The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => Game Show Channels & Networks => Topic started by: xavier45 on January 22, 2008, 11:08:57 PM
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Tvgameshows.net is reporting that How Much is Enough is not really pulling in the ratings(Suprise Suprise), and will be cut down. Here are the changes starting next week.
Tuesday-Thursday/Saturday
8pm: Millionaire
9pm: Family Feud(Karn)
9:30pm: Same
10pm: How Much is Enough?
10:30pm: Chain Reaction
Friday
8-10pm: Same
10pm: To Tell The Truth 2000(2 episodes)
Sunday
8pm: Millionaire
9pm: Lingo
9:30pm: Lingo
10pm: How Much is Enough?
10:30pm: Chain Reaction
11pm: Celebrity Millionaire
I am not really shocked about this. HMIE is a good cure for Insomnia, that is for sure.
And if anyone cares, they will be having a Love Connection Mini-Marathon on Sunday, February 10th from 9-12pm.
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I'm more surprised to see that
1)The audience is finally starting to get bored with Chain Reaction. That little show just didn't seem to want to die.
2)They're using TTTT 2000 as filler. I seem to remember it not doing so well when they had it in primetime. Are they *that* dead set against using, say, Match Game PM?
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Apparently, the public thinks the game is way too simple.
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[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' post=\'175956\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 12:00 AM\']
1)The audience is finally starting to get bored with Chain Reaction. That little show just didn't seem to want to die.
[/quote]
Word on the street is that it is in fact getting a third season. <'shrugs'>.
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Really? I'm hearing that it and Lingo are in limbo because the reruns are getting the same ratings as new episodes. However, my unbelievably reliable and close source told me my info back in November. I'm more inclined to believe you since lots of things can change obviously and I can see them needing Chain Reaction and/or Lingo to come out of the shop since How Much Is Enough apparently isn't doing much for them.
I can never tell when there are newer episodes of Lingo on. It always seems like one gigantic continuous season. You could probably tell on Chain Reaction by which of the thousand different end game formats are being used.
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[quote name=\'itiparanoid13\' post=\'175972\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 09:02 AM\'] can never tell when there are newer episodes of Lingo on. It always seemed like one gigantic continuous season. You could probably tell on Chain Reaction by which of the thousand different end game formats are being used. [/quote]
Actually, I can't even tell episodes of Chain Reaction apart. Same uninspired set. Same uninspired host. Contestants who look like they come from the same uninspired cookie cutter. The show's so uninteresting that I couldn't come up with any adjectives other than uninspired until an edit after the fact.
And I would suggest that based on the numbers, the "same" ratings that GSN is getting for shows like Lingo, Chain, etc - is probably fairly close to nada at this point. People aren't buying into 7th-generation-reruns of boring little originals with high school prize budgets anymore, clearly. (Lingo was good, but you can only watch pairs of folks fail to put the T in the right place and draw the red ball/stopper so many times....) And no, I'm not advocating sticking Go in prime time - though GSN tried that once before and the world didn't come to an end...but what they're doing now isn't working, and a third season of a piss-poor version of Chain Reaction isn't the fix.
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[quote name=\'bandit_bobby\' post=\'175970\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 08:38 AM\']
Apparently, the public thinks the game is way too simple.
[/quote]
Well, uh, it is. Didn't you get the mem---nevermind.
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And let it be said that putting on their modest little entertainments against Howie and His Hot Babes and the other flashier prime time game shows and reality comps aren't hurting them, as well.
Of course, we have to remember that they're programming for the "what else is on?" audience surfing through the channels, not the diehard game show fan. And they're going to be watching the network game shows before GSN first because of the glitz factor. I would ramp up first run production in both quantity and quality and put it on at 10 p.m., when no broadcast network for the most part's doing game or comp shows. Comedy Central's been doing this counterprogramming for years at 10 p.m. (since few if any comedy series start on the Big 3 networks after 10 p.m.) and it's worked very well for them. The schedule changes hint that they're beginning to realize it--but they need to expand on it.
