The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Blanquepage on August 07, 2006, 09:28:45 PM
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Any speculation that the Woolery episodes / early Sajak episodes are hidden in a vault can be put to rest.
NBC did NOT destroy the Woolery run. The ridiculous notion that Merv himself destroyed Chuck's episodes out of spite is false as well.
The official word, as per a representative of King World, is this: Woolery's version and some of Sajak's early years are gone for the same reason as ABC Password. It was the company policy to use and reuse the tapes, a practice which continued until the 80s.
Simply put, the masters ARE gone because they taped over 'em.
Fin.
--Jamie
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Which I count as destruction - but not malicious destruction, given the high cost of tape stock back then.
Malicious destruction would be what happened to the Du Mont library. NBC (and others), in contrast, were merely shortsighted and financially conscious.
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The official word, as per a representative of King World, is this: Woolery's version and some of Sajak's early years are gone for the same reason as ABC Password. It was the company policy to use and reuse the tapes, a practice which continued until the 80s.
Simply put, the masters ARE gone because they taped over 'em.
Wow...to me that's a bit of a shock that anything from the early '80s is gone, especially with all the talk we heard about 1978 over the years. I guess you just never know what still might exist and what doesn't.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Fiono Coyne\' post=\'126569\' date=\'Aug 7 2006, 09:28 PM\']
The official word, as per a representative of King World, is this: Woolery's version and some of Sajak's early years are gone for the same reason as ABC Password. It was the company policy to use and reuse the tapes, a practice which continued until the 80s.
Simply put, the masters ARE gone because they taped over 'em.
[/quote]
Well, shoot. While it's good to put the speculation to rest, it's sad to know they're gone. I'm shocked too; I assumed everything after 1978 was still around.
At least we can be thankful for the few episodes that survived...
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Simply put, the masters ARE gone because they taped over 'em.
Lol. *TPIR Losing Horns*
I know this seems like an incredibly logical end, but I still find it funny.
"Say, whatever happened to that one episode of Wheel of Fortune?"
"Oh, I taped over it."
"Dammit!"
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That's okay. One of these days, if humanity doesn't get blown out of existence, someone will invent a time machine, and then we can take pocket video recorders with 20TB drives and jump through time, recovering all of the old lost programming (in better quality than we ever had before for the really early stuff, given the relatively low quality of kines).
...ok, I'll wake up now, as I'm obviously sleep-posting. Still, that's something nice to imagine happening.
On a tangent, I really would like to see people start trading game shows over the Internet. A single-layer DVD-R is only 4.37GB, and even with the slow upstream connections that most people have, it would probably be faster to trade that way, as opposed to sending physical media. Plus, the more widely you spread the eps you have, the lesser the chance of that particular video being irreparably destroyed.
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[quote name=\'LocalH\' post=\'126594\' date=\'Aug 7 2006, 10:59 PM\']
On a tangent, I really would like to see people start trading game shows over the Internet. A single-layer DVD-R is only 4.37GB, and even with the slow upstream connections that most people have, it would probably be faster to trade that way, as opposed to sending physical media.
[/quote]
Uh, yeah.
(This is about one step up the food chain from "have a heart", if you ask me.)
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Well, I'm coming at this from an angle of preservation first. It's my assertion that the best way to preserve this stuff is to distribute it as widely as possible. This same issue comes up in the prototype videogame scene - you have people who "hoard" carts and refuse to dump them, and you have the people that dump and release games in order to further their preservation. Both prototype videogames and game shows have one thing in common that is vital here - if left alone, they will eventually degrade to the point of unusability.
I don't see it as anything close to "have a heart", because I'm not advocating this in order to gain from it myself or for some utopian ideal, although that would be an indirect result (but everyone else would benefit too). The ratio system I mentioned would require someone to share. Hell, the ratio could be set to 1:1, where you have to upload just as much as you download.
Hell, if I actually had a game show collection, I'd be happily willing to seed some torrents and get the eps out there. As it stands, I've only got a few eps of PYL (including a crappy quality copy of the pilot, and two copies of the third Second Chance pilot), so I wouldn't be the best person to try something like this.
But this is off-topic for this thread, so I won't go any further down this discussion here - if it's warranted, I'll start a new thread.
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With NBC, it seems very hit and miss with very little rhyme or reason as to what still exists and what doesn’t. There have been rumours over the years that the first year or so of Sale of the Century is also gone. Here’s what we know:
Fun Factory from 1976, still exists
Gong Show from 1976, still exists
Card Sharks from 1978, still exists
Jeopardy from 1978, still exists
Password Plus from 1979, still exists
Wheel of Fortune 75-early ‘80s, gone
Hollywood Squares, most daytime episodes gone
Mindreaders from ’79, probably gone
Still in question:
Battlestars
Hit Man
Just Men
Sale of the Century (first year)
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'126636\' date=\'Aug 8 2006, 02:29 PM\']
Gong Show from 1976, still exists
[/quote]
One reason for GONG still existing--Firestone syndicating three sets of rerun packages (encompassing most if not all of the eps) between 1978 and 1980 (eventually these eps wound up on USA). Although David Schwartz did tell me years ago (I SWARE!) that GSN only had about half the run (and only 20 eps of those weren't airable because of clearance issues). GSN only ran about 220 of the 501 daytime episodes over the course of the two years they ran the series, so what Schwartz told me would seem to have some merit.
Doug
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First of all, hearing that is just unfortunate, and it leaves the purists and casual watchers alike disappointed.
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'126636\' date=\'Aug 8 2006, 02:29 PM\']
With NBC, it seems very hit and miss with very little rhyme or reason as to what still exists and what doesn’t. There have been rumours over the years that the first year or so of Sale of the Century is also gone. Here’s what we know:
[cut ot preserve space and time]
Still in question:
Battlestars
Hit Man
Just Men
Sale of the Century (first year)
[/quote]
For the record, was it mentioned the Scrabble still exists, as per rumors of the first year were gone as well? Or did I completely miss the memo?
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'126636\' date=\'Aug 8 2006, 03:29 PM\']Still in question:
Hit Man[/quote]
This is definitely still around but it can't rerun due to one-time usage rights to images and music.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Fiono Coyne\' post=\'126569\' date=\'Aug 7 2006, 08:28 PM\']
The official word, as per a representative of King World, [/quote]
Because a second person other than yourself around here can provide confirmation of this - that you actually spoke to a KW rep?
