The Game Show Forum

The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: LA the DJ on May 17, 2007, 11:53:42 PM

Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: LA the DJ on May 17, 2007, 11:53:42 PM
Tonight I got into a discussion with a friend as to how strong the format is of The Price is Right, and if it will survive a new host or set/format changes.
I mentioned that I've always felt Family Feud is probably the strongest game show format out there, as it's survived so many incarnations and hosts. The play along aspect is so strong, and the family dynamic makes it fun.
So my question to you, the game show aficionados is this:
What is the strongest game show format in history?
Minus the bells and whistles, sets, hosts, what is the most enjoyable game to watch, simply for the game?
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: Chelsea Thrasher on May 17, 2007, 11:57:24 PM
For my money, it's Family Feud.  Even when it was being helmed by an individual with the hosting ability of Louie Anderson, you could still watch the show, and if you possessed a mute button and closed captioning, still enjoy what is - at it's core - a fun game.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: clemon79 on May 18, 2007, 12:08:15 AM
[quote name=\'nWo_Whammy\' post=\'152609\' date=\'May 17 2007, 08:53 PM\']
Minus the bells and whistles, sets, hosts, what is the most enjoyable game to watch, simply for the game?
[/quote]
Pyramid. The Winner's Circle is as interesting to watch on someone's couch as it is to watch on TV.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: PYLdude on May 18, 2007, 12:11:22 AM
For me, I'll take Jeopardy. A fast-paced quiz show with a bunch of different categories and a great play along factor...what's not to like?
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: BrandonFG on May 18, 2007, 12:18:33 AM
The Passwords. Easy to play along with at home, and very fun to play with friends.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: Jimmy Owen on May 18, 2007, 12:19:09 AM
A good number of my favorite shows (J!, $ale, Big Showdown, Split Second) involved three people with buzzers.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: fishbulb on May 18, 2007, 12:59:20 AM
I would choose the partner games, like Password and Pyramid, and my favorite, You Don't Say. They all had long runs, and great play-along value, and Pyramid had the most nerve-wracking 60 seconds in game show history.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: TimK2003 on May 18, 2007, 01:16:30 AM
[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' post=\'152610\' date=\'May 17 2007, 11:57 PM\']
For my money, it's Family Feud.  Even when it was being helmed by an individual with the hosting ability of Louie Anderson,... [/quote]

Don't give Richard Karn that much credit!!!
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: Neumms on May 18, 2007, 01:16:07 PM
[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'152619\' date=\'May 18 2007, 12:16 AM\']
[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' post=\'152610\' date=\'May 17 2007, 11:57 PM\']
For my money, it's Family Feud.  Even when it was being helmed by an individual with the hosting ability of Louie Anderson,... [/quote]

Don't give Richard Karn that much credit!!!
[/quote]

I love that one!

I say "Jeopardy!" for strongest format. It's such a simple game, yet has just enough wrinkles to be an interesting game. It has the drama Password doesn't, although Password is the best to play at home. And as great as the Winners' Circle is (in the right producer's hands), Pyramid's front game is lacking.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: Ian Wallis on May 18, 2007, 04:32:50 PM
Agreed with everything so far...but if you're talking about strong formats, Who Wants to be a Millionaire has to be right up there.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: JasonA1 on May 18, 2007, 04:42:12 PM
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'152688\' date=\'May 18 2007, 04:32 PM\']
Who Wants to be a Millionaire has to be right up there.
[/quote]

So you don't think it's mostly the money and atmosphere? Stuff like "Feud" and "Pyramid" as mentioned are just fun, it doesn't matter if it's my friends, celebrities...for $50,000, $20...but "Millionaire" not so much, IMO.

-Jason
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: clemon79 on May 18, 2007, 05:41:42 PM
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'152688\' date=\'May 18 2007, 01:32 PM\']
Agreed with everything so far...but if you're talking about strong formats, Who Wants to be a Millionaire has to be right up there.
[/quote]
Are you kidding?

Who Wants To Win Five Dollars would blow Chunks.