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All this talk about the failed/failing/boring GSN originals brings to mind a question I've always had. Has GSN ever announced the cancellation of one of their originals? It seems all their shows go through the original run, then play in repeats for weeks/months/years, then fade away or magically reappear w/ new episodes. Are the producers, host, etc. in limbo, waiting for a call, such as CR & Lingo right now? I don't remember a time when GSN came out and said "we've canceled *insert favorite GSN original*, it just didn't perform well enough". If not, maybe HMiE will change that and they'll admit the mistake of green lighting this nightmare.
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[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'175977\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 11:37 AM\']
[quote name=\'bandit_bobby\' post=\'175970\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 08:38 AM\']
Apparently, the public thinks the game is way too simple.
[/quote]
Well, uh, it is. Didn't you get the mem---nevermind.
[/quote]
The demo GSN is targeting (or at least trying to) actually has taste? Who'da thunk it!
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[quote name=\'MizzouRah!\' post=\'175985\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 03:01 PM\']
All this talk about the failed/failing/boring GSN originals brings to mind a question I've always had. Has GSN ever announced the cancellation of one of their originals? It seems all their shows go through the original run, then play in repeats for weeks/months/years, then fade away or magically reappear w/ new episodes. Are the producers, host, etc. in limbo, waiting for a call, such as CR & Lingo right now? I don't remember a time when GSN came out and said "we've canceled *insert favorite GSN original*, it just didn't perform well enough". If not, maybe HMiE will change that and they'll admit the mistake of green lighting this nightmare.
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The only cancellation I've ever gotten a confirmation about was I've Got A Secret. Panelist Suzanne Westenhoeffer emailed me that GSN decided not to pick the show up for a second season in October (which was a big disappointment for me). But yeah, the rest have slowly faded away and are brought back if they are absolutely needed, or so it seems. Happened to Lingo during the rebranding. Wouldn't be shocked if it happened again
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[quote name=\'itiparanoid13\' post=\'175988\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 03:50 PM\']
The only cancellation I've ever gotten a confirmation about was I've Got A Secret. Panelist Suzanne Westenhoeffer emailed me that GSN decided not to pick the show up for a second season in October (which was a big disappointment for me). But yeah, the rest have slowly faded away and are brought back if they are absolutely needed, or so it seems. Happened to Lingo during the rebranding. Wouldn't be shocked if it happened again
[/quote]
That news crushed me as my wife and I thoroughly enjoyed this show...and there's not much on GSN that she "thoroughly enjoys." (i.e. TTD, to my chagrin.) And of all of GSN's originals, it was the most fun. I think Bil could host a show anytime and it would be great - very underrated.
I imagine that the cancellation happened because of the talent budget. I remember the show was doing fairly well in the ratings, at least by GSN standards. But maybe not, because the show gave away $2K at most per show (plus dinner), while other shows probably have a prize budget of $3-4K+. Who knows.
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[quote name=\'mitchgroff\' post=\'175992\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 04:42 PM\'] because the show gave away $2K at most per show (plus dinner), while other shows probably have a prize budget of $3-4K+. Who knows.[/quote]
And of course they didn't even have to give away that. Nobody watches a panel show to see a player win money. Heck, contestants don't go on a panel show to win money, they go to show off for some reason. The game would have been just as much fun (and it was fun) if they didn't say anything about prizes and just played, the same way the 70s version worked.
But yes, having to pay five talent fees instead of one or two probably didn't help the bottom line.
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IIRC, the Marianne Curan shows all acknowledged they were coming to an end on the air, I think Playmania did too, though I didn't see the farewell show.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'176006\' date=\'Jan 23 2008, 03:45 PM\']IIRC, the Marianne Curan shows all acknowledged they were coming to an end on the air.[/quote]I remember that: "Super Decades is at an end, this time next Monday you'll see When Did That Happen?". The latter actually managed to be slower and less interesting than the former, which is too bad.
