoyed the "pricing within a range" idea...should be added to more games, it's a bit more challenging than the standard "higher/lower" or "this prize or that one has this price."

Pretty good game overall. Nice set design, easy to understand. It would be fun to have a game like this that implemented some sort of odds system, but that might make it more complicated...

The rats looked cheap, though. This elaborate set with props that look like they came 5-for-$1 in the cat toy section of Dollar Tree.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Jeremy Nelson on June 16, 2010, 11:54:17 AM
Drew said during the Showcases that video will be posted to priceisright.com that chronicles the creation of Rat Race.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: weaklink75 on June 16, 2010, 01:10:43 PM
I do like the setup for it- probably one of the best ones I've ever seen. Only quibble is that the race should be a little bit longer- slow the rats down a bit.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: pacdude on June 16, 2010, 01:35:31 PM
For those (like myself) who missed it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AjSPbWQqfE...eature=youtu.be (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AjSPbWQqfE&feature=youtu.be\")

My thoughts: it's a slick game. I like the setup and the staging, including the lit-up lanes, and the gameplay is not bad. The reveal is awesome, although I agree with the sentiment of making the rats slower. As much as I thought that a mechanical rat race would be a dumb idea for a game, the TPiR staff has shown they can patch together something awesome.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: tpirfan28 on June 16, 2010, 01:55:12 PM
The set needs toned down a bit - the items blend in to the backdrop.  Other than that it's a very solid game, and the pricing portion is something that really isn't used that much on the program.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: weaklink75 on June 16, 2010, 03:40:45 PM
[quote name=\'rollercoaster87\' post=\'242559\' date=\'Jun 16 2010, 11:54 AM\']Drew said during the Showcases that video will be posted to priceisright.com that chronicles the creation of Rat Race.[/quote]
And here it is... (http://\"http://www.priceisright.com/show/games/rat-race\") I actually was wondering why there was that yellow block in front- didn't notice the one in the back to make the dollar sign...
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on June 16, 2010, 08:37:24 PM
[quote name=\'rollercoaster87\' post=\'242557\' date=\'Jun 16 2010, 11:21 AM\']Something tells me they're controlled underneath the track mechanically, kinda like a slot car.[/quote]
They're not, which is my only issue with the game -- it should have a predetermined outcome, but it doesn't, and on top of that, it's possible for the rats to get stuck.

It's a fun game to watch, though, and there's probably a way to fix the things that are wrong with it.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Thunder on June 16, 2010, 10:21:10 PM
It sure looked pre-determined to me because the yellow rat had a big lead, gave it up to the blue rat than nosed ahead to win.

Spring powered mice don't work that way.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: clemon79 on June 16, 2010, 10:28:13 PM
[quote name=\'Thunder\' post=\'242594\' date=\'Jun 16 2010, 07:21 PM\']It sure looked pre-determined to me because the yellow rat had a big lead, gave it up to the blue rat than nosed ahead to win.

Spring powered mice don't work that way.[/quote]
Mice who trade the inside and outside tracks on the turns certainly do.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on June 16, 2010, 10:37:21 PM
[quote name=\'Thunder\' post=\'242594\' date=\'Jun 16 2010, 10:21 PM\']It sure looked pre-determined to me because the yellow rat had a big lead, gave it up to the blue rat than nosed ahead to win.[/quote]
So what?  That doesn't prove a thing.

Anyway, you can't predetermine the outcome of a game whose props you don't have any control over.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Thunder on June 16, 2010, 10:44:21 PM
Hell if I know.

The "inside/outside" of the curves was something I hadn't thought about.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: WilliamPorygon on June 16, 2010, 10:52:10 PM
After seeing the big premiere today, I did think it was a pretty good game a lot better than I was anticipating.  Very nice set, too.

I do still have concerns over the whole rules with the rats potentially getting stuck or otherwise failing to finish though.  In a game like Hurdles, if the contestant picked the right items but the prop failed, Bob didn't declare the contestant a loser because the hurdler didn't make it over all the hurdles.  I do understand the one big difference between those situations Hurdles (and every other game up to Rat Race) had a predetermined correct answer for them to check against.  With Rat Race, it would be a PR nightmare if they ended up declaring the game lost because most or all of their own props malfunctioned.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Lirodon on June 16, 2010, 11:03:26 PM
If factors cause all the rats not to cross the finish line, couldn't they just "score" them in their current order on the track?
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Joe Mello on June 16, 2010, 11:19:37 PM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'242587\' date=\'Jun 16 2010, 08:37 PM\']it should have a predetermined outcome, but it doesn't.[/quote]
This is probably a matter of aesthetics, but the only thing I want predetermined is that all the mice finish.