That's not the mark of a good format.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: tpirfan28 on May 18, 2007, 05:58:53 PM
Concentration ranks really high for me.  It operated on two levels...trying to remember the pairs and trying to solve the rebus.

Gotta agree with Lemon on this one though...nothing could top a well executed game of Pyramid.

/you did mean the Clark/Cullen/Davidson execution, right?
//notice someone was left outta that.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: Ian Wallis on May 18, 2007, 06:05:00 PM
Quote
So you don't think it's mostly the money and atmosphere? Stuff like "Feud" and "Pyramid" as mentioned are just fun, it doesn't matter if it's my friends, celebrities...for $50,000, $20...but "Millionaire" not so much, IMO.

I've played the box game a few times with friends and we've all had fun.  It's a challenge to see how far up the ladder you can get...but to each his own!
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: Robert Hutchinson on May 18, 2007, 06:42:00 PM
Strongest in potential? Pyramid.

Strongest in "you really have to work to screw this up"? I'm torn between The Price Is Right and Wheel of Fortune, honestly.

I would be tempted to vote for Family Feud, except that in the modern incarnation, I've seen how much fun can be sucked out of Fast Money by the producers' obvious budget shuffling. It's so rare to see a balanced FM now--instead, they seem to enjoy alternating between very difficult and very easy sets of questions.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: Jay Temple on May 18, 2007, 08:45:13 PM
One could probably point to a number of shows and just say that they're solid. I'd say that WoF, J! and Pyramid qualify, and maybe even Lingo. The Passwords I'm not so sure about.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: Chelsea Thrasher on May 18, 2007, 09:11:14 PM
[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' post=\'152763\' date=\'May 18 2007, 07:45 PM\']
The Passwords I'm not so sure about.
[/quote]

Password *used* to be. For the addition of Password Puzzles and Alphabetics, the core mechanics of the game were the same in the early 60s as they were in the late 80s.  Give one-word clues to help your partner guess a word.  

The problem is that a format that requires an ability to think, even slightly, seems like it would get lost among the OMG WIN T3H B1G MONIEZZZ IN A BRIEFCASE!!! Endamitol formats like DonD, etc. today.  With Password though, and how it would fare with today's audience, there's no way to know unless they actually bring it back.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: cacLA8383 on May 18, 2007, 09:47:10 PM
For me, it's Jeopardy. Whenever I have time to catch it, I do enjoy watching it simply for the gameplay.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: HYHYBT on May 18, 2007, 10:15:46 PM
Allowing "strongest format" to include being relatively difficult to mess up (for example, Jeopardy! is great as it's always been done, but imagine the clues poorly written and John Davidson having to read them) and I'd have to say Wheel of Fortune. Sure, they give away a ton of money, but the show did well enough even when the prizes were junk and they wasted large chunks of show time picking them out.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: bandit_bobby on May 18, 2007, 10:37:49 PM
Wheel of Fortune, no doubt.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: beatlefreak84 on May 18, 2007, 11:18:40 PM
The first thing that came to my mind was J!, for the exact reasons that everybody's brought up so far.  I'll also agree with WOF; yes, there's certainly a lot more chrome and gimmicks nowadays, but the core game is still there, and, even if they did away with all the gimmicks, I'm willing to bet people would still be crowded around the TV watching it.

However, given how much fun my friends in college and I had playing the home game (only one of which was also a game show nut), I'm willing to put Pyramid ahead of J!.  It's just an all-around fun game to watch as well as play, and everyone can get involved.

I should really whip that game out again...:)

Anthony
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: MyronMMeyer on May 19, 2007, 01:27:00 AM
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'152613\' date=\'May 17 2007, 11:11 PM\']
For me, I'll take Jeopardy. A fast-paced quiz show with a bunch of different categories and a great play along factor...what's not to like?
[/quote]

What's not to like? Final Jeopardy, the worst "bonus round" in game show history. That's what not to like.

-M
Italics in quote added by me.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: MyronMMeyer on May 19, 2007, 01:29:30 AM
Oh, and best game show format? 1st place is a tie between Hollywood Squares and Street Smarts, which are at their essence the same game. Anyone could play those two games, and they were both wicked fun to watch.