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Would someone with more knowledge on this chime in on this throught? I figure one of the reasons the originals are so insipid is that they can't be the easiest shows in the world for a contestant coordinator. Since only a handful of people watch GSN, you've already trimmed down the base of people who have even heard of the shows. Then there would be some I figure that would not be impressed with either the small prizes or appearing before a small audience. Probably a good number of applicants don't do that well in testing, so it looks like the best they can hope for are people who can stand up and breathe. It feels like desperation casting, and it shows. The games aren't all that bad and would be more entertaining if they were played better. Perhaps GSN might want to look at formats that are fun and idiotproof. In the back of my mind for years, I've wondered about (and toyed with) an updated Video Village, for example. Minimal brainpower on the part of the contestants, and the squares plus an energetic host can create a slightly more charged atmosphere. Could be done on a medium budget. In fact, if you give both the players the chance to keep the small prizes they've won and give the winner of each game a small bonus and the right to play again for more small prizes, it could be fun and have a bit more enthusiasm. And before any wisenheimer says GSN probably doesn't have the rights to V V..what's the matter with making an offer? The format's collecting dust on the shelf. Anyone else gonna buy it? Thanks.
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[quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' post=\'176244\' date=\'Jan 25 2008, 11:15 AM\']Perhaps GSN might want to look at formats that are fun and idiotproof.[/quote]
A) It's 2008. Society's made some pretty damn good idiots. B) They've already tried that, and it was called How Much is Enough?
You do make a good point about casting, though. When your HH is only 150,000 or so, it probably can't help your standing, but that's what craigslist is for.
/Wasn't there some stupid teen game show that was a revisioning of Video Village?
//Think it came on before Click in Philly.
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'176260\' date=\'Jan 25 2008, 01:00 PM\']/Wasn't there some stupid teen game show that was a revisioning of Video Village?[/quote]
Yes, Peer Pressure. Probably one of the worst game shows I've ever seen, yet somehow resilient enough to be repackaged TWICE in the ensuing seasons with annoying edits aplenty.
If anything, it was more the demon spawn of Video Village if it was to gain Singled Out's personality with a mega ripoff of $ale's Instant Bargains its one redeeming grace.
//Think it came on before Click in Philly.
IIRC, that was true in most places, at least in the first season. The two shows were syndicated in the same package in their first season.
Back to the point at hand, at what point does it become counterproductive for GSN to produce originals?
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[quote name=\'Scrabbleship\' post=\'176263\' date=\'Jan 25 2008, 12:15 PM\']
Back to the point at hand, at what point does it become counterproductive for GSN to produce originals?
[/quote]
Probably the day they go off the air. An original series at least gives them the opportunity to do some press hyping that buying a repeat package of, say, "Temptation" won't get them.
Perhaps a way to go would be to try some goofy-but-fun late-night shows in the style of "Clash" or "Idiot Savants" or "Street Smarts"--shows that may not give out all that much, but do what they do in an appealingly irreverent and funny manner. Play 'em in late-night and you could get someone who's flipping around when Letterman and Leno are in reruns and Colbert's having a bad night. Hey, I don't know if anyone thought a lineup of cast-off prime time cartoons, anime, stoner-aimed meta "cartoons" and the occasional meta-live action show would become the monster that it is for Time Warner.
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[quote name=\'Scrabbleship\' post=\'176263\' date=\'Jan 25 2008, 10:15 AM\']
Yes, Peer Pressure. Probably one of the worst game shows I've ever seen, yet somehow resilient enough to be repackaged TWICE in the ensuing seasons with annoying edits aplenty.
[/quote]
Wasn't that the show where the name was changed (in editing) to 'Pressure 1' and 'Pressure 2' or something like that?