It seems like the engineering is as sound as it can be.  I like the cityscape backdrops, and while I'd have preferred GUTS-style lockout lights, the finish line as-is is pretty neat, fits within the theme, and exploits the new-to-Price tech very well.

I still think the gravity-powered system would cause less hassle in the long run, but it probably would not have been this flashy.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Matt Ottinger on June 16, 2010, 11:46:42 PM
Watched the game on YouTube just now.  Certainly a colorful game, and as an earlier poster said, I like that the $1/$10/$100 guessing game is fairly original by TPIR guessing game standards.  I thought the reveal was kinda awkward; there didn't seem to be any audience reaction to the race at all, and it appeared nobody really knew what had happened until Drew explained it.  When you're watching Plinko (the other "random" game Drew referenced in the mini-doc), there's an immediate response from the audience that's lacking here.

I'm not sure why the outcome should be pre-determined, though I imagine it would work that way just as well.  As for mechanical failure, I'm sure they have plans to deal with that when and if it happens.  Overall, it works for me just fine, though it's not among the greats by any means.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on June 17, 2010, 12:15:38 AM
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'242611\' date=\'Jun 16 2010, 11:46 PM\']As for mechanical failure, I'm sure they have plans to deal with that when and if it happens.[/quote]
I'm not sure if "That mouse doesn't finish the race, and too bad for you if you picked it" really qualifies as "dealing with it."
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Clay Zambo on June 17, 2010, 12:27:50 AM
That is a damned elaborate setup!

As for the rat-not-finishing problem: that seems no different from "sorry, you picked a shell that doesn't have the ball under it."  If the colored rats were coded to the prizes, then you'd have a problem if one didn't finish the race, but since the contestant picks his or her rat(s) and it's the order of finish that determines what's won, it seems to work out just fine.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on June 17, 2010, 12:37:09 AM
[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'242614\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 12:27 AM\']As for the rat-not-finishing problem: that seems no different from "sorry, you picked a shell that doesn't have the ball under it."[/quote]
Not even close.  The Shell Game scenario you mentioned is caused by the contestant's own mistakes.  Rat Race has the potential to be impossible to win no matter what the contestant does.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: ClockGameJohn on June 17, 2010, 12:41:45 AM
It's basically like a Plinko chip getting stuck and them telling you tough shit.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: TLEberle on June 17, 2010, 01:39:14 AM
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'242611\' date=\'Jun 16 2010, 08:46 PM\']I'm not sure why the outcome should be pre-determined, though I imagine it would work that way just as well.[/quote]So that when things go horribly wrong, you can open the little envelope and say "This is what we meant to have happen." Sure, it still looks bad because your game SNAFU'ed, but at least you're doing right by your contestant. And you also don't have people wondering about what should have happened.

When you write material for QB, you put the answers down as well, right? The Golden Doors from Dream House had a magic number that was determined before the round. Wheel of Fortunes various envelopes are seeded by someone before the draw/spin. Pre-planning prevents things from getting out of control.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: BrandonFG on June 17, 2010, 02:13:02 AM
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'242611\' date=\'Jun 16 2010, 11:46 PM\']I thought the reveal was kinda awkward; there didn't seem to be any audience reaction to the race at all, and it appeared nobody really knew what had happened until Drew explained it.  When you're watching Plinko (the other "random" game Drew referenced in the mini-doc), there's an immediate response from the audience that's lacking here.[/quote]
Okay, I was trying to figure out what was missing, and I think you summed it up. The audience cheered over the cheese that Rich described (Heh, cheese, rats, get it? Well see, oh nevermind), but not the actual outcome. From what I saw in the clip, it took a second to process what just happened, since it's not spelled out (I was a little confused myself) However with a game like Plinko, you see the chip hit the space marked "$10,000" or "$0". I wonder how awkward it would've been had the audience gone ape, thinking the guy won the car, but instead got the watches.