[quote name=\'Jimmy Fiono Coyne\' post=\'126569\' date=\'Aug 7 2006, 08:28 PM\']
is this: Woolery's version and some of Sajak's early years are gone for the same reason as ABC Password. It was the company policy to use and reuse the tapes, a practice which continued until the 80s.
Simply put, the masters ARE gone because they taped over 'em.
[/quote]
Sorry Jamie, you've got a bit long of a track record of not being entirely truthful, and for something this big, well...no. Admittedly, you haven't given me a great reason not to believe you, but at the same time, you haven't really done anything to suggest that you're being more honest than you were and TO believe you.
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[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' post=\'126649\' date=\'Aug 8 2006, 03:14 PM\']
Sorry Jamie, you've got a bit long of a track record of not being entirely truthful,
[/quote]
He does? First I'd heard.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'126652\' date=\'Aug 8 2006, 05:36 PM\']
He does? First I'd heard.
[/quote]
As short as I can make it
It's really more of a thing gained from the trading side of the game show community. Consistently and frequently over the last four years, he's claimed to be making tapes owed me, then claims to sends them, then says he hasn't, then says he is, then says he hasn't, then "forgets" for awhile, then repeat. And from what I've come to understand, I'm not the only one he's done this to. (I tried to keep this off the board in an attempt to keep trading things away, but I figured if I'm gonna level a charge at someone, I'd better defend it) I know Jamie deep down IS a good guy. But I've just been lied to (or ignored) by the guy one too many times in four years to believe anything without proof.
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[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' post=\'126653\' date=\'Aug 8 2006, 03:45 PM\']
As short as I can make it
It's really more of a thing gained from the trading side of the game show community.
[/quote]
Ah. Yet another reason why I don't touch that stuff with a ten-foot pole. Not because of the potential for blowoff, but I just don't need the drama.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'126654\' date=\'Aug 8 2006, 05:50 PM\']
Not because of the potential for blowoff, but I just don't need the drama.
[/quote]
One of the reasons I've done it exactly once in three years, and that was a quickie with a good friend. Certainly not fond of it myself.
Anyway, to get back on topic: If it IS true, then it's a damn shame. I'd long ago consigned myself to reality that the daytime shows probably weren't going to get reaired again, but to know they really are gone would definitely be sad. And that the majority of early Sajak episodes are gone too is, at least from my perspective the bigger suprise.
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WOF has enough existing shows that it doesn't really bother me too much. I'd rather see the Bob Stewart shows of the '70's. I would place the responsibility of saving shows on the producer. Merv saved his talk show (now on DVD), but not WOF, no biggie. Columbia Pictures cared enough to save Enberg's "Perfect Match," "All About Faces" and "Fun Factory," all of which fewer than 10 people on the planet ever want to see.
What about network airchecks? Isn't that how ABC Feud exists?
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Apparently Reg Grundy has a large 'personal stash' of tapes of just about everything that his company did until he sold it in the mid-90s, and now he's employing someone to convert his old tapes to DVD.
This is separate from any network or production company archive, and it was apparently just saved as part of his personal passion for his product. He doesn't own the copyright to his programs anymore, but it's still kinda refreshing to know that everything exists somewhere out there.
Shame that the people in charge of the Woolery/early Sajak eps of Wheel didn't have the same passion
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In some fifty-something's closet somewhere out there in Podunk, NE, I would *not* be surprised if there's a huge stash of 20-25 year old VHS tapes of the late 70s/early 80s episodes. Of the couple hundred million people alive at the time, someone at least *could have* had the passion for the show to record them.
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[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' post=\'126668\' date=\'Aug 8 2006, 10:04 PM\']
In some fifty-something's closet somewhere out there in Podunk, NE, I would *not* be surprised if there's a huge stash of 20-25 year old VHS tapes of the late 70s/early 80s episodes. Of the couple hundred million people alive at the time, someone at least *could have* had the passion for the show to record them.
[/quote]
My thoughts exactly; it was that mindset that led me to find 8 Wheel episodes at my grandmother's house. (Don't get too excited though; the oldest was from 1991.) I'm sure these rarities are out there; it's just a matter of finding them.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Fiono Coyne\' post=\'126569\' date=\'Aug 7 2006, 09:28 PM\']
Any speculation that the Woolery episodes / early Sajak episodes are hidden in a vault can be put to rest.
NBC did NOT destroy the Woolery run. The ridiculous notion that Merv himself destroyed Chuck's episodes out of spite is false as well.
The official word, as per a representative of King World, is this: Woolery's version and some of Sajak's early years are gone for the same reason as ABC Password. It was the company policy to use and reuse the tapes, a practice which continued until the 80s.
Simply put, the masters ARE gone because they taped over 'em.
Fin.
--Jamie
[/quote]
Wow. This makes me wonder how E! got a hold of the video clips of the very first Woolery episode. Merv must have at least saved clips or something....
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[quote name=\'Allstar87\' post=\'126686\' date=\'Aug 9 2006, 01:48 AM\']
[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' post=\'126668\' date=\'Aug 8 2006, 10:04 PM\']
In some fifty-something's closet somewhere out there in Podunk, NE, I would *not* be surprised if there's a huge stash of 20-25 year old VHS tapes of the late 70s/early 80s episodes. Of the couple hundred million people alive at the time, someone at least *could have* had the passion for the show to record them.
[/quote]
My thoughts exactly; it was that mindset that led me to find 8 Wheel episodes at my grandmother's house. (Don't get too excited though; the oldest was from 1991.) I'm sure these rarities are out there; it's just a matter of finding them.
[/quote]
I kinda doubt too many people were taping game shows with any regularity in the early '80's. I got my first VCR for $700 in 1984 and as I recall, one VHS tape was $15.00 and the only store that sold blank tapes was the appliance place where I got the machine. You couldn't just run to the drug store and get a ten pack of tapes for $10.00 back then.
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Oddly enough, on two separate occasions when I was looking for something else, I've found two VHS tapes chock full of game shows at my local Goodwill. Of course, it was mostly Wheel from 1992-93, but that's still not a bad find for a dollar. All the fun local station ads and whatnot.