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[quote name=\'joshg\' post=\'176304\' date=\'Jan 25 2008, 06:05 PM\']
[quote name=\'Scrabbleship\' post=\'176263\' date=\'Jan 25 2008, 10:15 AM\']
Yes, Peer Pressure. Probably one of the worst game shows I've ever seen, yet somehow resilient enough to be repackaged TWICE in the ensuing seasons with annoying edits aplenty.
[/quote]
Wasn't that the show where the name was changed (in editing) to 'Pressure 1' and 'Pressure 2' or something like that?
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Complete with a VERY obvious dub whenever the host mentioned the show's original title.
It's been 10 years, but I actually enjoyed the show (it aired in reverse order, at 12:30 on Saturday afternoons, right after Click). I've seen worse shows...MUCH worse.
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I'll have to pull out my tape of that and watch it again. I remember it being a V V/Shenanigans-type game, but as long as it isn't aiming for a 12-year old audience, I could see some value in a fresh version of Village. A mix of retro and new elements could be interesting. It's a shame that that a number of good and inexpensive formats are under the H-Q banner - Gambit and High Rollers, for example. And that's not a bad idea, Uncamark. Borrowing a title from an old show, set aside a 90-minute block as Night Games -if they could do it right. Gee...a version of TDC's "Dirty Minds" party game, anybody? :-)
By the way, a question concerning a format I'm messing with -- every now and then on shows like Letterman, Paul may play some well-known pop tune to fit an impromptu bit, and Dave'll mention, "Hey, if you play a couple of more bars of that, we'll have to pay a royalty." Is there such an option of being able to play bits and pieces of music on a program and avoid royalties, and if so, is there a maximum allowable length? Thanks.
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[quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' post=\'176316\' date=\'Jan 25 2008, 09:12 PM\']
Is there such an option of being able to play bits and pieces of music on a program and avoid royalties, and if so, is there a maximum allowable length? Thanks.
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure it's eight consecutive notes.
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Back to the subject of original GSN programming...Is there any known reason why GSN hasn't tried more revivals of simple but somewhat proven games of the past? Trivia Trap definitely comes to mind, along with Now You See It. TT would be very simple. The set and Q & A format makes it seem like it could really be done on the cheap. Obviously Juniors would be 20-25 and seniors 26-30 to fit their demographics. And with today's technology, NYSI could be another simple and cheap remake. Would the cost of securing the rights to remake these shows possibly holding them back, or the lack of any interest in trying past shows and proving they are able to produce quality new programming? Obviously their new breed of games isn't working. At least you'd have the name factor to get a decent sampling of the premieres. Then it would be up to GSN to make them watchable(No further comment on that subject).
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[quote name=\'MizzouRah!\' post=\'176374\' date=\'Jan 26 2008, 03:19 PM\']Obviously Juniors would be 20-25 and seniors 26-30 to fit their demographics.[/quote]
That would fit the demographics they want, not necessarily the ones they get.
According to your logic, I would be dead to GSN and/or the producers of these shows since I would be a member of some sort of uber-senior set since I'm 31 or older. I just died a little inside.
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[quote name=\'MizzouRah!\' post=\'176374\' date=\'Jan 26 2008, 03:19 PM\']
Back to the subject of original GSN programming...Is there any known reason why GSN hasn't tried more revivals of simple but somewhat proven games of the past? [/quote]
Not sure which GSN you've been watching, but many of their 'originals' have been revivals of simple but somewhat proven games of the past. Whammy, IGAS, Lingo and Chain Reaction are all recent examples, and there have been others. So they're not only willing to do it, but they've had some of their biggest successes doing it. I couldn't tell you why specifically they haven't remade Now You See It or Trivia Trap, though you could argue that Camouflage has a lot of the feel of NYSI, and frankly, there's not enough original game to Trivia Trap to make it worth negotiating the rights to the format if all you want to do is make a trivia game show.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'176381\' date=\'Jan 26 2008, 05:23 PM\']
[quote name=\'MizzouRah!\' post=\'176374\' date=\'Jan 26 2008, 03:19 PM\']
Back to the subject of original GSN programming...Is there any known reason why GSN hasn't tried more revivals of simple but somewhat proven games of the past? [/quote]
Not sure which GSN you've been watching, but many of their 'originals' have been revivals of simple but somewhat proven games of the past. Whammy, IGAS, Lingo and Chain Reaction are all recent examples, and there have been others. So they're not only willing to do it, but they've had some of their biggest successes doing it. I couldn't tell you why specifically they haven't remade Now You See It or Trivia Trap, though you could argue that Camouflage has a lot of the feel of NYSI, and frankly, there's not enough original game to Trivia Trap to make it worth negotiating the rights to the format if all you want to do is make a trivia game show.