I like the game and love the presentation, but hopefully the execution of crossing the finish line is somehow ironed out better in the future. Right now, I think the finish will be awkward no matter what.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Craig Karlberg on June 17, 2010, 04:20:56 AM
This Rat Race got me sold based on the pricing portion aspect ala Walk of Fame.  The set-up was neat.  The big problem wasn't the race itself, but the finish.  There should be a change in color of one or more of the track slots if his/her rat(s) finished in the Top 3.  As it is, it's tough to say how they'll handle this in future playings.  The mechanical problems that might arise may as well be something to deal with if it comes to that.  Other than that, Drew did a good job on his creation.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Jimmy Owen on June 17, 2010, 06:17:17 AM
Seeing the actual game, it's obvious that if there is a mechanical problem, the race will be re-run and the tape edited.  The disclaimer will appear in teeny-tiny lettering that no one can read at the end of the show.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: tvwxman on June 17, 2010, 07:26:22 AM
Not a bad game, but they clearly need to A: slow down the rats and B: clearly show what rats win the race, so it can be explained better to the audience what prize the contestant wins.

My only suggestion of improvement : The three prizes' prices are not mentioned. Maybe they should play the guessing game with those three instead of adding more small prizes? Do it with a $10 , $100, $1000 range for the 3 prizes maybe?
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: chris319 on June 17, 2010, 09:16:25 AM
Those rats are actually slot cars. Pause the video at the right places and the slots are plainly visible in the tracks.

With Plinko, the trajectory of each chip is determined by simple physics: gravity and the chip ricocheting off the pegs. With Rat Race, the speed of each rat is determined not by simple physics but by ... ??? It seems to me the speed of each rat would have to be set in advance.

Matt is right; the game ends in a whimper. The finish goes by in a blur and lacks all anticipation and suspense. There is no audience reaction to speak of at the finish until Drew tells the guy what he has won. Even Stan seemed a little confused as the theme came in a second or two late. The rats need to be slowed down by a factor of two or three but I don't think that will fix the lack-of-suspense problem.

Why is Drew rooting only for the blue rat? Bradley could have won if the orange rat had come in as one of the first three. They got really lucky having a contestant as animated as Bradley for this game's first outing.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Jeremy Nelson on June 17, 2010, 09:17:54 AM
I dunno if it's the audience trying to process what happed as much as it is them knowing he didn't win the car. One thing Drew made clear: if the rat you pick crosses first, you win the car. Easy enough. Sure, the audience may have been trying to process what he DID win, but part of it was that they knew he didn't win the car.

[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'242609\' date=\'Jun 16 2010, 10:19 PM\']while I'd have preferred GUTS-style lockout lights,[/quote]
I like that, especially considering that when you look back at the tape, it seems the mice hit the end of the track hard enough where if you put some sort of sensor or button there, it would register.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Mr. Armadillo on June 17, 2010, 09:19:47 AM
The orange rat was nowhere near the front of the pack at any point in the race.  He was rooting for the only rat of Bradley's that actually had a chance in Hell of winning.

Also, for all intents and purposes, is there any difference between a rat that finishes in fifth and a rat that doesn't finish at all?  (Don't talk to me about the scenario where three (or more) rats all spontaneously malfunction...the odds of that are somewhere along the lines of the odds of someone winning Plinko.)

/Orange rat and blue rat?
//Now those are choices I can get behind
///Go Illini!
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: chris319 on June 17, 2010, 09:29:05 AM
Watch it again. The orange rat was ahead of the blue until the second curve. Drew started rooting for the blue rat roughly around the first curve.

If they're going to do a slo-mo replay, it needs to be done with Drew describing it before he tosses to commercial, not after.

Quote
I dunno if it's the audience trying to process what happed as much as it is them knowing he didn't win the car.
I think you give the audience too much credit. Those rats all cross the finish line within one second or less of each other. There was no moan from the audience because he didn't win the car -- there was simply no reaction.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: LetsGoMets2003 on June 17, 2010, 09:45:31 AM
I just love the game. It's addicting for some very odd reason. lol.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Clay Zambo on June 17, 2010, 10:18:40 AM
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'242634\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 09:16 AM\']Those rats are actually slot cars. Pause the video at the right places and the slots are plainly visible in the tracks.[/quote]

And described in the "making-of" video.

Quote
With Rat Race, the speed of each rat is determined not by simple physics but by ... ??? It seems to me the speed of each rat would have to be set in advance.

I would presume that they're all wound equally tightly--but of course that's not necessarily the case.  And I don't think it matters, since the player picks the rats, rather than the rats being assigned to specific prizes.
Quote
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Clay Zambo on June 17, 2010, 10:22:00 AM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'242615\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 12:37 AM\'][quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'242614\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 12:27 AM\']As for the rat-not-finishing problem: that seems no different from "sorry, you picked a shell that doesn't have the ball under it."[/quote]
Not even close.  The Shell Game scenario you mentioned is caused by the contestant's own mistakes.  Rat Race has the potential to be impossible to win no matter what the contestant does.
[/quote]

As was the case at the only Kentucky Derby party I've attended.  "My" horse went lame just a few lengths out of the gate.  Didn't matter how tasty was the guacamole I'd brought, I still lost.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: JasonA1 on June 17, 2010, 10:31:49 AM
[quote name=\'LetsGoMets2003\' post=\'242640\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 09:45 AM\']I just love the game. It's addicting for some very odd reason.[/quote]

After one time?