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Although I would believe somebody out there was taping these shows in the 70s, the question would be whether they kept them. Even in 1986, tapes were so expensive that I often taped the USA reruns of "Liar's Club" over themselves (I could've had about a dozen eps rather than the two I ended up keeping). Tapes were $6 each then; imagine how much they were in 1978.
I can see Griffin making a special effort to keep the premiere from getting re-used... if nothing else than to have a ready-made pilot for nighttime syndication pitches.
(I'd pay through the nose for the chance to rescue the Bill Cullen ep from the ether. That and at least one ep of Garagiola "Sale.")
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[quote name=\'ChrisLambert!\' post=\'126704\' date=\'Aug 9 2006, 07:59 AM\']
Although I would believe somebody out there was taping these shows in the 70s, the question would be whether they kept them. Even in 1986, tapes were so expensive that I often taped the USA reruns of "Liar's Club" over themselves (I could've had about a dozen eps rather than the two I ended up keeping). Tapes were $6 each then; imagine how much they were in 1978.
I can see Griffin making a special effort to keep the premiere from getting re-used... if nothing else than to have a ready-made pilot for nighttime syndication pitches. [/quote]
And to send out to the overseas licensees to show them how the show is done. I'm sure sample tapes are sent to every format licensee along with the bible and other goodies.
And in the case of those old "Winner Take All" shows, I presume they exist only because G-T wanted a sample to show to advertisers (both of those eps were sustaining, or unsponsored).
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Because a second person other than yourself around here can provide confirmation of this - that you actually spoke to a KW rep?
Actually, yes, I am in direct correspondence with a KW representative.
I've never supplied false information to this board in an attempt to deceive the masses. This is not a false claim, either. If you must know, the said rep and I are corresponding due to his interest in acquring material from my library for use on assorted upcoming specials.
As for Seth's other points, he and I will relegate the matter it to private conversation as it's more of a years old personal issue. Without getting too much into it, Seth is indeed correct in noting that I have a long outstanding trade with him as I do with Chuck Donegan. That's pretty much why I've retreated from making any new trades on trading circuit and just elected to make Page O' Clips to share what I've got at my own accord, which I haven't even had time to update for that matter.
I was a lousy trader who had a habit of bogging himself down with multiple trades and taking forever to complete them. Amends are in the process of being made, however, as Chuck and Seth are 2 of the 4 people I'm planning on sending VHS tapes from my DVD transfers.
know Jamie deep down IS a good guy
Er, gee, thanks.
--Jamie
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Although I would believe somebody out there was taping these shows in the 70s, the question would be whether they kept them.
Another question would be does that person want to get involved with sending out tapes. I've been trading for 10 years, and although I've been burned twice, for the most part it's been a lot of fun. But if you have someone out there who has tapes of late '70s games that they saved and may not know about the "trading curcuit", convincing them to make copies and send them to you may not be that easy.
I'm sure there is a lot of other stuff out there but maybe some of those people aren't "internet savvy"; still, with more stuff becoming available all the time, hopefully we'll continue to uncover some gems.
Even in 1986, tapes were so expensive that I often taped the USA reruns of "Liar's Club" over themselves (I could've had about a dozen eps rather than the two I ended up keeping). Tapes were $6 each then; imagine how much they were in 1978.
I guess a lot of us are in the same boat. I did that too - and to think what I erased in the early years of owning a VCR :(
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Fiono Coyne\' post=\'126730\' date=\'Aug 9 2006, 01:50 PM\']
Actually, yes, I am in direct correspondence with a KW representative.
I've never supplied false information to this board in an attempt to deceive the masses. This is not a false claim, either. If you must know, the said rep and I are corresponding due to his interest in acquring material from my library for use on assorted upcoming specials.
[/quote]
FWIW, at least regarding the KW thing, I have absolutely zero reason to doubt that you say, but I'd hope we can both agree that after 4 years, it's gotten kind of hard to believe you. Still, without evidence to the contrary, then I'm inclined to believe you - at least about the KW thing. And it IS a damned shame. (And congrats on the last part, BTW)
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but I'd hope we can both agree that after 4 years, it's gotten kind of hard to believe you.
If that be the case, then I would hope that this incredulity doesn't apply to many people other than you.
--Jamie
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Fiono Coyne\' post=\'126748\' date=\'Aug 9 2006, 02:05 PM\']
If that be the case, then I would hope that this incredulity doesn't apply to many people other than you.
[/quote]
FWIW, Jamie, I didn't even know anything about this until Seth dredged it up, it hasn't changed my opinion of you one iota, and I could be quite content not to hear about it again.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'126758\' date=\'Aug 9 2006, 04:22 PM\']
and I could be quite content not to hear about it again.
[/quote]
And I am quite content to never bring it up again. :-)
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'126731\' date=\'Aug 9 2006, 02:56 PM\']
I guess a lot of us are in the same boat. I did that too - and to think what I erased in the early years of owning a VCR :(
[/quote]
Some of the things I regret taping over are:
2nd episode of "Press Your Luck" with original commercials
FAM's game show block from Jan 2, 1989
MG90 entire first week w/o/c and 1st episode of second week
And one thing I'd love to have....Something obtained purely by chance on a "sick day" from school (Thanksgiving Eve 1989), an episode of "Sally Jessy Raphael" - featuring game show legends Kitty Carlisle, Peggy Cass, Gene Rayburn and also Soupy Sales. The show featured two MG clips - one of Gene reading a question, and a promo I've not seen since for MG (syndie): "Gene Rayburn...the face that launched a thousand quips".
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[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' post=\'126760\' date=\'Aug 9 2006, 05:31 PM\']
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'126758\' date=\'Aug 9 2006, 04:22 PM\']
and I could be quite content not to hear about it again.
[/quote]
And I am quite content to never bring it up again. :-)
[/quote]
For the record, although I can't find the post right now (unusual for the "head Googler," I know), I'm fairly certain that a while back, Jamie posted a long, detailed message on ATGS listing the various excuses he'd given for his failure to complete trades, apologizing both for said failure and for his excuses, and promising to do better in the future. Since then, I've heard nothing to suggest that Jamie has gone back on his word (in contrast to a couple of folks whose names I won't give here), and even if he didn't intend for it to be so, I think his "Page O'Clips" has been a fine way for him to prove that he's changed. I don't think that someone who's failed to share his game show goodies one-on-one in the past can change much more than by sharing them with pretty much everyone.