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First, to MikeK, the comment about 21-25 and 26-30 was meant as tongue in cheek. Anyone over 30 is in the definite minority at GSN. And yes, I wouldn't make the cut either.
And yes, I agree about CR, IGAS, etc.. CR was the most recent and that's been 2+ years. Lately it seems they've been trying, unsuccessfully, to reinvent the wheel(not 'of fortune'). Maybe trying some shows that viewers have only recently found on GSN might be worth remaking.
Personally I always thought Trivia Trap was a nice, simple yet enjoyable half hour(at least the first few months...the later months suffered). Compared to HMiEnough it's rocket science, so I don't think this would stop GSN. If rights are a problem/too costly, make a few subtle changes and run with it. Other possibilities such as Trebek's Double Dare, Gambit(especially w/ today's love of card games), etc.. I'm definitely no programmer, but it's obvious what they have now isn't bringing in tons of viewers, so there's a chance this could be a viable option, if cost effective. Maybe somewhere inside I'd just like to see if these shows would fly in today's market...And without any super-duper updates.
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...and "Debt!" revival could be a reality!!! Thank you George W... Can someone tell him playtime is over a long, long time ago...
Charles
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Other possibilities such as Trebek's Double Dare, Gambit(especially w/ today's love of card games), etc..
I think a remake of Gambit could work well for GSN. I think part of the problem with most of these older shows is that who really remembers them besides us? I doubt that very many people have even heard of Trivia Trap. Interestingly, on that Vicki! episode with game shows hosts from 1994 that some of us have, Vicki herself stated she didn't even remember it - and she was on it!
It would be neat for any future remakes that they could also air an episode or two of the originals so viewers could see where they originated from. In the case of Gambit, that would probably mean negotiating for a one-time airing, which you'd think wouldn't be that difficult.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'176433\' date=\'Jan 27 2008, 10:29 PM\']In the case of Gambit, that would probably mean negotiating for a one-time airing, which you'd think wouldn't be that difficult.[/quote]You don't remember the 50 Greatest Gameshows "special" they aired a couple of years ago, do ya?
'Freakin' Studs and all that.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'176433\' date=\'Jan 27 2008, 10:29 PM\']
Other possibilities such as Trebek's Double Dare, Gambit(especially w/ today's love of card games), etc..
I think a remake of Gambit could work well for GSN. I think part of the problem with most of these older shows is that who really remembers them besides us? I doubt that very many people have even heard of Trivia Trap. Interestingly, on that Vicki! episode with game shows hosts from 1994 that some of us have, Vicki herself stated she didn't even remember it - and she was on it!
It would be neat for any future remakes that they could also air an episode or two of the originals so viewers could see where they originated from. In the case of Gambit, that would probably mean negotiating for a one-time airing, which you'd think wouldn't be that difficult.
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GSN did try a remake of Gambit. The pilot was under the title of Casino and hosted by Ron Pearson. The whole pilot was posted two Thanksgivings ago in the huge clips thread.
Ah, yes here it is Just click on view video (http://\"http://www.distraction.com/catalogue_flash.asp?nav_id=1246&lang_id=E\"). EDIT: The link takes you to a different page. From there, click on Formats, then click on the Game Shows tab on the left, find Casino, then click on view video.