-M
Realizes that "The Wager of Death" is the exact same bonus round as "Final Jeopardy". A Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: PYLdude on May 19, 2007, 01:39:00 AM
[quote name=\'MyronMMeyer\' post=\'152805\' date=\'May 19 2007, 01:29 AM\']
Oh, and best game show format? 1st place is a tie between Hollywood Squares and Street Smarts, which are at their essence the same game.[/quote]

How so? Squares was tic-tac-toe with celebrities, Street Smarts was a Tonight Show segment converted into a game show. Squares was trying to figure out if the answer given was real or a bluff, Street Smarts was trying to predict if an answer was right or wrong. (Maybe a small similarity there, if anything, but not much.)

(I do agree with your last point, however.)

[quote name=\'MyronMMeyer\' post=\'152804\' date=\'May 19 2007, 01:27 AM\']
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'152613\' date=\'May 17 2007, 11:11 PM\']
For me, I'll take Jeopardy. A fast-paced quiz show with a bunch of different categories and a great play along factor...what's not to like?
[/quote]

What's not to like? Final Jeopardy, the worst "bonus round" in game show history. That's what not to like.
[/quote]

...except Final Jeopardy is not a "bonus round." It's part of the regular game. Where have you seen all players involved in a game play a bonus round?
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: MyronMMeyer on May 19, 2007, 01:57:56 AM
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'152807\' date=\'May 19 2007, 12:39 AM\']
...except Final Jeopardy is not a "bonus round." It's part of the regular game. Where have you seen all players involved in a game play a bonus round?
[/quote]

Hence the quotation marks. I could have called it a "final round", but then we'd have repeated the word "final", wouldn't have we. Elegance over accuracy. And no matter how you define it, it randomizes the game to such a degree that the best player often loses. Yes, I know, that's one reason they call it "Jeopardy" (and I've got no quarrel with the Daily Doubles contradictorily enough) but Final Jeopardy (in the Trebek era) is just a dumb way to end the game.

And as I mentioned, Squares is the best format because anyone with the ability to say "Agree" or "disagree" could play. And it's fun to watch. The best games are both fun to watch and easy to play. Those people who said Family Feud earlier understand. That's another really good format.

I'm talking "game" shows here. As someone mentioned earlier, the best "quiz" show formats feature 3 people and 3 buzzers, with just a hint of unfairness thrown in. Sale of the Century is the undisputed king here, with Win Ben Stein's Money and Split Second battling for 2nd place.

For real fun, ask me what I think the worst game show format is. We'll see if I have the cojones to post it.

-M
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: JasonA1 on May 19, 2007, 02:10:21 AM
I'm curious as to what your worst format is, but you and several others seem to be missing the point of the thread, or just submitting some really odd choices. The OP asked "minus the bells and whistles" and all of that. Meaning if played in front of some chalkboards in a classroom with nobodies, what games are still fun? "Squares" with my aunts and uncles in the cubicles with an apple pie at stake would be absolutely boring to watch. "Street Smarts" still qualifies I think, but it's not as definitive as "Feud." As was said already, all the bad sets, generic techno music and bland sitcom actors couldn't bring it down.

-Jason
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: MyronMMeyer on May 19, 2007, 02:38:22 AM
[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'152813\' date=\'May 19 2007, 01:10 AM\']
I'm curious as to what your worst format is, but you and several others seem to be missing the point of the thread, or just submitting some really odd choices.
[/quote]

The third option (which is also the correct one) is both.

You're right, I did miss the point of the question. I instead picked my own question, and answered it, in your thread, which is certainly not fair dinkum.

I don't have an immediate answer to "Minus the bells and whistles, sets, hosts, what is the most enjoyable game to watch, simply for the game?" My initial inclination is "Games aren't de facto fun to watch, they're fun to play. It's the bells and whistles and personalities that make them fun to watch on TV." But that's not an answer either. Let's say Countdown for an answer until I think of something better. (Scrabble would seem to work without the bells and whistles, too, I think.)