I have often pointed to Jamie -- along with Chris "GSCrank" Jackson and B.J. Brown, among others -- as proof that it is indeed possible for scammers, liars, and other assorted miscreants in the game show community to change their ways and become solid citizens. "I can't help myself" and similar excuses don't carry much weight with me when such clear evidence exists to demonstrate otherwise.
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I have often pointed to Jamie -- along with Chris "GSCrank" Jackson and B.J. Brown, among others -- as proof that it is indeed possible for scammers, liars, and other assorted miscreants in the game show community to change their ways and become solid citizens.
Geez, those ATGS days feel like they were an eternity ago. Wow, I was a miscreant. Scary.
Any posts with my name on them on ATGS were that of a maturity-lacking irresponsible angsty teen.
Now I'm an adult. Simple as that.
And I'm glad you can't find that post either. It spares me the pain of reading it.
--Jamie
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[quote name=\'mitchgroff\' post=\'126699\' date=\'Aug 9 2006, 06:45 AM\']
Oddly enough, on two separate occasions when I was looking for something else, I've found two VHS tapes chock full of game shows at my local Goodwill. Of course, it was mostly Wheel from 1992-93, but that's still not a bad find for a dollar. All the fun local station ads and whatnot.
[/quote]
There are a number of tapes floating around the trading circuit where someone just rolled a beta tape on NBC's daytime lineup in the late '70s and early '80s and managed to capture Wheel of Fortune, The Hollywood Squares, Card Sharks, Blockbusters and some other goodies. (Also non-games ranging from Donahue to The Doctors.) And they survived all these years. Why they did this, I don't know.
But here's what's really interesting: When NBC cancelled The Hollywood Squares, another New York station ran it in the mornings. Whoever taped these shows switched over to record the Vegas-era Squares and then switched back to NBC's lineup. They managed to save several more Squares in the process but we also miss out on Las Vegas Gambit.
The moral of this story is: you never know what will turn up on an old tape. Just because some of us didn't save our shows that we taped doesn't mean someone else didn't do it.
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[quote name=\'cweaver\' post=\'127224\' date=\'Aug 13 2006, 10:00 AM\']
There are a number of tapes floating around the trading circuit where someone just rolled a beta tape on NBC's daytime lineup in the late '70s and early '80s and managed to capture Wheel of Fortune, The Hollywood Squares, Card Sharks, Blockbusters and some other goodies. (Also non-games ranging from Donahue to The Doctors.) And they survived all these years. Why they did this, I don't know.
[/quote]
Those were taped off WNBC-4; there are also some ones floating around that were taped off WABC-7. The WABC-7 ones that I've seen are a syndie ep of "The Gong Show" and the first wee bit of "Mork and Mindy". Also floating around is one that ran from approx. 10:10am-11:50am from WABC-7. This includes the last part of the 7 Morning Movie; a complete episode of "Laverne & Shirley" from its daytime rerun (with a weird edit in the theme I've never seen), and the first 20 minutes of "Family Feud".
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Also floating around is one that ran from approx. 10:10am-11:50am from WABC-7. This includes the last part of the 7 Morning Movie; a complete episode of "Laverne & Shirley" from its daytime rerun (with a weird edit in the theme I've never seen), and the first 20 minutes of "Family Feud".
Ahh....ABC. It makes you shake your head sometimes with some of the things they did in daytime back then! I can't recall the weird edit - I was never a fan of Laverne and Shirley - but they did a few odd things with the daytime Happy Days reruns back then too, such as running the third season opening over the first two seasons shows, where "Rock Around the Clock" was the opening theme.
There are a number of tapes floating around the trading circuit where someone just rolled a beta tape on NBC's daytime lineup in the late '70s and early '80s and managed to capture Wheel of Fortune, The Hollywood Squares, Card Sharks, Blockbusters and some other goodies.
It's a good thing they did. Some more Trebek High Rollers and All-Star Secrets recently turned up. The A-SS episode is the only one with clear video out of the three we have. OK, maybe it's not the greatest show in the world, but it's still nice to have one with clear video!
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'127329\' date=\'Aug 14 2006, 07:31 AM\']
The A-SS episode is the only one with clear video out of the three we have.
[/quote]
ASS. How appropriate. ;)
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ASS. How appropriate. ;)
Yes, that's why I put the - between the A and the S. I didn't know if I could say ASS on this board. Wait...I just did... :)
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'127329\' date=\'Aug 14 2006, 10:31 AM\']
Ahh....ABC. It makes you shake your head sometimes with some of the things they did in daytime back then! I can't recall the weird edit - I was never a fan of Laverne and Shirley - but they did a few odd things with the daytime Happy Days reruns back then too, such as running the third season opening over the first two seasons shows, where "Rock Around the Clock" was the opening theme.
[/quote]
It had to do with the theme, much like you said HD did. I will look when I get home, but they cut some lyrics out of the theme. It also looked like the episodes looked dated and grainy as well, almost like a color kinescope - were the HD repeats the same way?
ObGameShow: I remember reading somewhere (maybe here?) that one episode that was NOT in the HD daytime rotation was the one where Richie went on that fixed game show.
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It had to do with the theme, much like you said HD did. I will look when I get home, but they cut some lyrics out of the theme. It also looked like the episodes looked dated and grainy as well, almost like a color kinescope - were the HD repeats the same way?
ObGameShow: I remember reading somewhere (maybe here?) that one episode that was NOT in the HD daytime rotation was the one where Richie went on that fixed game show.
Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure I remember one episode that aired with the "Rock Around the Clock" theme in daytime; but yes, as I recall they looked pretty grainy. Not at all like the clear prime time episodes.
As for the one not in rotation, I'll check my old TVGuides, but I thought it was the one where Fonzie was going to marry the stripper. I'm pretty sure I saw the listing for the game show one during the daytime, but I'll try to check when I have some time.