Would it be cleaner to only play for the car? Thus, if one of the contestant's rats wins the race, they win the car?

It IS odd the show would make a rule so decisively against the contestant (it broke? too bad). It sounds unwieldy to have the race truly be a random event. But it's not the whole story. Watch the video on priceisright.com. It really gives the staff a side in this whole argument. They didn't just send these toys down a Soap Box Derby hill. They tested over 20 of 'em, and the props people were smart enough to make it a slot car system. Plus, it's readily apparent the length of the track is well below the length these things can go.

I would still like it to be a slower, pre-determined happening, but this was far from the unfair mess it looked to be on paper. Is the implication that the staff would LIKE a game that breaks down, just to save them money in the prize budget? I don't think the rule is meant to be so nefarious, but rather another example of them not fully getting it. They eventually got rid of 4-digit prizes in Clock Game. If anything about Rat Race becomes a huge issue, I believe it will get weeded out sooner or later.

It got a positive review from me on its debut. We'll see how it goes after a few more appearances.

-Jason
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Matt Ottinger on June 17, 2010, 10:38:06 AM
[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'242645\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 10:31 AM\']It IS odd the show would make a rule so decisively against the contestant (it broke? too bad).[/quote]
In the first place, I don't think we know for certain that's the rule.  In the second place, a random malfunction isn't "decisively against the contestant".  If a rat that he didn't choose malfunctions, then a contestant has a greater chance of winning a prize.

Like Clay says, sometimes not all horses finish the race.  If the one you picked failed to finish, that's too bad for you.  If someone else's horse didn't finish, that's too bad for him.  And in this case, if they've got a rule that says all five rats have to finish or else we reshoot, then this whole discussion is moot.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Bob Zager on June 17, 2010, 10:40:12 AM
Earlier in the season, one of the IUFB's was a neat slot car race game set for the home.  I recall Drew commenting that it looked neat, and that he ought to buy one himself.  This leads me to think he got the idea for the new pricing game from that.

Whether the winning rat is predetermined or not, if a contestant earns his/her choice of (the maximum) three rats, they would be guaranteed to win at least ONE prize, and it could still be the car!
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: chris319 on June 17, 2010, 10:53:48 AM
Quote
I would presume that they're all wound equally tightly
Wound? Since when do you wind up a slot car?
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Joe Mello on June 17, 2010, 11:52:02 AM
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'242650\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 10:53 AM\']Since when do you wind up a slot car?[/quote]
Since when did they mention they were using slot cars?  The course is designed so that they behave like them, but I don't recall anyone saying they were slot cars.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Jeremy Nelson on June 17, 2010, 11:53:05 AM
[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'242645\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 09:31 AM\']Would it be cleaner to only play for the car? Thus, if one of the contestant's rats wins the race, they win the car?[/quote]
Well that's the case anyway. The other prizes ensure that if the contestant goes 3 for 3 in the pricing half, then they'll win something.

/Guess I'll have to change my sig now :)
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: chad1m on June 17, 2010, 12:08:13 PM
It just seems to me like they put the rule in so that they don't have to make an on-the-fly decision about what to do in the slim chance that happens. The rule is already in place so there's no "holy crap, what should we do" moment. How fair is it to Joe Plinko to re-do and re-tape the race when the blue rat he chose finished first but the green rat he chose didn't make it due to an error? Just give him the car, explain his other rat didn't finish and move along. The "non-functional" rat probably wasn't going to land in the first three positions anyway if it didn't finish. It's a CYA rule and I don't have a problem with it. If the one flaw about a game is in regards to something that, judging by the amount of testing they claimed to have done the video, will happen once in a blue moon if it all, I don't think it's a big deal.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: JasonA1 on June 17, 2010, 12:19:44 PM
[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'242656\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 12:08 PM\']It just seems to me like they put the rule in so that they don't have to make an on-the-fly decision about what to do in the slim chance that happens.[/quote]

Correct, and that was my larger point. The rule itself sounds wonky (if, as Matt says, it isn't just hearsay), but the video leads me to believe the chances of it happening are small. I think the main problem for some people is that, in previous years, the sheer potential of this inequity would be unheard of. I hope cooler heads would prevail in the once-in-a-lifetime race where most of the rats don't even finish (i.e., they'd reshoot it or award prizes).