And since you asked, the worst game format, purely from a gameplay standpoint, is the televised raffle/beat the random number generator that is The Price is Right. Unbelievably fun to watch, to be sure, but unbelievably lame as a game. Minus the bells and whistles and Bob Barker and the Hee Haw Honeys, you're just guessing the third digit in the price of a Buick. Seriously, who cares?

Your original question could be rephrased "Which games work best in the 'home edition' format", yes? It's a good question.

-M
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: Matt Ottinger on May 19, 2007, 08:44:33 AM
Myron's point about TPIR is excellent.  Even though there are 75 of them, there's not much "game" there.

I'll throw out an even more radical notion.  To me, if we're talking about a "game", most of the three-people-on-a-buzzer shows -- even Jeopardy -- aren't all that clever.  Buzz in, answer the question, and try to do it more often than your opponent.

Personally, I'm a Bob Stewart acolyte*.  He created distinctly original formats.  Sure, eventually he started ripping off his own ideas  Still, you look at TTTT, Pyramid (the perfected Password, IMO), Jackpot, Three on a Match and the like, and there's some interesting stuff going on.  

There's also the question of whether a "format" is different than a "game".  Family Feud, Child's Play and Go are to me some examples of very interesting games that are hurt somewhat by dull, derivative and/or vaguely flawed scoring systems. And to go full circle back to Myron's TPIR point, I would argue that the structure/format of TPIR is strong, it's the games themselves that are weak.

*Bigger than first grade word.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: DrBear on May 19, 2007, 09:20:29 AM
If you're going to credit all three-on-a-buzzer games as a single format, I'd vote for Split Second as the best one - not only requiring knowledge but strategy (get the easiest answer first and nail your opponents with the harder ones).

However - and I'm consistent as I voted for this as the best game evah in the poll a while back - I'd say To Tell The Truth/Play Your Hunch (basically the same format - which of these three is the real one?) Great play-along factor, works with or without a panel (but much better with a good panel.  Yeah, "You Like Like a Dog" sucked, but nothing's perfect.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: DoorNumberFour on May 19, 2007, 11:32:53 AM
I'd say either Concentration or The Who, What or Where Game.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: BrandonFG on May 19, 2007, 12:25:26 PM
I would also like to nominate "The Big Showdown". The "payoff point" was absolutely BRILLIANT, IMO.

Would love to see a similar idea instituted for the bonus round, while still using the elements of the original bonus round. In other words, to win the big money, you have to hit, say, 25 on the dot. Roll the die to build up to that, and if your roll gives you more than 25, roll again.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: GSFan on May 19, 2007, 12:34:44 PM
For certain, Pyramid is my favorite game, closely followed by Password.  The simplest games are the best; guess the subject and answer the question (or question the answer), win the money; guess the right price, win the prize.

It was so exciting, that it felt like The Ed Sullivan Theater was shaking every time a Winner's Circle round was won in the early days of Pyramid.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: gwarman2005 on May 19, 2007, 02:22:40 PM
I thought the quiz show style, before everyone needed multiple choices, were the most compelling formats.  The Joker's Wild, TTD, Split Second, etc all had their own unique gimmick but in the end you had to know your stuff.  It was the matter of getting on TV and proving that you were the smartest one in the group that day.
Title: The strongest format(s)?
Post by: Neumms on May 19, 2007, 03:56:36 PM
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'152825\' date=\'May 19 2007, 07:44 AM\']
Myron's point about TPIR is excellent.  Even though there are 75 of them, there's not much "game" there.

There's also the question of whether a "format" is different than a "game".  Family Feud, Child's Play and Go are to me some examples of very interesting games that are hurt somewhat by dull, derivative and/or vaguely flawed scoring systems. And to go full circle back to Myron's TPIR point, I would argue that the structure/format of TPIR is strong, it's the games themselves that are weak.
[/quote]

Let me disagree a little bit. There is a game there. "How much would you pay for this?" is as interesting a game as there is. It gets steamrolled by the carnival parts, but the one-bids and showcases are still good TV. It's even fun to play, not so much the home game but, say, in the furniture department at Bloomingdale's.

I'll even say the Cullen version would work in prime time today if the Barker version hadn't been around all these years.

And, of course, to further bolster your other point, it's Bob Stewart, too.