Another odd thing that ABC did was they didn't run the episodes in chronological order. Most of the other daytime reruns on any of the networks were. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that when Happy Days went daytime, it only had two seasons under its belt.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'127340\' date=\'Aug 14 2006, 11:45 AM\']
Another odd thing that ABC did was they didn't run the episodes in chronological order. Most of the other daytime reruns on any of the networks were. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that when Happy Days went daytime, it only had two seasons under its belt.
[/quote]
Yup, sounds about right. Curt's page lists it as joining the ABC daytime lineup on 9/1/75, right before its third season. And it's been so long since daytime reruns were on, but I would imagine it was like syndicated reruns where the current season's eps wouldn't air in the rotation. I can't imagine for the first year or so that it took too terribly long to run through the entire series, much like when "Three's a Crowd" ran on the daytime schedule 10 years later.
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[quote name=\'aaron sica\' post=\'127238\' date=\'Aug 13 2006, 11:45 AM\']
Those were taped off WNBC-4; there are also some ones floating around that were taped off WABC-7. [/quote]
...And for the record, the two lineups I have were taped off WNBC. But the Hollywood Squares channel switch was to and from WPIX, Channel 11, which showed the "Vegas" Squares in the mornings.
BTW the WNBC lineups included a cool syndicated nighttime Family Feud promo with Richard Dawson.
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[quote name=\'cweaver\' post=\'127437\' date=\'Aug 14 2006, 11:00 PM\']
...And for the record, the two lineups I have were taped off WNBC. But the Hollywood Squares channel switch was to and from WPIX, Channel 11, which showed the "Vegas" Squares in the mornings.
[/quote]
I remember that as it aired, too; IIRC, they aired from 10am-11am, with the Vegas Squares first and then $50,000 Pyramid following. As a small child I remember not liking the Vegas Squares because they kept track with X's and O's on the scoreboard instead of an actual score.
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[quote name=\'aaron sica\' post=\'127438\' date=\'Aug 14 2006, 10:09 PM\']
I remember that as it aired, too; IIRC, they aired from 10am-11am, with the Vegas Squares first and then $50,000 Pyramid following. As a small child I remember not liking the Vegas Squares because they kept track with X's and O's on the scoreboard instead of an actual score.
[/quote]
You're right, that did look kind of odd. Seems like they would've replaced that with light-up x's and o's and just left the tabulating readout out of it. Then again they were probably hoping to rebuild enough of a following and cash flow to get back to cash prizes again one day.
Before the end of the year I'm going to add a page to my website explaining every obvious problem with the Vegas Squares. There were quite a few of them that I think sank the show.
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[quote name=\'cweaver\' post=\'127466\' date=\'Aug 15 2006, 05:46 AM\']
You're right, that did look kind of odd. Seems like they would've replaced that with light-up x's and o's and just left the tabulating readout out of it. Then again they were probably hoping to rebuild enough of a following and cash flow to get back to cash prizes again one day.
[/quote]
Why replace it? They already had a set built, and they found a way to use it with their new format. Why incur additional expense?
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'127470\' date=\'Aug 15 2006, 08:35 AM\']
Why replace it? They already had a set built, and they found a way to use it with their new format. Why incur additional expense?
[/quote]
They could've covered it up and used the lightable X's and O's that were already on the set, and it wouldn't have been expensive.
But that was the very least of the problems for the Vegas Squares.
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[quote name=\'aaron sica\' post=\'127337\' date=\'Aug 14 2006, 11:25 AM\']
It had to do with the theme, much like you said HD did. I will look when I get home, but they cut some lyrics out of the theme. It also looked like the episodes looked dated and grainy as well, almost like a color kinescope - were the HD repeats the same way?[/quote]
If I may drift off-topic here, you just reminded me of something. I don't know if anyone here is into Green Acres, but I noticed a number of years ago that there's one episode of it whose video quality is unbelievably worse than all the others'. If I remember right, it's the one where Fred and Doris Ziffel go on a second honeymoon, and while they're away, Arnold gets drafted, and Oliver has to go to court to explain to the government that Arnold can't join the army because he's a pig. (And then at the end of the episode, Ralph gets drafted. :-) The video on the show is all grainy, and I've often wondered if it's some kind of kinescope or something.
This ringin' a bell for anyone?
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[quote name=\'aaron sica\' post=\'127343\' date=\'Aug 14 2006, 10:55 AM\']
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'127340\' date=\'Aug 14 2006, 11:45 AM\']
Another odd thing that ABC did was they didn't run the episodes in chronological order. Most of the other daytime reruns on any of the networks were. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that when Happy Days went daytime, it only had two seasons under its belt.
[/quote]
Yup, sounds about right. Curt's page lists it as joining the ABC daytime lineup on 9/1/75, right before its third season. And it's been so long since daytime reruns were on, but I would imagine it was like syndicated reruns where the current season's eps wouldn't air in the rotation. I can't imagine for the first year or so that it took too terribly long to run through the entire series, much like when "Three's a Crowd" ran on the daytime schedule 10 years later.
[/quote]
I wouldn't believe anything that guy says. (Of course, Wikipedia says the same thing -- but they may be using me as the source. I'm using Wesley Hyatt and the Brooks-Marsh books.)
Actually, Happy Days didn't start airing on ABC until January 1974, so they only had a year and a half of episodes to work with. But The Brady Bunch was set to hit syndication that fall, so they had to sub in something -- and I think that was the only ABC sitcom that had been on for more than a year (I guess The Odd Couple hadn't been considered).
Three's a Crowd is kind of a weird one. The show was on the bubble for renewal for a second season, then ABC decided to pick up the NBC discard Diff'rent Strokes instead -- a major mistake. Ratings for the reruns during the summer went way up (college students ogling Mary Cadorette?), so ABC tossed it into daytime for four months (replacing reruns of the long-cancelled Angie?). They probably went through the entire run four times during that period.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'127584\' date=\'Aug 16 2006, 12:37 AM\']
Three's a Crowd is kind of a weird one. The show was on the bubble for renewal for a second season, then ABC decided to pick up the NBC discard Diff'rent Strokes instead -- a major mistake. Ratings for the reruns during the summer went way up (college students ogling Mary Cadorette?), so ABC tossed it into daytime for four months (replacing reruns of the long-cancelled Angie?). They probably went through the entire run four times during that period.