-Jason
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on June 17, 2010, 12:49:47 PM
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'242628\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 06:17 AM\']Seeing the actual game, it's obvious that if there is a mechanical problem, the race will be re-run and the tape edited.  The disclaimer will appear in teeny-tiny lettering that no one can read at the end of the show.[/quote]
Again:  If a rat gets stuck, it doesn't finish the race.

[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'242644\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 10:22 AM\']As was the case at the only Kentucky Derby party I've attended.  "My" horse went lame just a few lengths out of the gate.  Didn't matter how tasty was the guacamole I'd brought, I still lost.[/quote]
And you don't think this looks considerably more tacky on a game show than at an actual horse race?

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'242646\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 10:38 AM\']In the first place, I don't think we know for certain that's the rule.[/quote]
Yes, we do.

[quote name=\'Bob Zager\' post=\'242647\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 10:40 AM\']Whether the winning rat is predetermined or not, if a contestant earns his/her choice of (the maximum) three rats, they would be guaranteed to win at least ONE prize, and it could still be the car![/quote]
This is incorrect.  The contestant is not guaranteed to win any of the prizes no matter how well he bids.

[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'242660\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 12:19 PM\']I hope cooler heads would prevail in the once-in-a-lifetime race where most of the rats don't even finish (i.e., they'd reshoot it or award prizes).[/quote]
I would, too.  Right now, though, that's not what the rules are, and that's what I have a problem with.

Small though the chances of this happening may be, it's still a kink that should have been worked out before the game ever got on the air.  Instead, they came up with a half-assed non-fix for it and then hoped they'd never have to use it.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: clemon79 on June 17, 2010, 12:54:45 PM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'242663\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 09:49 AM\']And you don't think this looks considerably more tacky on a game show than at an actual horse race?[/quote]
At least they don't put down the contestant if it happens here.

(Not that I would mind one bit in a lot of cases.)

I enjoyed the game (especially the presentation) and look forward to seeing many more playings.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Clay Zambo on June 17, 2010, 12:56:04 PM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'242663\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 12:49 PM\'][quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'242644\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 10:22 AM\']As was the case at the only Kentucky Derby party I've attended.  "My" horse went lame just a few lengths out of the gate.  Didn't matter how tasty was the guacamole I'd brought, I still lost.[/quote]
And you don't think this looks considerably more tacky on a game show than at an actual horse race?[/quote]

Well, actually, no. This guy didn't win a car on a game show.  The horse had to be put down.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Mr. Armadillo on June 17, 2010, 01:29:18 PM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'242663\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 11:49 AM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'242628\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 06:17 AM\']Seeing the actual game, it's obvious that if there is a mechanical problem, the race will be re-run and the tape edited.  The disclaimer will appear in teeny-tiny lettering that no one can read at the end of the show.[/quote]
Again:  If a rat gets stuck, it doesn't finish the race.[/quote]
Correct.  And if a rat doesn't finish the race, it doesn't win the race.  And if you picked a rat that didn't win the race, you don't win the car.  What exactly is the problem again?

I would like to continue to add the fact that three rats all failing at once, barring human error, is going to happen approximately as often as Plinko being won.  And even if that ever happens, Drew would probably step in and do something for the contestant, regardless of what the rules say.  The rules might be harsh, but can you seriously think Drew, he who instituted Half-Off's $500 bonus, would stand idly by and do nothing as that rule screwed the contestant over?

I know that's probably how Bob would have handled it.  "Whoops, looks like we put the mice on the track backwards today.  You know what...I'll give you the car anyway!"
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on June 17, 2010, 02:23:49 PM
[quote name=\'Mr. Armadillo\' post=\'242669\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 01:29 PM\']Correct.  And if a rat doesn't finish the race, it doesn't win the race.  And if you picked a rat that didn't win the race, you don't win the car.  What exactly is the problem again?[/quote]
That the game can make itself impossible to win.