[/quote]
IIRC, picking up Diff'rent Strokes and canceling Three's a Crowd was a last-minute decision, wasn't it? Would have been curious to see what happened with 3AC in the storylines....I believe on the British version (I want to say Robin's Nest was its title) that they married and had a child..
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If the film is grainy, it's usually a 16mm print instead of 35mm. Although the networks *generally* showed 35mm prints, for syndication 16mm prints were made for the stations (they weren't generally distributed on VTR until the 80s). When they started transferring to video for distribution, they generally went to the 16mm masters because they were more readily available.
Although a lot of DVDs these days (and, of course, TV reairings) have gone back to the original 35mm master prints, 16mm prints may still be used if it is already edited for more commercials (like the "Love American Style" repackages) or if the 35mm is unavailable, in bad condition or--unfortunately--the distributor doesn't want to bother digging the 35mm prints out.
It's not that the word "kinescope" was used in connection with graininess, since kinescopes were shot on 16mm film.
-
Just to add to the grainy video story, I recall seeing that episode on TVLand a couple of times and wondering why the quality was so different from the others. Maybe the original master for that episode is unavailable. For that matter, maybe the original opening sequence for that show is too - Green Acres actually had two or three different opening sequences, but all you ever see is the same one for the reruns - but that's another for another thread on another forum.
Story is that The Brady Bunch DVDs feature a bunch of grainy scenes; reportedly the original masters were cut for the first syndie repeats and those scenes no longer exist in pristine condition.
What does this have to do with game shows....well, the cast of The Brady Bunch did a week of Win, Lose or Draw in the '80s...among other things.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'127639\' date=\'Aug 16 2006, 12:47 PM\']
Story is that The Brady Bunch DVDs feature a bunch of grainy scenes; reportedly the original masters were cut for the first syndie repeats and those scenes no longer exist in pristine condition.
What does this have to do with game shows....well, the cast of The Brady Bunch did a week of Win, Lose or Draw in the '80s...among other things.
[/quote]
Those grainy scenes also exist on the TVLand showing as well...Game shows or not, this place is just a treasure trove of information. Being a huge "Brady" fan, I always wondered the reason for the grainy scenes and now I know. Thanks!
ObGameShow again: Reruns of "The Brady Bunch" in ABC daytime were bookended by "Blankety Blanks".
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ObGameShow again: Reruns of "The Brady Bunch" in ABC daytime were bookended by "Blankety Blanks".
And let's not forget that a member of the Bradys appeared on a game show...Cindy was a contestant on the "Question the Kids" show in the fourth season!
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Just one thing you have to remember--VCRs were very expensive in the late 70s and early 80s, and there weren't even a million households owning them at the time. When first released (to NY & LA in 9/75, elsewhere in 1/76), these machines cost $2,295 unadjusted for inflation. A 1-hour tape cost around $20; in the late 70s 2- and 4-hour tapes were releaed which cost around $16-$23.
What's my point? Simple--it's very unlikely that someone stockpiled game shows from that era on a home recorder. They would have to have been rich, extremely irresponsible with their money, or extremely passionate! That said, nothing is impossible, just remember the context of the era you're referring to.
[quote name=\'Allstar87\' post=\'126686\' date=\'Aug 9 2006, 01:48 AM\']
[quote name=\'Seth Thrasher\' post=\'126668\' date=\'Aug 8 2006, 10:04 PM\']
In some fifty-something's closet somewhere out there in Podunk, NE, I would *not* be surprised if there's a huge stash of 20-25 year old VHS tapes of the late 70s/early 80s episodes. Of the couple hundred million people alive at the time, someone at least *could have* had the passion for the show to record them.
[/quote]
My thoughts exactly; it was that mindset that led me to find 8 Wheel episodes at my grandmother's house. (Don't get too excited though; the oldest was from 1991.) I'm sure these rarities are out there; it's just a matter of finding them.
[/quote]
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I remember Robert Mandan (who played yummy Mary Cadorette's dad on TAC) saying that ABC went back and forth on whether they were picked up for another season. Ultimately, the network offered John Ritter a 13-week commitment, and that was considered an insult for a show and a star that had been on the air for nine years.
I also remember that Three's A Crowd's ratings improved so much that it landed in the Top 10 for much of the summer of 1985, which was quite a feat given that Three's Company had fallen out of the Top 25 for much of its last year (which comes out on DVD October 3).
Three's a Crowd is kind of a weird one. The show was on the bubble for renewal for a second season, then ABC decided to pick up the NBC discard Diff'rent Strokes instead -- a major mistake. Ratings for the reruns during the summer went way up (college students ogling Mary Cadorette?), so ABC tossed it into daytime for four months (replacing reruns of the long-cancelled Angie?). They probably went through the entire run four times during that period.
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[quote name=\'TheFlea\' post=\'128630\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 10:44 AM\']What's my point? Simple--it's very unlikely that someone stockpiled game shows from that era on a home recorder. They would have to have been rich, extremely irresponsible with their money, or extremely passionate! [/quote]
That pretty much describes Andy Warhol -- whose personal recordings of daytime television in the seventies are in fact exactly what we're talking about! Still, I agree with the Flea, it's extremely unlikely that there's an undiscovered trove of such recordings.
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[quote name=\'bclark71\' post=\'128655\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 09:50 AM\']
given that Three's Company had fallen out of the Top 25 for much of its last year (which comes out on DVD October 3).
[/quote]
I'm just mildly curious about something here, since I was having a discussion with a friend on this subject yesterday:
Why do you know this release date?
-
...beacuse I'm...um...OKAY! OKAY! I'M COLLECTING THEM!!! <pant pant pant>
But I can stop anytime I want to. Dammit.
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'128666\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 01:33 PM\']
[quote name=\'bclark71\' post=\'128655\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 09:50 AM\']
given that Three's Company had fallen out of the Top 25 for much of its last year (which comes out on DVD October 3).
[/quote]
I'm just mildly curious about something here, since I was having a discussion with a friend on this subject yesterday:
Why do you know this release date?