[quote name=\'Mr. Armadillo\' post=\'242669\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 01:29 PM\']I would like to continue to add the fact that three rats all failing at once, barring human error, is going to happen approximately as often as Plinko being won.[/quote]
That doesn't mean there shouldn't be a better rule in case it does happen.  This is the only game on the show that has the potential to not have a right answer.  That chance shouldn't exist.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Matt Ottinger on June 17, 2010, 02:51:34 PM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'242671\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 02:23 PM\'][quote name=\'Mr. Armadillo\' post=\'242669\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 01:29 PM\']Correct.  And if a rat doesn't finish the race, it doesn't win the race.  And if you picked a rat that didn't win the race, you don't win the car.  What exactly is the problem again?[/quote]
That the game can make itself impossible to win.[/quote]
I'm with the armor-plated one here.  It sounds like you're saying that the game is flawed because there is the possibility that at least three rats will fail in the same race.  I have to believe that they've play-tested this thing enough times to be confident that's not going to happen, or that the possibility is so remote that it's not worth worrying about.

In those high heels walking across that narrow platform, Vanna might slip and break her ankle.  It could happen.  (Then of course, we'd have to put her down.)  The fact that this is a possibility doesn't mean that the game board is badly designed.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Clay Zambo on June 17, 2010, 03:14:26 PM
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'242674\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 02:51 PM\']Vanna might slip and break her ankle.  It could happen.  (Then of course, we'd have to put her down.)[/quote]

Heaven forfend!
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: J.R. on June 17, 2010, 03:27:17 PM
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'242674\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 01:51 PM\']In those high heels walking across that narrow platform, Vanna might slip and break her ankle.[/quote]
Wheelloon's worst nightmare. ;)
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Joe Mello on June 17, 2010, 04:21:32 PM
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'242674\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 02:51 PM\'][quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'242671\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 02:23 PM\'][quote name=\'Mr. Armadillo\' post=\'242669\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 01:29 PM\']Correct.  And if a rat doesn't finish the race, it doesn't win the race.  And if you picked a rat that didn't win the race, you don't win the car.  What exactly is the problem again?[/quote]
That the game can make itself impossible to win.[/quote]
I'm with the armor-plated one here.  It sounds like you're saying that the game is flawed because there is the possibility that at least three rats will fail in the same race.  I have to believe that they've play-tested this thing enough times to be confident that's not going to happen, or that the possibility is so remote that it's not worth worrying about.[/quote]
Heck, since the the goal of the game is to win the car, you only need to really worry about all five mice dying.  Any other result can be shrugged off as saying "Well, you didn't pick the right rat.  Too bad."  Even if the mice broke half the time (which is almost certainly an overestimate), the odds of a TPK (http://\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Party_Kill\") occurring are pretty long (31:1).  Yes, it's a possibility and yes, that's not preferred, but 5 0's in Plinko isn't preferred either.

As a side thought, this rule may be some accidental genius here.  I mean, this is a Rat Race.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: BrandonFG on June 17, 2010, 04:29:40 PM
I have come up with two options, both of which would involve only three rats.

PRE-DETERMINED RACE
The more responses I read, the more I'm in favor of predetermining the race, but one the condition that there's only three rats, with three small prizes. By predetermining the race, whoever handles graphics can easily punch up the winning rat as soon as it crosses the finish line, and the producer can simply tell Drew via IFB "The orange rat is the car. Pretend like you're surprised."

-or-

RANDOM RACE
Here, the rats would still be color-coded, but would also be numbered (non-sequential, i.e. Rat 3 represents the car, Rat 6 is the computer, Rat 9 the watches). Each time you correctly price a prize, you choose a rat, whose number is revealed right before the race. If (one of) your chosen rat(s) crosses first, you win the prize. At least with numbers, it's easier to figure out who crosses the line first, and there's not an awkward two-second delay as Drew and the producers try and figure out what was won (or lost).
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: beatlefreak84 on June 17, 2010, 05:20:05 PM
After seeing the game and the aforementioned rule about rats breaking down, I think the fix can be a lot simpler:

So long as at least three rats cross the finish line, you have a legal game.  If you picked one of the rats that didn't make it, it's just like that rat came in fourth or fifth place.  If less than three rats cross the finish line, either edit that play out and redo the race, or just award the contestant the highest prizes he/she could have won.

But, that strange rule aside, I really, really like the game.  The pricing part is a nice change of pace for the show, and the race is a very clever way of deciding what prize(s) you'll win.  I definitely agree there needs to be a better way to judge (from an audience point of view) which rats crossed the finish line in what order.  I was too focused on the first-place finish to know who finished third, for example.

Would it be possible to do like Olympic swimming in that, when the rat crosses the finish line (or hits a sensor), the scoreboard is automatically updated with that rat's rank?

Anthony
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: chris319 on June 17, 2010, 05:37:43 PM
Quote
So long as at least three rats cross the finish line, you have a legal game. If you picked one of the rats that didn't make it, it's just like that rat came in fourth or fifth place. If less than three rats cross the finish line, either edit that play out and redo the race, or just award the contestant the highest prizes he/she could have won.
Works for me.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on June 17, 2010, 06:53:50 PM
[quote name=\'beatlefreak84\' post=\'242688\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 05:20 PM\']So long as at least three rats cross the finish line, you have a legal game.  If you picked one of the rats that didn't make it, it's just like that rat came in fourth or fifth place.  If less than three rats cross the finish line, either edit that play out and redo the race, or just award the contestant the highest prizes he/she could have won.[/quote]
That's a decent, very simple solution.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Joe Mello on June 17, 2010, 07:08:25 PM
[quote name=\'beatlefreak84\' post=\'242688\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 05:20 PM\']Would it be possible to do like Olympic swimming in that, when the rat crosses the finish line (or hits a sensor), the scoreboard is automatically updated with that rat's rank?[/quote]
See, I thought that's what was happening, and considering all the other tech involved, I have to imagine it's not an unreasonable request.  Also, see my previous post on GUTS lights.

As I mentally conceived how the game looked, I thought the rats would have antenna-like tails to which you could stick little flags onto if you chose one.  I'd argue that it would be a better audience visual than the light-up lanes.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Unrealtor on June 17, 2010, 07:24:05 PM
[quote name=\'beatlefreak84\' post=\'242688\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 04:20 PM\']Would it be possible to do like Olympic swimming in that, when the rat crosses the finish line (or hits a sensor), the scoreboard is automatically updated with that rat's rank?[/quote]

The behind the scenes video on priceisright.com says that there are electronics in the track to determine the order, so I'm surprised that the CBS electronics shop didn't go the extra step to hook them into the graphics.

Also, I think the reveal would look a lot better if the mice came up in order of finishing instead of in order by track position. If you want to do some sort of reminder of which colors belong to the contestant on there, put a row of rats across the bottom and mark them with something like a dollar sign or a GT asterisk.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Bob Zager on June 17, 2010, 07:33:30 PM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'242663\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 12:49 PM\'][quote name=\'Bob Zager\' post=\'242647\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 10:40 AM\']Whether the winning rat is predetermined or not, if a contestant earns his/her choice of (the maximum) three rats, they would be guaranteed to win at least ONE prize, and it could still be the car![/quote]
This is incorrect.  The contestant is not guaranteed to win any of the prizes no matter how well he bids.
[/quote]

Well, the only way I can see that is if not all the rats cross the finish line!

Assume a contestant earns the choice of THREE rats, and all rats are meant to cross the finish line.  If the two unchosen rats finish first and second, one of the three chosen rats will finish third, and win the lowest priced prize.  If only one of the two unchosen rats finishes in the top three, then two of the contestant's rats chosen would be somewhere in the top three.

Remember, this is if a contestant earns all three choices, and that all the rats cross the finish line!
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on June 17, 2010, 07:35:53 PM
[quote name=\'Bob Zager\' post=\'242693\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 07:33 PM\']Well, the only way I can see that is if not all the rats cross the finish line![/quote]
As I've said quite a number of times in this thread, it is possible for this to happen.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on June 18, 2010, 12:21:52 AM
I've been looking over what we were told about this game, and I may have made a mistake here.  We do know that rats that get stuck don't finish, but I can't find anything specifically about what happens if all five get stuck, and I don't think we have a way right now to find out for sure.

I don't know that I'm wrong, but I don't know that I'm right, either, and honestly, I hope I'm not.  Regardless, I don't want something that could potentially be false to be floating around as presumed fact while we wait for a definite answer.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Jimmy Owen on June 18, 2010, 05:18:35 AM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'242711\' date=\'Jun 18 2010, 12:21 AM\']I've been looking over what we were told about this game, and I may have made a mistake here.  We do know that rats that get stuck don't finish, but I can't find anything specifically about what happens if all five get stuck, and I don't think we have a way right now to find out for sure.

I don't know that I'm wrong, but I don't know that I'm right, either, and honestly, I hope I'm not.  Regardless, I don't want something that could potentially be false to be floating around as presumed fact while we wait for a definite answer.[/quote]
That's why I speculated, race re-run, tape edited, teeny-tiny disclaimer.  Or play Double Prices.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Matt Ottinger on June 18, 2010, 09:25:38 AM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'242711\' date=\'Jun 18 2010, 12:21 AM\']I've been looking over what we were told about this game, and I may have made a mistake here.  We do know that rats that get stuck don't finish, but I can't find anything specifically about what happens if all five get stuck, and I don't think we have a way right now to find out for sure.