[/quote]
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[quote name=\'bclark71\' post=\'128673\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 11:00 AM\']
...beacuse I'm...um...OKAY! OKAY! I'M COLLECTING THEM!!! <pant pant pant>
[/quote]
Wow. You're the one. It just struck me as coincidental, because the exact conversation we were having was "who in the blue hell would be so wrong in the head as to want to buy Three's Friggin' Company on DVD?"
And now I know. Okay. That's why I asked. Thanks.
BTW, DeepDiscountDVD.com is currently having a buy-one-boxed-set-get-one-free sale, in case you need to fill any holes. Here's the link:
http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com/promotion/b...ame=abb2g1_0806 (http://\"http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com/promotion/buyAndGetFree_form.cfm?promoName=abb2g1_0806\")
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Haha, yes, Andy Warhol's recordings preserved, among other things, a couple 1975 episodes of High Rollers! Too bad they can only be viewed at the NY Museum of TV & Radio :(
As far as any Betamax treasure troves go, our best bet is to find the odd episode here and there, as has been the case for years. A lot of the home recordings from that era come from people who were contestants on the who and taped their appearances. For example a 1976 $20K Pyramid and 2 1978 WoFs fall into that category.
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'128657\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 01:02 PM\']
[quote name=\'TheFlea\' post=\'128630\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 10:44 AM\']What's my point? Simple--it's very unlikely that someone stockpiled game shows from that era on a home recorder. They would have to have been rich, extremely irresponsible with their money, or extremely passionate! [/quote]
That pretty much describes Andy Warhol -- whose personal recordings of daytime television in the seventies are in fact exactly what we're talking about! Still, I agree with the Flea, it's extremely unlikely that there's an undiscovered trove of such recordings.
[/quote]
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LOL, yeah, that's me!
I still think Three's Company is funny (especially the one about the misunderstanding), but then I think 30-year-old game shows are entertaining too. Shows what I know.
At least I can admit it. :)
Wow. You're the one. It just struck me as coincidental, because the exact conversation we were having was "who in the blue hell would be so wrong in the head as to want to buy Three's Friggin' Company on DVD?"
And now I know. Okay. That's why I asked. Thanks.
BTW, DeepDiscountDVD.com is currently having a buy-one-boxed-set-get-one-free sale, in case you need to fill any holes. Here's the link:
http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com/promotion/b...ame=abb2g1_0806 (http://\"http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com/promotion/buyAndGetFree_form.cfm?promoName=abb2g1_0806\")
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[quote name=\'bclark71\' post=\'128679\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 11:47 AM\']
I still think Three's Company is funny (especially the one about the misunderstanding)
[/quote]
Okay, you clearly have a sense of humor about it. Carry on, then. :)
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Okay, you clearly have a sense of humor about it. Carry on, then. :)
Let me add this to the mix and really boggle your mind: I'm a Styx fan. Styx. So clearly I can take it. :)
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[quote name=\'bclark71\' post=\'128682\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 11:56 AM\']
Let me add this to the mix and really boggle your mind: I'm a Styx fan. Styx. So clearly I can take it. :)
[/quote]
Then I follow up my "carry on" with a "domo arigato". :)
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'128689\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 02:50 PM\']
[quote name=\'bclark71\' post=\'128682\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 11:56 AM\']
Let me add this to the mix and really boggle your mind: I'm a Styx fan. Styx. So clearly I can take it. :)
[/quote]
Then I follow up my "carry on" with a "domo arigato". :)
[/quote]
And come sail away.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'128695\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 03:07 PM\']
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'128689\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 02:50 PM\']
[quote name=\'bclark71\' post=\'128682\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 11:56 AM\']
Let me add this to the mix and really boggle your mind: I'm a Styx fan. Styx. So clearly I can take it. :)
[/quote]
Then I follow up my "carry on" with a "domo arigato". :)
[/quote]
And come sail away.
[/quote]
Too much time on your hands?
/OK, not quite the title, but close enough to make the (bad) joke.
Doug -- and the countdown to 2200 continues (broadcasting remotely from NY)
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'128697\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 04:15 PM\']
[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'128695\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 03:07 PM\']
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'128689\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 02:50 PM\']
[quote name=\'bclark71\' post=\'128682\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 11:56 AM\']
Let me add this to the mix and really boggle your mind: I'm a Styx fan. Styx. So clearly I can take it. :)
[/quote]Then I follow up my "carry on" with a "domo arigato". :)[/quote]And come sail away.
[/quote]Too much time on your hands?[/quote]
The headlines read these are the worst of times.
/I know, that's a lyric, not a title per se
//but still, I do believe it's true
///and for those who who don't know why single men collect Three's Company on DVD, let me offer two words:
////Joyce DeWitt
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[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' post=\'128706\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 01:35 PM\']
///and for those who who don't know why single men collect Three's Company on DVD, let me offer two words:
////Joyce DeWitt
[/quote]
Yeah, but you have to buy an entire boxed set for that?
/wants to find a PPV service that lets you rent pr0n five minutes at a time
//okay, three minutes
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'128680\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 02:50 PM\']
[quote name=\'bclark71\' post=\'128679\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 11:47 AM\']
I still think Three's Company is funny (especially the one about the misunderstanding)
[/quote]
Okay, you clearly have a sense of humor about it. Carry on, then. :)
[/quote]
I remember Joyce DeWitt pointing out in an interview that "the one about the misunderstanding" could also describe most of Shakespeare's comedies. Yes, best as I could tell, she was comparing Three's Company to Shakespeare with a straight face.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'128709\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 04:46 PM\']
[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' post=\'128706\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 01:35 PM\']
///and for those who who don't know why single men collect Three's Company on DVD, let me offer two words:
////Joyce DeWitt
[/quote]
Yeah, but you have to buy an entire boxed set for that?
[/quote]
It still amazes me the number of great camera angles at which Joyce DeWitt's rear end was shot. Well worth $19.99 a pop. (Take that as you wish.)
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[quote name=\'bclark71\' post=\'128679\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 01:47 PM\']
I still think Three's Company is funny (especially the one about the misunderstanding)
[/quote]
Personally, I like the one where Jack falls down.
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[quote name=\'TheFlea\' post=\'128677\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 11:34 AM\']
Haha, yes, Andy Warhol's recordings preserved, among other things, a couple 1975 episodes of High Rollers! Too bad they can only be viewed at the NY Museum of TV & Radio :([/quote]
They can also be viewed at the Museum of TV & Radio location in beautiful downtown Beverly Hills, should one ever find oneself on the Left Coast.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'128729\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 05:16 PM\']
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'128680\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 02:50 PM\']
[quote name=\'bclark71\' post=\'128679\' date=\'Aug 23 2006, 11:47 AM\']
I still think Three's Company is funny (especially the one about the misunderstanding)
[/quote]
Okay, you clearly have a sense of humor about it. Carry on, then. :)
[/quote]
I remember Joyce DeWitt pointing out in an interview that "the one about the misunderstanding" could also describe most of Shakespeare's comedies. Yes, best as I could tell, she was comparing Three's Company to Shakespeare with a straight face.
[/quote]
Not to defend that particular show, but I've heard it said that if Shakespeare were alive in our time, he'd be writing sitcoms. He wrote what was popular in his time.
ObGS: Shakespeare is a recurring category on J!
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'126574\' date=\'Aug 7 2006, 08:56 PM\']
The official word, as per a representative of King World, is this: Woolery's version and some of Sajak's early years are gone for the same reason as ABC Password. It was the company policy to use and reuse the tapes, a practice which continued until the 80s.
Simply put, the masters ARE gone because they taped over 'em.
Wow...to me that's a bit of a shock that anything from the early '80s is gone, especially with all the talk we heard about 1978 over the years. I guess you just never know what still might exist and what doesn't.
[/quote]
Ian was told in a letter he received from GSN, after writing in and asking what shows existed or not, that NBC stopped recycling videotape in 1978. Therefore, he was informed that shows such as Battlestars and the last 2 years of the Marshall daytime Hollywood Squares were still in existance. This conflicts with the information you got from the King World rep., so it looks like we never can be certain about what is still around!
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Ian was told in a letter he received from GSN, after writing in and asking what shows existed or not, that NBC stopped recycling videotape in 1978. Therefore, he was informed that shows such as Battlestars and the last 2 years of the Marshall daytime Hollywood Squares were still in existance. This conflicts with the information you got from the King World rep., so it looks like we never can be certain about what is still around!
Not quite true. I wasn't told in exact words that NBC stopped recycling in 1978 - that info was taken from several other places and was widely thought to be accurate on ATGS at the time of my writing; and I'm quite sure I heard Peter Marshall on a daytime talk show in the late '80s or early '90s say "...they're all gone, all but the last couple of years".
Shows like Battlestars were not talked about in the letter because GSN wasn't actively pursuing that library at the time; it was believed to still exist because it occured after the supposed tape erasure in 1978. I did find out the status of several other shows - info which I've posted in the past - but some of that info would be different now with some of the stuff we now know still exists.
Still, with what's been found in the past couple of years, and the news that Chuck's Wheel was pretty well wiped out (which I now happen to believe), you can never tell for sure what still exists and what doesn't because new things are being discovered all the time.
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In relation to this when WKYC-TV 3 in Cleveland had it's 50th anniversary special in 1998, There were some clips from the station's Westinghouse years..but not a lot from late 1965 when NBC took control of the station..Until 1978..There was ample clips beyond that date..
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Still, with what's been found in the past couple of years, and the news that Chuck's Wheel was pretty well wiped out (which I now happen to believe), you can never tell for sure what still exists and what doesn't because new things are being discovered all the time.
--As far as what exists and what doesn't, I tend to take the view that we should say something is "lost" rather that "destroyed" or "wiped out". Simply put, as Ian said, new things are discovered all the time, and we don't know what may exist in a vault somewhere. Just look at the 1972-74 episodes of TJW--for years, we assumed they were gone forever, but we were wrong. They ALL exist, and we were pleasantly surprised to discover this in 2000.
Additionally, just because the networks no longer have copies of these shows doesn't mean they might not exist somewhere else. For example, the 2/21/54 episode of What's My Line? is listed by G-T as "lost" and is not in GSN's archive. Yet, the show is available on the public domain and can be purchased from Shokus Video. The reason is because even though the master kinescope is gone, Lucille Ball, who was a guest panelist that week, had her own copy.
Unfortunately, a lot of lost shows may very well be gone forever. We should never stop searching though and never give up trying to preserve these classics for future generations of fans.
-Flea
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King World didn't get involved with WOF until 1983, so I'm not making the connection on how they would be an authority on something that happened in the '70s. When WOF was first floated for once-a-week prime access syndication circa 1977, it was under the auspices of 20th Century Fox television. I'm pretty sure they would not have a clue about this either. Why not ask Merv?
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For example, the 2/21/54 episode of What's My Line? is listed by G-T as "lost" and is not in GSN's archive. Yet, the show is available on the public domain and can be purchased from Shokus Video.
Along the same lines, sometimes episodes are "missing" even in libraries we know to exist. Cases in point: one of the first-week episodes of Tattletales from 1974 has never aired on GSN, so I think we can assume that it's missing from the Goodson archive. Same thing for the second episode of the '76 version of Break the Bank.
I find it kind of odd that episodes like that would "disappear" to somewhere, but I guess when ownerships and storage locations changed over the years, it's easy for things to get misplaced, especially when dealing with thousands of tapes.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'129438\' date=\'Aug 28 2006, 11:21 AM\']
For example, the 2/21/54 episode of What's My Line? is listed by G-T as "lost" and is not in GSN's archive. Yet, the show is available on the public domain and can be purchased from Shokus Video.
Along the same lines, sometimes episodes are "missing" even in libraries we know to exist. Cases in point: one of the first-week episodes of Tattletales from 1974 has never aired on GSN, so I think we can assume that it's missing from the Goodson archive. Same thing for the second episode of the '76 version of Break the Bank.
I find it kind of odd that episodes like that would "disappear" to somewhere, but I guess when ownerships and storage locations changed over the years, it's easy for things to get misplaced, especially when dealing with thousands of tapes.
[/quote]
On top of that, from what I read in that testimony about the G-T conversion project, some of the tapes were never properly stored--I believe I read that in some cases the tapes had been lying on loading docks and other open areas for years and years, encased but still not properly stored for optimal preservation.