I don't know that I'm wrong, but I don't know that I'm right, either, and honestly, I hope I'm not.  Regardless, I don't want something that could potentially be false to be floating around as presumed fact while we wait for a definite answer.[/quote]
It sounds like we all agree a lot more than we don't.  If *a* rat doesn't finish, them's the breaks.  If a whole bunch of rats don't finish, that's just ridiculously bad television. It doesn't look like a player got an unlucky break, it looks like your stupid game doesn't work right.  Surely Drew & Co. realize this, and would take some kind of corrective action if that should occur.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Mr. Armadillo on June 18, 2010, 10:04:21 AM
I believe the correct term for 'your stupid game doesn't work right' is 'technical win', right?
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: SRIV94 on June 18, 2010, 12:24:47 PM
[quote name=\'Mr. Armadillo\' post=\'242725\' date=\'Jun 18 2010, 09:04 AM\']I believe the correct term for 'your stupid game doesn't work right' is 'technical win', right?[/quote]
Probably.  After all, WWBD?
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: clemon79 on June 18, 2010, 12:38:57 PM
[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'242730\' date=\'Jun 18 2010, 09:24 AM\']Probably.  After all, WWBD?[/quote]
One of the models.
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: BrandonFG on June 18, 2010, 02:41:47 PM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'242731\' date=\'Jun 18 2010, 12:38 PM\'][quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'242730\' date=\'Jun 18 2010, 09:24 AM\']Probably.  After all, WWBD?[/quote]
One of the models.
[/quote]
Well played. (http://\"http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_J5VGni0FulQ/SJjCZSoe-II/AAAAAAAAABM/0qDv_teKwwo/s400/hititBobBarker.jpg\")
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: Jeremy Nelson on June 18, 2010, 03:24:22 PM
Hitler's Verdict on Rat Race (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg9hfb-K5aE\")
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: SRIV94 on June 18, 2010, 06:37:22 PM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'242731\' date=\'Jun 18 2010, 11:38 AM\'][quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'242730\' date=\'Jun 18 2010, 09:24 AM\']Probably.  After all, WWBD?[/quote]
One of the models.
[/quote]
One?
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: clemon79 on June 18, 2010, 08:11:28 PM
[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'242743\' date=\'Jun 18 2010, 03:37 PM\']One?[/quote]
Does not approve of my shenanigans (http://\"http://www.the-reel-mccoy.com/movies/1999/images/officespace_lawrence.jpg\")
Title: New TPiR game coming: Rat Race
Post by: TLEberle on June 20, 2010, 03:07:16 PM
[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'241821\' date=\'Jun 3 2010, 08:27 AM\']Awarding prizes for 3rd and 2nd place in a makeshift race sounds closer to something one of us would cook up, caring more about the "game" part of "game show."[/quote]What exactly does this mean? Shouldn't someone be concerned about having interesting games? Otherwise you could just play Double Prices six times and wake up the viewer to remind him that lopping off Fido's nutsack is The Right Thing To Do. That's why you play it a bunch of times to get a feel for probabilities and whether the reveal is interesting enough for a live crowd.

[quote name=\'Lirodon\' post=\'242606\' date=\'Jun 16 2010, 08:03 PM\']If factors cause all the rats not to cross the finish line, couldn't they just "score" them in their current order on the track?[/quote]If the Tibetan goat herder that has miraculously made it to the finals of the 100m dash at the Olympics is kicking tail for most of the race but collapses at 98 meters and doesn't finish, you don't score him as having run 98 meters in however many seconds. You score him as "Did not finish."

[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'242681\' date=\'Jun 17 2010, 01:21 PM\']Even if the mice broke half the time (which is almost certainly an overestimate), the odds of a TPK (http://\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Party_Kill\") occurring are pretty long (31:1).  Yes, it's a possibility and yes, that's not preferred, but 5 0's in Plinko isn't preferred either.[/quote]That's really interesting. I realize that Plinko is functionally equivalent (trigger event, watch event, get paid) but it feels different. Then again, you can do everything right and still lose Secret X a third of the time. And it still gets played without anyone complaining too much.

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'242721\' date=\'Jun 18 2010, 06:25 AM\']It sounds like we all agree a lot more than we don't.[/quote]I would be inclined to agree, especially given the precedent of the Half-Off bonus money.